Provincial Schools Cups 2013-2014 [MOD NOTE POST 1]

Hagz · 26-03-2014 3:42pm

The a particularly strong year for the u18s.

mtwr999 · 26-03-2014 3:51pm

Hagz wrote: »

The a particularly strong year for the u18s.

not sure I agree..

Hagz · 26-03-2014 3:58pm

Wait, I made a typo. That was supposed to say NOT a particularly strong year.

mtwr999 · 26-03-2014 4:02pm

Hagz wrote: »

Wait, I made a typo. That was supposed to say NOT a particularly strong year.

i'd say its about average...

Ryan and Stockdale are special players from what i've seen..
Have heard excellent things about O'Donnell too..

Bridge93 · 26-03-2014 4:10pm

mtwr999 wrote: »

i'd say its about average...

Ryan and Stockdale are special players from what i've seen..
Have heard excellent things about O'Donnell too..

Jack Power is a super player too and Gilsenan is returning from last year. There's a scattering of individual talent but not the collective of previous years.

mtwr999 · 26-03-2014 4:13pm

Forgot about Power, he is a very talented player.. interested to see if he starts at 13 or 15.. probably 15..
Not sure what to make of Gilsenan..

Hagz · 26-03-2014 4:14pm

I've only really seen the Leinster players in fairness. Out of the backs Osbourne looks promising and Power and Lamour had storming cup performances. In the pack James Ryan has a big reputation and Keane impressed me in the cup as well.

mtwr999 · 26-03-2014 4:25pm

James Ryan's big reputation is well deserved.. if he was leaving school this year he would be going straight into the leinster academy
Captained Leinster u19 schools versus Australia, Leinster u18 schools, started for Leinster/Ireland u18 schools last year as a 4th year.

Other u18 players who started for the u19 schools side that beat Oz were John Molony, Will Connors and David Duggan. Max Deegan came off the bench. So you would assume they are relatively highly thought of.

The Lost Sheep · 26-03-2014 4:40pm

mtwr999 wrote: »

James Ryan's big reputation is well deserved.. if he was leaving school this year he would be going straight into the leinster academy
Captained Leinster u19 schools versus Australia, Leinster u18 schools, started for Leinster/Ireland u18 schools last year as a 4th year.

Other u18 players who started for the u19 schools side that beat Oz were John Molony, Will Connors and David Duggan. Max Deegan came off the bench. So you would assume they are relatively highly thought of.

People keep going on about him playing as a 4th year but surely its more relevant to say how he played u18 schools for Leinster/Ireland last year as an under 17 than a fourth year

mtwr999 · 26-03-2014 4:47pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

People keep going on about him playing as a 4th year but surely its more relevant to say how he played u18 schools for Leinster/Ireland last year as an under 17 than a fourth year

you mean when he impressed greatly? It's not every year you see a u17 second row start for Ireland u18 and perform well... then go on an captaining leinster u19 to a win against Australia schools as an u18, while also scoring a try.

The Lost Sheep · 26-03-2014 5:15pm

mtwr999 wrote: »

you mean when he impressed greatly? It's not every year you see a u17 second row start for Ireland u18 schools and perform well... then go on an captaining leinster u19 to a win against Australia schools as an u18, while also scoring a try.

there is regularly players playing a year under and impressing but as I said that's what people don't say. they say he's a fourth year but what is more relevant is saying he's an u17
The captaining of a side a year younger is a very impressive feat.

Hagz · 26-03-2014 5:23pm

Well it's kind of the same thing. If you're in 4th year you will more often than not be u17.

thetruth_time · 26-03-2014 11:29pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The squad going to FIRA should have the best from the youths, schools and exiles. With a second strength squad of the remainder playing in the fixtures the youths play.
The schools v youths fixture at Christmas should be final trial in selection for each squad though obviously outstanding performances in schools cups/later stages of youths competitions like pan munster etc should give a player another chance to be looked at by irish coaches

Back when you were 'Ormond Lad' on a thread like this a you were complaining about how the youths should be representing Ireland at Fira, I made the suggestion that there should be no Ireland schools/youths teams, just ireland u18 & Ire u18 'A' and you couldn't have disagreed more!

