Provincial Schools Cups 2013-2014 [MOD NOTE POST 1]

Hagz

The impression I'm getting is that McKeever isn't suited to the demands of pro rugby, which is fair enough, it's not suited for everyone and it's seriously tough going.

CGD

JagerScout wrote: »

nah he just doesnt have it in him...

What about the other 2? The inter pros isn't for everybody personally think he of all people needed the 2 weeks of fitness work and just struggled to catch up. Just possibly not suited to being a pro rugby player and it is not for him, can't blame a young lad for that

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

nah he just doesnt have it in him...

Are these players not like 16/17/18?

Pretty harsh stuff to be saying about such young teenagers, a lot of whom probably read threads like these

Not the first time I've seen young players talked about in such a manner on this thread

CGD

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Are these players not like 16/17/18?

Pretty harsh stuff to be saying about such young teenagers, a lot of whom probably read threads like these

Not the first time I've seen young players talked about in such a manner on this thread

Problem is the people making those comments are mostly the same age

JagerScout

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Are these players not like 16/17/18?

Pretty harsh stuff to be saying about such young teenagers, a lot of whom probably read threads like these

Not the first time I've seen young players talked about in such a manner on this thread

McKeever is either 19 or turns 19 in the next few months, its not the first time he hasn't shown the work ethic to make it as a professional rugby player. Might be harsh but it's the reality.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

McKeever is either 19 or turns 19 in the next few months, its not the first time he hasn't shown the work ethic to make it as a professional rugby player. Might be harsh but it's the reality.

You think being sick is "Not showing work ethic"

Says it all really

JagerScout

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

You think being sick is "Not showing work ethic"

Says it all really

where did I say that?

oh wait I didn't.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

where did I say that?

oh wait I didn't.

You heavily implied it. Anyway, not really the point. It's the completely harsh dismissal of a teenager that I find odd

Reminds me of a poster called Ruck Inspector who was similarly harsh on these threads. No need for it imo, considering the ages of those involved

JagerScout

professional sport is harsh, guys either deal with it or they don't.

McKeever isn't the first player to find the work demanded to be harsh and difficult and decided he wasn't up to it and he won't be the last. Again it's not the first time he has pulled out of Leinster underage preseason work. He just isn't upto the amount of hard work they demand from players. A lot of guys struggle with it.

CGD

JagerScout wrote: »

professional sport is harsh, guys either deal with it or they don't.

McKeever isn't the first player to find the work demanded to be harsh and difficult and decided he wasn't up to it and he won't be the last. Again it's not the first time he has pulled out of Leinster underage preseason work. He just isn't upto the amount of hard work they demand from players. A lot of guys struggle with it.

Under 20's are not professional!

JagerScout

CGD wrote: »

Under 20's are not professional!

it's as close as professional in regards to the level of work expected from the players, they are all auditioning for a spot in the academy. McKeever is likely to have been part of the Leinster sub-academy this season if he has impressed enough during preseason and the interpros. Work ethic is among the most important attributes to make it as a professional athlete and the coaches will push every player to see how much of a work ethic a player has.

It happens in every sport, some have it in them and others don't.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

it's as close as professional in regards to the level of work expected from the players, they are all auditioning for a spot in the academy. McKeever is likely to have been part of the Leinster sub-academy this season if he has impressed enough during preseason and the interpros. Work ethic is among the most important attributes to make it as a professional athlete and the coaches will push every player to see how much of a work ethic a player has.

It happens in every sport, some have it in them and others don't.

Ya but they don't get paid, and they are very young. Hence why I don't see much point in slating hem on the internet

Anyway, who are you to say if it's "work ethic" or his body simply not being up to the game at this level. "Lack of work ethic" is a very harsh label because it implies that someone is lazy.

JagerScout

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Ya but they don't get paid, and they are very young. Hence why I don't see much point in slating hem on the internet

Anyway, who are you to say if it's "work ethic" or his body simply not being up to the game at this level. "Lack of work ethic" is a very harsh label because it implies that someone is lazy.

18/19 is very young? I don't consider that to be the case at all.

When I was that age, I was juggling college, a part time job plus rugby.

McKeever missed some time because he was sick, came back to preseason training and almost immediately decided that he wasn't interested in doing the work required and packed it in. And not for the first time.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

18/19 is very young? I don't consider that to be the case at all.

When I was that age, I was juggling college, a part time job plus rugby.

McKeever missed some time because he was sick, came back to preseason training and almost immediately decided that he wasn't interested in doing the work required and packed it in. And not for the first time.

What exactly are you basing this on?

JagerScout

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

What exactly are you basing this on?

It's what i've been told by some involved with the setup, his biggest question mark was always his willingness to put in the work required and his history of injuries. Anyway i'm done debating this point with you, take it or don't. McKeever remains a pretty talented TH prop is a loss for the Leinster u20 setup but things go on.

JagerScout

Also Richie Allen is still involved with the 20s. Was at the gym session today.

