Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Hotblack Desiato

Balf wrote: »

Good point, and we should probably mention the regional view is that context. Strong element of grandstanding in those views, but also highlighting the fact that alternative capacity exists if an airline really has a problem with the higher charge.

https://www.clareecho.ie/shannon-airports-challenges-killing-tourism-in-clare/

"I was talking to someone this morning who got a flight from Dublin to London for a rugby match for €150 cheaper than they would have got it from Shannon”

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2019/05/08/mep-wants-change-in-airport-policy/

Sean Kelly described the fact that Dublin has 95 per cent of all new passengers coming to the country as “almost immoral.”

Sounds like they want to go back to the bad old days of holding passengers and airlines hostage and making them fly where they don't want to go.

Ludicrous sense of entitlement out Shannon way.

It's not a zero-sum game, Dublin's success is not responsible for lack of new routes at Shannon, Cork or Knock.

notharrypotter

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Regulator says daa should cut Government dividend!

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/cut-daas-40m-state-dividend-payout-to-boost-airports-.says-aviation-regulator-38100441.html

I agree.

I think you misunderstand the role in commercial state enterprises in the national finances.
They are there to pay a dividend which is expected as part of the government's budget planning.


CAR can say what it wants but the government will still expect the same or gereater dividend.


Heaven forbid that the commercial sate enterprises might get the idea to invest in their operations while the "national interest" gets ignored.

Nijmegen

The only reason to bother owning and operating a piece of infrastructure yourself is if you're willing to burden the costs entirely in the bad times and want to get a dividend in the good times. The state could farm out operation of the airport to any private enterprise willing to run it, let them manage the unions and meet SLAs while the govt continues to own the runway and set the regulatory environment. Put it out to tender every ten years. No reason to take the risk unless you're going to take a few quid in dividends.

rivegauche

Nijmegen wrote: »

The only reason to bother owning and operating a piece of infrastructure yourself is if you're willing to burden the costs entirely in the bad times and want to get a dividend in the good times. The state could farm out operation of the airport to any private enterprise willing to run it, let them manage the unions and meet SLAs while the govt continues to own the runway and set the regulatory environment. Put it out to tender every ten years. No reason to take the risk unless you're going to take a few quid in dividends.

Dinny would only love that. Ironically, it'd be a beauty contest rather than lowest cost or highest dividend cos there is no fortune to be made in management of an asset that belongs to someone else on any other terms.
Be careful what you wish for.

Jamie2k9

Nijmegen wrote: »

Why? The state should just privatize the asset if its not going to get a dividend from it. It regulates the sector so can always ensure it'll be open for business on their terms. Nothing wrong with operating an asset and getting dividends from it.

I don't get the crusade the CAR is on here. Is it lower the price no matter what? Again, just in the context of supply side economics the demand is already high so a lower price that risks certain major projects to allow that demand to continue to be met just makes no sense. And cutting the dividend to taxpayers into the mix is just ludicrous when, again, there's plenty of demand. Cut the dividend when demand is low and you need to, for example, put in some sweeteners to entice route formation.

No they shouldn't. daa didn't pay a dividend for around 6 years during the downturn so not paying one isn't something new. The asset is of strategic importance.

The regulator raises a fair point and the daa could cut (they mean reduce not fully cut) because business do it if they need to re-invest profits.

I think you misunderstand the role in commercial state enterprises in the national finances.
They are there to pay a dividend which is expected as part of the government's budget planning.


CAR can say what it wants but the government will still expect the same or gereater dividend.


Heaven forbid that the commercial sate enterprises might get the idea to invest in their operations while the "national interest" gets ignored.

Understand the role fully doesn't guarantee an annual dividend...

no.8

Any update on the construction status of the new runway/taxi-ways?

Bussywussy

no.8 wrote: »

Any update on the construction status of the new runway/taxi-ways?

