Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Pat Dunne

Fattes wrote: »

remove access to a large cemetery that serves the needs of 1/4 of the cities population and a new,crematorium.

Remove access from where? I am close enough to Dardistown and I am not aware of any access changes.

Fattes wrote: »

Oh and the thousands of jobs you would take away with a cpo, from hauliers and business parks that operated in the area. The benefit will never outweighs the cost to the few and the wider economy in the area.

Exactly where are the thousands of jobs?
That quote also includes your comment on C.P.O'ed land!

Fattes wrote: »

There is room for both, here are the operational realities.
Busiest business route form the airport is a one hour flight, Dublin-London
7/10 busiest routes are less than 2 hour flight time. London, Manchester, Birmingham, Paris, Brussels,Edinborough. So the early flight times are not essential.

The vast majority of these and other European cities commence work at 8:00am necessating such a start time to allow for flight and ground transport connections.

Stealthirl

Heres one home that will be under the approach to the new northern runway going for €135K http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/stone-cottage-kettle-s-lane-cloghran-swords-dublin/2611370 thats a fare enough price for something that size considering you dont get the land behind it.

Then theres this for €375K http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/33-baskin-cottages-cloghran-co-dublin/3499412 and this for €495 http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/tighlinn-baskin-lane-kinsealy-county-dublin/3457258

Lastly one id love is €400K http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/collinstown-lane-coultry-cloghran-north-county-dublin/2890266

Doseant look like being close to the airport has affected there value much.

L1011

Fattes wrote: »

There is room for both, here are the operational realities.
Busiest business route form the airport is a one hour flight, Dublin-London
7/10 busiest routes are less than 2 hour flight time. London, Manchester, Birmingham, Paris, Brussels,Edinborough. So the early flight times are not essential.

The reason those routes are busy is because there are huge amounts of business traffic on them, for whom the flight times are essential.

If you need to work from 9 in a city centre (London excepted due to LCY - although the new approaches there are not helping) you need to arrive at the destination airport quite some time before that.

Fattes

Fattes wrote: »

A large part of the Airport complex was CPO / taken form the original family farm this property is on.!

Fattes wrote: »

remove access to a large cemetery that serves the needs of 1/4 of the cities population and a new,crematorium. Oh and the thousands of jobs you would take away with a cpo, from hauliers and business parks that operated in the area.

Fattes wrote: »

Take a deep breath and read again! I never suggested or commented on CPO land!

I have taken a deep breath and read again, might I suggest you try and remember your own rambling posts and think before you attack another poster.

Stealthirl

Stealthirl wrote: »

Heres one home that will be under the approach to the new northern runway going for €135K http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/stone-cottage-kettle-s-lane-cloghran-swords-dublin/2611370 thats a fare enough price for something that size considering you dont get the land behind it.

Then theres this for €375K http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/33-baskin-cottages-cloghran-co-dublin/3499412 and this for €495 http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/tighlinn-baskin-lane-kinsealy-county-dublin/3457258

Lastly one id love is €400K http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/collinstown-lane-coultry-cloghran-north-county-dublin/2890266

Doseant look like being close to the airport has affected there value much.

Panoramic Views of Dublin Airport

Blut2

Fattes wrote: »

Blut2; I am guessing you have not read my posts, its quiet nice here, and living close to the airport is not a problem. There is 8 houses on the r132 within 400 meters of the airport roughly the same on the south side and on the west I don't think there are to many in close proximity. As for timing Jet operations did not become frequent at dublin Airport until the 60's and few who bought there houses in the 50's and 60's could have foreseen wide scale commercial jet travel

"living close to the airport is not a problem". But this is the core of your argument: you are objecting to the expansion of services at Dublin airport. So it clearly is a problem for you.

By your own admission there are approximately 20 houses within 500m of the airport. Do you really think its right for Ireland to let the residents of these 20 houses prevent hundreds of thousands of extra people from using Dublin airport each year?

I would also question the theory of people still living in these houses who bought them in the 1950s before jet operations. If any are still there 60+ years on it must be a tiny, tiny number.

