Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Irish Steve

To comment on some of the previous responses.

I wasn't aware that Flybe were operating Dash 8's into Heathrow, that actually surprises me, as I was under the impression that they were discouraging smaller turbo props until such time as they eventually get their third runway, a bit like Istanbul, Attaturk won't accept aircraft smaller than a 737/A320 any more, they have to go to the alternate airport. That will change when the "new" Istanbul opens later this year.

Land After, the point about the length and suitability of the Dublin runway is noted, both Heathrow and Gatwick are longer, maybe DAA should have learnt something from that, but DAA are not known for being ahead of the game, they seem to be constantly playing catch up for longer than I can remember, and I was flying into Dublin when it still had 05/23, and there was no SSR in use, so it was all procedural levels and separation.

I can't understand why "flight A line up behind the landing XXXXX and wait" can't be used, it seems to be pretty much standard in a lot of other places.

Maybe Dublin could learn something from Istanbul, their arrival system there uses 2 parallel tracks either side of the inbound track,separated by the required distance, so they put arrivals outbound, and descend them accordingly, with appropriate speed reductions to get the separations right, and then turn them on to final approach to get the right separation, and having spent more than a few hours watching it on Flightradar, it works very well, with significant volumes, and very few go arounds. It would be more difficult at the moment with departures on the same runway, but going forward, it would make for massive improvements in separation, which is the critical factor for getting high volume movements.

Time will tell, a lot will depend on how DAA deal with some of the well know issues that have been mentioned in several threads here, but I am not optimistic, given their track record, and ATC can only work with what's on the ground, and if that's bad, for whatever reason, their ability to deliver the service suffers.

Jamie2k9

Flybe at LHR is Little Red slots. LHR will want them gone as soon as possible!

Locker10a

All the above points are really interesting, and all are basically the type of complaints I’d heard snippets of previously.
Now, my question is, when they procedures in Dublin are so piss poor, and delays are getting worse than ever, why the hell aren’t the airlines hounding the IAA to sort themselves out? They are their clients or “customers” of you want to think about it like that. Why are the home airlines especially, who run their operations out of DUB, saying to the IAA, look why can’t we improve this situation?

notharrypotter

trellheim wrote: »

'Land after' is clearance for a second airplane to land before the plane on the runway that has just landed, has exited the runway, as far as I know ?

Land over is expert level ATC.

View Profile

Locker10a wrote:

All the above points are really interesting, and all are basically the type of complaints I’d heard snippets of previously. Now, my question is, when they procedures in Dublin are so piss poor, and delays are getting worse than ever, why the hell aren’t the airlines hounding the IAA to sort themselves out? They are their clients or “customers†of you want to think about it like that. Why are the home airlines especially, who run their operations out of DUB, saying to the IAA, look why can’t we improve this situation?

They are and have been for a long time but the IAA couldn't give a flying fock. Pardon the pun!

Jack1985

For a temporary solution to traffic waves, it surprises me Dublin ATC doesn't allow for a RWY28 (or even RWY34 during dual operations) hold at B3 short of RWY16/34 taxiing via M2, leaving RWY28 arrivals come in via H2.

In doing that they allow the Foxes clear for RWY28 departures and arrivals taxiing in, better aligning Shamrocks etc from the 300's hold from F3 through to F1 keeping the Links to F1 clear to allow arrivals into the cul-de-sac and 400's.

For better CTOT critical management they could use A, B2 or E2 as a holds and by using B3 as a hold point, they keep access to RWY28 clear for immediate departures.

I've never seen such a disorganized system, a lot of the delays stem from the early first wave. With the midday and evening waves the arrivals are blocked in between departures on the foxes causing headaches for everyone.

roadmaster

I seen the other day in the indo that Mulcairs and FCC are preferred bidders for the new runway

The link below to the article

https://amp.independent.ie/business/irish/roadbridge-and-fcc-close-in-on-dublin-airport-runway-contract-37362437.html

s14driftking

roadmaster wrote: »

I seen the other day in the indo that Mulcairs and FCC are preferred bidders for the new runway

Howley civil contracts meant to be a very strong contender to I’ve heard.

Nibs05

What are John Paul construction doing, I see they set up a new compound/site last week oposite hanger 6.

Phen2206

The tower is coming along very nicely now with the lower tier outer cladding in place and looking very swish indeed. I also noticed BAILE ATHA CLIATH lettering vertically along one of the black strips on the side of the shaft. Should be very snazzy when complete. (Sorry no pics!)

Kermit.de.frog

I would be against a privately owned terminal at Dublin Airport.

DAA has it's faults but it provides infrastructure within it's realm to a high standard that gives a nice experience and good impression of the country.

I'd be worried a private operator would construct a cow shed, lowering standards. The DAA would be forced to compete by being cheaper and lowering it's standards. Thus the passenger experience will be diminished.

I think the DAA should just be instructed to build a world class 3rd terminal and get on with it.

I'm generally in favor of more competition and private enterprise but here a 3rd privately owned terminal can only be detrimental in my view.

JCX BXC

Would fully agree. There would simply be no real benefits from privatisation in this case, the DAA are an example of a semi-state body that actually functions properly and arguably (definitely in my book) serves the public much better than a private body ever would/could.

