We're the noisy neighbours.

Merch

GarIT wrote: »

You can't walk around your own home whenever you like? Who is it that decides what hours you are not allowed be awake at? Where I this written in any legislation?

He has a right to be awake whenever he wants, nobody can tell anyone when to sleep. If he wants to sleep during the day and be up at night that's fine. If anyone actually decides to read the OP they will see the guy is coming home between 1 and 4am, what's wrong with that? He can't not come home because other people may hear.

A bit of consideration goes a long way, didnt the OP say his flatmate was a nite owl? walking around from 1-4
Its written in an Act RTA 2004 for a start, Im pretty sure there are other regulations on noise and the council/dept environment will look into it if the person really pushes it. So the OP has RTA 2004 to abide by and Im sure there is an act that empowers the PRTB as they make legal order determinations, ie a person is allowed to enjoy the use of their own home in peace for a start, I think you would find the PRTB would consider the other person has more of a right to sleep at night than the flatmate has to do as they please at 1-4am

If you are up and awake at that time, its a given you shoauldnt make noise, this could not be happening based on what the OP said re washing machines etc and the fact the woman has noticed, it seems to me she is pissed off as the noise is continuing.
I think her ringing the OPs flat isnt right either, but if I was the OP and flatemate, Id do as much as reasonably possible to mitigate the problem, they wont change rooms though that would seem likely to help.

I'd put money on the flatemate bounding around the place like a herd of elephants and not realising it, keeping someone awake at that hour is unreasonable and the fact people have to be told to give consideration is astonishing, so whats this person doing at 1-4am? listening to music? tv? that sound will travel. The OP also mentioned that they put on their washing machine/dishwasher between 11pm and 8am and had no thought that the sound would travel and disturb people.

Id go so far as to suggest the OP doesnt even realise how much noise is being transmitted to the property below them, its unfortunate for the OP and the other person if the construction is shoddy, but the person has a right to sleep.
How long has the OP been there?
I have been told the older a person gets, the less sleep they need? not sure how true that is, but its could be possible the woman is awake a lot of the time, so the little time she sleeps is disturbed and the rest is noise.

Merch

zenno wrote: »

Are you for real ?

The man pay's his rent and is entitled to walk the full breadth of his dwelling if he and his brother so chooses. What's the matter with people these day's ? loony tunes it's gone to.

Ok...it's 2am and i'm bursting to go to the toilet...wait...i better not or i'll upset the lady below with my walking across the floor. ffs.

difference between going to the toilet and making some noise the odd time, the OP is saying his flatmate is practically insommniac and up all the time, bit of consideration for the person is obviously too much to ask, that person is entitled to get some sleep.
And whats wrong with walking across the floor and for it to be unoticed? if its an apartment and the person below can hear you, its not like they upstairs in the same house, then the chap must be making some racket and I call bull**** on it, if its regular, I suggest the person is making way more noise than the OP is suggesting.

FanadMan wrote: »

Think the OP said that they agreed not to use the washing machine/dishwasher between 11 and 8.....


As for walking around in the middle of the night - maybe the OPs brother suffers from insomnia. I do - look at the time stamp on this and a lot of my posts I'm up and about nearly the whole night and only sleep about 2 hours max. Luckily, I live in a detached house miles from everywhere so don't have to worry about neighbours complaining lol

The OP said they agreed to not use the washing machine etc AFTER they were asked, they didnt cop that it might be transmitting noise to the neighbour below.

If the OPs flatmate has insomnia thats their problem, shouldnt be everyone elses, maybe the flatmate should take some tablets instead of suggesting the other person to do it, dont see why someone should have to wear ear plugs to drown out noise of someone else, thats just fixing the symptom. Look at my time stamps, I must be insomniac too, I go around but I do it quietly, its called consideration, thats the difference.

GarIT wrote: »

You can't walk around your own home whenever you like? Who is it that decides what hours you are not allowed be awake at? Where I this written in any legislation?

He has a right to be awake whenever he wants, nobody can tell anyone when to sleep. If he wants to sleep during the day and be up at night that's fine. If anyone actually decides to read the OP they will see the guy is coming home between 1 and 4am, what's wrong with that? He can't not come home because other people may hear.

I didnt say that people cant walk around, I said no you cant do what you want after you said whats written below.

GarIT wrote: »

It's your home, you can do what you want once you're not hosting regular parties you're not doing anything wrong.

