Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

shamrocka330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300855#Comment_121300855

Yes but the DAA must also take responsibility for this as they have been too slow to respond to capacity requirements and are now in this mess.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301734#Comment_121301734

Sorry, yes absolutely correct. Multiple points of failure was my point, it’s not just on the DAA.

Maybe the entire system needs an overhaul. Remember the DAA weren’t allowed build the terminal or the runway till they were saturated in T1 and the 28 was stuffed and hit a certain capacity. That’s still the way with everything CAR/IAA determines. You aren’t allowed have more till either A is worn out or B people can’t get in because there is no more space for them. It’s a sh1t system, why can’t the next phase be triggered at 75% and growth curve observed so next stage is delivered at 95-100% ?!

Dunmoreroader

Jesus, the blinkers on here that the solution is spend more in Dublin. There's a commercial airport 90 minutes away (WAT) with planning permission for a runway extension to accept jets that could be developed out for chump change in comparison to the sums required at DUB, and take some of the pressure off DUB, but the political will is not there.

Balanced regional development is good, not just for under-invested regions, but also for over-heated centres.

JCX BXC

If WAT could so enormously relieve Dublin of pressure, and all these waiting airlines could start their routes, why has the same not happened in Shannon, Cork and Knock?

Noxegon

90 minutes from DUB to WAT? Perhaps by helicopter, but not a hope by road. You might do it in 2 hours at 2:00am.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121305388#Comment_121305388

It makes absolutely no sense to develop a secondary airport 90min away from the island's primary airport. We don't have the traffic, population size, or geographical/distance requirements, for more than one major airport and at most 2 smaller feeder regional ones in North-Western Connacht/ South-Western Munster.

Every leson from the last 80 years of aviation project management would suggest we'd be better off putting all of our resources, and as many flights as possible, into DUB. And developing the connective infrastructure to get there on the ground from the rest of island as much as possible while we're at it.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121305388#Comment_121305388

If WAT made that much sense, someone would be in there with props or regional jets right now.

They aren't.

moonshy2022

Hey let’s develop Baldonnel, we haven’t had that one in a while.

or

Build an airport in the midlands, around somewhere like Moate 🤦🏻‍♂️

Dunmoreroader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121306989#Comment_121306989

I meant from Dublin to Waterford Airport i.e. from Dublin county boundary - hour & a half no bother, and not at 2am unless you drive a Reliant Robin!

Van.Bosch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121305388#Comment_121305388

It’s a actually the opposite - the political will is there, the business case isn’t.

lisasimpson

I strongly believe the regionals have the potential to help Dublin Airport with the capacity issues. Its not a good look international capping our capitals airport along with the poor public transport options when you arrive in Dublin.

Cork and Shannon are more than capable to handle more flights. They could better serve some of the European hubs to take the pressure off Dublin. They shouldn't be seen as competition to Dublin but more as a complament to it . Apart from connecting via London not much options,and cork has amsterdam too. Need to get airport authorities, transport providers to make it easier to get to them.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121316254#Comment_121316254

But again it all comes back to the market itself…. If there was a business case for regionals to fly from SNN/ORK etc they would! But they’re not, because there isn’t!

There isn’t capacity issues in Dublin per se, it’s an arbitrary cap which is still a few years away from being reached. As nice as SNN and ORK are to fly from, especially Shannon, there isn’t a single European hub can be better served from them as of now.

lisasimpson

Its v easy to dismiss with the line there isnt a case there but at the moment is a he'll of a lot easier to get the bus to Dublin airport from the munster region. than to either Cork or Shannon. Some of it is down to timing of flights as well. Ask anyone in the regions. So it v easy to dismiss o there's no business case. I know it was starting of a low base but Shannon had the biggest recovery turnaround since covid this year of the Irish airports It's a he'll of a lot easier for me to get to Dublin airport by public transport from nenagh than it is to Shannon. Same for anyone from Galway using the airport.

Some routes have not returned post covid yet. Iberria summer service vork to Madrid was busy whenever I used it, lots looking for the return of Cork Glasgow too. They are 2 of the top of my head. A bit of knocking heads together could can help solve some of Dublins issue in the short term while waiting on planning etc. Make it easier for passengers to be able to use regionals would be a big help

EchoIndia

The first step is having the flights on a sufficient scale. Then the ground transport options become more viable. Looking back, that's what happened with DUB. The odd additional airline service likely isn't enough to make a regular bus from Nenagh to Shannon viable. The airport would need to have flights running at scale for hours at a time.

It has taken decades for Dublin to build up to the present level of activity and the primary factor is which airlines decide to operate what routes and at what times. There's nothing to stop either the Irish carriers or the major others such as AF, LH, KL or SK branching out to open routes to the Irish regions, but on the face of it the appetite to do so is limited to nil.

HTCOne

The push for regional airports also completely destroys any hub model. If you are getting even a few % of passengers for a route off connections, then that can be the difference between a route being viable or not. Ditto for cargo. These new routes might make yet more connecting routes viable. It is organic growth if managed correctly and certain other factors are in your favour.

These otherwise impossible routes bring in tourists and drive business, which creates jobs.

