Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939487#Comment_118939487

Switzerland.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939420#Comment_118939420

I'd agree. For such a big airport it is extremely close to the city center. It doesn't have city flyovers really (eg: Lisbon) and it isn't miles from the city (Munich, Heathrow).

Dublins achilles heel is the absolutely nutty situation that we don't have that rail link.

Blut2

Yeah, if DUB had an operating rail link that ran trains to Heuston and Connolly it would actually be very well connected to Dublin logistically.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939511#Comment_118939511

Runways are generally built to face into the prevailing winds. You could certainly build a new airport and try to angle the runways away from populated areas but then the runways wouldn’t be very efficient which would affect the conditions planes could take off in and (I presume) reduce the MTOW.

And even then, where are you going to find sufficient unpopulated land around Dublin? If you look at Baldonnel, you could possibly take off WNW to avoid Lucan but then you couldn’t fly in from the SE because you’d be overflying Citywest.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940401#Comment_118940401

To do what i am suggesting be out as far as at least Maynooth/Kilcock... its just chatter and will not happen....

Economics101

Interesting piece in the Indo on on noise complaints about Dublin Airport. One person is responsible for 90% of all complaints in 2021, over 12,000 in total (or 34 per day): https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/dublin-airport-got-12272-noise-complaints-last-year-from-just-one-person-41560228.html

With people like this, no wonder the planning system causes endless delays. I know this is not strictly a planning issue, but the attitude of this individual is relevant.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939511#Comment_118939511

Suit ? They simply cannot. Noise is a major factor that demands consideration…. Prevailing winds, obstacles etc are all things to be considered.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939420#Comment_118939420

Near the city, motorways, the only negative is lack of access to public transport such as suburban and intercity rail and a metro.

Irish Steve

From recalling an article written a long time ago, the location of the airport was not an accident, it was put there because the terrain to the South meant a regular hole in the cloud and local weather when compared to other locations around the Dublin area.

There are issues with using Baldonnel for jncreased operations, due to the overlap of the approach routes between Dublin and Baldonnel, which impacts the flow rate, and that's been known for a long time, and there were more issues with separation of the traffic from the 2 airfields when the main runway at Dublin was 23, and more noise issues than are now the case with the 28 orientation that was put in over 25 years ago.

The noise issues now are way less than they used to be with things like the 747's, MD80 family, 737-200, BAC1-11, and similar that were in use a while back, the newer aircraft are quieter, and in most cases have a better climb performance than the older generations of jets, and that's only getting better with time as the newer generations of aircraft have even lower noise levels.

If there's any serious mistakes been made, it's with where the terminals are in relation to the runways, and the total lack of a sensible public transport infrastructure, the lack of rail is a complete shambles, and while there are bus and coach services from many parts of the country, the facilities at the terminals for potential bus and coach passengers are a disgrace.

If Quickpark doesn't return, it won't be long before there are significant capacity issues at the car parks, there have been problems in recent weeks, the loss of 3500 spaces close to the airport is starting to impact the DAA, and some of their mitigations are not working well, and that's only going to get worse as the numbers rise again.

Chris_5339762

Wonder why Quickpark isn't returned already. It seemed like an enormous cash cow to me, I figured the owners were rolling in it.

Corks long term is still the best though, about 200m walk and closer than the short term in places :D

salmocab

I’m surprised to hear about quick park. Used it a good few times for holidays and when I worked on a building site out there we used it for parking. Think they charged contractors a fiver a day, it was a handy enough spot.

hopefully with the metro looking like it might actually get built we will end up with a good link to the city and various public transport options through it.

Phen2206

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118941257#Comment_118941257

When you say this individual's attitude is relevant, how so do you mean? I would be inclined not to take much heed of someone who has the time to file 59+ complaints each day of 2022 so far. The article itself even breaks down the complaint numbers excluding this individual's complaints to give a more realistic idea of how many people are complaining.

I would say this person's attitude is only as relevant as the next complainant. I'm not sure what they think this excessive amount of complaints will achieve? The airport is not going to stop operating and any review of night time movements is surely going to look at the number of complainants as opposed to the number of complaints.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942888#Comment_118942888

Agree here. If anything, this individual's volume of complaints is probably hurting their case rather than helping it.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942888#Comment_118942888

What I meant was that officially the authorities have to respond to complaints. People like this guy can cause lots of time to be wasted. Also the number of complaints can be mis-represented: I was glad to see that the Indo for once did something useful and exposed this nutter.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939511#Comment_118939511

You're talking about billions of euro of investment (and writing off a very large existing investment) for what benefit exactly?

