Tiger Woods Win Sunday

AndyEnvy

Just would like to know what you all thought of Tiger Wood's "controversial" victory over this weekend.

callaway92

That it wasn't "controversial" I suppose.

It was a top class win obviously helped by Sergio's implosion.

Ilik Urgee

It's his putter that sets him apart from the field. Back to draining 12 footers for fun is why he's where he is again.

Even when he double-bogeyed the 14th? the victory was never in doubt imo. 12 months ago he was a sitting duck, but there are very few can take it to him the way he's getting around the courses atm.

idle

In reference to the 14th I think Tiger turned his back on his tee shot very early and the only way he would have seen his ball cross the hazard line is if it crossed right in front of him.

He then walks along by the hazard until he gets to a point where he thinks he can reach the green from. Knowing his playing partner isn't going to disagree with him, he asks if he thinks it crossed at this point. Playing partner agrees and Tiger drops his ball having "stolen" 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 yards?

This is just my opinion and in all possibility could be 100% incorrect

Russman

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

It's his putter that sets him apart from the field. Back to draining 12 footers for fun is why he's where he is again.

Even when he double-bogeyed the 14th? the victory was never in doubt imo. 12 months ago he was a sitting duck, but there are very few can take it to him the way he's getting around the courses atm.

Yep, all the 12 footers for par, they're the difference. Never seen anyone to make as many unlikely pars as he does.

At the same time, on the 14th, if he'd had to drop where a lot of people think his ball crossed the hazard, it may well have been a different story, or he may have just made a double bogey like he did anyway. We'll never know.

I know what I think about where he dropped the ball though !:(

stockdam

This video does make it seem like he dropped in the wrong place; in fact far from the correct place.

However the ball was drawing so the angle may be deceiving. His playing partner agreed with Woods but it doesn't look good.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5SL57mef4E

Maclock

Illegal drop aside, he's an absolutely class golfer. I just wish the guy would smile more. He doesn't need to be as happy on the course as Phil Mickelson but he could at least acknowledge the crowd with a smile once in awhile instead of a stone faced tip of the cap.
Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't he say that he would appreciate the crowd a lot more on his comeback than he had been doing before his, self enforced break......

Maclock

Maclock wrote: »

Illegal drop aside,

Sorry, that should have probably said, illegal drop(s) aside.

neckedit

stockdam wrote: »

This video does make it seem like he dropped in the wrong place; in fact far from the correct place.

However the ball was drawing so the angle may be deceiving. His playing partner agreed with Woods but it doesn't look good.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5SL57mef4E

Who the hell is your man??

Almaviva

neckedit wrote: »

Who the hell is your man??

Thats John Ziegler.

Rikand

he didnt win

it was given to him

Almaviva

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

he didnt win

it was given to him

"if you can hold your head when all about you...."

For Paws

TW's decision making made all the difference required.
His decision to go for the middle of the green on 17,and rely on his ability to get down in 2, was based on the old maxim
'you can't win it here, but you can lose it here'.

SG's decision to go for the 'sucker' flag was ludicrous.
What does it say about his confidence to go up 18 knowing what he would need to win or tie. Was he looking to avoid a play off loss to his 'good mate' Tiger ?

Johnny_Fontane

Ah the Tiger haters, out in force again.....:(:(

Sergio didnt hand this tournament to tiger. Tiger put pressure on him, and he cracked. If Submergio had a one shot lead, he wouldnt have taken on that pin.....

Ilik Urgee

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Ah the Tiger haters, out in force again.....:(:(

Sergio didnt hand this tournament to tiger. Tiger put pressure on him, and he cracked. If Submergio had a one shot lead, he wouldnt have taken on that pin.....

I'll hang on to that one:D:pac:

Russman

Don't you just love the labelling "Tiger haters" or "Sergio haters", seriously, whats with that ?
Having a different opinion doesn't make anyone a hater or a fanboy FFS.

Anyway, I don't think its nearly as complicated as people are making out, Sergio hit a bad shot with a wedge, simple as that. If Sergio's wedge had flown 3 yards further they'd all be saying what a brave shot it was bla, bla, bla. That's the fine line top sportsmen tread IMO - hero or zero.

If Tiger had dropped correctly, if Maggert hadn't hit in the water, if, if, if.......the drama of sport.

Much like David Duval did a few years ago at the Masters on 13th when he hit it in the stream, he was asked afterwards about pressure and mindset etc etc and, fair play to him, he just basically said, no, I hit a bad shot with a 5 iron, that happens in golf.

Personally I'd far rather see someone trying to win rather than trying not to lose.

mag

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Ah the Tiger haters, out in force again.....:(:(

Sergio didnt hand this tournament to tiger. Tiger put pressure on him, and he cracked. If Submergio had a one shot lead, he wouldnt have taken on that pin.....

the mad thing was that sergio played the much more difficult 16th really well, hit two of the best shots of the day into the middle of the green. he then hits a ridiculous pw into 17. it wasnt like he was chasing woods as they were tied...madness...

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

Don't you just love the labelling "Tiger haters" or "Sergio haters", seriously, whats with that ?
Having a different opinion doesn't make anyone a hater or a fanboy FFS.

Anyway, I don't think its nearly as complicated as people are making out, Sergio hit a bad shot with a wedge, simple as that. If Sergio's wedge had flown 3 yards further they'd all be saying what a brave shot it was bla, bla, bla. That's the fine line top sportsmen tread IMO - hero or zero.

If Tiger had dropped correctly, if Maggert hadn't hit in the water, if, if, if.......the drama of sport.