Plenty of roadbridge activity and jcbs on site digging up areas along site down by keeling's farm and near runway 16 threshold too,big fence starting across from H6 apron too with area now considered landside I think

Donegal Storm

Works looks to be fairly advanced already, the outline of the runway already visible

https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-browser/?lat=53.43389&lng=-6.26727&zoom=15&time=2019-05-13&preset=1_TRUE_COLOR&datasource=Sentinel-2%20L2A

Jamie2k9

Bus charges to be reduced or scrapped for operators between 23.30-06.00 who expand and provide a 24hr service. Currently operators pay 3-5 euro per departure.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/dublin-airport-will-offer-incentives-for-buses-to-provide-24hour-services-38169461.html

L1011

Per skull per departure? Seems very high if per capita and extremely low if per movement

Jamie2k9

L1011 wrote: »

Per skull per departure? Seems very high if per capita and extremely low if per movement

I cannot see it been per head, per departure is still around 1-1.2 million per year income.

There is no way DB are paying 5.00 per head, routes like 16/41 couldn't be sustained and couldn't see Airlink been viable if 40% of fares are to Airport. Most fares are 10-15 by all operators.

Private buses (non regular) have a pick up fee of 8 euro (Cork/Shannon 3) per coach which would indicate charges quoted in Independent are per coach.

Still dropping of 5 euro fee could save Dublin Bus 60 quid per night with a 30 min freq. Not massive would still a saving.

L1011

Its utterly unfeasible if per skull - it'd be one way only, but still. Still seems almost not worth collecting in terms of admin if its per movement though.

salmocab

I wonder when the metro is built will there be a surcharge for getting off at the airport, don’t know if it’s the usual but in Sydney years back it was a good bit more expensive to get off at the airport than the stops before or after it.

markpb

salmocab wrote: »

I wonder when the metro is built will there be a surcharge for getting off at the airport, don’t know if it’s the usual but in Sydney years back it was a good bit more expensive to get off at the airport than the stops before or after it.

Barcelona and/or Madrid did the same the last time I was there. I presume it doesn't apply to periodic tickets or there's some other way to avoid penalising airport staff.

salmocab

salmocab wrote: »

I wonder when the metro is built will there be a surcharge for getting off at the airport, don’t know if it’s the usual but in Sydney years back it was a good bit more expensive to get off at the airport than the stops before or after it.

There’s a significant modernisation charge using Brussels airport train station. I’m sure if it was suggested here there would be war.

salmocab

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There’s a significant modernisation charge using Brussels airport train station. I’m sure if it was suggested here there would be war.

I suppose it would depend on the level and if staff are exempted. If staff didn’t have to pay Whilst other users paid an extra euro they might get away with it. I’d rather not see it though as users of Dublin bus don’t pay extra.

IngazZagni

I imagine the taxi unions will demand that extra charges are levied on passengers. Otherwise they'll be demanding that their fees are scrapped.
They should indeed have an exemption for airport staff though.

cson

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s a significant modernisation charge using Brussels airport train station. I’m sure if it was suggested here there would be war.

Edinburgh is the same if I remember correctly, significantly cheaper to disembark the tram a stop before.

IngazZagni

Dublin Airport is really struggling to cope with the volume of traffic today. Consistantly at least 10 aircraft in the queue to take off with lots of aircraft holding. For some reason Runway 10 seems to cause more delays than when 28 is in use.
Still nearly 2 years away from the new runway being operational. That's a heck of a lot of extra fuel being burnt due to capacity issues.

Captain_Crash

IngazZagni wrote: »

Still nearly 2 years away from the new runway being operational. That's a heck of a lot of extra fuel being burnt due to capacity issues.

The irony of it all is that it also results in more noise pollution as aircraft sit and wait to depart. But the new runway will still have AM restrictions because of noise

salmocab

salmocab wrote: »

I suppose it would depend on the level and if staff are exempted. If staff didn’t have to pay Whilst other users paid an extra euro they might get away with it. I’d rather not see it though as users of Dublin bus don’t pay extra.

In Brussels it’s €5.40 one way.

cson

IngazZagni wrote: »

Dublin Airport is really struggling to cope with the volume of traffic today. Consistantly at least 10 aircraft in the queue to take off with lots of aircraft holding. For some reason Runway 10 seems to cause more delays than when 28 is in use.
Still nearly 2 years away from the new runway being operational. That's a heck of a lot of extra fuel being burnt due to capacity issues.

Airport seems to be under pressure both in terms of passengers and aircraft movements if the above anectdote and the immigration thread are anything to go by. Only going to get worse as EI expand with the A321LRs too.