Belfast (which one?), Cork, Shannon or anywhere else will never have anything near the catchment area or economies of scale of Dublin. To suggest any of them could realistically compete with Dublin other than in a very limited way is laughable.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943104#Comment_118943104

The guy has been at it for years and gets the same level of media coverage each year - there’s nothing new here.

You’re right about it potentially being a drain on resources. I’d love to see the conversation been the regulator and daa about him - I wonder if it’s subject to FOI.

LiamaDelta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942666#Comment_118942666

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942773#Comment_118942773

The operator (people that used to own Aircoach and now own Dublin Coach) doesn't own the land, they had it rented from a developer. There is currently a dispute between them as to unpaid rent etc. so apparently the developer sought and received posession of the land. Doesn't look great for quickpark to return I'd say. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40213805.html

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118941318#Comment_118941318

This. It's almost like they actively decided to NOT join a rail link to the airport. Tallaght and Sandyford are the same distance from the city centre as the airport, and they managed to give both of them a metro link in recent times.

Economics101

If Dublin Airport had a decent Metro and/or heavy rail link, this would severely impact on the cash cow that is DAA parking. There is a big conflict between the DAA and the public interest here. I thought that the reason for public ownership of things like airports was to resolve or avoid such conflicts.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943890#Comment_118943890

This is not a competition its infrastructure for the people... So we stay as we are... Big queues... No rail transport... Yes Belfast has two... All I am really saying people more than 100km have alternatives...

Strumms

The cost of the alternative is prohibitive, extremely so. Especially when the alternative is to be built with convenience in mind only. Dublin doesn’t yet need a second airport, just proper infrastructure for the one it has…

The only focus now after the runway should be the provision of the rail and metro links…. But I see the DAA are getting a hard on by some crowd giving them xxx million to build a hotel by T2..

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945531#Comment_118945531

We all seem to think a rail link is the be all and end all of things.

Heres the thing ….

Dedicated bus service strategically parked, all the bells and whistles, wheelchair accessible, shuttle service every 20mins,

Non stop thrust the tunnel….city centre in around 25 mins.

Very little if any infrastructure required,proper staffing……… what’s wrong with that?

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946460#Comment_118946460

You mean like Aircoach?

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946498#Comment_118946498

No, like is says in the post………

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946460#Comment_118946460

That's very hard to deliver and be easy to use. Personally speaking, there is something about a train link that is so undeniably foolproof that makes it a heck of a lot more appealing for an airport connect than a bus. When landing in a foreign city, I always prioritise the rail link over the bus that "leaves from Stand 97 and 3 quarters". There is also the fact that train stations tend to be a lot easier to find and more comfortable to wait in.

Trains have higher capacity and are less likely to be delayed by outside factors (like traffic, tunnel closed etc).

Irish Steve

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946460#Comment_118946460

A bus has a capacity of (possibly) 70, and with the best will in the world, while it might have a resonably rapid trip through the tunnel, there are well known and ongoing problems beyond the ends of the tunnel that will mean that the total transit time will be unreliable, especially at peak periods, whereas the advantage of rail is that it can carry massively higher numbers, and unless the schedulers make a complete nonsense of the planning, the transit time is pretty much guaranteed, unless there is some form of breakdown on another service, whereas there's very few days (hours even) go by without a number of significant issues on the road network. It's one of the reasons why the vast majority of airports have a decent and regular rail connection to their surroundings, and that's without considering the whole "green" issues that surround the airport.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946537#Comment_118946537

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946548#Comment_118946548

Both posts valid and I agree that rail would be preferable if we had it .

However what kind of rail would it be ……Luas type LR …Dart type electric to spur from Howth Junction ?

How long would this take ?

How would the congestion issues in Connolly be solved if the second alternative was used?

Where would the station in Dublin Airport be.?

How much would this all cost?

The cost both monetarily and disruption wise of a Properly Run, Dedicated, bus service to the City Centre , properly marketed, traveller friendly, easily located, fare friendly, run by professionals would in my opinion,be almost as efficient as a rail service at a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the disruption.

salmocab

The thing about the metro is it serves huge areas not just the airport, the airport is a welcome bonus on the route, this is what will get it built eventually not the airport itself.

building something to just the airport like a dart spur or whatever is pie in the sky, the route needs to work for a huge portion of the population.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946737#Comment_118946737

Indeed, of course,but when.

What I am trying to say is the connectivity by other than car transport from Dublin City to the airport is not as poor as some seem to think.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946781#Comment_118946781

It’s going to be another 10 years I’d say. No, buses are useable but not fast enough and too prone to ever increasing traffic issues.