Funny how you you've changed your tune!!

The Lost Sheep · 26-03-2014 11:35pm

thetruth_time wrote: »

Back when you were 'Ormond Lad' on a thread like this a you were complaining about how the youths should be representing Ireland at Fira, I made the suggestion that there should be no Ireland schools/youths teams, just ireland u18 & Ire u18 'A' and you couldn't have disagreed more!

Funny how you you've changed your tune!!

Cant have changed any tune if didn't play one in the beginning...
when the youths competed in the FIRA competition the schools competed in another competition and when that competition was stopped the youths were dumped out of the FIRA for the schools side

thetruth_time · 26-03-2014 11:49pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Cant have changed any tune if didn't play one in the beginning...
when the youths competed in the FIRA competition the schools competed in another competition and when that competition was stopped the youths were dumped out of the FIRA for the schools side

Changed your tune is a phrase people often use.. Not to worry if you don't understand the meaning of the term...

Should have said you've Changed your opinion, there much easier for you to understand.

The Lost Sheep · 27-03-2014 12:02am

thetruth_time wrote: »

Changed your tune is a phrase people often use.. Not to worry if you don't understand the meaning of the term...

Should have said you've Changed your opinion, there much easier for you to understand.

I understood what you said the first time which Is why I replied in manner I did

Anyway is anyone going to Connacht SSC replay tomorrow? Ive a meeting in Galway City Centre around 3 o clock so should be able to squeeze in the most of the game beforehand?

Hard to predict a winner after last game. Anyone else have a prediction?

Bridge93 · 27-03-2014 12:27am

I'd have to agree that it would be nice if we could have an u18 side sent to the euros that is a representative of the best players underage that we have be they schools or clubs. I'd like to see it happen.
But how likely is it to ever happen? Or how difficult would it be Torrey set up such a team? If there was an A team it would fill any worry that it means less players getting time but I suppose you'd have to wonder who could they play. Maybe enter the European B league?
What do the other elite nations do selection wise?

The Lost Sheep · 27-03-2014 12:58am

Bridge93 wrote: »

I'd have to agree that it would be nice if we could have an u18 side sent to the euros that is a representative of the best players underage that we have be they schools or clubs. I'd like to see it happen.
But how likely is it to ever happen? Or how difficult would it be Torrey set up such a team? If there was an A team it would fill any worry that it means less players getting time but I suppose you'd have to wonder who could they play. Maybe enter the European B league?
What do the other elite nations do selection wise?

France have an A and a B side. England have a side for players already in the premiership academies as under 18s and another side for those not yet or not interested in playing for the pro sides or joining academies.
Most other countries field just one side
Its unlikely to ever happen. What European b league?

The Lost Sheep · 27-03-2014 5:55pm

Sligo Grammar won Connacht Senior title in todays replay. Grammar won 10-9 in tough conditions and deserved victory. Garbally tried to play a bit too wide and would have been better off using their bigger pack a bit closer to breakdown and wearing down their opponents.
Weather was horrible throughout though not a bad game

Brewster · 27-03-2014 6:42pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Sligo Grammar won Connacht Senior title in todays replay. Grammar won 10-9 in tough conditions and deserved victory. Garbally tried to play a bit too wide and would have been better off using their bigger pack a bit closer to breakdown and wearing down their opponents.
Weather was horrible throughout though not a bad game

Delighted for them. They should have won last week by all accounts.

The Lost Sheep · 27-03-2014 7:20pm

Brewster wrote: »

Delighted for them. They should have won last week by all accounts.