Tenger

This discussion was quite nice and respectful earlier on today. This thread has generated a couple of reports. I didn't interject as a mod as I felt that the posters in the thread were handling themselves quite well. However it has suddenly become a little heated. So can we ALL take some deep breaths and try to stop with the personal attacks. We cannot all agree to the same thing in this.
I can undestand the questioning of measurements and frequencies. fattes themselves has mentioned that the incidents are not common and are only related to the use of 16/24. They have also mentioned that they are confined to a very small number of long term residents. But please dont be attacking another poster on technicalites when they are relaying figures provided by a company, or figures being used as an example.

Back on the subject of the airport expansion: Some will say 'I was here before the airport', some will say '50-100 people cannot block expansion/increased services', some will say 'we can find a better way', some will say 'no' to everything. The planning process is there to find a compromise solution, that is not what we are here to do.
What we can do is say "I disagree with your point and here is my opinion on the matter"
Its a lovely sunny June day, we dont have to see eye to eye but we can at least disagree like civilised posters. If the personal attacks/disagreements continue then warnings will be issued

crosstownk

On the topic of 'house too close to airport', I'll ask the following question:

I was out cycling yesterday and being a bit of a plane spotter I went out by Dublin Airport. I was heading east on the road that runs alongside the Bravo taxiways and at the bend I took a left onto Dunbro Lane (for a comfort break ).

I noticed lots of 'private property' and 'no trespass' signs on various gates. Then I noticed some houses that appear to be vacant. As they appear to be more or less in line with the new 10L/28R plans, I'm guessing that the DAA have purchased these. Can anyone confirm? Pics of a couple of houses below.

I should also add that a lot of fields in the same area appear to have various crops growing in them.




EDIT: Both the properties above look a lot more overgrown now compared to the Google Street View image taken in April 2009.

KwackerJack

Fattes wrote: »

Aircraft will pass over us 30/40 seconds after take off on the Backuprunway, max climb rate of an A320 is 200 FT per min. So yep average is about 30/40 meters some are lower some are higher

I was climbing at 500fpm in a Cessna 152 on saturday. Granted i was practicing steep turns, climbs and stalls however i doubt my little 150 can outclimb an A320!

jimbis

On the topic of houses nearby, some of you might remember the house that was in the location of this pic. Or at least the wall and gate that used to be there up untill a few years ago.
That was my grandmothers house. Use to love hearing about the stories of them fleeing the house to hide in the fields during the war, scary for them at the time...but so interesting to hear first hand stories like that.
If only the house stayed in the family I'd have some great views

crosstownk

jimbis wrote: »

On the topic of houses nearby, some of you might remember the house that was in the location of this pic. Or at least the wall and gate that used to be there up untill a few years ago.

I remember the wall and gate. I used to climb up on the wall years ago to get a better view with my (then) super cool VHS-C camcorder!

Fattes

Blut2 wrote: »

"living close to the airport is not a problem". But this is the core of your argument: you are objecting to the expansion of services at Dublin airport. So it clearly is a problem for you.

By your own admission there are approximately 20 houses within 500m of the airport. Do you really think its right for Ireland to let the residents of these 20 houses prevent hundreds of thousands of extra people from using Dublin airport each year?

I would also question the theory of people still living in these houses who bought them in the 1950s before jet operations. If any are still there 60+ years on it must be a tiny, tiny number.

Again no objection to the expansion, questioning the need for Dublin to operate flights and volumes, that London, Zurich, Munich, Frankfurt all have restrictions on!

Fattes

She is 100 meters behind my house, planes/ flight path is 400 meters north of the shed tad bit of perspective

JCX BXC

Fattes wrote: »

questioning the need for Dublin to operate flights and volumes, that London, Zurich, Munich, Frankfurt all have restrictions on!

Your question's have been answered. All these cities are much closer to eachother, only Dublin-London is the same. It's completely impractical to catch a 7:30 flight to Zurich if work starts at 8!

I'm sure you've seen an answer extremely similar to this posted above, do you refute this answer?

Fattes

Carnacalla wrote: »

Your question's have been answered. All these cities are much closer to eachother, only Dublin-London is the same. It's completely impractical to catch a 7:30 flight to Zurich if work starts at 8!