If she calls again let her know you are going to call the Gardaí over harassment.

I didnt say you cant walk around, but have a bit of consideration for others.
Either you cant recal what you said, didnt bother reading what I wrote, or are exceptionally inconsiderate. Thats the problem these days, the I CAN DO WHAT I WANT AND TO HELL WITH EVERYONE ELSE.

I dont agree with the person ringing fullstop, but the OP has said stuff that makes me think they havent considered bothering anyone else at after 11pm. The fact they havent thought of this tells me enough.
They wont even consider swapping rooms with the flatmate and that would be a relatively easy thing to do, even if they didnt tell the neighbour and see if they notice a difference or see if they say the noise level is the same.
Id suggest the OP tries to do something about the noise and to some extent inform the neighbour that they will do their best, ask her to keep a note of when noise is and show the OP so they can see if they were around and maybe try isolate the time and problem noise.
Both sets of people have to live there and one or both sides saying to hell with the other isnt going to create a longterm solution, something will give and one or both or all will end up moving.

wolfpawnat

There is nothing worse than living under an apartment with wooden floors. Between 7-8 every morning I have to hear the clip clop of my neighbour's highheels. I am always up, but still it is very annoying. The ones before them were hell, so I am not going to complain!!!!

But back to the OP. If the brother is wearing slippers or socks, then I cannot see how he is making as much noise as claimed. We cannot help what time we are awake. I suffered insomnia for ages, it's hell! Or what about if he was working and only got off work at 2am, what is he to do, stay away until the next morning for fear of annoying a neighbour. Apartment living is noisy. We all know this, as long as people are being considerate, that's all you can ask. Sounds to me like the neighbour is being anal, screaming down the phone helps no one. Though as I said, wooden floors are the biggest pain, but that is not the OP's fault, that's the LL's problem.

dango

Thanks for the input Merch. Regarding swapping rooms: I pay the majority of the rent and as such I sleep in the master/large bedroom upstairs. My brother sleeps downstairs in the boxroom in a single bed. I didn't state this earlier but I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
Concerning the noise of the dishwasher. At home we used to put on the dishwasher during the night. We did this out of habit and when she told us about the noise we stopped.
I appreciate you are trying to see it from her point of view. What noise there is seems to be reasonable but due to the construction of the apartment this is amplified. If she wants to get on to the Landlord about the construction fair enough. I think if we were to move on and there was a child in the box-room (which isn't unthinkable), I think the situation could be considerably worse for her.
Anyway he doesn't flush the toilet in most cases at night due to the noise. He is very aware of the noise situation and doesn't bound around like a herd of elephants. He uses earphones to listen to music or the laptop.

Merch

dango wrote: »

Thanks for the input Merch. Regarding swapping rooms: I pay the majority of the rent and as such I sleep in the master/large bedroom upstairs. My brother sleeps downstairs in the boxroom in a single bed. I didn't state this earlier but I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
Concerning the noise of the dishwasher. At home we used to put on the dishwasher during the night. We did this out of habit and when she told us about the noise we stopped.
I appreciate you are trying to see it from her point of view. What noise there is seems to be reasonable but due to the construction of the apartment this is amplified. If she wants to get on to the Landlord about the construction fair enough. I think if we were to move on and there was a child in the box-room (which isn't unthinkable), I think the situation could be considerably worse for her.
Anyway he doesn't flush the toilet in most cases at night due to the noise. He is very aware of the noise situation and doesn't bound around like a herd of elephants. He uses earphones to listen to music or the laptop.

In
fairness, Id prefer someone flushed, I dotn want to see a big turd in the morning thats been festering all night, flushing a toilet is a one off during the night event I imagine, if it yellow let it mellow, brown, then flush it down.
I imagine most children are asleep at 10-7 or 8 am, but its likely the day time noise could be worse.
It sounds like the noise reducing material like should be used under laminate is poor and a better one could be installed by removing the flooring, (for the landlord) but if it was to go that far a good quality underlay and a hevy carpet could do the job.

Gokei

Do ye share a common Landlord?
If ye both complain he'd have to take on some sort of remedial work surely?

dango

Hence the "in most cases" but I didn't want to get into the ins and outs of it. The floors are hardwood not laminate. If she wants to contact the Landlord about it then I would have no problem with it. In future I'll tell her to contact the landlord and see about blocking her phone number.

dango

Gokei wrote: »

Do ye share a common Landlord?
If ye both complain he'd have to take on some sort of remedial work surely?

