Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121434609#Comment_121434609

Probably not but it would be a cul de sac if approached from the current perimeter road by Monks' Farm.

Dunmoreroader

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2023/12/04/waterford-airport-in-talks-with-ryanair-to-pretend-its-just-outside-dublin/

Sorted.

FR738

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461753#Comment_121461753

They’d call it Dublin South 😂

Almost as bad as ‘Frankfurt’ Hahn

Dunmoreroader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462644#Comment_121462644

Hahn had 1.3M passengers in 2022.....Achoo? methinks not. Stranger things have happened...NOC?

Economics101

There appears to be single-runway operation on 28R this morning. How long before 28L can be used as it was meant to be used? Excuses must be waaring a bit thin by now. Visibility 3500m hardly CAT III conditions (?)

Kermit.de.frog

Anyone know what they are doing here?

https://twitter.com/LovinDublin/status/1732766983618257032

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465271#Comment_121465271

You’ve got your runways the wrong way around.

What excuses ?

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468118#Comment_121468118

Sorry, I should have said 28L. As for excuses, the DAA and IAA must have some justification for the continuing limited capability of 28R/10L in moderately low visibility. Whather a real and proper justification or just an "excuse" is what we should know. After all the new runway cost a lot, and single-runway operation leads to delays and wasted fuel.

sparrowcar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468019#Comment_121468019

It's just maintenance on the walkway tower to pier 1.

sparrowcar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468136#Comment_121468136

Nothing to do with daa... its been with SRD for a year.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468246#Comment_121468246

I did mention the IAA as having something to do with this. For those who may not be aware, SRD is the Safety Regulation Division of the IAA.

I had some fun results when I tried Googling SRD 😊

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468019#Comment_121468019

I thought it was a pirate ship at first glance a couple of weeks back 😂

sparrowcar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468272#Comment_121468272

Apologies if my response was a bit short, I was standing in a queue at the shops 😀

Hotblack Desiato

Or "The Crimson Permanent Assurance" sketch from the start of Monty Python's The Meaning Of Life - given a good breeze that thing could sail off 😁

California Dreamer

Maybe not worthy of its own thread but tip and the hat and say well done and thank to Paul and the DubJet youtube channel for the recent live streaming. Top quality stuff.

Dublinflyer

It looks like the McEvaddy'a are going to try for a third terminal again. I'd love to know who his target airlines would be, I can't see Aer Lingus moving as they are so tight with the daa. The US airlines won't go as they would lose access to CBP, unless there was some very complicated way of moving people around. Would you want RyanAir as your only customer? It will be an interesting one to watch.

https://www.independent.ie/business/ulick-mcevaddy-outlines-his-plan-for-building-terminal-3-at-dublin-airport/a1150338841.html

L1011

They can try all they want but they cannot force access to the airfield so it's utterly pointless

The land doesn't even touch the airfield.

Noxegon

Building a terminal where they propose it is not a terrible idea.

However, without DAA on board, it's a waste of time and money.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482254#Comment_121482254

Ryanair would make the most sense from an operational point of view given a) their large number of flights to fill it by themselves and b) that they have a low % of connecting PAX.

That aside the idea is still totally bonkers, the only way for T3 to happen is in quite a few years time, on land owned by the DAA.

xper

Clearly the land parcel indicated in the Irish Independent article map does actually connect extensively to the airport lands or DAA-owned lands outside the current bondary, save for a public road, the rerouting or closure of which can be permitted even for privately-driven major developments.

The indicated location of the McEvaddy terminal is more or less where the DAA also see a future terminal accessed from the west being located as part of their own master plan (map below) - its the obvious location for such a development. However, the DAA see a western terminal with seperate road access very much as a far future element and their current plan just provides for reserving space for it. In the DAA plan, the intial use (still some way off) of the mid-field area foresees a large remote pier accessed from the existing terminals by underground connections.

