Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122360286#Comment_122360286

NIMBYS!

They must be the most well known residents group in the country with all their objections to anything that goes on at the airport.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361388#Comment_122361388

Thanks for a good summary of the situation. Basically there are two underlying causes of this mess: (i) the lack of suitable ILS for 10L for even moderately poor weather; (ii) the somewhat ridicluous planning conditions for the use of 10L for take offs, leading to single runway operations and heaven know how much delay, cost and emissions.

Take offs from 10L would pass over Portmarnock about 4 miles from the end of 10L. Take offs from 10R are about 1 mile to the South. If there such an earth-shattering difference, especially for daytime operations?

Its basically a big public scandal, and not being treated as such.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122336645#Comment_122336645

I think your anger at CCPC might be pointed in the wrong direction. It says in the linked article that daa never asked them about leasing the site. They're a statutory authority, they respond to what is put before them. If daa don't bother to ask, they can't rule on it. The article also says that daa confirmed they don't want to lease it.

It's worth remembering that CCPC's job is to ensure competition law is followed. Their job is not to make sure that people can drive to the airport. It is the job of daa to provide parking and access to public transport. It is Fingal's job to zone appropriately and it is the government's job to provide adequate public transport. This problem was not created by CCPC.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361957#Comment_122361957

Single runway ops is nothing to do with lack of ILS or planning.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361044#Comment_122361044

yes they are, which winds the Ashbourne folk up immensely.

Also, ATC operations on the south runway are Dublin ATC's bread and butter, so it's natural they revert to known procedures…

This is meant to improve over time (you don't just stick in a runway and expect max capacity in all weathers)…. Assurance evidence needs to be built to show ATC can control safely and effectively. This may be 30 mins to 1 hr here and there for each type of restriction…. building up to 1 hr, then 2 hrs etc…

This then needs to be reviewed and procedures updated iteratively… so will be a year or two before you see the north runway used effectively.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362053#Comment_122362053

In that case has it got to do with either lack of suitably trained staff, or navigion aids and/or ILS which is not fully commissioned? Given that it's about 2 years since the North runway opened, I'm not very impressed with this performamce.

Any more excuses?

dublin12367

Planning permission for the north runway states in easterly winds 10R “shall be used in preference” over 10L for departures, and 10L used for landings, then if weather on a particular date like yesterday dictates that 10L is not approved for landings in the conditions but would be ok for departures, surely that would then over rule and satisfy the planning as it’s an operational need to use 10L for departures rather than just a preference?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363304#Comment_122363304

I’m open to correction, but my understanding is that the issue is related to maintaining dual runway ops once conditions pass a certain point, not the actual runway itself.

3d4life

"Take offs from 10L would pass over Portmarnock about 4 miles from the
end of 10L. Take offs from 10R are about 1 mile to the South."

The above is not usual as the prevailing wind is from the SW.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361747#Comment_122361747

Off Topic, but that award goes to a group of 8 or 10 people in malahide….

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122363526#Comment_122363526

And that guy in Ongar (my sexist assumption is that the complainant is male)

Bussywussy

North Runway closed again today, pathetic incompetence

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122366340#Comment_122366340

To-day, winds are North West and 28L is the single runway in use. Why is 28R not used for take offs: what are the weather conditions which justify this? Or are there some other valid reasons?

Real answers please, not excuses.

sparrowcar

Completion of handback works on TWY N1 & N7 due to new ground charts becoming active this morning.

IngazZagni

I wonder why these works weren't carried out overnight.

Has the airport given a timeline for when the north runway will be approved for conditions with low cloud and visibility first and then LVP conditions? We are rapidly approaching the 2nd anniversary of the new runway.

EchoIndia

28R ops resuming shortly

jwm121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122360157#Comment_122360157

Are these incentives going to make a difference? Will we soon see Hainan A330s and 787s at Cork? Although, their flights are still on sale 2 weekly for the winter season even though it says they got no slots.