Diluting these flights into smaller regional airports in turn would kill off routes dependent on the connections lost, and prevent new routes in the future that simply will never serve Shannon or Cork.

Look at the explosion in North American routes served from DUB since the ending of the Shannon stopover also. You can't force people to go where they don't want to go, they'll just vote with their feet and either avoid Ireland altogether or just hit DUB via LHR like they used to do.

bikeman1

Dublin Airport is one of most vital pieces of infrastructure being a very international country which is an island nation off the West coast of Europe. Fingal CC should treat it as such and their their fingers out and sort yet another ridiculous planning issue.

If not, the government should remove powers from them as it is far too important.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121316725#Comment_121316725

In fairness you are making the assumption that people arriving in to Dublin want to travel outside of Dublin or Leinster. Imagine for a moment you wanted to fly to Paris, but you were told you had to fly to Nantes and take a 3-4 hour TGV ride to Paris to start your short weekend trip. Now I’m sure you will come up with some argument to support your side but realistically people just won’t do it.

I’ve said it before on this topic, a long term plan isn’t ideal for a short term problem. Dublin airport will get its cap increased to 40 million soon. A bigger deal has been made of this “cap” than needs to be.

Using the PR media line of “Shannon had the best recovery” is just 🤦🏻‍♂️ sorry. Come back to me when Shannon recovers 25 million passengers and not just 1 million. As you said it is a low base to start with Shannon even tried to say it was a 4000%+ improvement, come on folks we are grown ups.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121316725#Comment_121316725

Shannon has a significant distortion to its passenger figures, namely "transit" passengers that are primarily foreign military personnel. These amount to 6-7% of the total pax in a year; but when there's war(s) on it's higher. And by feck are there wars on now.

Also, we'll need the full 2023 numbers to see whether the "best recovery" thing is a PR puff or not - they may not be that much ahead of 2019 even with the military pax, and they aren't the only airport ahead of 2019.

Economics101

This thread has become a bit surreal. Is there any other place in the world where a Local Authority, with responsibility for roads and physical planning has impose cap on the annual number of passengers (not number of flights, or daily peaktime maximum)?

Ireland's planning system is a crazy farce.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121317988#Comment_121317988

Not only that, but a local authority who a vast portion of its constituencies, are employed and benefit both directly and indirectly from its activities.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121253617#Comment_121253617

I dont think the time on that post was right actually. I was never ever in that office before 7am, so dont see how the post could be 6:40am. I dont even think I ever got out of bed before 6:30am either come to think of it. I cant remember the exact time i posted that post at but it wasnt 6:40am for sure.

lisasimpson

I'm not making any assumptions. Speaking as someone who has lived and worked in Cork for over a decade and now living in midwest. Its crazy the amount of passengers that get the aircoach from the quays in Cork or the greenbus from Limerick. I've even heard of colleagues in Limerick get the green bus up to fly to London as it was easier to get there than to Shannon for early flights.some summer routes in Cork don't serve the full summer season. Was annoying when the madrid route was there it started late May ended 2nd wk of sept. As I said before the regionals with joint up thinking could complament Dublin and not dilute things as someone stated. Dublin will always be the player with the long haul expansion and needs the supports to achieve this.I am also relistic of what they could offer. For example I wouldn't be one of those people who shout Cork needs transatlantic. That one does my head in to be honest

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121317988#Comment_121317988

Schiphol, actually. Where the government (ok, not the local authority) are putting in blanket caps to actually reduce the number of flights allowed per year. KLM are going bananas over it, but the Dutch government are going for it anyway to try to reduce the hub aspect of Schiphol - purely for green reasons and nothing else. It's absolutely bananas.

JCX BXC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121317848#Comment_121317848

To point out, these transit figures have massively reduced in recent years and have not seen a corresponding increase due to recent events.

In relation to other points, I don't think anyone is suggesting removing routes from Dublin and having them only available from regional airports, that wouldn't make any sense. Rather, duplication of these routes instead of continued frequency increases from DUB. If all routes stay in Dublin, I don't see how the growth of regionals would affect DUB's hub status. Saying it would seems very similar to the old arguments of how the Shannon stopover would decimate the Midwest.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121318918#Comment_121318918

Note that the Schiphol proposal is to restrict the number of flights, not passengers. There just might be some sense to this (if you are a Green), but restricting the numbers of passengers is bonkers.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319672#Comment_121319672

Cool. Who is going to run these flights as clearly the existing airlines have no interest in doibmng so?

EchoIndia

The great thing now too is that, with deregulation, there is much less scope for political interference in the market.

JCX BXC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320035#Comment_121320035

Did I touch a nerve?

I made the point above about lack of appetite, regionals aren't the answer to the capacity issues, but saying that having more flights from Cork,/Shannon would somehow damage Dublin's hubs status is pie in the sky sensational stuff.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320673#Comment_121320673

I haven't said a thing about damaging Dublin's hub status.

I've said airlines don't want to fly to regional airports. Because they clearly don't.

JCX BXC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320903#Comment_121320903

No, I was referencing other posts and explaining my post.

Airlines "clearly" do want to fly to regionals, as they have several million passengers every year.