Chris_5339762

Is this connecting the bus gates to the main terminal via a walkway? (Those planning notices are notoriously tricky to read) Our flight from LGW last night landed in them despite almost all regular T2 gates being empty and parked at the absolute furthest gate too! Thats life, but I don't know of anywhere else where they walk you into the terminal and then make you do a U-turn to wait for the buses, which of course we had to wait for and there was much huffing and puffing from the queue.

Now, we were the only flight, and it was all really quite efficient, but I can't conceive why they don't have buses to meet every flight like they do at other airports. I can only imagine the fun if 4 or 5 flights dropped people off simultaneously. Did Dublin airport just want to pay for the minimum amount of buses? You could get away with less doing it they way they are doing it rather than the 'proper' way?

Stephen Strange

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Is this connecting the bus gates to the main terminal via a walkway? (Those planning notices are notoriously tricky to read) Our flight from LGW last night landed in them despite almost all regular T2 gates being empty and parked at the absolute furthest gate too! Thats life, but I don't know of anywhere else where they walk you into the terminal and then make you do a U-turn to wait for the buses, which of course we had to wait for and there was much huffing and puffing from the queue.

Now, we were the only flight, and it was all really quite efficient, but I can't conceive why they don't have buses to meet every flight like they do at other airports. I can only imagine the fun if 4 or 5 flights dropped people off simultaneously. Did Dublin airport just want to pay for the minimum amount of buses? You could get away with less doing it they way they are doing it rather than the 'proper' way?

Yep, it's permission for an 80m covered walkway from thd gates to main terminal building.

Locker10a

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Is this connecting the bus gates to the main terminal via a walkway? (Those planning notices are notoriously tricky to read) Our flight from LGW last night landed in them despite almost all regular T2 gates being empty and parked at the absolute furthest gate too! Thats life, but I don't know of anywhere else where they walk you into the terminal and then make you do a U-turn to wait for the buses, which of course we had to wait for and there was much huffing and puffing from the queue.

Now, we were the only flight, and it was all really quite efficient, but I can't conceive why they don't have buses to meet every flight like they do at other airports. I can only imagine the fun if 4 or 5 flights dropped people off simultaneously. Did Dublin airport just want to pay for the minimum amount of buses? You could get away with less doing it they way they are doing it rather than the 'proper' way?

Yep, it's permission for an 80m covered walkway from thd gates to main terminal building.

So essentially making it a proper actual pier !? Makes sense, I hope it’s a decent walkway with travelators etc

orionm_73

80m seems too short to connect the South Gates to the main terminal building. Reading the planning application it says “leading from the bus drop off point to the transfer facility”.
It seems to me that the buses will still run and they are just building a covered walkway along the south east side of pier 4 (400 Gates)

trellheim

DAA has it's faults but it provides infrastructure within it's realm to a high standard that gives a nice experience and good impression of the country.

I must have missed this. This is by far the biggest hyperbole on this board for years. DAA is a complete joke that care more for their airlines than their passengers. IT IS A KIP. As someone who has to travel through once or twice a week ( not by choice) its awful and does not show Ireland well at all to inbounds.

Any metaphor you care to use - a car park that happens to have an airport, a pension plan with a runway , DAA has deservedly got them all.

A privately owned terminal would break up this monopoly and allow for some competition at least.

MJohnston

I'm sure Terminal 1 has its outdated spots, but Terminal 2 is the perfect kind of airport terminal for me - quiet, calm, and plenty of seating space. I've been through some actual kips in my times traveling (SFO, JFK, LHR T1 and T5 when it's busy, most South Europe airports) and don't really see the complaints.

Stephen Strange

orionm_73 wrote: »

80m seems too short to connect the South Gates to the main terminal building. Reading the planning application it says “leading from the bus drop off point to the transfer facility”.
It seems to me that the buses will still run and they are just building a covered walkway along the south east side of pier 4 (400 Gates)

You could be right. The drawings are on the fingal Coco website.

Locker10a

trellheim wrote: »

DAA has it's faults but it provides infrastructure within it's realm to a high standard that gives a nice experience and good impression of the country.

I must have missed this. This is by far the biggest hyperbole on this board for years. DAA is a complete joke that care more for their airlines than their passengers. IT IS A KIP. As someone who has to travel through once or twice a week ( not by choice) its awful and does not show Ireland well at all to inbounds.

Any metaphor you care to use - a car park that happens to have an airport, a pension plan with a runway , DAA has deservedly got them all.

A privately owned terminal would break up this monopoly and allow for some competition at least.

Yeah it’s by no means perfect but there are far worse too, ever been to a US airport? Some of the most dreadful places I’ve been. I have loads of complaints about Dublin, air traffic management is probably the biggest, and there’s plenty the daa could improve in the terminals but I just can’t see separate terminal operators using the same airport working well at all

orionm_73

orionm_73 wrote: »

80m seems too short to connect the South Gates to the main terminal building. Reading the planning application it says “leading from the bus drop off point to the transfer facility”.
It seems to me that the buses will still run and they are just building a covered walkway along the south east side of pier 4 (400 Gates)

It’s 200m in a straight line

moloner4

moloner4 wrote: »

T2 bus gates update

I don’t think it’s the one you are thinking of. I think it’s related to the one between 408L and 409L.

trellheim

Would an escalator and walkway to Arrivals Main corridor not be the appropriate solution here ?

