Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

L1011

Short runway was the fault of the Dail. They were criticised for building T2 when capacity demands didn't appear to exist by many of the same privateer-boosters that are pro this "proposal" - so they'll be hauled over the coals for doing the same any other time.

If you think McEvaddy will provide more then a shed of a terminal with buses you're deluded.

You are hoping on nonsense here.

Idbatterim

L1011 wrote: »

Short runway was the fault of the Dail. They were criticised for building T2 when capacity demands didn't appear to exist by many of the same privateer-boosters that are pro this "proposal" - so they'll be hauled over the coals for doing the same any other time.

If you think McEvaddy will provide more then a shed of a terminal with buses you're deluded.

You are hoping on nonsense here.

I think the value the state achieves here is very poor. MOL would agree. I think mcebaddybwiuod do a hell of a lot more with two billion than the daa

L1011

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think the value the state achieves here is very poor. MOL would agree. I think mcebaddybwiuod do a hell of a lot more with two billion than the daa

MOL called T2 unneeded and a white elephant. He is not a terminal operator and completely useless as a commentator as one

McEvaddy will never deliver anything.

Blut2

Idbatterim wrote: »

Customer experience, do you mean like many of the staff in Dublin that would grunt at you if asking a question ? Lots of security lanes closed etc? What resources are duplicated , you’re talking a pittance in the scheme of a project like that and operating a terminal.

DUB regularly has some of the shortest security queues of any 30m+ PAX airport I fly through. It also generally ranks quite highly on customer satisfaction surveys.

Can you point to one example of a comparably sized airport in the world where competing privatised terminals provide a better user experience than DUB, since you're so convinced the idea works?

Kev11491

Blut2 wrote: »

DUB regularly has some of the shortest security queues of any 30m+ PAX airport I fly through. It also generally ranks quite highly on customer satisfaction surveys.

Can you point to one example of a comparably sized airport in the world where competing privatised terminals provide a better user experience than DUB, since you're so convinced the idea works?

Likewise, 20 mins tops for security.

zega

With alterations and development dublin airport can easily handle 40m pax per year without another terminal

So basically you support a business man who has said some flowery things. I prefer substance over words myself.

Dublin airport in 6 years has gone from 19 million to 33 million. A near 75% passenger growth. All the while fighting CAR to get proper funding and resource their plans to help their passengers and customers.

By your own admission the airport rail link isn't their fault, so why bring it up. The length of the runway wasn't their fault either. The road infrastructure inside the airport from the hotel near the roundabout will likely be theirs beyond that it will be Fingal and the NRAs responsibility. They do have proposals in to build a flyover over the roundabout, I'm not sure what your issue is with the roads though.

It takes time to build infrastructure, they got lambasted for building T2. Elements of its design are poor (stands)but bare in mind the skyrocketing traffic that wasn't predicted and indeed CAR had them down to handle nearly 10 million less now than they actually are and only allowed a budget/projects for the lesser amount. They are currently working on apron 5H which will bring 18 more stands online. A new runway. Within 12 months work will start on the delayed(3 of them) taxiways from the apron to runway 16/34. A crosspoint for 16 is nearly ready for action which will open up the west apron for more regular use. Things aren't static at the airport. But when you are chasing an ever moving target you will be behind.

All of these things are easily looked up through their masterplans and submissions to CAR etc.

Kermit.de.frog

I think I am right in saying there is not a single significant development for passengers in either terminal under construction at the moment.

Surely DAA can get something underway while fighting it out with the regulator?

Otherwise there is a big capacity crunch coming sooner rather than later.

And if more proof was ever needed

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/2019/10/24/airport-charges-decision-a-disaster-for-passengers-and-for-the-irish-economy

Yet again DAA plans stifled. Over the course of 18 years the daa has never got what it requested, sometimes not even close.

Maybe CAR needs to look at themselves and ponder on “you keep asking for a better customer experience at Dublin airport but never provide the daa with the money to do it. Yet every 5 years you wonder why the daa hasn’t done more with what you give them and then complain”.

Maybe it really is US and not them that’s the problem.

You can’t expect a Michelin star dinner if you only have the budget to shop in Lidl.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think I am right in saying there is not a single significant development for passengers in either terminal under construction at the moment.