I'm sure you've seen an answer extremely similar to this posted above, do you refute this answer?

The flights are not direct between each airport, the question is simple.

Every major airport in Europe all busier hubs than Dublin operate quiet hours and restrictions between 23:00 and 07:00 why should Dublin be different and allow unlimited flights and operations between these hours?

Locker10a

Fattes wrote: »

Carnacalla wrote: »

Your question's have been answered. All these cities are much closer to eachother, only Dublin-London is the same. It's completely impractical to catch a 7:30 flight to Zurich if work starts at 8!

I'm sure you've seen an answer extremely similar to this posted above, do you refute this answer?

The flights are not direct between each airport, the question is simple.

Every major airport in Europe all busier hubs than Dublin operate quiet hours and restrictions between 23:00 and 07:00 why should Dublin be different and allow unlimited flights and operations between these hours?

What do you purpose happens during unplanned delays or early arrivals, sometimes transatlantic flights arrive very early due to strong tail winds over the atlantic! Do they divert because DUB won't open until 7 ? Or should they be allowed?
Likewise flights scheduled to arrive before 11 pm, but get delayed due to circumstances that are beyond control, are these to be made to divert to SNN ? Or should they be allowed in these circumstances ?

JCX BXC

Fattes wrote: »

The flights are not direct between each airport, the question is simple.

What?

Every major airport in Europe all busier hubs than Dublin operate quiet hours and restrictions between 23:00 and 07:00 why should Dublin be different and allow unlimited flights and operations between these hours?

You're ignoring my point. LHR reaches several more destinations than DUB does in an hour. Do you refute the above sentence?

LHR is also located right in the city. It's operations cause flights to fly straight over the city centre. DUB is located outside the city and affects very few people. The factor of inconvenience is about 1 resident to 10,000 passengers.

Fattes

Locker10a wrote: »

What do you purpose happens during unplanned delays or early arrivals, sometimes transatlantic flights arrive very early due to strong tail winds over the atlantic! Do they divert because DUB won't open until 7 ? Or should they be allowed?
Likewise flights scheduled to arrive before 11 pm, but get delayed due to circumstances that are beyond control, are these to be made to divert to SNN ? Or should they be allowed in these circumstances ?

The restrictions are designed for schedule flights in normal circumstances, as is the case now flights arrive at 1:30 and 2am, due to delays, emergencies etc. The restrictions in place in other major European airports and Dublin currently are not targeted at emergency situations or delayed flights

Fattes

Carnacalla wrote: »

What?



You're ignoring my point. LHR reaches several more destinations than DUB does in an hour. Do you refute the above sentence?

LHR is also located right in the city. It's operations cause flights to fly straight over the city centre. DUB is located outside the city and affects very few people. The factor of inconvenience is about 1 resident to 10,000 passengers.

Where do you think I am disputing the volume of destinations from LHR outbound? In fact with the volume of destinations and frequency of flights and they cans still operate quiet hours from 23:00- 06:00 and restricted operations form 06:00-07:00 reinforces the point that it is acceptable at Dublin.

The four major European Hubs, Schipol, CDG paris, Frakfurt, Heathrow, all operate quiet hours, Frankfurt has the lowest level of restriction, Schipol has set quiet hours and closed runways, Paris had limited slots and aircraft types and LHR has a mix of Paris and Schipol system depending on the time.

The easterly flight path and probably most common used, from Dublin effects quiet a lot of people, you are focusing on one airport in LHR, airports not in the center with the same or similar restrictions, Zurich Munich, Frankfurt, CDG Paris and Schipol.

So again why do people believe that Dublin needs no restriction around quiet hours and flights, when every major European airport including the 4 big hubs have them.

JCX BXC

Gatwick has flights operating at all hours of the day, and has just short of double the amount of passengers Dublin has. There is a clear advantage to operating late into the night and early in the morning. The only case for restricting flights is affecting large amounts or population, something that you won't do at DUB or LGW.

Fattes

Carnacalla wrote: »

Gatwick has flights operating at all hours of the day, and has just short of double the amount of passengers Dublin has. There is a clear advantage to operating late into the night and early in the morning. The only case for restricting flights is affecting large amounts or population, something that you won't do at DUB or LGW.

