Tiger Woods Win Sunday

Trampas

fullstop wrote: »

Link?!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-2465974/Tiger-Woods-labelled-cheat-pro-commentator-Brandel-Chamblee.html

SnowDrifts

Sigh....here comes the uneducated mob with their pitchforks.

Tiger's agent was clearly not impressed one bit with the accusations. From here... http://www1.skysports.com/golf/news/12176/8979571/tiger-woods-may-take-legal-action-over-controversial-magazine-article

"There's nothing you can call a golfer worse than a cheater," Steinberg said. "This is the most deplorable thing I have seen. I'm not one for hyperbole, but this is absolutely disgusting.

"Calling him a cheater? I'll be shocked, stunned if something is not done about this. Something has to be done.

"There are certainly things that just don't go without response. It's atrocious. I'm not sure if there isn't legal action to be taken. I have to give some thought to legal action.

"Brandel Chamblee's comments are shameful, baseless and completely out of line. In his rulings, Tiger voiced his position, accepted his penalty and moved on. There was no intention to deceive anyone.

"Chamblee's uninformed and malicious opinions, passed on as facts, and his desperate attempt to garner attention is deplorable.

"Brandel has a right to form his opinion. If he wants to give him an 'F' for his year? It's silly. But this goes so far above that and is out of bounds. It's stunning."

John Divney

Chamblee is a prick though, Tiger on the brain, he hates him.

idle

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Sigh....here comes the uneducated mob with their pitchforks.

No need for that just because our opinions differ.

SnowDrifts

idle wrote: »

No need for that just because our opinions differ.

I am fine with differing opinions - that's life. I am just not fine with people calling rulings against golfers cheating.

Abu Dhabi and The Maters this year are prime examples.

markie4

Here's the link to what Chamblee wrote: http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/tiger-woods-gets-f-brandel-chamblees-year-end-grades?eref=sihp

His grade/quote for Tiger, no point in just having Steiny's rebuttal of what Chamblee didn't say:
[QUOTE=Brandel Chamblee
Tiger Woods: When I was in the fourth grade, I cheated on a math test and when I got the paper back it had "100" written at the top and just below the grade, was this quote, "Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!" It was an oft-quoted line from the epic poem "Marmion" by Sir Walter Scott, and my teacher's message was clear. Written once more beneath that quote was my grade of "100", but this time with a line drawn through it and beneath that an F. I never did ask my teacher how she knew I cheated and I certainly didn't protest the grade. I knew I had done the wrong thing and my teacher the right, but I never forgot the way I felt when I read that quote.

I remember when we only talked about Tiger's golf. I miss those days. He won five times and contended in majors and won the Vardon Trophy and ... how shall we say this ... was a little cavalier with the rules.*

100
F[/QUOTE]

markie4

SnowDrifts wrote: »

I am fine with differing opinions - that's life. I am just not fine with people calling rulings against golfers cheating.

Abu Dhabi and The Maters this year are prime examples.

But Players and BMW are the other two rulings incidents. Both could certainly be argued as someone being a bit cavalier with the rules. For me, it was at BMW with the video evidence that Tiger didn't want to accept, that is the most questionable.

SnowDrifts

The players - we could never know from the camera angle. His playing partner agreed to what they thought was the point of entry.

I agree that the BMW was questionable. The ball definitely did not return to it's original position. But is there a chance that Tiger only noticed it oscillating? Can we call him a cheater for this when no one knows what exactly he thought he saw?

idle

Fair enough SnowDrifts

I have my own theory on the Masters incident but you'd think I was crazy if I told you it

SnowDrifts

idle wrote: »

Fair enough SnowDrifts

I have my own theory on the Masters incident but you'd think I was crazy if I told you it

Come on what is it?

Before you say it though, just think about what happened. Tiger made an illegal drop and dropped 2 yards further back. This was a brain fart by him.

He came straight in after his round and said to the media "I dropped the ball 2 yards further back this time to have a perfect yardage in."

Now if he was trying to purposely cheat and deceive the world by doing this... why in God's name would he say it straight to the media? It was only after he said it that the sh1tstorm started.