Surely DAA can get something underway while fighting it out with the regulator?

Otherwise there is a big capacity crunch coming sooner rather than later.

Cumulative little things that add up. 5H, West apron, parallel runway. Some other stuff delayed due needing full planning permission that previously wouldn’t have needed it, some delayed by regulators, governmental dithering over rail connections.

I take your point and I really don’t know how the system works but they’d need funding and then some way of paying it off. Maybe current budget won’t allow them to source billions without proof of how they can afford to pay it off by a guaranteed increase in revenue.

markpb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think I am right in saying there is not a single significant development for passengers in either terminal under construction at the moment.

Surely DAA can get something underway while fighting it out with the regulator?

Otherwise there is a big capacity crunch coming sooner rather than later.

It’s worthwhile understanding how DAA operate. All of their major capex and opex are set down in a five year plan which takes 18-24 months to agree with the major airlines and the regulator before coming into place. This kind of planning is great for airlines because their costs are predictable and stable in the short to medium term. However, it’s utterly useless at replying to unexpected demand increases. If demand suddenly rises beyond what was planned for, it means that it can take several years before the new plan comes into force and then several years before new infrastructure is built.

Combine that with a regulator who consistently underestimated demand increases and you can see how Dublin has ended up where it has.

sparrowcar

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So basically you support a business man who has said some flowery things. I prefer substance over words myself.

Dublin airport in 6 years has gone from 19 million to 33 million. A near 75% passenger growth. All the while fighting CAR to get proper funding and resource their plans to help their passengers and customers.

By your own admission the airport rail link isn't their fault, so why bring it up. The length of the runway wasn't their fault either. The road infrastructure inside the airport from the hotel near the roundabout will likely be theirs beyond that it will be Fingal and the NRAs responsibility. They do have proposals in to build a flyover over the roundabout, I'm not sure what your issue is with the roads though.

It takes time to build infrastructure, they got lambasted for building T2. Elements of its design are poor (stands)but bare in mind the skyrocketing traffic that wasn't predicted and indeed CAR had them down to handle nearly 10 million less now than they actually are and only allowed a budget/projects for the lesser amount. They are currently working on apron 5H which will bring 18 more stands online. A new runway. Within 12 months work will start on the delayed(3 of them) taxiways from the apron to runway 16/34. A crosspoint for 16 is nearly ready for action which will open up the west apron for more regular use. Things aren't static at the airport. But when you are chasing an ever moving target you will be behind.

All of these things are easily looked up through their masterplans and submissions to CAR etc.

Excellent post.
The CAR regulator once again proving she is not fit for purpose with her latest determination.

markpb

markpb wrote: »

Combine that with a regulator who consistently underestimated demand increases and you can see how Dublin has ended up where it has.

This period around CAR is overestimating numbers by double the growth of the daa to justify their reduction.

Clearly CAR haven’t taken in to account the planning permission cap on the daa. Clearly haven’t taken in to account a slowing economy world wide, aviation slowing down, Brexit, rising oil prices, failing airlines etc.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

Cumulative little things that add up. 5H, West apron, parallel runway. Some other stuff delayed due needing full planning permission that previously wouldn’t have needed it, some delayed by regulators, governmental dithering over rail connections.

I take your point and I really don’t know how the system works but they’d need funding and then some way of paying it off. Maybe current budget won’t allow them to source billions without proof of how they can afford to pay it off by a guaranteed increase in revenue.

I understand.

But surely they can alter their plan and, for example, say "ok we think we need pier 5, for example, let's get that done at least". Go solo on the most needed projects.

It should not be a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Pick the most need projects and get them underway.

They don't need a four course meal all in the one go.

budhabob

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I understand.

But surely they can alter their plan and, for example, say "ok we think we need pier 5, for example, let's get that done at least". Go solo on the most needed projects.

It should not be a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Pick the most need projects and get them underway.

They don't need a four course meal all in the one go.

Projects need to be approved by both regulators, so not that simple.