I know the new runway is on the way but what's the capacity of T1 & T2 in terms of passengers? That's a bigger issue imo as the lead in to a new terminal would be minimum a decade.

trellheim

The airport capacity study is here.

https://www.aviationreg.ie/_fileupload/Helios%20capacity%20assessment%20workstream%202/P2410D008_Final_Report_v1_5_1%20(clean).pdf

Blut2

The capacity issues (for both passengers and aircraft) seem to be limited mostly to select "rush hour" times in my experience. Landing in around midnight is particularly bad for immigration congestion, and taking off in the 6-8am window is particularly bad for runway congestion.

Outside of that I don't regularly have any issues. If DUB could spread the load more efficiently across the day it would help immensely, but I know that is mostly out of their control - its down to the airlines and their schedule preferences.

The only solution I could think of is would it be possibly feasible to have different airport tax rates for different time of day slots? That might encourage a more evenly spread load if used smartly.

Shamrockj

The layout of taxi ways and stands must be one of the worst in Europe. On the east side of T2 and the south gates you have over 20 stands and only one wide body can move out from there at a time to the runways holding everything up. Building a terminal right next to the runway where aircraft are waiting to take off isn't exactly ideal.

Tenger

IngazZagni wrote: »

Dublin Airport is really struggling to cope with the volume of traffic today. Consistantly at least 10 aircraft in the queue to take off with lots of aircraft holding. For some reason Runway 10 seems to cause more delays than when 28 is in use.
Still nearly 2 years away from the new runway being operational. That's a heck of a lot of extra fuel being burnt due to capacity issues.

I would agree that Dublin does have congestion issues at 2-3 specific times of the day. Most of the rst of the time its quite OK.
Keep in mind that the physical distance to taxi in Dublin isnt very far. Heathrow, Amsterdam, JFK and Charles De Gaule have long taxi times even with no congestion.

Chris_5339762

Shamrockj wrote: »

The layout of taxi ways and stands must be one of the worst in Europe. On the east side of T2 and the south gates you have over 20 stands and only one wide body can move out from there at a time to the runways holding everything up. Building a terminal right next to the runway where aircraft are waiting to take off isn't exactly ideal.

I've been caught more times in Dublin with "there is no gate available lets sit on the taxiway" far more than other airports too.


Also Dublin are so much less efficient than say, Gatwick, at using their runway.

Jamie2k9

salmocab wrote: »

I wonder when the metro is built will there be a surcharge for getting off at the airport, don’t know if it’s the usual but in Sydney years back it was a good bit more expensive to get off at the airport than the stops before or after it.

Current Luas Zone 4-5 single fares are around 5.50, I would expect based on today's fares DUB-City will be around 6.50 single and 9 return (cannot see it passing 10 euro). The equivalent to Swords would be 3-4 euro return. daa might get an annual fee but I think the NTA will have massive influence here. It's fairly reasonable given the current prices of Airlink etc.

The volume alone circa 40k per day from one stop alone is massive.

Anyway there are way to many's If's about this project to think to far ahead.

Jamie2k9

Blut2 wrote: »

The capacity issues (for both passengers and aircraft) seem to be limited mostly to select "rush hour" times in my experience. Landing in around midnight is particularly bad for immigration congestion, and taking off in the 6-8am window is particularly bad for runway congestion.

Outside of that I don't regularly have any issues. If DUB could spread the load more efficiently across the day it would help immensely, but I know that is mostly out of their control - its down to the airlines and their schedule preferences.

The only solution I could think of is would it be possibly feasible to have different airport tax rates for different time of day slots? That might encourage a more evenly spread load if used smartly.

Airlines rejected peak/off peak charges.

Donegal Storm

Had the displeasure of using the private bus area at Zone 16 for the first time in a while yesterday, what a mess that whole setup is. For one thing there's nowhere near enough shelter or seating but the lack of info for passengers is ridiculous.

Countless tourists wondering about confused, not sure if they're in the right area and wondering if they've missed their bus, loads of buses of all shapes and colours that seem to just park in a random bay, half of them have no more than an A4 piece of paper in the window to signify what route they're for. The only timetable info is a little noticeboard with a few water damaged posters tacked to it. My bus was 15 minutes late, I've used it plenty of times but with it being a bank holiday I was getting apprehensive that it wasn't running, the only way to find out was to google their phone number and calling the office to confirm.

Rambling on a bit but its a pathetic setup in this day and age