Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

FR738

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120862534#Comment_120862534

I think they’re meant for other European short haul in T1 (AF LH BA etc) to free up space down near T2 for the transatlantics that have limited space around T2 and the 300 gates

HTCOne

Is it just hangar 1 being demolished? I remember the rigmarole around Ryanair forcing SRT to give up that hangar years ago.

Pete_Cavan

DAA last week issued a tender for South Apron Hub Construction

https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=2044240

DESCRIPTION:

The South Apron Hub (SAH) development forms part of the overall North Apron and South Apron Hub (NASAH) programme of works, which comprises a series of transformation projects to facilitate operational efficiency improvements and capacity enhancement at Dublin Airport.

Rather surprisingly, documents are available to download including indicative drawings. Volume 1 states the scope as;

4.12 The scope of this project comprises the design, procurement, construction, testing and commissioning and putting into service a number of strategic assets to the Southern end of the Dublin Airport Campus, within the “live” operational airport environment. These assets will include:

• The provision of a new passenger pier (Pier 5), complete with aircraft stands - 4 Code E MARS / 8 Code C contact stands, connected via fixed links and nodes. Key features of the proposed pier include: flexibility between CBP (Customs and Border Protection) enabled and non-CBP operations; direct links and associated integration to the US Customs and Border Protection facility (the US Customs and Border Protection facility will be developed separately and is the subject of a separate procurement process); and provision of apron level bus gates.

• Construction of a new dual Code E taxiway to the South Apron Airfield.

• Development of 9 narrow body remote aircraft stands, including two tow-on wide body MARS stands.

• Construction of a new remote Passenger Boarding Zone serving the proposed remote stands.

• The provision of a new Security Gatepost.

• Associated infrastructure works including airfield civils, utilities, drainage and surface water attenuation.

• Enabling works comprising demolitions of existing buildings and structures, service diversions and provision of construction logistics facilities.

• Operational Readiness and Transfer (ORAT) Support.

The existing cargo area will be relocated under a separate contract to allow for the construction of the new Pier 5.

II.2.6) Estimated value Value excluding VAT: [400000000] Currency: EUR (for framework agreements or dynamic purchasing systems – estimated total maximum value for the entire duration of this lot)

II.2.7) Duration of the contract, framework agreement or dynamic purchasing system Duration in months: or Duration in days: or Start: (dd/mm/yyyy) 05/01/2025 / End: (dd/mm/yyyy) 31/12/2031 

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864471#Comment_120864471

Do you know if they will have airbridges?

FR738

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120885048#Comment_120885048

https://www.idom.com/en/project/new-north-dock-at-dublin-airport/

Looks like they will

Murph85

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-airport-us-customs-expansion-denied-6131611-Jul2023/

of course they refuse it lol! The transport farce is a government issue, maybe build a metro to the place and more bus routes... holding it up , indefinitely as the council would like ?, is a joke...

L1011

The only time I've seen issues with the roads around the airport were when the Guards weren't removing the fascist protestors from the roundabout like they should have

Murph85

I agree. Duboin is gridlocked with traffic, particularly in the winter , but there is no issue major issue out at the airport... also how about building proper free flow interchanges etc entering the airport if they are concerned about congestion?

SeeMoreBut

Where are they going to build it. At the airport roundabout?

john boye

So on that basis they could block pp for any works that could help increase not just passenger numbers but the passenger experience too?

Kermit.de.frog

Doesn't make any sense but they can go to An Bord Pleanala.

The airport roundabout should be made in to a flyover. Don't know if plans exist for that yet.

EI321

I'd imagine ABP will grant it.

bikeman1

How can FCC block the expansion of CBP, but have little say on the size of aircraft (EI and FR getting larger aircraft) or the number of flights operating to or from the airport which are ACTUAL drivers of traffic to the airport?

Maybe FCC should be facilitating the growth of public transport options to and from the airport? Safe cycling routes to Swords and Santry (both under the remit of FCC) with eBikes would be a great start for many workers and users of the airport.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120919361#Comment_120919361

I agree with the 2nd paragraph entirely.

On the first m, technically they do in a way. If memory serves me correctly there is a movement cap or a pax number cap. The daa technically can’t go above that till there is sufficient road and public transport capacity.

In one sense it’s logical but then the application of it is laughable. The CBP extension for one makes sense. It in itself isn’t going to directly bring additional passengers, it’s just an improvement scheme to make current passenger throughput flow better and have less impact on the rest of the airports operations.

IALPA objecting is laughable. How can they object to something that their members will have daily experience of passengers being stuck in queues and delaying flights !

Sometimes those within the system really don’t help themselves. All very well for pilots to think it’s ok when they sail through themselves, but if they had that privilege removed and had to stand like everyone else they’d be the first to complain about not enough investment etc etc.

bikeman1

Yes, I thought I was imagining things when I saw IALPA were the sole objectors to it! What has that got to do with Irish airline pilots? Must be a way to get back at the daa or something.

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921606#Comment_120921606

Can you please link the IALPA objection text?

LiamaDelta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921606#Comment_120921606

Leverage in other areas....we won't object if..... They object to lot of developments under the guise of being experts in the safety of operations.