She owns her place, we are tenants.

Del2005

GarIT wrote: »

'House rules' or wooden floors not being allowed.

You've never lived in an apartment then. There are loads of house rules for living in an apartment.

Merch

dango wrote: »

Hence the "in most cases" but I didn't want to get into the ins and outs of it. The floors are hardwood not laminate. If she wants to contact the Landlord about it then I would have no problem with it. In future I'll tell her to contact the landlord and see about blocking her phone number.

quickest easiest solution, heavy underlay, heavy carpet over the hardwood, dont even pull it up. ie landlord not have it removed.
trim underneath the door to that room so it fits/closes.

Richard Dower

wolfpawnat wrote: »

There is nothing worse than living under an apartment with wooden floors. Between 7-8 every morning I have to hear the clip clop of my neighbour's highheels. I am always up, but still it is very annoying. The ones before them were hell, so I am not going to complain!!!!

But back to the OP. If the brother is wearing slippers or socks, then I cannot see how he is making as much noise as claimed. We cannot help what time we are awake. I suffered insomnia for ages, it's hell! Or what about if he was working and only got off work at 2am, what is he to do, stay away until the next morning for fear of annoying a neighbour. Apartment living is noisy. We all know this, as long as people are being considerate, that's all you can ask. Sounds to me like the neighbour is being anal, screaming down the phone helps no one. Though as I said, wooden floors are the biggest pain, but that is not the OP's fault, that's the LL's problem.

I had similiar back in 2000-2003, a nightmare letting...no soundproofing whatsoever. You could hear everything...the sound was actually amplified due to hollow plaster walls.

Its one reason why i was soooo worried about being forced to leave my current address by RAS, you've NO idea where they will put you, what neighbors you have, noises, barking dogs, kids etc.

Richard Dower

dango wrote: »

She owns her place, we are tenants.

Experienced this as well, she automatically feels more enititled and more rights then you do because you rent. Which is bs because after 4 years of renting you've the same rights as a homeowner.

Richard Dower

The problem is you and the other tenant both have valid points, both see what their rights should be, and it gets very muddled and messy.

These situations can enflame into a major falling out, fights and sometimes worse....its very difficult to resolve. You want to live your life in your flat...but the person above you is diven mad by how you live your life......so

dango wrote: »

Thanks for the input Merch. Regarding swapping rooms: I pay the majority of the rent and as such I sleep in the master/large bedroom upstairs. My brother sleeps downstairs in the boxroom in a single bed. I didn't state this earlier but I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
Concerning the noise of the dishwasher. At home we used to put on the dishwasher during the night. We did this out of habit and when she told us about the noise we stopped.
I appreciate you are trying to see it from her point of view. What noise there is seems to be reasonable but due to the construction of the apartment this is amplified. If she wants to get on to the Landlord about the construction fair enough. I think if we were to move on and there was a child in the box-room (which isn't unthinkable), I think the situation could be considerably worse for her.
Anyway he doesn't flush the toilet in most cases at night due to the noise. He is very aware of the noise situation and doesn't bound around like a herd of elephants. He uses earphones to listen to music or the laptop.

Gokei

Richard Dower wrote: »

You want to live your life in your flat...but the person above you is diven mad by how you live your life......so

Carpet.

Richard Dower

Gokei wrote: »

Carpet.

But those lovely wood floors......:(

Gokei

Richard Dower wrote: »

But those lovely wood floors......:(

Nice carpet.

ardmacha

If the OP has not laid carpet he has not made any effort to mitigate the problem. That should happen before telling the other resident to get earplugs or move or whatever.

wolfpawnat

Richard Dower wrote: »

I had similiar back in 2000-2003, a nightmare letting...no soundproofing whatsoever. You could hear everything...the sound was actually amplified due to hollow plaster walls.

Its one reason why i was soooo worried about being forced to leave my current address by RAS, you've NO idea where they will put you, what neighbors you have, noises, barking dogs, kids etc.

We have horrendous walls, if our neighbours watch tv when we are gone to bed, you can hear everything. They once put on Jurassic Park when my son when to bed (their sitting room is against the bedroom wall whatever genius put that design together!!!) The ones up there today, the guy pees straight into the toilet bowl, really loud as his toilet is above our ensuite one. I worry for our neighbours when our baby is born in July People don't realise we have a 4 year old as he is not allowed play in the halls and is made to whisper in them when we are leaving the building, other families are not so considerate.