In my opinion, any suggestion that he cheated by doing so is just 100% wrong and uneducated. Was he a dumba$$? - Absolutely.

markie4

SnowDrifts wrote: »

The players - we could never know from the camera angle. His playing partner agreed to what they thought was the point of entry.

I agree that the BMW was questionable. The ball definitely did not return to it's original position. But is there a chance that Tiger only noticed it oscillating? Can we call him a cheater for this when no one knows what exactly he thought he saw?

I agree on the Players, once Wittenberg agreed, then it's over. The caveat being that 7-8 other players who hit it in the same spot of water, all dropped much further back, but it can be very hard to tell point of entry, so happy with the benefit of the doubt

Tiger may well have thought it oscillated, but the officials seemed to be pretty clear that it didn't return to its original position based on video evidence and insisted he take the penalty (providing him with the video evidence before he signed his card) and he apparently still didn't want to accept the penalty. If he really didn't believe it moved, he should have signed the card without the penalty added and then take the consequences. Think cavalier is not a bad description of Tiger's attitude to the rules in this case.

Totally agree on the masters being a brain fart, Rules committee screwed up and ignored a phone-in from a former PGA professional referee, and allowed Tiger sign his card, thus creating the controversy

markie4

Have to add, that I got a good laugh to read that some of the players at the BMW started referring to Sat as "Oscillation day" so that gives you a clue what they thought of the incident

idle

Firstly, a brain fart? By Tiger? At the Masters? I don't think so!

It's probably the best known rule in golf. What happens when your ball goes into a red/yellow hazard.

Secondly, Tiger doesn't use one letter of the alphabet without very careful consideration when talking to the media so why did he come out & say "dropped it two yards further back"? I found this very strange at the time!

My theory?

Tiger thinks he's bigger than the game and to prove this to himself he knowingly broke the rules, at the MASTERS, came out & told the worlds media all about it and, just like he predicted, he wasn't thrown out of the tournament!

Told you I was crazy

markie4

idle wrote: »

Firstly, a brain fart? By Tiger? At the Masters? I don't think so!

It's probably the best known rule in golf. What happens when your ball goes into a red/yellow hazard.

Secondly, Tiger doesn't use one letter of the alphabet without very careful consideration when talking to the media so why did he come out & say "dropped it two yards further back"? I found this very strange at the time!

My theory?

Tiger thinks he's bigger than the game and to prove this to himself he knowingly broke the rules, at the MASTERS, came out & told the worlds media all about it and, just like he predicted, he wasn't thrown out of the tournament!

Told you I was crazy

Might just be that (and I hate saying this) Tiger's rules expertise in the past was helped by Steve Williams, and Joe laCava's just not as sharp on the rules. That's certainly one difference between this season (4 rules incidents) and the past.

SnowDrifts

idle wrote: »

Firstly, a brain fart? By Tiger? At the Masters? I don't think so!

It's probably the best known rule in golf. What happens when your ball goes into a red/yellow hazard.

Secondly, Tiger doesn't use one letter of the alphabet without very careful consideration when talking to the media so why did he come out & say "dropped it two yards further back"? I found this very strange at the time!

My theory?

Tiger thinks he's bigger than the game and to prove this to himself he knowingly broke the rules, at the MASTERS, came out & told the worlds media all about it and, just like he predicted, he wasn't thrown out of the tournament!

Told you I was crazy

Sure the world would be boring without differing opinions. Gives us something to debate on here. Respectfully however, I'll disagree with you on the Masters issue.

Dolph Starbeam

Oh god reading some of the stuff on here is just painful. If every other player on tour was watched as closely and every move scrutinised as much as Tigers are then he would not be the only one in trouble.

The Masters was a blatant brain fart and no more, there is absolutely no chance he meant to cheat. Very poor from Tiger but there is no way he meant to cheat.

The Players is a harder one to call but it can be hard to know the line of entry, I don't believe he bullied Wittenberg like people were claiming at the time, as many videos there are on YouTube showing that he cheated in dropping where he did there are a few that seem to show clearly that he dropped in the correct area. This is the hardest one to call, while it might look easy to call watching it on tv it is all about angles and even as a player it is hard to get the exact point where the ball entered the hazard.

At the BMW I believe he only seen the ball oscillate, if it did move it only moved about 1mm and that can be very hard to spot, he gained no advantage, as soon as he seen the branch was going to interfere with the ball he moved away his hand.