Yeah probably.
Thought last weekends game was better tbh
That's a Connacht double for some of those Sligo players as Sligo RFC won Connacht u19 league and lost out to Bruff in All Ireland semi last weekend

annelin · 28-03-2014 12:58am

it will be involved

Hagz · 30-03-2014 6:22pm

Ireland u18 beat Scotland 26-6. Tries from Matthew Gilsenan, Jacob Stockdale (2) and Calvin Nash
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixturesandresults/30298.php

The Lost Sheep · 30-03-2014 7:45pm

Hagz wrote: »

Ireland u18 schools beat Scotland 26-6. Tries from Matthew Gilsenan, Jacob Stockdale (2) and Calvin Nash
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixturesandresults/30298.php

FYP
Alright win as Scotland aren't the greatest.
England will be side to beat at this level in FIRA as they've dominated since the change of format for 2011 when schools side replaced youths for Ireland

Hagz · 30-03-2014 8:05pm

Don't you mean BYP :pac:

Hagz · 31-03-2014 3:57pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMHgl2UaRRo

thetruth_time · 31-03-2014 10:58pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

FYP"]http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixturesandresults/30298.php[/URL]

FYP
Alright win as Scotland aren't the greatest.
England will be side to beat at this level in FIRA as they've dominated since the change of format for 2011 when schools side replaced youths for Ireland[/quote]
Not correct... Ireland won Fira in 2011, beat England in the final!!

The Lost Sheep · 31-03-2014 11:13pm

thetruth_time wrote: »

Not correct... Ireland won Fira in 2011, beat England in the final!!

What's not correct? England have won all the other competitions and lost just once since they began to send their premier side to the FIRA championships.

That's what I call domination of a competition. 1 loss in 9-10 games over 3 tournaments.

Only school competitions to be decided are 2nd/3rd/4th cups/leagues aren't they?

thetruth_time · 31-03-2014 11:24pm

they've dominated since the change of format for 2011 when schools side replaced youths for Ireland[/quote]
That is what's not correct. Ireland Schools won the competition in 2011.

The Lost Sheep · 31-03-2014 11:57pm

thetruth_time wrote: »

That is what's not correct. Ireland Schools won the competition in 2011.

England have still dominated. Were in final in 2011 and won the other two competitions. So it is correct. They've dominated the competition. 2 wins and a runners up place. in final each year.

RobbieRuns · 01-04-2014 9:35am

England have dominated this competition, I think that is fair and factual.

Hagz · 01-04-2014 5:45pm

LS, you'll be happy to know that Leinster are taking the initiative and sending branch reps to the schools around Leinster with the goal of encouraging students to carry on playing rugby after school.

The Lost Sheep · 01-04-2014 5:46pm

Hagz wrote: »

LS, you'll be happy to know that Leinster are taking the initiative and sending branch reps to the schools around Leinster with the goal of encouraging students to carry on playing rugby after school.

Yeah i saw Ward mention it in the Indo. Wonder what they are actually doing to try keep people in the game.

Gordon Gecko · 01-04-2014 5:55pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yeah i saw Ward mention it in the Indo. Wonder what they are actually doing to try keep people in the game.

Yeah it'll be interesting all right to see what tack they take with it. Could never understand why so many talented players from my year, and even less talented ones who enjoyed the sport, dropped out of it to booze and the likes. So many clubs are prioritizing their u20s, free gear and the like, and giving young lads opportunities in the senior squad that they can't really be faulted.

The Lost Sheep · 01-04-2014 5:59pm

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

Yeah it'll be interesting all right to see what tack they take with it. Could never understand why so many talented players from my year, and even less talented ones who enjoyed the sport, dropped out of it to booze and the likes. So many clubs are prioritizing their u20s, free gear and the like, and giving young lads opportunities in the senior squad that they can't really be faulted.

Never mind just the players who are senior 1st xv players but what of the players who are 3rds/4ths etc. They are the ones who dont get the attention from the clubs..

Should there be small "open u19 cups" similar to in Limerick at the end of the season in Dublin. Small cup where all the senior clubs enter sides and play small competition where any kid who attended a rugby playing school is encouraged to play. This could be first step to try keep players who will not have played any rugby outside of a school environment for possibly 5/6 years play for a club before the end of the season and it may help in keeping them playing rugby the following september and on....