Hotblack Desiato

I doubt you're being entirely serious but Cork is very runway constrained.

davebuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122361965#Comment_122361965

No anger on my side to be honest but I do find the whole timing be it the initial decision or appeals to be painfully slow across the likes of DCC,FCC,CCPC and ABP. Look at the parking for example the final decision is too late for another operator to get involved at this late stage in 2024. Just my opinion but surely therer's room for improvement while at the same time maintaining decent standards!

dublin12367

https://m.independent.ie/business/traffic-blocks-plans-for-high-tech-industrial-park-close-to-dublin-airport/a950919038.html

Not strictly infrastructure related but the above article states Fingal CC have rejected industrial park due to road capacity…

“would negatively contribute to a reduction in operational efficiency of the strategic road network,” said the local authority in its decision to refuse the new plans.”

The cynic in me would think the infrastructure application could be liable to the same fate from Fingal…

sandbelter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122377780#Comment_122377780

I didn't want to raise this whilst the strike was on and risking of being accused or management scaremongering.

But this just raises my concerns the long term damage to Dublin airport and Ireland generally by the cap may already be done.

What there is little discussion on this site in the context of Aer Lingus in particular is the announced Spanish government's plan to make Madrid Europe's largest airport, and what this means for Dublin. Bear in mind, hitherto had shown the best growth profile in IAG.

But, earlier this year the Spanish government announced plans to raise the capacity of Madrid airport with an aim to increase it's capacity to 90 mil pa, meanwhile Dublin argues about jump in an airport capacity to….. maybe 36 million??? Hardly a growth story…it seems at times planners are there to ensure Dublin Airport never loses the opportunity to make sure it loses an opportunity.

In Madrid, the signs of change is already there, and its not just IAG.

Ryanair has already leased the hanger it's struggling to build in Dublin.

https://aviacionline.com/2024/01/ryanair-leases-largest-hangar-at-madrid-barajas-airport/

The shift of the 321XLR to Iberia may prove more of a turning point than we realise, the point where IAG decided to double down on Madrid for it's growth a hub by connecting Latin America with Europe and Asia, Europe with Africa and North America and v.v.

Aircraft are 25 year assets, and investors need to know the can use them for that purpose. Incremental increases by 4 million won't cut it….if it's announced…based on the growth we've seen for the first month this year, Dublin would push hard against a potential 36 million limit within months of it going into place.

IAG's management has better things to do with its time than argue with Irish planners when there's an easier option in Madrid. Particularly if there's no guarantee of success and the above industrial park rejection implies.

Any change to the cap must have a must have a growth story attached.

Otherwise it’s only fair to ask DAA why are you building infrastructure for planes that will never land and don’t have the authority to?

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386069#Comment_122386069

I would tend to agree.

daa should be planning the third terminal now to avoid reaching the future caps and getting stuck time and time again. The planning process for a new terminal will take years alone not to mention the construction time. The 2 (3) runways are there ready to be used. As soon as cap is lifted to 36m with nothing built and 40m with the extensions to T1&2, the new caps will likely be reached very quickly and we’re back to square one each time in a very short space of time.

Passenger numbers from Jan to June are up 5% or nearly 1m passengers compared to 23. What could that have actually been without a cap..? Huge number of slots denied for winter 24/25 as a result.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386069#Comment_122386069

A lot of what you say is correct. I think that with LHR constrained IAG needed DUB and MAD to provide the growth for the future. But now there is doubt about DUB's long term certainty to provide that growth. Even if they get over this planning hurdle, the seed has been sown now to raise doubt on future developments that require planning. Every single planning application no matter how small will be objected too and distorted reporting by the media. Then you have the chain reaction of politicians reacting to the distorted media reporting to suit their own agendas.

We have a brand new runway in place so it's a real shame.

I doubt though if IAG wants all its eggs in just one single basket in MAD though. I think they could look for another HUB to provide growth if DUB is uncertain.

Economics101

Appears from FR24 that single runway ops are in use again. About 9 aircraft queued up for takeoff on 10R. Weather shows few clouds at 800 feet, scattered at 1200 and broken at 1400.

Is 10L not able to operate in these very undemanding conditiond? Or is there something else going on?

orionm_73

A walking inspection of 10L/28R was taking place.

EchoIndia

Notice re inspection.

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