Benfica v Chelsea - EL Final - k/o 7:45pm - ITV/3e

Nuri Sahin

hobbit of the shire wrote: »

Literally no Chelsea fan wanted Benitez to fail? That's ridiculous. Also for every blindly anti-Benitez 'fan' there are people who are in such love with him everything is still seen through ridiculously tinted glasses.

Be realistic, he hasn't worked wonders, he hasn't shown any magnificent ability but he has done the job he was brought in to do. He's secured Champions League football, just, and won a trophy. The outcome is Chelsea fans can be grateful for a solid platform for next year and another trophy, and Benitez can be grateful that he's been put in the shop window and people can remember he can win trophies.

I do have sympathy for having to deal with the booing but it's to be expected, hiring someone who had been previously anti-chelsea and had a strong rivalry against us was not going to be received well. The signs were embarrassing.

Defensively is where he deserves zero credit imo, we've been a shambles at the back and very unorganised (something that I actually expected Benitez to be better at), going forward however we have played decent football.

Overall credit where it's due, he's done a good job, but he hasn't done anything special or out of the ordinary. Chelsea fans are grateful for his time with us and I'm sure he is too.

There are a few who are blindly biased towards Rafa, sure, but I am not that at all. I have a bit of an issue with the Rafa fanboi's in the Liverpool thread sure :pac:

It is all a bit tiring hearing people spew out the same inane garbage that the tabloids do about him though and so, will continue to deride anything Rafa does in the future as they cannot seperate their club bias/previous sentiment for him, I've come pretty much except that. Again, it's just all a bit tiring.

I'm very big on circumstances and circumstances were not in his favour whatsoever when he came in during November(?) but yet he steadied the ship and provided a foundation for next season as you said, all while keeping the rate for winning trophies ticking over.

I just found someone's posts here in the past quite comically cringe worthy and felt the need to bring it up as Rafa in the end proved his time at Chelsea was not a failure.

Gav's rating above for Rafa's time at Chelsea is spot on IMO. A 7 out of 10 is a fair rating. Maybe 8 if pushed

missingtime

At the end of the day Chelsea will play roughly 70 games this season, thats a record I think.

Would ye have played that many games under RDM? Probably not, thus giving RDM perhaps more time to concentrate on the league, where he might have done better.

GavRedKing

missingtime wrote: »

At the end of the day Chelsea will play roughly 70 games this season, thats a record I think.

Would ye have played that many games under RDM? Probably not, thus giving RDM perhaps more time to concentrate on the league, where he might have done better.

RDM pi**ed away the league last year, we were on a slippery sloap and all the eggs were in the UCL basket, it was s**t or bust in the UCL and we got lucky, very lucky.

Had RDM lost the final and won the FA cup and came 6th, he would have been out on his ear before he came back from Munich, which is when he eventually got the job a few weeks after the final, sacking him so soon into it was stupid from Roman and the board it lacked class and dignity, something which the club and some of the players have lacked in recent times and doesnt help the outside PR image at all when a guy won a double gets the sack after 4 months.

Duck Soup

At the start of the season, given the players each side had, I would have expected Man City to have walked away with it, with Chelsea and Man U fighting it out for second. It would have been no great surprise to have finished in third and that looks likely (though not a given).

Benitez. He did a decent job is how I'd characterize it. He never seemed to do his homework on the smaller sides - losses to QPR and West Brom, leads thrown away to Southampton and Reading - and he allowed the team to sleepwalk through the middle of the season.

Maybe it was just time that was needed - Chelsea isn't a club for allowing much - but by the end of season, the team were playing for each other and seemed more like a cohesive unit. I would point out however that even in the Europa final, they were outplayed comprehensively. I can't imagine a team under Carlo or José letting the opposition dictate a match like that.

So third in the league is what I would expected. Rafa, like RDM before him, seemed to put all his eggs in a cup competition basket and but for Ramires running down a long ball and securing the corner in the 93rd minute, who knows what might have been the result in that final.

For all the tactical nous of the likes of SAF and José, it's the ability and willingness of their teams to chase and press that gives them an edge. City, like Chelsea, this season have too often expected teams to lie down and have their tummies tickled.

What Rafa has done is shown a lot of composure and dignity. He knew what he wanted to achieve and even when it wasn't going to plan, he ignored the fans, the speculation in the press and TV interviews and just slowly got the team round to how he wanted them to play.

He's been right in slowly withdrawing the likes of JT into squad rotation (he's now highly prone to injury and a yard short of pace at times) and Torres is playing his best stuff ever in a blue shirt. Lamps could have been played more, but perhaps he too needed games off to be at his best when he did play.