One can make the arguement, as McEvaddy has for decades now, that a privately developed and run terminal may, through competition, be a benefit to the airport users and the state. But even if that arguement wins out, the development would have to be carried out with the collaboration and oversight of the authority responsible for the airport as a whole, the DAA, not to mention keep in line with long-term government policy. Otherwise you end up with a major national assest being deveoped piecemeal and ineficiently with one party's development prone to impinge or block the other's, possibly even deliberately.

Just on a practical level of good forward planning, its worth noting that the DAA have clearly improved their approach to incremental changes to the airport infrastructure with all new developments in recent years all carefully aligned to the overall masterplan (e.g., the proposed remote Apron 7 way off north west of the ATC tower would eventaully become part of the mid-field peir apron depicted below). Without access to the DAA's detailed plans, how is McEvaddy's planning application going to align with that? This stuff matters, placing a building 20 meters the wrong way can seriously compromise the future taxiway layout.

The idea of this private entity actually getting planning permission, and therefore taking over stategic national aviation policy in de facto collaboration with the local planning authority is bat-**** crazy. Fingal Co Co should have a field day with it (considering their zero-**** given attitude to DAA's submissions).

I presume this effort is ultimately actually an attempt to boost the sale price of the land by puttign some sort of notional meat on the bones of the whole western terminal idea.

moonshy2022

Touching or not it still won’t get them access to the airfield. It would be like someone building a gym beside the Aviva and saying to the Aviva stadium “I’m using that now”.

It’s nonsense and a nonsense idea and people really should stop wasting their time on the idea.

Is there any airport in the world where this practice actually works ? Clearly not as the McEvaddys would have pointed to it already. Before anyone suggests New York airport etc I think they are all owned by the Port authority and run by private companies, I may be wrong here. Either way they are very long standing agreements between two agreeing partners either way.

Dublinflyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482302#Comment_121482302

I think they have said that they will go to court over access, good luck with that. As another poster mentioned it’s probably all to drive up the land prices or force the daa to make more of an offer.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484653#Comment_121484653

Waste of time and money as there is no basis to win.

This is almost certainly happening as they didn't get high enough offers for the land and want to make it seem more viable. They won't get the permission

Pete_Cavan

Pretty big gamble by McEvaddy. They will spend a lot of money making a planning application (plus years of appeals regardless which way the decision goes) for likely limited increase in value (they also need a formal access agreement with DAA for that). If it is ultimately rejected, they will have destroyed much of the potential value of the land. Establishing a negative planning precedent would do more damage than getting planning would help the value of the land.

Going for a planning application probably means there won't be a sale this decade (unless they eventually accept what the DAA is willing to pay). They must be getting decent income from the land in the meantime.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485440#Comment_121485440

Is there mainly cattle on the land at the moment

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485527#Comment_121485527

Yes as tilling the land would attract large amounts of birds.

Dublinflyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484699#Comment_121484699

You know, normally I would agree with you on this but nothing shocks me anymore when it comes to decisions around the airport as there are too many authorities involved now that have an infulence. If it did go to court it would drag on and on for years and even then I would think any decision they come to would be a mixed bag of nothing and the cows will still have somewhere to hang out plane spotting. He might just be doing it to have a last pop at the daa as there is no love lost there. Maybe they are hoping the goverment will step in and buy the land. Either way it will be interesting to watch and see what the real agenda is.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485440#Comment_121485440

I'd say thats all pretty accurate apart from the "They must be getting decent income from the land in the meantime."

Its underutilized agricultural land currently. Thats not bringing in big bucks, or even medium bucks.

I'd hazard a guess that they'd get far more returns from even the DAA's low valuation offer if the money from that was placed in other investments in today's high interest rate environment. But doing that would require them to give up on their land hoarding scheme.

prunudo

What age are the McEvaddy's, surely they should just accept the daa offer and move on. As the saying goes, you can't take it with you. Greed is a terrible trait and the cause of many of the ills of the modern world.

L1011

Early 70s. Could have another 20 years