Economics101

A cap on total numbers (x million per year) makes no sense. If an extra million passengers use the airport at relatively slack times of the day or year, that should not be a significant problem. If they were to turn up a peak periods, it would be a totally different matter.

I think that the planners are sometimes little more than control freaks.

awec

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/08/02/dublin-airport-operator-ordered-to-restrict-night-time-flights/

The operator of Dublin Airport has been ordered to reduce the number of night-time flights from its new north runway, after Fingal County Council ruled it had breached the conditions of its planning permission.

The gist of the article is that they can't average more than 65 flights between 11pm and 7am.

Blut2

Thats annoying, and obviously shouldn't be a thing. But on the plus side if they have 6 weeks to adjust from now (or very recently) it will only come in after the summer peak is over for the year at least.

Hopefully they'll be able to get it removed before the next peak in December.

Murph85

Can abp overturn it? Seriously, tough ****, you live near an airport and chose to move there , I'm telling you , if the aircraft were silent , they would still be complaining.... fingal County Council pathetic power plays, are not a national issue. DAA should just breach the conditions and force national government to sort the issue...

bikeman1

This has to be strenuously objected to by the DAA. It puts the viability of operations at the Dublin base for all airlines at risk, if they can’t land late into the evening on return from Europe and then the early wave of arrivals in the morning.

That coupled with the early wave of departures, those times are very much needed and are ONLY off the South runway the same has been the case for the last 20 years.

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929325#Comment_120929325

That is disgraceful from Fingal. I noticed the daa have looked for information on this decision to come to a compromise? Surely that will mean it will be delayed/overturned? Fingal seem to have a big issue with the daa currently and I wouldn’t be surprised if they reject the planned capacity expansion from 32m to 40m. Must be someone from Shannon in charge at Fingal!!

EchoIndia

Just for come actual context, I had a look at FR24 planned movements for 2300-0655 tonight. I doubt there is too much variation from day to day in the summer, and it comes out with:

Arrivals

2300-0000: 21

0000-0155: 24

0200-0700: 14

Total 59

Departures

2300-0000: 1

0000-0600: 21

0600-0700: 32

Total 54

(I think a few cargo movements are not captured in the FR24 advance listing.)

So that's a total of around 113 (say 120) planned movements in the period as against the permitted 65 - not too far off double the cap - so there would need to be quite a reduction in activity to come within the new limit. The volume of very late arrivals and running for almost two hours after midnight is noteworthy and to me seems to be greater than in previous years (though I could be wrong).

It will be interesting to see how this gets resolved, as the political and public appetite for unrestricted levels of activity during the night is probably not there for a range of reasons, and many major European airports already have either overnight curfews or strict limits on movement levels.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929884#Comment_120929884

Forgive my ignorance as I'm a bit behind on the issue but wouldn't arrivals & departures on the new runway (which this letter relates to) be minimal on the North runway as it isn't in use generally between 7am & 11pm as that's it current operating hours unless the south runway is closed for maintenance.

I could be completely wrong as it's not an issue I'm up to date on but it all appears to be on operations on the North runway which only operates 7am - 11pm

dublin12367

Even if they brought in a restriction of flights between 12am and 6am of say 65 that would be fairer. You have to remember Dublin is an hour behind most of Europe so for business purposes it’s important as many flights get out at 6am as possible as they are already an hour behind. Also, if the 5:45- 06:55 flights have to depart later, it will cause a later return time back to Dublin reducing the amount of legs done by each aircraft per day. Not even taking into account the earlier finishing times at night. I would be of the opinion this could do untold damage to Dublin airport.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120929954#Comment_120929954

No for some reason the clown that approved the runway put in onerous restrictions to the planning which the daa are challenging. Restriction 5 imposed reductions on the entire nighttime operation even though the new runway isn’t in use.

It makes little sense as there was very little issue with the south runways night time ops for decades. Occasionally you would get complaints when they weren’t using it and used 16 or 34.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930000#Comment_120930000

Ah that explains it so. Thanks for that.

It'll be interesting to see how this goes. No doubt the DAA have the lawyers in looking at it all.

I see they're asking ABP for a decision within 6 weeks now & asking gov to ensure they get any resources required

Noxegon

It'd be much more sensible to have a noise quota – perhaps only allowing quieter aircraft to depart during night time hours.

I'd be worried that a hard policy like this would result in diversions because the allowed quota has been used for the day. A scheduled 10:45pm arrival running half an hour late (or beyond) isn't unusual.

moonshy2022

Ignoring the lunacy of the night time movement cap.

This might force Aer Lingus to look at night stopping more of their short haul aircraft that they probably already should be doing. They are one of the only mainline carriers that insists on having nearly every single one of their short haul aircraft come back to base every night.

Personally the only flights leaving prior to 0700 should be going to the likes of Heathrow/Frankfurt/Paris/Amsterdam etc to allow onwards connections. Its crazy seeing some the destinations having flight go from 0545-0700 by both FR and EI. Who needs to leave Dublin to get to Nimes at 0650, Tarbes at 0620 or Bristol at 0545. Some of scheduling is just bonkers, arriving in to Bristol at 0635….why just why?!