England vs Rep. of Ireland - May 29th 2013 - 8PM

Pro. F

peabutler wrote: »

Oh okay so tell me how this midfield of Gibson and McCarthy would be ten times better ? Ten times better than a midfield that drew with England ? Oh that is wonderful we'll have no problem having 90% possession away in Germany so with the greatest midfield partnership in international history if Gibson comes back.

I never said they would be ten times better. You were having that argument with somebody else. All I did was call you up on your nonsense stats claim.

Personally I think Gibson taking the spot over Whelan to play beside McCarthy would likely make a better unit. Gibson has much better close control than Whelan and has a similar effect when defending, so I think he would be an improvement. That's not certain though, he'd have to be tried so we could see how it goes. It could still end up that the inferior player, Whelan, still makes a better job of it than Gibson.

The_Kew_Tour

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Glenn Whelan is a player who would be in the stands watching the games if he wasn't playing in them himself. Gives his all for us and holds down a starting spot in the Premiership. Yet he'd be thrown under the bus in a heartbeat by most on here for a guy who has demonstrated that playing for Ireland isn't terribly important to him and hasn't been all that good the times he's played for us.

boards.ie soccer forum - where amazing happens.

FFS Whelans was at the heartbeat of everything wrong with Ireland at the Euros.

I was there and even though I have not watched a minutes highlights from it you only have to watch the 2nd goal against Croatia to see how absolute muck he was.

Welcome to boards is ficking right.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He doesn't need to be better or even as good.

I'll take:

Premiership player who runs his balls off playing for his country > Premiership player with superior ability with no interest in playing for his country

all day, every day

Gibson is not a player who has shown no interest in playing for his country. That is more exaggeration on your part. He has acted the bollocks, what he did was out of order and he deserves criticism for it. But to say that he demanded a starting spot or that he has no interest in playing for his country is not true.

Trap has mistreated a lot of Irish players, he has insulted Irish football and Irish footballers several times and he has ended up falling out with and excluding a lot of our players. This is something that also needs to be kept in mind when looking at the Gibson situation. It still doesn't excuse what Gibson has done, but it does mean we can look at the whole situation with more insight than your ott chest thumping blind patriotism.

Beefy78

You're going to see more and more players showing Gibson's attitude. These guys are multi-millionnaires. They have egos. They don't want to be travelling to the arse-end of Eastern Europe away from their families and luxuries to sit on the bench if that - especially if they think that they should be playing.

We've had it with England with Carragher, Martyn, Carrick, Foster - even Scholes to an extent.

The_Kew_Tour

Pro. F wrote: »

Gibson is not a player who has shown no interest in playing for his country. That is more exaggeration on your part. He has acted the bollocks, what he did was out of order and he deserves criticism for it. But to say that he demanded a starting spot or that he has no interest in playing for his country is not true.

Trap has mistreated a lot of Irish players, he has insulted Irish football and Irish footballers several times and he has ended up falling out with and excluding a lot of our players. This is something that also needs to be kept in mind when looking at the Gibson situation. It still doesn't excuse what Gibson has done, but it does mean we can look at the whole situation with more insight than your ott chest thumping blind patriotism.

People should read this.

This is bang on the money.

noodler

Pro. F wrote: »

But to say that he demanded a starting spot or that he has no interest in playing for his country is not true.

It is quite clearly true.

Plenty of players don't start regularly and they don't throw their toys out of the pram.

applehunter

noodler wrote: »

It is quite clearly true.

Plenty of players don't start regularly and they don't throw their toys out of the pram.

Maybe if they all did he would **** off back to Italy.

Wouldn't that be great.

peabutler

Yeah we have arguably one of the top 5 managers off all time and he should **** back off to Italy and we can replace him with someone who wants to play good football like Brian Kerr or Stan and see where that gets us, you'd swear some people actually think a midfield of Hoolahan, Gibson and McCarthy would outplay Khiedira, Schweinsteiger and Ozil or Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets, absolute madness, Traps system one of the very few that will get us results given the players at our disposal.

Pro. F

noodler wrote: »

It is quite clearly true.

Plenty of players don't start regularly and they don't throw their toys out of the pram.

Your logic is flawed. The fact that other players don't start regularly and yet still turn up does not prove that Gibson demanded a starting spot or that he has no interest in playing for Ireland.

