We're the noisy neighbours.

dango

I'd just like to get opinions on this. I'm currently a tenant in a first floor apartment. My neighbour downstairs is complaining about the noise. This noise is coming from my brother who is a night owl (walking around the apartment/coughing/going to the toilet from 1-4am) and from what I can gather his room is above hers. We have never had a party and we don't crank up the tv/radio at any time of the day. The floors are wooden and like lots of apartments there isn't much of an attempt to soundproof (Sometimes I can hear her sing in the afternoon).
I understand there is noise and feel bad that her sleep is disrupted but the way she has acted (screaming down the phone about noise, hanging up on me when I was trying to talk to her about it and calling me a b*stard) doesn't endear me to her. She regularly bangs on the roof and rings the home phone in the middle of the night. At this stage I don't answer the phone. I know it isn't the most mature approach but she isn't interested in coming to an agreement but just to give out.
Before I wondered if there was some way to come to an agreement (we had already agreed not to put the dishwasher/washing machine on between 11pm-8am) but her attitude is so bad at this stage I just want to make sure if what's currently going on is not against any laws/noise regulations.
She has threatened to go to the Landlord about it but from what I can tell she hasn't. In future, should I tell her to speak to the Landlord and keep my nose out of it or does she have a legitimate grievance with us?

frozenfrozen

You're allowed to make reasonable noise, going to the bathroom during the night is reasonable. Tell her to get some ear plugs or take some sleeping tablets. Is she living alone or elderly? She may just be looking for a chat

GarIT

It's your home, you can do what you want once you're not hosting regular parties you're not doing anything wrong.

If she calls again let her know you are going to call the Gardaí over harassment.

kennryyr

Brother is clearly tap dancing while sleep walking.

Very common

SkadooshJ

I wouldnt even entertain the woman anymore. It is entirely up to your brother what he does during the night, if he isnt throwning parties and blaring music then there is nothing she can do about it.

who the fug

Could you and your brother swop bedrooms , so the noise isn't directly over her bedroom.

Del2005

GarIT wrote: »

It's your home, you can do what you want once you're not hosting regular parties you're not doing anything wrong.

Not quite right. The OP is living in an apartment which has house rules, one of which is usually no wooden floors, so they can't do as they please.

In saying that their neighbour is being a awkward. OP do you wear shoes all the time in the apartment? Consider slippers or lounge socks so you aren't making noise when moving around. The rest she just has to get over.

GarIT

Del2005 wrote: »

Not quite right. The OP is living in an apartment which has house rules, one of which is usually no wooden floors, so they can't do as they please.

In saying that their neighbour is being a awkward. OP do you wear shoes all the time in the apartment? Consider slippers or lounge socks so you aren't making noise when moving around. The rest she just has to get over.

I don't see this mentioned anywhere. I would assume they didn't put the floor there either. The problem appears to be with the brother returning home at night which he has a right to do.

zenno

Imagine not being able to walk around or go to the toilet at any time of the night. If this person harasses you again make a complaint to the gardai and also let your landlord know of this.

jd83

The fact that she is not able to deal with the situation like an adult, id just ignore her until she can talk like a normal person. If she keeps ringing you in the middle of the night call the cops or get her number blocked thats not on.

http://business.eircom.net/mobile/policy/malicious/

I live in an apartment, im sure the people below me hear me moving around the apartment as I can hear the poeple above me. Its to be expected.

daRobot

Honestly, if she tried that method of "negotiation" with me, i'd be purposely heavy footed walking around.

Some apartments are badly built, and conduct sound. Them's the beans. Put up or shut up, basically.

She needs earplugs, or failing that, an estate agent.

professore

I used to live in an apartment where the 2 muppets upstairs used to come home at 2 AM and put on the Wolfe Tones or some other such rebel music full volume - and I mean walls vibrating volume.

We had a small baby at the time - so I went there at 7:30 AM and rang their doorbell for 10 minutes solid until one of them got up, I let him have it about the music and he claimed it "wasn't him or his flatmate" as his flatmate "had epilepsy" and couldn't tolerate loud noise --- WTF? some people come up with cock and bull stories !!!!

Anyway I told him if there was a repeat performance I would be down at 7:30 AM each time to return the favour .... that was the last time it happened.

OP, if you are telling the truth, I would have no issue with you.

dango

To answer some of the questions: she is elderly and not very mobile. Our relationship had been good a couple of months ago (asking if she wanted anything from the shops, checking in on her if there was snow/flood risk) but it seems to have soured quite badly.