Hagz · 01-04-2014 6:02pm

I have no idea what they're going to do, but even the simple action of going to the school and encouraging everyone and more importantly explaining to them that there is room for everyone will help draw in a more numbers for sure.

FrannoFan · 01-04-2014 7:56pm

Schools are possibly guilty of not fostering a relationship with the Schools. Some do but a lot are more concerned with immediate goals like winning the cup.
Clubs do themselves no favours by paying lads to play 20's. If you give a lad a few grand to play for your club when he is that age grade, how is he to be motivated to play for the same clubs seconds/thirds for free after wards?

RuPi · 05-04-2014 8:20am

Why are Dublin schools so far ahead in general? A lot of Ulster schools train just as much but are still off the pace, is it down to resources? Quality of coaching? The culture? Is more done from an earlier age rather than waiting to Senior rugby?

rugby addict · 05-04-2014 11:14am

RuPi wrote: »

Why are Dublin schools so far ahead in general? A lot of Ulster schools train just as much but are still off the pace, is it down to resources? Quality of coaching? The culture? Is more done from an earlier age rather than waiting to Senior rugby?

The big Dublin schools are coached at higher standard in the early years and therefore have a much better skill set by the time they make it to Senior rugby, when other schools are trying to catch up.

FrannoFan · 05-04-2014 11:53am

RuPi wrote: »

Why are Dublin schools so far ahead in general? A lot of Ulster schools train just as much but are still off the pace, is it down to resources? Quality of coaching? The culture? Is more done from an earlier age rather than waiting to Senior rugby?

If you are in a rugby school in leinster you are training 4 days a week from a young age compared to twice a week perhaps in a club.
Added to that there is the cultural significance of making schools sides
The number of competitive sides drive up the standards. Methody are as good as most leinster schools but there might only be 1/2/3 tough team for them in ulster. When you see a smaller school like Andrews have 4 Irish u18 it gives you the idea of the standard across the board. The big 6 and around 4 to 5 strong league schools setting high standards for each other make it all very competitive.

The Lost Sheep · 05-04-2014 1:44pm

FrannoFan wrote: »

Schools are possibly guilty of not fostering a relationship with the Schools. Some do but a lot are more concerned with immediate goals like winning the cup.
Clubs do themselves no favours by paying lads to play 20's. If you give a lad a few grand to play for your club when he is that age grade, how is he to be motivated to play for the same clubs seconds/thirds for free after wards?

How many players get a few grand to play 20s????
paying players has to change but clubs need to develop links between players when they're still in school and keep contact all through school years.

RuPi wrote: »

Why are Dublin schools so far ahead in general? A lot of Ulster schools train just as much but are still off the pace, is it down to resources? Quality of coaching? The culture? Is more done from an earlier age rather than waiting to Senior rugby?

Bigger schools, can pay coaches. resources could be it. Coaching perhaps. hard to say

FrannoFan wrote: »

If you are in a rugby school in leinster you are training 4 days a week from a young age compared to twice a week perhaps in a club.
Added to that there is the cultural significance of making schools sides
The number of competitive sides drive up the standards. Methody are as good as most leinster schools but there might only be 1/2/3 tough team for them in ulster. When you see a smaller school like Andrews have 4 Irish u18 it gives you the idea of the standard across the board. The big 6 and around 4 to 5 strong league schools setting high standards for each other make it all very competitive.

RuPi was talking of other schools. But in the clubs there is more and more club sides doing 2+ pitch sessions and getting players in to do scheduled gym work etc