I don't believe any of this can be put down to his change of caddie, Tiger has been playing golf and has known the rules long before he had any caddie.

Tiger definitely made a couple mistakes but it is all just blown way overboard by people who don't like him.

For Paws

Not entirely comfortable with the notion that those who formed any differing opinions on these incidents involving Woods are simply 'people who don't like him'.

This strikes me as patently one-sided & also smacks of condescension.

TRS30

I don't love or hate Tiger, to me he is another golfer.

I just can't believe that a professional golfer would not call in a rules official if they are in any doubt about a situation. Once an official is involved then all responsibilty passes from the player.

John Divney

For Paws wrote: »

Not entirely comfortable with the notion that those who formed any differing opinions on these incidents involving Woods are simply 'people who don't like him'.

This strikes me as patently one-sided & also smacks of condescension.

I'd say there is Tiger derangement syndrome for some people, although I agree with your point, but not for Chamblee. he clearly hates Woods, and is totally unprofessional about it,

Dolph Starbeam

TRS30 wrote: »

I don't love or hate Tiger, to me he is another golfer.

I just can't believe that a professional golfer would not call in a rules official if they are in any doubt about a situation. Once an official is involved then all responsibilty passes from the player.

Thats true, it doesn't apply to The Masters or The Players though. At The masters he agreed that he was in the wrong, it was up to the committee to decide if he should have been disqualified and they made a balls of it. At The Players they did not need an official as long as his he and his playing partner could agree on the line of entry. He would have saved himself at the BMW by calling an official though, even if he just claimed that he did not believe it moved he should have called for a ruling.

slave1

Sour grapes

Milkers

The oscillation incident was certainly the most questionable with regards Tiger's golfing ethics imo. Fair enough in real time he may have thought it oscillated but apparently he continued to argue his side even after reviewing the video. The video was absolutely clear in showing that the ball moved and his continued attempt to argue for oscillation at that stage does not reflect well on his respect for the rules of golf.

realgolfgeek

idle wrote: »

Firstly, a brain fart? By Tiger? At the Masters? I don't think so!

It's probably the best known rule in golf. What happens when your ball goes into a red/yellow hazard.

Secondly, Tiger doesn't use one letter of the alphabet without very careful consideration when talking to the media so why did he come out & say "dropped it two yards further back"? I found this very strange at the time!

My theory?

Tiger thinks he's bigger than the game and to prove this to himself he knowingly broke the rules, at the MASTERS, came out & told the worlds media all about it and, just like he predicted, he wasn't thrown out of the tournament!

Told you I was crazy

Did this win "Post of the Day".
You need to go here dude

Dolph Starbeam

Chamblee is pathetic.

For Paws

YayaBanana wrote: »

Chamblee is pathetic.

Why do you consider Chamblee 'pathetic' ?

Dolph Starbeam

Yesterday, his apology, he waited a couple of days to do it because he enjoyed the stir it caused, could he not stand by what he wrote?

For Paws

YayaBanana wrote: »

Yesterday, his apology, he waited a couple of days to do it because he enjoyed the stir it caused, could he not stand by what he wrote?

'Golf is a gentleman's game and I'm not proud of this debate. I want to apologize to Tiger for this incited discourse.'

'And no - I was not asked to apologize'

The italizised quotes are Chamblees tweets.

It seems to me that his apology is solely for 'this incited discourse' and not for his article for Golf.com

Did you (a) think Chamblee was wrong to write what he did and that an apology was necessary ?
or (b) agree with Chamblee

If (a) why criticize the apology given ?

realgolfgeek

I'd love to see chamblee interview Tiger.
Tiger would go through him like knife through hot butter !!

slave1

Pure sour grapes and cheap PR by Chamblees, digging up old stories like that, time to move on, an apology (and who knows the sincerity) just extends his profile.

For Paws

realgolfgeek wrote: »

I'd love to see chamblee interview Tiger.
Tiger would go through him like knife through hot butter !!

Interesting view.

You obviously know more about Tiger's debating skills than I would.

Oh, btw, I think the usual rendition of that phrase is
'a hot knife through butter'.

What has Chamblee said, other than in the Golf.com ratings article that inspires such disregard ?