Frankly I don't think I'll be switching rooms with any one. Whatever about being decent/understanding I'm not going to allow a neighbour dictate where I can and can't sleep. It's bad enough as it is.

Regarding floors, they were put in by the Landlord so that will be his issue. Regarding footwear, he only ever wears slippers, runners or is in socks so I don't think they would be particularly noisy.

Anyway I don't particularly feel like stomping around the place or trying to be vindictive. I'd just prefer to get on with it as while I understand there is some noise, I don't think it's outside of what could be expected.

Borderfox

Apartment living is going to produce some noise that can be heard, from what you say it doesnt sound too bad.

dango wrote: »

To answer some of the questions: she is elderly and not very mobile. Our relationship had been good a couple of months ago (asking if she wanted anything from the shops, checking in on her if there was snow/flood risk) but it seems to have soured quite badly.

Frankly I don't think I'll be switching rooms with any one. Whatever about being decent/understanding I'm not going to allow a neighbour dictate where I can and can't sleep. It's bad enough as it is.

Regarding floors, they were put in by the Landlord so that will be his issue. Regarding footwear, he only ever wears slippers, runners or is in socks so I don't think they would be particularly noisy.

Anyway I don't particularly feel like stomping around the place or trying to be vindictive. I'd just prefer to get on with it as while I understand there is some noise, I don't think it's outside of what could be expected.

Del2005

GarIT wrote: »

I don't see this mentioned anywhere. I would assume they didn't put the floor there either.

You didn't see what mentioned anywhere? It doesn't matter who put the floors down if they aren't allowed by house rules.

dango wrote: »

To answer some of the questions: she is elderly and not very mobile. Our relationship had been good a couple of months ago (asking if she wanted anything from the shops, checking in on her if there was snow/flood risk) but it seems to have soured quite badly.

Frankly I don't think I'll be switching rooms with any one. Whatever about being decent/understanding I'm not going to allow a neighbour dictate where I can and can't sleep. It's bad enough as it is.

Regarding floors, they were put in by the Landlord so that will be his issue. Regarding footwear, he only ever wears slippers, runners or is in socks so I don't think they would be particularly noisy.

Anyway I don't particularly feel like stomping around the place or trying to be vindictive. I'd just prefer to get on with it as while I understand there is some noise, I don't think it's outside of what could be expected.

It looks like you've done all possible to reduce the noise, bar getting your LL to lift the wooden floors which isn't going to happen. Tell her that next time she screams at you, even down the phone, or calls you names or bangs on the ceiling you'll report her for noise and making nuisance calls.

Start keeping a log of her calls/bangs ceiling in case she tries to make trouble for you with your LL

Chris_5339762

To play devils advocate... if this thread was by the old lady complaining about someone up and coughing and stomping about at night we'd all side with her

StillWaters

Living below an apartment with wooden floors can be a nightmare. do you have rugs / mats to cushion the sound?

pburns

Hold on...pretty much all modern apartments have wooden flooring rather than carpets. Question is - is the floor construction suspended timber OR wooden flooring over concrete. If it is the latter - and if it is installed correctly there shouldn't be noise, certainly not with slippers, definitely not enough to disturb.

So either she's ultra-sensitive or the construction is sub-par. Sounds like it might be the perfect storm - BOTH! I have sympathy for both the OP and old lady. The quality of life of everyone involved is being effected.

GarIT

Del2005 wrote: »

You didn't see what mentioned anywhere? It doesn't matter who put the floors down if they aren't allowed by house rules.

'House rules' or wooden floors not being allowed.

athtrasna

Wooden floors are seldom permitted in apartments above ground level. However that is between the management company and your landlord.

Similarly if a neighbour has an issue, it should be raised with the management agent (either directly or through her landlord if she's a tenant) who will then deal with it via your landlord. Inter-unit issues in a managed development should be dealt with by the management agent and owners.

dango

No carpets or rugs have been put down. This is something that could be looked into alright.
I completely agree with the devil's advocate position, I think that's the reason I posted. I wanted to get perspectives even if i didn't like what I heard!
I think pburns really hit the nail on the head, I think it is an unfortunate combination of both. Considering sometimes you can hear something dropped on her floor below suggests that the build leaves a lot to be desired. And while it annoys me, I do understand where she is coming from.

the_syco

dango wrote: »

To answer some of the questions: she is elderly and not very mobile. Our relationship had been good a couple of months ago (asking if she wanted anything from the shops, checking in on her if there was snow/flood risk) but it seems to have soured quite badly.