Richard Dower wrote: »

Experienced this as well, she automatically feels more enititled and more rights then you do because you rent. Which is bs because after 4 years of renting you've the same rights as a homeowner.

Ah, I love that argument, the old neighbours had the penthouse apartment so were above two apartments, the next door neighbours baby had colic, so it was crying, annoying yes, but what can you do. Came storming downstairs, demanding they shut it up or go to a hospital (it wasn't that bad) these cows had weekly parties/gathering annoying us all, but one night of them being disturbed and they were demonic. Their attitude, "We bought this apartment in the boom, we didn't sign up for this" :rolleyes: Not sure why when they bought was an issue, but anyway. They had to move out to make the mortgage repayments, karma's a bítch!!!!

angeline

OP, I really do not think you are doing anything wrong. Noise is one of the joys of apartment living. Your brother is entitled to be an insomniac and entitled to walk around the apartment at any time. What about people doing shift work. I understand that the wooden floors may be a problem for this lady but again that is not your fault. I would discuss the matter with your landlord. It is not like your brother is playing loud music every night. Clearly, this lady hoped for a very quiet life in her ground floor apartment but that is not how apartment living works.

Gokei

Insted of worring about entitlements, work on a resolution.

pwurple

Richard Dower wrote: »

But those lovely wood floors......:(

Rug.

Merch

Richard Dower wrote: »

Experienced this as well, she automatically feels more enititled and more rights then you do because you rent. Which is bs because after 4 years of renting you've the same rights as a homeowner.

rights and responsibilities

Richard Dower wrote: »

The problem is you and the other tenant both have valid points, both see what their rights should be, and it gets very muddled and messy.

These situations can enflame into a major falling out, fights and sometimes worse....its very difficult to resolve. You want to live your life in your flat...but the person above you is diven mad by how you live your life......so

Its the person below them, it usually seems to be noise on floors coming through ceilings and to properties below.

ardmacha wrote: »

If the OP has not laid carpet he has not made any effort to mitigate the problem. That should happen before telling the other resident to get earplugs or move or whatever.

I think he is renting, I doubt they will pay for this stuff to be fitted, really the affected person needs to make the complaint to the landlord, assuming the OP can supply the details, which I cant see why they would want someone to be going top their landlord, so if we assume the landlord is PRTB registered (OP, do you have a PRTB number/get a PRTB letter?sign anything to that effect?).
When the landlord is getting it in the ear at 11pm - 7am or 1-4am or whatever, the problem will begin to be solved. If it isnt and they are reg'd then they should go to the PRTB with a record of events, not reg'd, Revenue.

angeline wrote: »

OP, I really do not think you are doing anything wrong. Noise is one of the joys of apartment living. Your brother is entitled to be an insomniac and entitled to walk around the apartment at any time. What about people doing shift work. I understand that the wooden floors may be a problem for this lady but again that is not your fault. I would discuss the matter with your landlord. It is not like your brother is playing loud music every night. Clearly, this lady hoped for a very quiet life in her ground floor apartment but that is not how apartment living works.

I think some people would disagree with you.

Also, I sure his brother (sure he said flatmate, not sure when that became brother) doesnt want to be an insomniac, and technically I think insomniac is a medical condition, not a self diagnosed one, as opposed to haveing your sleep pattern screwed around from doing shift work.
Well, if you do shift work, you cant expect to live a daytime life level of noise during the night.

That last sentence, Why is that not a reasonable expectation? to expect a quiet life? I hope whoever wrote that recent crappy article about forcing old people into apartments to free up their houses is reading this now.
New article, Old people, DO NOT move to an apartment, you cant expect a quiet life, thats not how it works.

Id hazard a guess there are some rules and maybe building quality in apartments in most other European countries, where apartment living is more common. I stayed in an apartment in a major continental city and I could hear less than I hear in my home, I didnt notice anyone above or below me.

