Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

sdanseo

National Infrastructure needs to be completely removed from local planning authorities. I've long regarded FCC as very good in terms of councils as a whole - compared to Dublin City Council they are much more clued in - but the noise bandwagon has taken off (heh) in entirely the wrong direction since 28R opened and it's not a good thing.

The process for disposing of frivelous moaning from militant NIMBYs should be sped up significantly. They are entitled to opine or object, but ultimately the needs of the state must come first and those delaying the planning process beyond reasonability need to be put in their place.

Blut2

The CSO just released statistics that 20% of the population of Ireland now in 2023 was born abroad. Are we condeming them, and their families, to never get to fly back to their countries of origin to visit their families? Or how about the hundreds of thousands of Irish expats abroad living in places like America who fly home to Ireland every year to visit family?

That topical point at this time of year is on top of all the many, very valid, economic arguments - isolated literal island on the periphery of Europe, FDI dependent economy, large number of jobs in aviation/transport, tourism industry etc - that have been covered in this thread repeatedly.

Most importantly theres the fact that the entire aviation industry here is responsible for 2.5% of our emissions. So even utterly gutting it by half, at massive cost to all the above, would reduce our emissions by a grand total of 1%. There are much easier, cheaper, and less damaging ways to achieve that 1% cut.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514641#Comment_121514641

You for real? What is the logic behind this ridiculous statement?

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516183#Comment_121516183

Some other things that are being talked about in terms of reducing climate emissions includes banning the sale of gas and oil boilers. They are already banned for new houses, but there's talk of an outright ban on replacements in existing homes before 2030. Whether it actually happens is one thing, but the fact that some people are thinking this way, suggests to me they are prepared to see some people freeze to death in their homes because the existing stock of housing isn't going to be retrofitted with decent insulation by 2030. When faced with that kind of a choice, cutting back on our foreign travel doesn't seem like such a bad option. Personally, I don't have a huge issue with the current level of traffic, and aviation (depending how you count it) is only 2.5% of our emissions, but proposing to increase those emissions by 25% is what's ridiculous.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1006/1409428-call-to-phase-out-oil-and-gas-boilers-before-2030/

prunudo

Thing is, there are 2 different issues here. On one hand its suggested not to increase numbers due to emissions and curtail our air travel. On the other hand, a green councillor is suggesting that the extra passengers should be spread around the country to the regional airports, so essentially screw the emissions argument.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515017#Comment_121515017

The elephant in the room, stomping everything to bits while we pretend not to notice, is agriculture.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517533#Comment_121517533

Circa 40% of our emissions last year, for vastly less economic, employment, and social benefit than the aviation sector with its 2.5%.

Asking our agricultural sector to reduce emissions by 1/20th would achieve twice as much as gutting our aviation sector by half...

Bussywussy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508068#Comment_121508068

And the aircraft in the background was genuinely a good bit away 🤣🤣🤣

L1011

Irish Times article on the McEvaddy land basically dumps the reality of the situation - they need to refinance nearly 40m secured on that land by next week - and implies that there are no other unconditional offers for the land than the Daa 75m. Everyone else bidding wants guaranteed airfield access which they simply aren't getting.

They'll be taking the 75m or not selling for another 30 years, they're the only plausible outcomes

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521042#Comment_121521042

I thought that was funny alright! It could be a departure from 28L, and if it is I really don’t know what they were expecting to happen when 28R opened….

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521130#Comment_121521130

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/12/21/dublin-airport-land-bidders-seek-runway-access/

For anyone curious.

Its great to see. In previous decades in Ireland the DAA would probably have been pressured by some recipient of a brown envelope to pay the extortionate €210mn.

The fact that they're sticking to their guns with the low bid, and will likely win out with it, is great evidence of good governance / how far we've come.

Captain_Crash

Interesting new EU agreement on transport includes an interesting item which could impact Dublin airport, in a good way

https://x.com/spielewert/status/1737174620149514725?s=46&t=0m7trGfU16lxXzyyGE6_gQ

Idbatterim

If I am not mistaken, modern aircraft, are becoming significantly quieter tan older ones? wont this put a huge dent in the noise issue? Also, even if these aircraft were silent and could run on solar powered panels, mounted on the planes, these gobshites would find another reason to object. Maybe the greens, could have prioritised speeding up dublin metro and the hundred million passengers a year it will take, rather than the drop in the ocean emissions in the scheme of thing, from aviation. Or how about later night luas services, reducing the need for as many taxis? not interested in the simple solutions it seems

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523005#Comment_121523005

If DUB had long distance, high speed rail connections to Cork/Limerick/Galway/Belfast it would be absolutely fantastic for the island. But even to Dublin would be a great start..

bilbot79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488198#Comment_121488198

'I' m not selling it for LESS THAN IT'S WORTH!! '

(this evening' s broadcast was brought to you by Celtic Tiger Productions)

Irish Steve

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523005#Comment_121523005

Major airports, dealing with more than 12 million passengers annually, will have to be connected by long-distance rail

With the morons that are presently running things, it won't happen in my lifetime, and my kids will be lucky if it happens in theirs. and that's before the despicable bigger morons in the green party get to screw things up again.

Even more frightening is the prospect of having no choice and being forced to use electricity to heat, light and cook with, I can still remember the nightmare of living through the bitter and divisive struggle of Maggie Thatcher and Arthur Scargill crossing swords, which meant 16 hours a day rolling power cuts, I swore I would never again be dependent on single fuel for everything, but now, if these idiots that think they understand things get their way, I may have no choice, and even worse, I won't be able to get off the island either because their stupidity will mean even more restrictions on things like travel.