Garrick operates quite hours and has restrictions on flights and aircraft types in those hours. There are certain hours they try to avoid

http://www.gatwickairport.com/business-community/aircraft-noise/air-traffic-noise-explained/noise-around-the-airport/night-noise/

There are very few major airports that don't operate restrictions between 23:00 and 07:00

jamo2oo9

Carnacalla wrote: »

Gatwick has flights operating at all hours of the day, and has just short of double the amount of passengers Dublin has. There is a clear advantage to operating late into the night and early in the morning. The only case for restricting flights is affecting large amounts or population, something that you won't do at DUB or LGW.

The difference between LGW and DUB is that LGW has a longer runway and larger stand capacity. DUB has neither of those.

billie1b

Carnacalla wrote: »

What?



You're ignoring my point. LHR reaches several more destinations than DUB does in an hour. Do you refute the above sentence?

LHR is also located right in the city. It's operations cause flights to fly straight over the city centre. DUB is located outside the city and affects very few people. The factor of inconvenience is about 1 resident to 10,000 passengers.

London LHR is 20 miles outside London City, its further away from the city than Dublin Airport is to Dublin.

Fattes

billie1b wrote: »

London LHR is 20 miles outside London City, its further away from the city than Dublin Airport is to Dublin.

In fairness it is in a very heavily populated area, compared to Dub.

billie1b

Fattes wrote: »

In fairness it is in a very heavily populated area, compared to Dub.

It does, but saying its in the city is incorrect

coylemj

billie1b wrote: »

London LHR is 20 miles outside London City, its further away from the city than Dublin Airport is to Dublin.

The approach to the westerly runways in LHR takes planes right over the centre of London. A typical approach from Dublin sees you fly across the north side of the city to Canary Wharf, then you do a sharp turn above the Millenium Dome (now the O2), then fly directly west to LHR with a great view of the city below you.

The distance to the city centre means nothing, it's where the planes fly over that matters, especially if you live below the flight path.

man98

But as regards Zurich, during their quiet hours they just use the crosswind runways. The quiet hours are for 28/10 in ZRH, so they switch to RWY 14 which just affects different residents at might instead. Airports can fund ways around it, and will continue to do so.

Fattes

man98 wrote: »

But as regards Zurich, during their quiet hours they just use the crosswind runways. The quiet hours are for 28/10 in ZRH, so they switch to RWY 14 which just affects different residents at might instead. Airports can fund ways around it, and will continue to do so.

Better tell the Swiss and German authorities there is a total block on flights at Zurich unless emergencies due to issues with German airspace and zurich residents.

https://www.zurich-airport.com/the-company/media/current-topics/night-flight-ban

http://www.slotcoordination.ch/xml_1/internet/en/application/d4/d56/f57.cfm

BonkeyDonker

Fattes wrote: »

Better tell the Swiss and German authorities there is a total block on flights at Zurich unless emergencies due to issues with German airspace and zurich residents.

https://www.zurich-airport.com/the-company/media/current-topics/night-flight-ban

http://www.slotcoordination.ch/xml_1/internet/en/application/d4/d56/f57.cfm

And from your link airport with UNRESTRICTED hours of operation:



The vast majority of those airports have no restrictions to movement after 06:00am, with two even earlier at 05:00am. And only two have an actual ban on movements during the unrestricted time.

Fattes

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

And from your link airport with UNRESTRICTED hours of operation:



The vast majority of those airports have no restrictions to movement after 06:00am, with two even earlier at 05:00am. And only two have an actual ban on movements during the unrestricted time.

The restriction on the planning for Dub allows 1 runway to operate between 6-7 for Heathrow it restrict jets types, Schipols has been updated to match heath rows since that table, as has Zurich in 2014/15

The point is unlimited operations form Dublin between 23:00-07:00 is not in line with standard operating practice at major European airports and hubs, with traffic and flight movements far in excess of Dub and they manage.

So I will ask again WHY SHOULD DUBLIN HAVE UNLIMITED OPERATING HOURS WITH NO RESTRICTIONS. Answer should include reasons beyond, "because they should"