If it has been okay until recently, I'm going to call bullsh|t on her problems. Sounds like she has taken it into her head to moan about you.

Record any nuisance calls she makes, and perhaps either get an answering phone to record her prank phone calls to show the police, or get her number blocked from your phone (3rd party hardware may be needed for this) so you no longer have to care.

Merch

GarIT wrote: »

It's your home, you can do what you want once you're not hosting regular parties you're not doing anything wrong.

If she calls again let her know you are going to call the Gardaí over harassment.

No, you cant actually

dango wrote: »

To answer some of the questions: she is elderly and not very mobile. Our relationship had been good a couple of months ago (asking if she wanted anything from the shops, checking in on her if there was snow/flood risk) but it seems to have soured quite badly.

Frankly I don't think I'll be switching rooms with any one. Whatever about being decent/understanding I'm not going to allow a neighbour dictate where I can and can't sleep. It's bad enough as it is.

Regarding floors, they were put in by the Landlord so that will be his issue. Regarding footwear, he only ever wears slippers, runners or is in socks so I don't think they would be particularly noisy.

Anyway I don't particularly feel like stomping around the place or trying to be vindictive. I'd just prefer to get on with it as while I understand there is some noise, I don't think it's outside of what could be expected.

I read somewhere recently the Govt wants to encourage (tax people into it) elderly people into apartments to free up rooms. HAve a bit of consideration for the woman. The thing is you openly admit that your flatmate is up at 1-4am plodding around the place, thats not acceptable and the fact you wont even consider swapping rooms with him to ease the situation doesnt seem like you are trying to help the situation as you feel you are being dictated to where you can sleep.

You dont seem to realise that a dishwasher/washing machine along with your flatmate going for strolls in his room at 1-4am suggest he is awake and has not considered what the noise is like for that woman in the apartment below, I think she is entitled to her sleep and as it has continued or it seems she has felt it has continued then it must seem to her that you dont give a stuff.

It sounds like she has a legitimate grievance in my opinion, once someone is affected by noise its very subjective, just because you dont notice it or it doesnt seem much to you doesnt mean it is the case for her, maybe its to do with being elderly/her hearing, maybe its to do with her being a light sleeper, the flooring might not be your problem but it shouldnt be hers for sure.
If it comes to a dispute re the PRTB or The COuncil or maybe the Dept of Environment who I think do noise assessment, then I'd think you will be the one looking for an estate agent based on what you have said, you could easily swap rooms to mitigate/eliminate this problem but refuse, seems stubborn to me.

Borderfox wrote: »

Apartment living is going to produce some noise that can be heard, from what you say it doesnt sound too bad.

We havent heard the old ladies side of the story, from what the OP has said, she seems to think its bad.


Personally, Id prefer my neighbours had a major party now and again, instead of unending noise of a lower volume but that is constantly noticeable ESPECIALLY when I was trying to sleep. Op you sound like you didnt have a clue and therefore never considered running the washing machine from 11-8 was not a good idea, what else might you not be considering, Id do as much as reasonably possible to limit the noise particularily at night, you seem reasonable enough, but Id suggest another person to mediate this so everyone has a witness and everyone can have their point heard.

Borderfox

tbh somebody elderly moving into an apartment would be in for a shock coming from living in a house, so much more noise in an apartment and coming from above/below/side. Ringing the op in the middle of the night shouting and screaming is going to end badly

dartup

carpet down in your brothers room

FanadMan

Merch wrote: »

Op you sound like you didnt have a clue and therefore never considered running the washing machine from 11-8 was not a good idea

Think the OP said that they agreed not to use the washing machine/dishwasher between 11 and 8.....

dango wrote: »

Before I wondered if there was some way to come to an agreement (we had already agreed not to put the dishwasher/washing machine on between 11pm-8am)

As for walking around in the middle of the night - maybe the OPs brother suffers from insomnia. I do - look at the time stamp on this and a lot of my posts I'm up and about nearly the whole night and only sleep about 2 hours max. Luckily, I live in a detached house miles from everywhere so don't have to worry about neighbours complaining lol

zenno

Merch wrote: »

No, you cant actually



I read somewhere recently the Govt wants to encourage (tax people into it) elderly people into apartments to free up rooms. HAve a bit of consideration for the woman. The thing is you openly admit that your flatmate is up at 1-4am plodding around the place, thats not acceptable and the fact you wont even consider swapping rooms with him to ease the situation doesnt seem like you are trying to help the situation as you feel you are being dictated to where you can sleep.