The_Kew_Tour

Nobody but nobody has said that we can compete with Spain or Germany's or that we have better players.

Nobody.

It's the pro Trap brigade trying to put out exagerations cause it makes their point seem better.

Should we be winning the Euros or World Cup? No

Should we be beating Spain and Germany on consistent basis? No

Should we be doing much better then getting beat 6-1 at home? Should we be beating Kazathastian with bit more ease then scoring late winners? Should we least look better then team like Faore Islands in European Championships(cause we were that bad)? Can we beat Austria at home if we can keep the ball for more then 2 passes in row? Yes to all.

We have been nothing short of rubbish for past year and half. We got out of jail against Russia and a average Slovakia side. Armenia actually played us off the park? Are ****ing menia.

For 10 minute period against Germany we had 2% possession. 2%!!!

All for 1.7mllion.

Money well spent eh?

noodler

Pro. F wrote: »

Your logic is flawed. The fact that other players don't start regularly and yet still turn up does not prove that Gibson demanded a starting spot or that he has no interest in playing for Ireland.

He withdrew from the squads and cited how disappointed he was not to play in Euro 2012.

What more reasonably proof do you want?

applehunter

noodler wrote: »

He withdrew from the squads and cited how disappointed he was not to play in Euro 2012.

What more reasonably proof do you want?

Oh yes, the glory & honour of sitting on your arse.

noodler

applehunter wrote: »

Oh yes, the glory & honour of sitting on your arse.

Point?

Nearly a dozen other players didn't play in the Euros and they stil make themselves available

Pro. F

noodler wrote: »

He withdrew from the squads and cited how disappointed he was not to play in Euro 2012.

What more reasonably proof do you want?

In order to believe that Gibson demanded that he be guaranteed a starting spot I would want him to have come out and said so when he made himself unavailable. Or I would want to hear a reliable source exposing that, like another player in the squad. But nothing like that has happened.

In order to believe that Gibson had no interest in playing for Ireland I would expect him to have never turned up for the squads in the past, or for him to now announce that he has no interest in playing for Ireland. But again, that is not what has happened.

homerjay2005

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

For 10 minute period against Germany we had 2% possession. 2%!!!

All for 1.7mllion.

Money well spent eh?

you seem to forget that we had 4, perhaps 5 of our starting 11 available for that game?

we were playing the second best team in the world and put out a team half full of championship players, against a team who'd be pretty much an 11 who would be used to playing in champions league latter stages.

Alex Ferguson could have been on the sideline that night and Ireland would still have been hammered.

applehunter

Stephen Hunt, McClean and Stephen Kelly have all given indications of their annoyance since the Euros.

Even Glen Whelan gives out about Trap. Certainly doesn't give him an opportunity to show what he can do when he is outnumbered in the middle so often.

As it is, I'm unconvinced by Gibson but I still feel he is a superior player to Glen Whelan, as are David Meyler and Wes Hoolahan.

The_Kew_Tour

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you seem to forget that we had 4, perhaps 5 of our starting 11 available for that game?

we were playing the second best team in the world and put out a team half full of championship players, against a team who'd be pretty much an 11 who would be used to playing in champions league latter stages.

Alex Ferguson could have been on the sideline that night and Ireland would still have been hammered.

Im sorry but even if we had our 2nd team out that is truly awful stat.

If anything it just shows how ineffective we are when we have the ball.

We just hoof it back to opposition.

There was no game plan or any tactical element in the match for us.

No problem getting beat by Germany. Getting slaughtered is not acceptable.

aramush

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you seem to forget that we had 4, perhaps 5 of our starting 11 available for that game?

we were playing the second best team in the world and put out a team half full of championship players, against a team who'd be pretty much an 11 who would be used to playing in champions league latter stages.

Alex Ferguson could have been on the sideline that night and Ireland would still have been hammered.

Faroes only lost to them 3-0 in Germany and put in a much better shift than what we did.

applehunter

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you seem to forget that we had 4, perhaps 5 of our starting 11 available for that game?

we were playing the second best team in the world and put out a team half full of championship players, against a team who'd be pretty much an 11 who would be used to playing in champions league latter stages.

Alex Ferguson could have been on the sideline that night and Ireland would still have been hammered.

Conor Clifford on the bench for the game while Wes Hoolahan watched the game at home.