There's a lot of stuff that never got sorted out definitively, but within part of a season perhaps that's too much to ask. The passing/possession game - RA's holy grail - is as far away as ever. Did we ever get above 55% against decent teams? The three amigos seem to only work as two amigos plus one on the bench. The loan system needs radical overhauling - it's ridiculous not having cover when we have some outstanding prospects playing for other teams. But that's not Rafa's fault.

Overhaul, I think we should say thank you and farewell. He did a good job, but I can't ever see him as the man to (a) get us challenging in the league or (b) creating that long-term culture of passing and possession. He's a tactician, not a purist.

willmunny1990

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Yourself and the_monkey fella have been a embarrassment since Rafa came in. I'd say longer but I rather keep it on topic. Thankfully there are a few level headed Chelsea supporters who aren't of the hyperbole, sensationalist, gutter media fed crap type.

It's a testament to Rafa that in spite of the face of adversity from the likes of the moronic supporters that booed him for the majority of his Chelsea tenure that he stuck it out. I don't expect you to admit it, but I have little doubt that to a large extent if not entirely you wished he failed. By that, I mean totally flopped at that.

It was always going to take Rafa some time to get some of his ideas around to the players, nobody was going to swoop in and make everything rosy right from the off. Champions League failure really came before he took over BUT if he was there from the beginning, Chelsea certainly would have got out of the group instead of putting up a shambles of a defence of the trophy that was under Di Matteo. The first defending champions in the history of the tournament to go out in the group stages ffs!

Think Rafa's 1 CL game this season was against Nordsjaelland away or perhaps it was home, I can't remember where you put half a dozen past them. Not using it as something big up Rafa here. Just stating a fact

Chelsea were unlucky in the FA Cup. They had the momentum towards the end of the game and had it not been for the ref waving away a red card for Aguero, there was a fair chance that crucial goal would have come.

In regards to the league, Di Matteo wouldn't have had you much if at all better off than you are now. Chelsea weren't consistent but a full pre-season under his belt to get his methods fully across, I'm sure Rafa would have Chelsea contending at the very least. He probably did prioritise the Europa League at times over the sake of the league too, partly for his CV sake and partly because it was the biggest trophy Chelsea could win.

League Cup was poor from what I remember in the performances against Swansea but sure, can't win everything. Likewise the Club World Cup perhaps, though I'm in no real position to comment as I barely saw more than a few minutes being played.

Defensively he deserves a heap of credit too. Luiz in particular seems to have finally copped onto what positioning is and looks like he could well fulfill the potential shown at Benfica, albeit at CDM though from what I saw the odd time he did play in defence.

Also, despite the massive amount of games Chelsea played this season, his much maligned rotation policy worked a treat when fatigue could have really have settled in. Funny he gets no stick now for it. Does help he has a squad with a lot of quality all over which Liverpool even at their peak was perhaps a shade off from having.

However, I'm sure you're convinced otherwise knowing what you're like. Keep underplaying anything Rafa achieves like a lot of clueless people do.

Look, your not really in a position to judge the situation with Rafa correctly IMO, your gushing and fawning over him is quite embarrassing and it's hindering your ability to judge him and his achievements at Chelsea correctly.

How do you know Di Matteo wouldn't have had us in a better position? Do you have a crystal ball or something? We were challenging for the title when he was sacked and we're now 16 points off United and IMO that's not an acceptable position for Chelsea to be in.

The players deserve as much credit as Rafa, the man worked no miracles during his time with Chelsea, getting us a second rate European cup and a CL spot by the skin of our teeth is not a big achievement for a big club like Chelsea so excuse me for not jumping on the Rafa bandwagon that's going around at the moment. Maybe you might look at that trophy differently given the lower expectations/lesser ability to win things at the club you support.

I see you also conveniently leave out the fact he didn't win the World Club Championship for which we were heavy favorites, which in my mind cancels out the Europa League win.

And by the way, I never wanted Rafa to fail and was staunchly against the idiots booing him and holding up banners at games.

ahnowbrowncow

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Look, your not really in a position to judge the situation with Rafa correctly IMO, your gushing and fawning over him is quite embarrassing and it's hindering your ability to judge him and his achievements at Chelsea correctly.

How do you know Di Matteo wouldn't have had us in a better position? Do you have a crystal ball or something? We were challenging for the title when he was sacked and we're now 16 points off United and IMO that's not an acceptable position for Chelsea to be in.

The players deserve as much credit as Rafa, the man worked no miracles during his time with Chelsea, getting us a second rate European cup and a CL spot by the skin of our teeth is not a big achievement for a big club like Chelsea so excuse me for not jumping on the Rafa bandwagon that's going around at the moment. Maybe you might look at that trophy differently given the lower expectations/lesser ability to win things at the club you support.

I see you also conveniently leave out the fact he didn't win the World Club Championship for which we were heavy favorites, which in my mind cancels out the Europa League win.

