Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

EI321

A planning application did go in recently for apron works beside hangar 6 and it shows a future hangar 7 nearby:

https://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00777761.pdf

https://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00778195.pdf

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492300#Comment_120492300

taxyway from Link 6 to 16/34 and parallel taxy lanes from Link 6 to Link 1.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496761#Comment_120496761

Presumably that will result in taxi routes to and from the North Runway that don't require taxiing on 16/34?

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497007#Comment_120497007

Yes, it’s to give multiple routing options.

However long term 16/34 will close and become a permanent taxiway. Apron taxiways will close and will be built over by new versions of Pier 2/3 and stands.

However plans change regularly so pinch of salt as usual.

Pete_Cavan

DAA has commenced the procurement process for the North Apron Hub Development;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/238909/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Detailed description:

This RFI is the first stage in the procurement process to identify a suitably experienced building Contractor to design, procure, construct, test and commission, put into service (including assisting the Contracting Authority with Operational Readiness and Airport Transfer) and undertake close-out activities for the NA development at Dublin Airport. 

Estimate value €190m.

trellheim

"However long term 16/34 will close and become a permanent taxiway" wont that restrict crosswind ops or are they getting out of that business

HTCOne

They've been flip flopping on that decision for years. Lots of opposition for obvious reasons.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503388#Comment_120503388

Correct…also note keyword is “Long term”.

There are agreed trigger points for its closure.

dublin12367

Any sign of DUB adding more stands/gates any time soon, particularly to the south? Seen a post the other day about new gates to the north of T1 to accommodate an extra 4m passengers a year. Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought the capacity issues were mainly in T2 with aircraft having to hold for a gate? Would it not make sense to expand there first?

L1011

There's three different sets of stands planned as well as more gates for Pier 1 in the shorter term projects. I don't know were Pier 5 - the extra gates and CBP for T2 - is in the pipeline

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547235#Comment_120547235

Thanks for the reply. Would you have any idea of the time frames for these three different sets or any images of what they may look like? Apologies if this has been discussed before earlier in the thread.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547801#Comment_120547801

Here's the simplified version:

https://www.dublinairport.com/docs/default-source/cip-2020/capital-investment-plan-industry-presentation.pdf?sfvrsn=2cc69c23_2

And the hideously complex:

https://www.dublinairport.com/docs/default-source/cip-2020/submission-to-regulator.pdf?sfvrsn=845c46bd_2

COVID has pushed everything out by two or more years, construction inflation will have caused some more slippage.

There is actually a mention of returning Pier B / New Pier 3 / 300 gates to CBP capable, they obviously were used for the old pre-inspection setup. But this would require more stands with bridges elsewhere in T1 for the full service airlines that currently use Pier B to go to.

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547877#Comment_120547877

Thanks for sending that on. I am quite surprised at the pace of the upgrades/expansions. I thought they would be a lot quicker as they are badly needed now.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548036#Comment_120548036

Massive losses in 2020/21 plus predictions that it would take years to get back to 2019 levels will have made it impossible for any board to justify continuing with big expenditure - we're lucky the runway wasn't stopped!

2023 passenger figures will probably exceed 2019 as it stands.

dublin12367

A lot of articles calling for Terminal 3 at Dublin, including one from Pilot Union Boss Evan Cullen. Thoughts on this -likelihood of it?

L1011

Never going to happen in the form those people are calling for (terminal with a different operator, different access etc etc).

The McEvaddys have a lot of people convinced its a great idea but its and exceptionally, exceptionally bad one.

If there's a T3, it'll be run by the DAA as part of the existing setup - it won't be a Copenhagen CPH Go type shed for LCCs. But an extension of T2, and an extension and reconfiguration of T1 are going to happen before anything else.

HTCOne

I've seen calls for it to be a privately operated enterprise. I understand the desire for this, however I am opposed. The DAA in the good times makes a profit. They pay tax on this profit to the government, as does any business. However as a state enterprise, they additionally pay a dividend on this profit to their their shareholder, namely the government. Whilst a privately operated enterprise will still pay taxes on their profits, the dividends would go to the private sector.