Gatling

This reminds me of the baby crawling thread a few months back , tentants were getting complaints about there baby crawling on wooden floors,
Again like here the tenants were in the wrong and not been respectful of there apartment owner neighbour's

Walking around an apartment at any time day or night is nobody's business ,its not as if the op is jumping up and down on the floors 8 hrs a night ,he's using this bathroom ,making tea ,watching tv or what ever ,
He shouldn't have to be medicated to suit one person are we really living in Nazi Germany

Merch

Gatling wrote: »

This reminds me of the baby crawling thread a few months back , tentants were getting complaints about there baby crawling on wooden floors,
Again like here the tenants were in the wrong and not been respectful of there apartment owner neighbour's

Walking around an apartment at any time day or night is nobody's business ,its not as if the op is jumping up and down on the floors 8 hrs a night ,he's using this bathroom ,making tea ,watching tv or what ever ,
He shouldn't have to be medicated to suit one person are we really living in Nazi Germany

These paragraphs contradict each other,

How do you know he isnt jumping up and down? he could be going around in high heels for all you or even his brother knows,

Do the last two words in this mean the thread is officially over?

StillWaters

Gatling wrote: »

This reminds me of the baby crawling thread a few months back , tentants were getting complaints about there baby crawling on wooden floors,
Again like here the tenants were in the wrong and not been respectful of there apartment owner neighbour's
Walking around an apartment at any time day or night is nobody's business ,its not as if the op is jumping up and down on the floors 8 hrs a night ,he's using this bathroom ,making tea ,watching tv or what ever , He shouldn't have to be medicated to suit one person are we really living in Nazi Germany

But he is aware that the noise is amplified and causing misery to someone downstairs. So simple to fix, a phone call to the LL about how the neighbour is complaining, and suggesting carpet. Carpet is cheap. It will cost €500 or less for a couple of rooms. Failing that, some cheap and cheerful rugs from ikea.

Anyone who puts wooden floors in an upstairs apartment is an idiot.

Gatling

StillWaters wrote: »

But he is aware that the noise is amplified and causing misery to someone downstairs. So simple to fix, a phone call to the LL about how the neighbour is complaining, and suggesting carpet. Carpet is cheap. It will cost €500 or less for a couple of rooms. Failing that, some cheap and cheerful rugs from ikea.

Anyone who puts wooden floors in an upstairs apartment is an idiot.

Wooden floors are standard in the majority of apartment's built in the last 20 years , I've yet to see an apartment on any floors above ground level that didn't come with laminated floors as standard ,

Why is it always deemed the tenant seeking advice is always in the wrong on this forum ,

dango

My neighbour knows our Landlord and has threatened to get on to him at one stage. As far as I can tell our Landlord doesn't have much time for her but that's nothing to do with us. I wouldn't have a problem with her going to the Landlord and requesting whatever needs to be done as long as we are not in the crossfire as we currently are!

It always has been my brother sleeping in the boxroom though he's also my flatmate.

This issue seems to be a large can of worms. I completely agree about the need for a resolution and that carpet/rugs seems to be a way of addressing this. If we had bought the apartment or thought we would be living there for years to come it would definitely be something we would do. However considering what has happened in the past with her and the fact that we're probably not going to be here longer than a couple of months more, I'm going to direct her to talk to the Landlord and we'll keep out of it.

Merch

dango wrote: »

My neighbour knows our Landlord and has threatened to get on to him at one stage. As far as I can tell our Landlord doesn't have much time for her but that's nothing to do with us. I wouldn't have a problem with her going to the Landlord and requesting whatever needs to be done as long as we are not in the crossfire as we currently are!

It always has been my brother sleeping in the boxroom though he's also my flatmate.

This issue seems to be a large can of worms. I completely agree about the need for a resolution and that carpet/rugs seems to be a way of addressing this. If we had bought the apartment or thought we would be living there for years to come it would definitely be something we would do. However considering what has happened in the past with her and the fact that we're probably not going to be here longer than a couple of months more, I'm going to direct her to talk to the Landlord and we'll keep out of it.

He should make some time, looks like he's not aware of his obligations

BrianHenryIE

ardmacha wrote: »

If the OP has not laid carpet he has not made any effort to mitigate the problem. That should happen before telling the other resident to get earplugs or move or whatever.

If you're sharing a building with strangers, earplugs aren't that crazy an idea. How much is the rug? Then, should it have been provided by the landlord?

Merch

brian.henry wrote: »

If you're sharing a building with strangers, earplugs aren't that crazy an idea. How much is the rug? Then, should it have been provided by the landlord?

A rug could be provided by a tenant, they could take it with them, ideally the landlord should carpet the place.