Blut2

trellheim wrote: »

I must have missed this. This is by far the biggest hyperbole on this board for years. DAA is a complete joke that care more for their airlines than their passengers. IT IS A KIP. As someone who has to travel through once or twice a week ( not by choice) its awful and does not show Ireland well at all to inbounds.

Any metaphor you care to use - a car park that happens to have an airport, a pension plan with a runway , DAA has deservedly got them all.

A privately owned terminal would break up this monopoly and allow for some competition at least.

I agree with the other posters that while DAA doesn't run a perfect ship, DUB is still a hell of a lot more pleasant than most airports I fly through. The runway queues are the only glaring fault currently that spring to mind. But aside from that, I'd rather fly through DUB than most airports of similar size elsewhere in the world. The only mid-sized airports that I've experienced to be regularly better are either Scandinavian (HEL for example) or developed Asian countries (TPE for example). In most of the rest of the world, even in "rich" countries like the US, mid-sized and larger airports can be awful.

If you think DUB is a "complete kip", can you give us a few examples of airports of comparable size that you think are much better run than DUB?

lapua20grain

Blut2 wrote: »

I agree with the other posters that while DAA doesn't run a perfect ship, DUB is still a hell of a lot more pleasant than most airports I fly through. The runway queues are the only glaring fault currently that spring to mind. But aside from that, I'd rather fly through DUB than most airports of similar size elsewhere in the world. The only mid-sized airports that I've experienced to be regularly better are either Scandinavian (HEL for example) or developed Asian countries (TPE for example). In most of the rest of the world, even in "rich" countries like the US, mid-sized and larger airports can be awful.

If you think DUB is a "complete kip", can you give us a few examples of airports of comparable size that you think are much better run than DUB?

Have to agree I have flown through Birmingham, Stansted, East midlands, Leeds and many others across Europe and cannot fault Dublin apart from the runway queues as above but it is a really good airport.

Chris_5339762

What I will say is that Dublin is a lovely airport to fly out of, but not a great to fly in to. DAA couldn't give a fiddlers about arriving passengers.

And the link to the city is extraordinarily bad. There are very few airports in Europe anymore where a 15 minute train into the CC is possible. It should be possible with Dublin. Vienna springs to mind, but London certainly not anyway.

Dublin airport is 9km from the City center. The equivalent distance when it comes to Gatwick or Heathrow (40km) is roughly Drogheda.

Dublin airport to Dublin city center is shorter in distance than London City Airport is to St Pauls Cathedral. We should be able to market the hell out of that, but we can't as the transport links from the airport are shocking.

Donegal Storm

T2 at DUB is one of the most relaxing and pleasant airports in Europe to fly through, calling it a kip is well over the top. T1 is a bit rough but then almost every airport other than the shiny new ones in Asia has a grubby old terminal.

As for the covered walkway, looking at the planning drawings its just covering the bus set down area on the east side of the T2 pier. Nothing to do with the bus gates

markpb

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

And the link to the city is extraordinarily bad. There are very few airports in Europe anymore where a 15 minute train into the CC is possible. It should be possible with Dublin. Vienna springs to mind, but London certainly not anyway.

Transport between DUB and the city centre has almost nothing to do with the DAA. I know there's a persistent and believable rumor that they like the poor access because of the money made from parking but, even if they were fully in favour of it, what could they do? It's extremely unlikely that the CAR would allow them to fund any part of a metro except possibly an airport rail station which is negligible in the overall cost.

Arthur Daley

T2 is one of the best terminals I have travelled through.

The govt can borrow at very low rates these days and big mission critical infrastructure should be prioritised. Like metro north to the airport. If Varadkar wants piles more people in the country, he needs to really fast track infrastructure to deal with these growing hordes. He was minister of transport while metro north was shelved so he should know the pressure points here.

Blut2

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

What I will say is that Dublin is a lovely airport to fly out of, but not a great to fly in to. DAA couldn't give a fiddlers about arriving passengers.

And the link to the city is extraordinarily bad. There are very few airports in Europe anymore where a 15 minute train into the CC is possible. It should be possible with Dublin. Vienna springs to mind, but London certainly not anyway.

Dublin airport is 9km from the City center. The equivalent distance when it comes to Gatwick or Heathrow (40km) is roughly Drogheda.

Dublin airport to Dublin city center is shorter in distance than London City Airport is to St Pauls Cathedral. We should be able to market the hell out of that, but we can't as the transport links from the airport are shocking.

As markpb mentions, the DAA sadly aren't responsible for this. It is completely ridiculous that there is no high speed rail link from DUB to the city center, but its the fault of the numerous Irish governments that have ignored the problem and not the DAA.

An underground direct link to Connolly to interlink with the DART/LUAS would be a dream come true. But we'll probably be waiting 20 years for it.