Remember what happened at Eircom, and observe what happened at NATS, Royal Mail and the Train operators in the UK.

I think a third terminal is needed in the medium term, ideally built at the far western end of the airfield between the thresholds for 10L/10R, with satellites/toast racks constructed as and when required moving east towards the tower, but part of the DAA for the above mentioned reasons.

Chris_5339762

I think they should try and integrate it more, the last thing you need is Dublin having its T3 miles away from everything and a complete pain to use, like Heathrow where T4 is just in a stupid place. T5 is somewhat understandable, but T4 is just daft.

HTCOne

If you put it anywhere near the 2 existing terminals, it will interfere with aircraft movements like T2 does currently for 28L. It will also run out of space for expansion within a very short time. So that's exactly what the DAA will likely do.

A metro with one combined stop for T1 and T2 and a separate stop or shuttle train for T3 at the Western end is more cost effective. Doing it like T5 at Heathrow future proofs the airport for several decades. It is the most efficient layout for aircraft movements.

MICKEYG

To me, the most obvious location for extra gates is the west apron.

You then need to decide if you need a terminal there too or can you expand the existing facilities to cater for more passengers. I think you can expand, in my experience the lack of gates is the big thing, space for passengers seems ok to me. T1 is the most crowded but there is scope to do more there.

A new terminal to the west means more road access, new bus routes, change or add on to metro etc.

HTCOne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590566#Comment_120590566

A terminal on the West Apron requires all those things too. Roads etc would need to come in from the West between the runways. All those new roads and car parks would prevent any satellites in an westward direction, preventing further expansion. LHR knew what they were doing when they put T5 where it is.

And that brand new Tower would be in the way on the Western apron....moving the ATC facility would be a 9 figure sum alone.

Blut2

DAA do an exceptional job (a few covid related bumps aside), DUB is a very well well run airport. Theres absolutely no justification for some sort of privately run terminal, all it would do is lower standards and/or siphon off profits.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590616#Comment_120590616

A privately run and financed terminal would of course retain profits. But this would largely be a necessary return on capital, which the public sector (DAA) would not have to finance. "Siphoning off" can give a very misleading picture.

MICKEYG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590606#Comment_120590606

I was saying that we would put the new gates out west and leave the terminal (with some expansion) where it is. That would mean no new ground side infrastructure.

Hopefully the tunnel they have planning for could be used for a people mover.

dublin12367

If T3 was to be built by daa on the west side, how easy would it be to buy all the land required?

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594101#Comment_120594101

I would assume a CPO could be used once all normal channels have been exhausted.

The private terminal would never happen as the DAA would just not agree to allowing access to any of the current airfields assets (taxiways etc).

T3 will happen, quicker than people think. DAA are currently sweating all options for extra stand and capacity on the east side as that is what they will be required to do by the IAA (old CAR)before being allowed consider a massive spend on T3.

The ATC facility won’t need to move, that has been designed in to the future T3 and surrounds.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590728#Comment_120590728

Not certain what you're getting at there but DAA funds its infrastructure from its own resources, not the taxpayer.

Phen2206

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590616#Comment_120590616

Are you being sarcastic regarding DUB being a well run airport? I certainly wouldn't say that myself. I use it frequently and I could spend hours here listing issues both inside the terminals and out on the ramp. daa can learn a lot from other operators. Granted I do accept they are constantly denied permission to increase pax charges which doesn't help good service provision at present and going forward but there are many things which don't depend on additional funding which could be done better.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608726#Comment_120608726

You seem to be an airport worker?

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608726#Comment_120608726

No, I'm not being remotely sarcastic. I fly 100 odd times a year and outside of the richer parts of Asia DUB is one of the best airports of its size that I fly through.

Which airports of similar size do you think are better run, and why?