You dont seem to realise that a dishwasher/washing machine along with your flatmate going for strolls in his room at 1-4am suggest he is awake and has not considered what the noise is like for that woman in the apartment below, I think she is entitled to her sleep and as it has continued or it seems she has felt it has continued then it must seem to her that you dont give a stuff.

It sounds like she has a legitimate grievance in my opinion, once someone is affected by noise its very subjective, just because you dont notice it or it doesnt seem much to you doesnt mean it is the case for her, maybe its to do with being elderly/her hearing, maybe its to do with her being a light sleeper, the flooring might not be your problem but it shouldnt be hers for sure.
If it comes to a dispute re the PRTB or The COuncil or maybe the Dept of Environment who I think do noise assessment, then I'd think you will be the one looking for an estate agent based on what you have said, you could easily swap rooms to mitigate/eliminate this problem but refuse, seems stubborn to me.



We havent heard the old ladies side of the story, from what the OP has said, she seems to think its bad.


Personally, Id prefer my neighbours had a major party now and again, instead of unending noise of a lower volume but that is constantly noticeable ESPECIALLY when I was trying to sleep. Op you sound like you didnt have a clue and therefore never considered running the washing machine from 11-8 was not a good idea, what else might you not be considering, Id do as much as reasonably possible to limit the noise particularily at night, you seem reasonable enough, but Id suggest another person to mediate this so everyone has a witness and everyone can have their point heard.

Are you for real ?

The man pay's his rent and is entitled to walk the full breadth of his dwelling if he and his brother so chooses. What's the matter with people these day's ? loony tunes it's gone to.

Ok...it's 2am and i'm bursting to go to the toilet...wait...i better not or i'll upset the lady below with my walking across the floor. ffs.

foggy_lad

zenno wrote: »

Are you for real ?

The man pay's his rent and is entitled to walk the full breadth of his dwelling if he and his brother so chooses. What's the matter with people these day's ? loony tunes it's gone to.

Ok...it's 2am and i'm bursting to go to the toilet...wait...i better not or i'll upset the lady below with my walking across the floor. ffs.

I always keep a pisspot under the bed for just such occasions.

pwurple

Would a simple rug help?

Gokei

dango wrote: »

 I understand there is some noise, I don't think it's outside of what could be expected.

try going down to her flat and having a listen to your brother walking around.
it might be unreasonably loud, and her gripe should shift from ye to the landlord

GarIT

Merch wrote: »

No, you cant actually



I read somewhere recently the Govt wants to encourage (tax people into it) elderly people into apartments to free up rooms. HAve a bit of consideration for the woman. The thing is you openly admit that your flatmate is up at 1-4am plodding around the place, thats not acceptable and the fact you wont even consider swapping rooms with him to ease the situation doesnt seem like you are trying to help the situation as you feel you are being dictated to where you can sleep.

You dont seem to realise that a dishwasher/washing machine along with your flatmate going for strolls in his room at 1-4am suggest he is awake and has not considered what the noise is like for that woman in the apartment below, I think she is entitled to her sleep and as it has continued or it seems she has felt it has continued then it must seem to her that you dont give a stuff.

It sounds like she has a legitimate grievance in my opinion, once someone is affected by noise its very subjective, just because you dont notice it or it doesnt seem much to you doesnt mean it is the case for her, maybe its to do with being elderly/her hearing, maybe its to do with her being a light sleeper, the flooring might not be your problem but it shouldnt be hers for sure.
If it comes to a dispute re the PRTB or The COuncil or maybe the Dept of Environment who I think do noise assessment, then I'd think you will be the one looking for an estate agent based on what you have said, you could easily swap rooms to mitigate/eliminate this problem but refuse, seems stubborn to me.



We havent heard the old ladies side of the story, from what the OP has said, she seems to think its bad.


Personally, Id prefer my neighbours had a major party now and again, instead of unending noise of a lower volume but that is constantly noticeable ESPECIALLY when I was trying to sleep. Op you sound like you didnt have a clue and therefore never considered running the washing machine from 11-8 was not a good idea, what else might you not be considering, Id do as much as reasonably possible to limit the noise particularily at night, you seem reasonable enough, but Id suggest another person to mediate this so everyone has a witness and everyone can have their point heard.

You can't walk around your own home whenever you like? Who is it that decides what hours you are not allowed be awake at? Where I this written in any legislation?

He has a right to be awake whenever he wants, nobody can tell anyone when to sleep. If he wants to sleep during the day and be up at night that's fine. If anyone actually decides to read the OP they will see the guy is coming home between 1 and 4am, what's wrong with that? He can't not come home because other people may hear.