Leinster5

JagerScout wrote: »

Also Richie Allen is still involved with the 20s. Was at the gym session today.

That's good news. Friend of mine told me he quit last week which would of been a pity as he was one of the best performers in this years Leinster Senior Cup, but he has a bad history with quitting school teams according to some of his coaches who used to work in St. Michaels. Think him along with several other Michaels players[Molony, Byrne, Kelleher, Murphy etc] from this year have bundles of talent and could really push on with Leinster with the right coaching. As for McKeever, I don't think it's fair to be commenting on his attitude or anything in relation to it, he's only a young lad and who cares if he doesn't want to commit to the Leinster 20's, still has plenty of years ahead of him if he changes his mind. To be fair, Leinster expect a lot of sacrifices to be made, when maybe only a handful of these players will make it through the system, so it doesn't shock me to see a few lads deciding not to play.

Leinster5

Leinster u20 cut players :

Brian Hayden
Oisin McKnight
Dylan McGrath
Cormac Brennan
Andrew Larkin
Richie Allen

Hagz

Leinster5 wrote: »

Leinster u20 cut players :

Brian Hayden
Oisin McKnight
Dylan McGrath
Cormac Brennan
Andrew Larkin
Richie Allen

Has McKeever pulled out?

Leinster5

Hagz wrote: »

Has McKeever pulled out?

He quit 2 weeks ago.

JagerScout

Cormac Brennan is eligible for under 19 also. Wonder what happens there.

FR2

JagerScout wrote: »

Cormac Brennan is eligible for under 19 also. Wonder what happens there.

Assume he will go straight into 19's! Allen being cut doesn't make any sense at all. Any other in's or out's?

CGD

Sommerville was rumoured to have dropped out last week as well, not sure if it is true though

Leinster5

FR2 wrote: »

Assume he will go straight into 19's! Allen being cut doesn't make any sense at all. Any other in's or out's?

I think he's going straight down to the Under 19's set-up from what I heard. As for Allen, something must of happened that we don't know, because I don't see how dropping the best hooker in this years Senior Cup makes sense.

FR2

Leinster5 wrote: »

I think he's going straight down to the Under 19's set-up from what I heard. As for Allen, something must of happened that we don't know, because I don't see how dropping the best hooker in this years Senior Cup makes sense.

Totally agree. He was the stand out hooker throughout the cup! Interesting to see who's ahead of him... any idea? I know they were trying to convert a KK prop.

Leinster5

FR2 wrote: »

Totally agree. He was the stand out hooker throughout the cup! Interesting to see who's ahead of him... any idea? I know they were trying to convert a KK prop.

Shane Delahunt and Dylan Donnellan were picked ahead of him, which is a strange one considering Donellan was Clongowes' hooker this year and was fairly average and Delahunt has only just moved to hooker in the last few months.

lurtz

they have that exile Dixon as well. Allen gone to Connacht now I hear

FR2

lurtz wrote: »

they have that exile Dixon as well. Allen gone to Connacht now I hear

An Aussie 9 and now an Exile as well!!! Surely there is something wrong if this is happening. Leinster have the strongest school system around, why do they need to bring in overseas players. I can understand certain players from other Irish sides due to college commitments, but it is wrong if players like Allen are deemed surplus to requirement.

Hagz

FR2 wrote: »

An Aussie 9 and now an Exile as well!!! Surely there is something wrong if this is happening. Leinster have the strongest school system around, why do they need to bring in overseas players. I can understand certain players from other Irish sides due to college commitments, but it is wrong if players like Allen are deemed surplus to requirement.

Who's the Aussie 9?

What would you rather happen? If the Exile is the better option, then why would you let him slip through the system?

lurtz

Hagz wrote: »

Who's the Aussie 9?

What would you rather happen? If the Exile is the better option, then why would you let him slip through the system?

an aboriginal lad Nathan something,hes coming over on a gap year and playing for Belvo I heard.

Leinster5

Allen has been asked to join up with Connacht and Munster from what I hear. Happy to see his talent isn't going to waste, from what I was told by one of my friends who is involved in the Leinster 18s gym sessions, his 20s coach didn't like his attitude. As for the Australian 9 called Nathan, I hear he's average and might not make the 23.

FR2

Hagz wrote: »

Who's the Aussie 9?

What would you rather happen? If the Exile is the better option, then why would you let him slip through the system?

No, but why Leinster! Surely it would make more sense to strengthen one of the other sides who don't have the numbers that Leinster do!!!

Hagz

FR2 wrote: »

No, but why Leinster! Surely it would make more sense to strengthen one of the other sides who don't have the numbers that Leinster do!!!

At the end of the day, Leinster's priority is Leinster. They might rate this guy Dixon quite highly, and as such don't want him heading to another province. Leinster aren't exactly brimming with prospects at hooker. Delahunt is a converted tight-head and Donnellan sat behind Abbott for Ireland.