And by the way, I never wanted Rafa to fail and was staunchly against the idiots booing him and holding up banners at games.

The world club championship is a nothing trophy, I'd far prefer to win the Europa League.

Rafa knew this and he selected a poor team for the world club championship final so the players would be fresh for the Europa league final.

He's a genius if you ask me

GavRedKing

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

The world club championship is a nothing trophy, I'd far prefer to win the Europa League.

Rafa knew this and he selected a poor team for the world club championship final so the players would be fresh for the Europa league final.

He's a genius if you ask me

Despite their being about 5 months difference between one final to the next?

ahnowbrowncow

GavRedKing wrote: »

Despite their being about 5 months difference between one final to the next?

I was joking, not very well though apparently

GavRedKing

Straight over my head.

Nuri Sahin

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Look, your not really in a position to judge the situation with Rafa correctly IMO, your gushing and fawning over him is quite embarrassing and it's hindering your ability to judge him and his achievements at Chelsea correctly.

How do you know Di Matteo wouldn't have had us in a better position? Do you have a crystal ball or something? We were challenging for the title when he was sacked and we're now 16 points off United and IMO that's not an acceptable position for Chelsea to be in.

The players deserve as much credit as Rafa, the man worked no miracles during his time with Chelsea, getting us a second rate European cup and a CL spot by the skin of our teeth is not a big achievement for a big club like Chelsea so excuse me for not jumping on the Rafa bandwagon that's going around at the moment. Maybe you might look at that trophy differently given the lower expectations/lesser ability to win things at the club you support.

I see you also conveniently leave out the fact he didn't win the World Club Championship for which we were heavy favorites, which in my mind cancels out the Europa League win.

And by the way, I never wanted Rafa to fail and was staunchly against the idiots booing him and holding up banners at games.

Coming from yourself, this is water off my back given your posts in general but especially anything Liverpool FC related. As I said earlier, I'm well able to separate my personal sentiment/feelings from the crux of the matter. You're incapable of doing similar, and given your obsessive hatred of all things Liverpool related including Rafa, it's hardly surprising.

While appreciative of all the many awesome nights in Europe, the FA Cup win, the 08/09 season and whatever else, I'm not blinkered by Rafa's time with Liverpool whatsoever. There are some that are that way, but I'm not. In fact, I wanted Chelsea to lose last night truth be told and there are posters here who can verify me saying this elsewhere last night. But come full time I was chuffed for Rafa as to a lesser extent some of the players who I do appreciate like Ivanovic and Mata to name a couple.

I've never denied the players any credit here lol. This discussion is on Rafa and solely Rafa. If you're trying to make out like I wouldn't give players any credit, then it says a whole lot about you more than me not mentioning them at present.

As for conveniently leave out the fact he didn't win the World Club Championship. Err, no I didn't. I said I didn't watch more than a few minutes and that was the semi final, so I have no real comment to make on the final. I comment on things I know about and actually see, not blindly follow my hatred and make blow stuff up out of all proportion. But since you want me to comment.. oh no, he didn't win the World Club Championship. What a noob! It's all his fault. He had only just been in the door before heading across the other side of the world with players he was working with for the first time apart from Torres and Yossi. Is that enough time to set his methods onto the team? No. Do the South American teams, mostly the Brazilian teams take this competition very seriously? Yes. Do they arrive early to get accustomed to the time difference and temperature? Yes. Do they generally have a good record in this Cup? Yes. Celtic, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest and Chelsea have all failed to win the World Club Championship. Going by a few match reports it seems Cassio had a stormer of a game saving from Moses and Hazard and Torres missed a sitter. Seemed a lot of the players tired as the game went on and Cortinhians as a whole defended well. But yeah, let's blame it on Rafa... Oh and I couldn't care if Chelsea were huge favourites. Every year for as long as I remember the European team is overwhelming favourites.

As for the crystal ball reference, considering some of the stuff you've spouted in the past, making bold claims here and there and falling flat on your arse, I should be asking where's your crystal ball and to see if you could get a refund on it.

The_Kew_Tour

No Rafa fan but you have to give credit where it is due too.

He is a good manager and Chelaea should be lucky to have such.

cournioni

Mr Alan wrote: »

Were you cringing at Rooney last weekend out of curiousity?
He refused to play & then got into full kit mode for the presentation. At least Terry was ruled out with injury to be fair to him.

I did, and to be honest I wouldn't feel involved if I wasn't playing in the match. Same goes for David May back in the day, I'd much prefer a Keane and Scholes type celebration. Rooney didn't refuse to play by the way, so a few facts would be nice, that said I'd like him to leave the club.

Besides, you're bringing up something that has been discussed pages and pages ago.