The Lost Sheep · 08-04-2014 1:42pm

Ireland Under18 Schools Squad for FIRA European Championshi in Poland, April 10-20):
Peter Claffey (Garbally College/Connacht)
Will Connors (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
Charlie Cregan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Max Deegan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
David Duggan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Matthew Gilsenan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Johnny Guy (St. Andrew's College/Leinster)
Greg Jones (St. Andrew's College/Leinster)
Hugo Kean (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Conor Kenny (Garbally College/Connacht)
Paul Kiernan (Presentation Brothers Cork/Munster)
Jordan Larmour (St. Andrew's College/Leinster)
Conor McIlmurray (Campbell College/Ulster)
Alan McMahon (Rockwell College/Munster)
John Molony (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
Colm Mulcahy (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
Calvin Nash (Crescent College Comprehensive/Munster)
Jimmy O'Brien (Newbridge College/Leinster)
Sean O'Connor (Rockwell College/Munster)
Conan O'Donnell (Summerhill College/Connacht)
Oisin O'Meara (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Rowan Osborne (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
Andrew Porter (St. Andrew's College/Leinster)
Jack Power (Blackrock College/Leinster)
James Ryan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Jacob Stockdale (Wallace High School/Ulster)
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/31461.php#.U0PqxbhOXMw

specttator · 08-04-2014 4:57pm

Congrats to all. Any news on u19 selections for upcoming match.

specttator · 08-04-2014 4:58pm

Congrats to all. Any news on u19 selections for upcoming match.

Stanza2 · 08-04-2014 9:18pm

When/where is the 19's match?

The Lost Sheep · 08-04-2014 10:29pm

Stanza2 wrote: »

When/where is the 19's match?

They play France twice in Dublin. Both to be played in St Marys on Templeville Road on the 18th and 22nd of April

specttator · 08-04-2014 11:24pm

u19 match is on Thursday 17th,also tuesday 22nd afaik

thebaz · 09-04-2014 12:00am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Ireland Under18 Schools Squad for FIRA European Championshi in Poland, April 10-20):
Peter Claffey (Garbally College/Connacht)
Will Connors (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
Charlie Cregan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Max Deegan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
David Duggan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Matthew Gilsenan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Johnny Guy (St. Andrew's College/Leinster)
Greg Jones (St. Andrew's College/Leinster)
Hugo Kean (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Conor Kenny (Garbally College/Connacht)
Paul Kiernan (Presentation Brothers Cork/Munster)
Jordan Larmour (St. Andrew's College/Leinster)
Conor McIlmurray (Campbell College/Ulster)
Alan McMahon (Rockwell College/Munster)
John Molony (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
Colm Mulcahy (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
Calvin Nash (Crescent College Comprehensive/Munster)
Jimmy O'Brien (Newbridge College/Leinster)
Sean O'Connor (Rockwell College/Munster)
Conan O'Donnell (Summerhill College/Connacht)
Oisin O'Meara (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Rowan Osborne (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
Andrew Porter (St. Andrew's College/Leinster)
Jack Power (Blackrock College/Leinster)
James Ryan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
Jacob Stockdale (Wallace High School/Ulster)
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/31461.php#.U0PqxbhOXMw

4 from Andrews is some achievement - great year for there rugby

The Lost Sheep · 09-04-2014 10:58pm

Crescent Comp play a Munster u19 selection Friday as Munster increase prep for summer training,
Leinster u20s coaches would have had a look at some players who could be playing u20 in September as there was a game in Donnybrook today.

The Lost Sheep · 10-04-2014 5:47pm

Team to play in opening FIRA game tomorrow
15. Jack Power (Blackrock College/Leinster)
14. Calvin Nash (Crescent College Comprehensive/Munster)
13. Paul Kiernan (Presentation Brothers Cork/Munster)
12. Colm Mulcahy (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
11. Jacob Stockdale (Wallace High School/Ulster)
10. Matthew Gilsenan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
9. Rowan Osborne (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
1. Andrew Porter (St. Andrew's College/Leinster)
2. John Molony (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
3. Conan O'Donnell (Summerhill College/Connacht)
4. James Ryan (St. Michael's College/Leinster) (capt)
5. Peter Claffey (Garbally College/Connacht)
6. Will Connors (Clongowes Wood College/Leinster)
7. Charlie Cregan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)
8. Max Deegan (St. Michael's College/Leinster)

Provincial Schools Cups 2013-2014 [MOD NOTE POST 1]

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