Stoner

Gibson had to go through the ordeal of switching fro NI to the ROI, he stated he always identified with and supported the ROI. At MU he fell out with Ferguson over it for a while and Ferguson apologised to him for "getting him into trouble"

His chances in the ROI team were limited , trap publically identified him as a player who needed to move clubs to get more first team football. Gibson publically stated that one of the reasons he was moving was to improve his chances of being selected at international level.

He was played in a friendly and was not great.

I don't like battering Whelan to make a case for Gibson.

I can't see past Green in this regard.
Green never showed any interest in playing for Ireland until his mid 20's

He got his game for Ireland when he had no club, never mind to few games at MU,

He played poorly in many games for Ireland.

No other international team wanted him. It raised his profile to play fir Ireland.

Gibson was heartbroken being left on the bench.

Since many here are putting words and emotions in players heads its worth considering the facts first and disregarding what you think someone must have said or how someone feels about playing for Ireland.

If we were to apply the process some here have to Green that they have to Gibson then we have the following.

Never declared for Ireland until he clearly he had zero alternative options. Green is the mercenary, but gets his game.

We have clear evidence that Gibson wanted to play for the ROI.

To me its clear Trap does not like the man. Its clear to Gibson too, he was playing an active part in the game of keeping Gibson in the squad but having no intention of playing him so I think Gibson had enough and acted emotionally.

McCarthy never went to the Euros, he didn't want to play a part in a similar Trap game of being in the squad to keep the press happy but not playing, he too would have sat beside Gibson on the bench.

It would be great if Gibson had played it like Coleman and McCarthy and the end result was all three showings everyone that we played the wrong players in the Euro's, but that didn't happen.

I don't believe that Gibson does not want to play for Ireland, he is a decent player just not liked by Trap. Building him up into a mercenary while we have guys I would label as such getting their game is wrong.

Amirani

Completely agree Stoner. We'll have a better gauge of Gibson's desire to play for Ireland when Trap leaves.

The_Kew_Tour

Great post Stoner.

noodler

Gibson isn't a mercenary - he's just showing a lack of respect by not making himself available because he thinks he should be starting.

Just because he is finally performing regularly at club level doesn't mean excuses should be made for his behaviour.

The_Kew_Tour

I agree in that I still think he should make himself available.

Walking out does no good.

But at same time if you were him you would surely be well pissed off.

This guy was scoring against Munich and semi final of CL against Schalke and yet some absolute donkey or 2 are ahead of him.

noodler

Stoner wrote: »

trap publically identified him as a player who needed to move clubs to get more first team football.

Trap was very right it seems.

Stoner wrote: »

Green never showed any interest in playing for Ireland until his mid 20's

He got his game for Ireland when he had no club, never mind to few games at MU,

He played poorly in many games for Ireland.

No other international team wanted him. It raised his profile to play fir Ireland.

For all Green's limitations as a player, you make a couple of really, really tenuous assumptions about his character there.

Stoner wrote: »

Gibson was heartbroken being left on the bench.

So? Anyone who didn't play would have been, Gibson shouldn't have been that shocked since he wasn't a significant factor in the qualification games.

Stoner wrote: »

Since many here are putting words and emotions in players heads its worth considering the facts first and disregarding what you think someone must have said or how someone feels about playing for Ireland.

A point ab-sol-ut-ely DRIPPING in irony after what you've just said about Green.

Stoner wrote: »

Never declared for Ireland until he clearly he had zero alternative options. Green is the mercenary, but gets his game.

That is very unfair. When do we ever require our UK born players to make grand declarations about wanting to play for Ireland? The current manager finds out if they are eligable, and then they are asked - it is thta simple.

It is extremely disingenuous for you to suggest that any UK-born player who hasn't publicly committed to Ireland prior to their selection is a "mercenary".

Stoner wrote: »

To me its clear Trap does not like the man. Its clear to Gibson too,

Really?? Is it though? Are you not being a bit of a hypcrite here by making assumptions that you criticised other posters for making earlier in your post?

Stoner wrote: »

McCarthy never went to the Euros, he didn't want to play a part in a similar Trap game of being in the squad to keep the press happy but not playing, he too would have sat beside Gibson on the bench.,

.....McCarthy didn't go because he father was on his deathbed. What a disgraceful point you have made there. I can only hope it was made out of ignorance, although that barely excuses it.