Anyway, I think Leinster5's point about Allen not impressing the coaches attitude wise might hold some truth. I saw on Cathal Marsh's twitter that he was getting on the wrong side of the coach by showing up late to training.

Leinster5

Hagz wrote: »

At the end of the day, Leinster's priority is Leinster. They might rate this guy Dixon quite highly, and as such don't want him heading to another province. Leinster aren't exactly brimming with prospects at hooker. Delahunt is a converted tight-head and Donnellan sat behind Abbott for Ireland.

Anyway, I think Leinster5's point about Allen not impressing the coaches attitude wise might hold some truth. I saw on Cathal Marsh's twitter that he was getting on the wrong side of the coach by showing up late to training.

I just think it's a strange one. Have to wait and see Dixon play, but I'd certainly rate Allen over Donnellen and Delahunt based on this years performances. Pity Allen's attitude got in the way of his overall talent, as I didn't see him have a bad game all year, and I watched him quite a lot as well as Donnellan.

lurtz

Hagz wrote: »

At the end of the day, Leinster's priority is Leinster. They might rate this guy Dixon quite highly, and as such don't want him heading to another province. Leinster aren't exactly brimming with prospects at hooker. Delahunt is a converted tight-head and Donnellan sat behind Abbott for Ireland.

Anyway, I think Leinster5's point about Allen not impressing the coaches attitude wise might hold some truth. I saw on Cathal Marsh's twitter that he was getting on the wrong side of the coach by showing up late to training.

it was delahunt who was on the bench for ireland,donnellan didnt make the squad.
Hadnt heard that about Allen

Hagz

lurtz wrote: »

it was delahunt who was on the bench for ireland,donnellan didnt make the squad.
Hadnt heard that about Allen

I meant at u18 level.

Hype710

Anyone have any insight on a likely line up for Leinster's 20s? Will the likes of Dooley and Leavy feature?

Leinster5

Hype710 wrote: »

Anyone have any insight on a likely line up for Leinster's 20s? Will the likes of Dooley and Leavy feature?

Dooley, Leavy & Byrne aren't playing. Leinster will have a weak enough pack compared to Munster and Connacht if I'm honest.

Liveforrugby

Leinster5 wrote: »

Dooley, Leavy & Byrne aren't playing. Leinster will have a weak enough pack compared to Munster and Connacht if I'm honest.

Why not? Post world cup? Any injuries?

Leinster5

Liveforrugby wrote: »

Why not? Post world cup? Any injuries?

Dooley is injured and Leavy doesn't want's to train with the academy. Allen has joined up with Connacht by the way.

lurtz

Leinster5 wrote: »

Dooley is injured and Leavy doesn't want's to train with the academy. Allen has joined up with Connacht by the way.

Id say its more that Leavy is in the senior plans than he doesnt want to play 20s,hes not a diva

Leinster5

lurtz wrote: »

Id say its more that Leavy is in the senior plans than he doesnt want to play 20s,hes not a diva

Excuse my last post, made little sense. Leavy is currently training with the Academy and is looking to train with the Seniors rather than the 20's.

Liveforrugby

What about byrne?

RuPi

He was pictured training with the seniors so doubt it.

Did this not happen last year as well when Leinster didn't play their returning players in the inter pros such as McGrath? If anything it gives other lads a chance to put their hand up and allow the Irish coaches a chance to see a greater pool of players.

lurtz

RuPi wrote: »

He was pictured training with the seniors so doubt it.

Did this not happen last year as well when Leinster didn't play their returning players in the inter pros such as McGrath? If anything it gives other lads a chance to put their hand up and allow the Irish coaches a chance to see a greater pool of players.

yeah think thats more the reason

CGD

Byrne will be joining 20's

JagerScout

anyone who watched byrne knows he isnt ready for the big time. hype on him needs to be dialed back.

Tox56

JagerScout wrote: »

anyone who watched byrne knows he isnt ready for the big time. hype on him needs to be dialed back.

Anyone who watched him in the New Zealand game in the JWC you mean, most of his games for Leinster A and even for the U20s weren't televised. No player at U20 level is ready for the big time but he has a lot more potential than most, I mean he's already played for Leinster.

CGD

Tox56 wrote: »

Anyone who watched him in the New Zealand game in the JWC you mean, most of his games for Leinster A and even for the U20s weren't televised. No player at U20 level is ready for the big time but he has a lot more potential than most, I mean he's already played for Leinster.

Have to agree with jägerscout he is a bit over hyped and has regressed a little not impressive lately. Needs to improve and kick on this season still a young lad potential is there just needs to improve mentally and believe in himself big year ahead for him!

Quint2010

Tox56 wrote: »

Anyone who watched him in the New Zealand game in the JWC you mean, most of his games for Leinster A and even for the U20s weren't televised. No player at U20 level is ready for the big time but he has a lot more potential than most, I mean he's already played for Leinster.

I think that foot injury really set him back. In the A game last October he looked immense but hasn't really re-discovered that form since. Wonder why no Molony? All the rest of the new academy guys are there.