It's not often I am happy to be over 70, but looking at some of the short sighted and blinkered ideology and ideas that are current policy. I'm glad I won't be facing into the future that they're planning, they are so incredibly short sighted and lacking in vision, too often, it seems like the only thing they care about is making sure they get their pensions.

Captain_Crash

@Irish Steve sometimes I think that if we met for a pint….. we’d get on great! I’d be even harsher on the dipsticks in the Greens but I don’t want to get banned 😂

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542294#Comment_121542294

Excellent post, & very well said.

Karppi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542294#Comment_121542294

The main issue is that there's really nobody near/at the top who actually has real operational experience in running an airport, or what's involved on the safety and security side - the so called "Hygiene factors'. As opposed to thinking it's a shopping mall with a runway. There's quite a lot of expertise in the organisation, it simply doesn't have a voice because it's too far from the top

trellheim

daa do not believe it is their job to help with other transport modes like rail and bus.

They are perfectly happy to stick coach operators in a rainy and windswept open concourse , and charge them for the privilege

They are perfectly happy to artificially limit the number of SPSVs that can pick up at the airport leading to brutal waits for taxis at the worst possible time ( 0100-0200 )

By comparison the M11 from Istanbul to the new airport first section is open , reaching TBM boring speeds of 1200 m /month (10 TBMs) 34k first section and built in only 5 years or so fully underground . When was the last time you saw the CEO of daa agitating for much better public transport connectivity instead of bleating about car parks ?

In the recent tender they said if you dont cough up we'll stick you in Zone 16 with the other plebs ( see https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-airport-aiming-to-get-more-passengers-to-travel-by-bus-1543226.html) if you doubt that daa is nothing else

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557480#Comment_121557480

While I would agree about the recent tender for bus stop access, I would advise that you have a look at the recent planning application that has been submitted by daa.

That involves a completely new bus station being built, with 29 nose to kerb bays, proper covered waiting facilities, retail units and it does away with the appalling layout that is currently in situ.

Zone 16 will be no more.

Idbatterim

Can they not build a proper roofed comfortable area, accessible by staying under cover totally? By the time the bloody thing is built, most buses will be electric anyway....

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558107#Comment_121558107

That is exactly what is in the planning application.

Idbatterim

Great. So zero walking out into the wet before re emerging indoor soaking at the bus ? Sounds like a ridiculous question, but its a ridiculous country...

trellheim

I've read the tender and thanks for the headsup

1. Its not a full canopy - only a medium cover for buses
2. There's no doors like you'd see in Busaras so open to the wind and rain to howl in under the canopy
3. very few seats in the waiting area provided for 29 bays express, local, regional, the lot , if you've ever sat in Heathrow bus station you'll know what i mean . Almost no work has been done in the design for people who might have to wait up to a couple of hours for their bus, or more. ( try and find any analysis of the types of passengers who might use the bus station in the application , again apart from the bare minimum PRM considerations )
4. Your back is to a multi storey car park also mostly open to the elements
5. All T2 bus stops will be moved to this, which is out the back of the existing T1 car park leaving you to hoof it to T2 (not joking - look it up )
6. No information desk planned, just 5 ticket machines to do the cead mile failte
7. People will continue to just sit in the atrium to get out of the weather

daa as I mentioned above doing the absolute bare minimum box ticking exercise here and I'd say it'll be a hefty charge to the operators to use.

L1011

If you're waiting hours, you stay in the terminals which have seating, heating, toilets, food and bars for the bulk of the hours

moonshy2022

What no butler service either ? This is unbelievable. I mean do I have to carry my own bags as well ! Heavens above.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559820#Comment_121559820

It’s not a tender - it’s a planning application.

So there is scope to object and request that they do put in additional changes.

It’s still a significant improvement on the current setup.

p_haugh

They do note that the ends of each bay can be upgraded to be fully enclosed, but it seems like that won't be what's initially built

xper

The Ground Transportation Centre element of this planning application appears to be in the earliest stages of design and I think it is likely to go through some extensive changes before being finalised. I suspect it is only being included here as a necessary consideration for the overall airport capacity increase and if it was a standalone application, it wouldn't have been submitted yet.The documentation around it notes that it is subject to various reviews covering design, drainage, fire safety, accessibility, pedestrian modelling, roof access, lighting. No mention of the NTA that I can see. I would think the nose-in parking arrangement is a challenge to accessibility for wheelchair users on many coach models.

The other thing that isn't clear to me is whether Bus Connects services are expected to use this nose-in parking facility which would be utterly unsuitable, especially for non-terminating routes, or will be moved to the parallel stops immediately outside T1. The language on the latter's map suggests that the layout outside T1 is to be prioritised for the articulated car park busses.

Other elements...

The proposed move of the T1 security check up a level is a royal pain the arse. It doesn't really seem to provide a lot more throughput. The one good thing is it forces them to replace the rather poor T1 Lounge. The final layout has a big undetailed area marked 'International Departure Lounge' on Level 2 where the current security check and a large chunk of retail is located. I am not sure what this is. Is it an actual lounge as passengers would regard it or is this now DAA-speak for shopping facilities. It seems totally out of character for them to get rid of such a large area of retail.

The T1 changes have the phases of construction set out showing how the security check service will be maintained throughout. I don't see an equivalent plan for the US Border & Customs expansion. Are they just going to withdraw the service for a few months and make passengers go through it stateside?

The other thing that struck me from this application is that the new Apron 7 is going to be a lot bigger than I was expecting and the provision of a dispatchers building and other elements hints that cargo handling may be moved there from the west apron?