It's easy to blame th airport, but in this instance their hands are somewhat tied. The cumulative impact of under investment is now being felt, and I would put money airlines and the media will be blaming the airport in 12 - 18 months for capacity issues.....they'll conveniently forget this chapter

Kermit.de.frog

One positive in the determination

The final determination also includes a series of financial penalties to incentivise Dublin airport to deliver its proposed capital investment as planned and on time.

NH2013

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

One positive in the determination

"The floggings will continue until morale improves."

So if the DAA isn't able to complete projects due to lack of finance, they will take away more of their finances??? In what world does that add up?

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

One positive in the determination

Yeah I wouldn’t agree. I want a Michelin star dinner but here’s the budget for food from Lidl, oh an by the way I’ll fine you if you don’t produce the Michelin star dinner on schedule.

Tenger

L1011 wrote: »

MOL called T2 unneeded and a white elephant. He is not a terminal operator and completely useless as a commentator as one

McEvaddy will never deliver anything.

I 100% agree. I have spent too much time over the last 10 years admonishing taxi drivers who love to repeat the "white elephant" statement from Mol.

As for the McEvaddy's, well they are speculators. They bought the land knowing that the DA would need it for expansion. The fault here is DAA/Aer Rianta. Back in the 1980s they unveiled their pan for a 2nd runway and a new terminal without actually having bought the land for the terminal. thus the canny brothers bought up the required land and then sat back waiting for Aer Rianta/DAA to buy it from them.
Im not a estate agent but Im guessing a purchase in 2010 would have made sense? Lower land purchase cost and both parties content with the review?

denis halpenny

Am i missing something here? why has CAR dropped the prices when there is no need. Why didnt they listen to the DAA who said they needed the money to expand the airport which is obviously needed badly. bloody morons. Only in this country.

Kermit.de.frog

Don't the McEvaddy's have major financial backing from a middle east fund for the project?

Cloudio9

denis halpenny wrote: »

Am i missing something here? why has CAR dropped the prices when there is no need. Why didnt they listen to the DAA who said they needed the money to expand the airport which is obviously needed badly. bloody morons. Only in this country.

It’s a monopoly. It’s lobbying for its own self interest. The DAA don’t have or want competition so it’s absolutely right that they lose the ability to set prices. They can’t have it every way.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't the McEvaddy's have major financial backing from a middle east fund for the project?

Yes they do after they ran in to financial trouble themselves

Cloudio9

Cloudio9 wrote: »

It’s a monopoly. It’s lobbying for its own self interest. The DAA don’t have or want competition so it’s absolutely right that they lose the ability to set prices. They can’t have it every way.

Every airport is though. So seeking something different is just odd. Don’t give out about the facilities at Dublin airport when the facts show stopping the daa from being able to charge a reasonable amount over the last 20 years has put the airport in the position it currently is.

CAR shot themselves in the foot yesterday by producing a graph that showed since 2001 they have never allowed the daa what they wanted and needed but yet expected them to produce a top class airport. It beggars belief that despite the facts people still think the daa are in the wrong and should still be able to produce a miracle from pocket money.

The cost to produce the parallel runway has increased but CAR and the airlines want it for the original budget. So the daa have had to cut taxiways and infrastructure to get the cost down, yet in here we have people that will complain that it’s doesn’t have the original proposed infrastructure. You can’t have it both ways guys.

Beechwoodspark

That absolute spoofer dalton Philips on morning Ireland at moment. He’s been found out.

Topgear on Dave

CEO sounding exasperated and annoyed by this decision on morning Ireland.

LXFlyer

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

That absolute spoofer dalton Philips on morning Ireland at moment. He’s been found out.

Really?

I think you’ll find it will be the CAR that will be found out for this crazy decision.

IE 222

I'd rather my €1.50 go to the DAA than Aer Lingus or Ryanair. This saving won't be passed onto passengers and even if it was it's only going to cost us more in the long term.

Idbatterim

A poster above isn’t a fan of dalton Phillips and I read another thread yesterday where he was getting slated. What’s up with that ? I know nothing about him ...

Idbatterim

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

CEO sounding exasperated and annoyed by this decision on morning Ireland.

Why don’t they make more money on parking and the hotel they have planned for years then etc. stuff that’s actually in their control ...

Why not build a multistorey car park at entrance to red car park and link it to the terminal with a driverless monorail ?