Much like David Duval did a few years ago at the Masters on 13th when he hit it in the stream, he was asked afterwards about pressure and mindset etc etc and, fair play to him, he just basically said, no, I hit a bad shot with a 5 iron, that happens in golf.

Personally I'd far rather see someone trying to win rather than trying not to lose.

Exactly.

Sometimes you just hit a bad shot at a bad time and get punished for it, that doesnt make it a choke or anything like it.

If it did then clearly Tiger choked on 14 from the pressure Sergio was applying...or something.

Rory was hitting atrocious wedges a couple of weeks ago, if he was playing TPC he would still be on the 17th tee trying to finish his first round.

For Paws

Might well be something in the theory that SG just hit a 'bad shot'.

After all, he hit another 'bad shot' immediately after that one !

What are the odds ?

Russman

Imagine that, a golfer hits two bad shots in a row, can't believe that's ever happened before

IMO the second one is kind of irrelevant as the tournament was effectively over at that point anyway. For me the key thing is that he made a clear decision to go at that pin and went for it. The fact that it came up two or three yards short isn't a choke for me.

Whether it was a good decision or a bad decision is another matter, you could argue that a top tour pro with a wedge in his hands should go at any pin, or you could equally argue that the risks of being just a fraction off with that shot were just too high and 15 feet left was the play.

Almaviva

For Paws wrote: »

Might well be something in the theory that SG just hit a 'bad shot'.

After all, he hit another 'bad shot' immediately after that one !

What are the odds ?

Both were OK shots. Within an acceptable margin of error even for players of that level.
His mistake was the misjudgement of trying to play for such a small margin of success when he didnt need to. Had Tiger been in the clubhouse on 13 under and Sergio 2 behind then you admire a guy gambling for the win rather than settling for a safe paycheck, but in this case, there's agressive or positive shots and there's just plain stupid ones. But thats Serginho...

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

Exactly.

Sometimes you just hit a bad shot at a bad time and get punished for it, that doesnt make it a choke or anything like it.
.

If Sergio had hit it once into the water, then I would say you have a good argument. But twice, one after another, is more than just a bad shot in my opinion. It's pressure.

It was a ludicrous shot to go for, I don't care what anyway says.
That was a classic example in How to lose a golf tournament.

realgolfgeek

Almaviva wrote: »

Both were OK shots. Within an acceptable margin of error even for players of that level.

You ask any tour player if that was an acceptable margin (twice) of a miss, and I would be absolutely shocked if they said yes, especially with a PW in hand !!!!!

The first wedge he hit wasn't even close (even the commentary said it). He was at least 5 yards short of where he wanted it.

And for tour players, a miss of 5 yards, with a pitching wedge, is huge.

Almaviva

realgolfgeek wrote: »

You ask any tour player if that was an acceptable margin (twice) of a miss, and I would be absolutely shocked if they said yes, especially with a PW in hand !!!!!

5 Yards is 15'. Leader at the moment in 125-150 yard approaches has 17' average. The typical number is something in the low twenties. So the odds* were seriously against him. And accross tournament killing water was not the place to try to defy them.


*forgive the betting allusion !

For Paws

I (attempted) to make the point earlier that TW had exercised superb course management in playing the 17th. He had realised that he could lose the tournament there, but that he could not necessarily win it there.
He chose to play for the middle of the green, taking anything bigger than a bogey out of the picture. Given his incredible ability at judging distance putts, he was effectively resigned to taking a par & walking to the last tee tied for the lead.
Sergio may well have hit a bad shot at the pin, but going for the pin was bringing the possibility of a 5 into play. He didn't need to, and at this stage of his career he shouldn't need to be told that. If he had played for the middle of the green and missed that target by the same margin as he had missed the flag he would have been looking at a tricky 2 putt for par at worse.
I'm not a fan of either player, but credit to TW for keeping his head clear.

realgolfgeek

Almaviva wrote: »

5 Yards is 15'. Leader at the moment in 125-150 yard approaches has 17' average. The typical number is something in the low twenties. So the odds* were seriously against him. And accross tournament killing water was not the place to try to defy them.


*forgive the betting allusion !

That stat is quite misleading, I'd imagine the majority of those 17' averages are left/right of target ...NOT 17' short !!!

Almaviva

realgolfgeek wrote: »

That stat is quite misleading, I'd imagine the majority of those 17' averages are left/right of target ...NOT 17' short !!!

Cant find the stats, but the biggest % of misses are indeed short - about 40% I think. Then left and right misses, with longs being very low %.

GreeBo

realgolfgeek wrote: »

If Sergio had hit it once into the water, then I would say you have a good argument. But twice, one after another, is more than just a bad shot in my opinion. It's pressure.

It was a ludicrous shot to go for, I don't care what anyway says.
That was a classic example in How to lose a golf tournament.

how is the second one pressure?
the tournament was already over at that stage, it was the least pressure shot he had all week.

neckedit

GreeBo wrote: »

how is the second one pressure?
the tournament was already over at that stage, it was the least pressure shot he had all week.

I'd say the complete opposite, he attempted a high tariff shot, it didn't come off, yeah the pressure was off regarding the tournament, but by not going to the drop zone, he decided to tee it up again and show the viewing public and more importantly himself he could make the shot, I would suggest he was more gutted after the second shot followed first.

idle

At last someone high profile calling tiger out on his, alleged, cheating ways

He's done a huge amount for the game over his career, and a huge amount of damage to the game this year

fullstop

idle wrote: »

At last someone high profile calling tiger out on his, alleged, cheating ways

He's done a huge amount for the game over his career, and a huge amount of damage to the game this year

Link?!