Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

trellheim

I can guarantee you there was no empty pier 4 stands at that time of night.

Not what I saw ; to be clear from where I was looking there was exactly one airliner on the side of T2 I could see.

What is your guarantee ? And do aircraft tugs magically stop working once night falls so that empty aircraft can be pushed back ? there aint that many departures between midnight and first wave

DAA serve customers - real people ; anyone saying otherwise is just like that redshirt "not my problem bud"

Open Up

trellheim wrote: »

Not what I saw ; to be clear from where I was looking there was exactly one airliner on the side of T2 I could see.

What is your guarantee ? And do aircraft tugs magically stop working once night falls so that empty aircraft can be pushed back ? there aint that many departures between midnight and first wave

DAA serve customers - real people ; anyone saying otherwise is just like that redshirt "not my problem bud"

My guarantee is from working there. Aer Lingus bases the majority of its fleet at Dublin. Where do you think nearly 60 aircraft park at that time of the day.

Direct quote from Kevin Toland: "the daa's customers are airlines." While yes, by extension that means passengers, it's more the airline's responsibility to ensure they're securing favourable stands for certain flights, not the daa's.

plodder

yannakis wrote: »

Yeah, imagine a low cost Terminal where people have to pay for seats (more for the front row obviously), and throw all their garbage on the floor before leaving the gate.. :pac:

and all manner of hustlers trying to sell you stuff you don't want

Joking aside, I know it's a different environment, but who would have imagined ten years ago that Aldi and Lidl would be what they are now in this country. Competition is good, and cheap and cheerful has its place in the mix.

While it's not the primary consideration, I think it would be good to see Ryanair becoming "anchored" in Dublin airport in this way. Who knows it might lead to other developments in the future.. It's easy to forget they are the biggest airline in Europe. You certainly wouldn't know it from the footprint they have here.

billie1b

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Sorry to go off tangent, but while were speaking about gate assignments.. who is in charge of these? I presumed it was each airlines ops (or the company handling the airline if its an out station).. i.e Aer Lingus have x amount of gates that they can assign and use at will and so on.

The old tower, now known as the POD up over the baggage hall is where all the gate and stand assignments come from, the airlines don't choose. Each of the airlines OPS or Station Control department are tasked with watching the times and delays etc and informing the POD and they change the allocations around to suit.

AndyBoBandy

If Ryanair ever did decide to go Trans-Atlantic (if they got the deals they'd require on the AC), there could be more appetite from them to build/operate a T3, They'd need U.S. customs and Pre Clearance in the new terminal, and if they got it, T3 could become their TA hub (They could even start TA services with existing (ordered) AC (737-200 Max)).

This could then free up space at T1 for growth, providing Ryanair moved all ops to 'their' T3, which no doubt they would.

Imagine 20/30 Ryanair departures a day to the East Coast U.S., all fed from Ryanair's European network.

it would be worth it alone for the MO'L v DAA sound bites

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

Current stand allocations are a joke evening T2 inbounds usually have a huge walk from the old T1 - excuse given 'its for the morning inbounds'- ever hear of a tug lads to move the aircraft off stand afterwards

but no thats not our way in daa ... fk the SLF

watching old people cry after a long canary islands flight after trying to make it up the broken big escalator last week was a highlight of my evening let me tell you

the redshirt in passport control could not give a fk "someone elses problem Guv" absolute bottom feeders

trellheim wrote: »

you think I don't know that ? My objection is to looking at a clear line of t2 gates and DAA actually bothering their hole

trellheim wrote: »

Not what I saw ; to be clear from where I was looking there was exactly one airliner on the side of T2 I could see.

What is your guarantee ? And do aircraft tugs magically stop working once night falls so that empty aircraft can be pushed back ? there aint that many departures between midnight and first wave

DAA serve customers - real people ; anyone saying otherwise is just like that redshirt "not my problem bud"

There will have to be some stands at T2 empty at night to cope with the first wave of transatlantic arrivals which arrive long before the first wave of short haul departures.

Most of the 3XX gates will be taken with Aer Lingus short haul aircraft that arrive late at night there and depart from there first thing the next morning. Or do you expect them to offload at one pier and load again at another? That's daft frankly.

There's no excuse for the broken escalator but expecting someone who is in a fairly low paid customer service role to be able to fix it is pushing things.

As already mentioned the walk from the 3XX gates to passport control in T2 is no longer than that from gate 426 - this keeps coming up. People need to accept that the 3XX gates are shared between both T2 and T1 airlines and that is not going to change for the foreseeable future, even with the new remote boarding facility in T2.

Bussywussy

lxflyer wrote: »

Or do you expect them to offload at one pier and load again at another? That's daft frankly.

It happens...

LXFlyer

Bussywussy wrote: »

It happens...

I'm sure that it does, as I'm sure some of the aircraft head off to the hangars for maintenance - but I think the previous poster is going somewhat over the top about this.

There are going to be some aircraft that will have to use the 3XX gates - that's not going to change.

Bussywussy

"lxflyer wrote: »

There are going to be some aircraft that will have to use the 3XX gates - that's not going to change.

Absolutely...

trellheim

lets be charitable and say first wave US arrives 0400 . There is still 4 hours or so between the Canaries flight arriving . for my inbound to be pushed back from T2 ; ... but that doesn't seem to occur to planners. tugs sure what are they for

In answer to LXF point; I am well aware the long 4xx walk .

It has always struck me as silly that they dont use the border control in 3xx and the baggage belts in T1 for those inbounds lets face it its less than 1/3 the walk there is no particular reason to do the death march to T2, one baggage belt and passport control is like any other and it would seem like the no-brainer thing to do ; but lets face it DAA could not give a fk about SLF ... one of the posters correctly points out above that DAA wishes to distance itself from that kind of thing but I swear if Kevin Toland had been there I would have decked him .

I might add finally that the 4xx hike has several travelators ; the 3xx march has one which never works.

AndyBoBandy

trellheim wrote: »

It has always struck me as silly that they dont use the border control in 3xx and the baggage belts in T1 for those inbounds lets face it its less than 1/3 the walk there is no particular reason to do the death march to T2, one baggage belt and passport control is like any other and it would seem like the no-brainer thing to do

problem there is if your flight is advertised at arriving at T2 (as all Aer Lingus flights do), you could have people waiting to collect, taxi's etc... all at T2 arrivals, so it just makes things awkward.

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

lets be charitable and say first wave US arrives 0400 . There is still 4 hours or so between the Canaries flight arriving . for my inbound to be pushed back from T2 ; ... but that doesn't seem to occur to planners. tugs sure what are they for

In answer to LXF point; I am well aware the long 4xx walk .

It has always struck me as silly that they dont use the border control in 3xx and the baggage belts in T1 for those inbounds lets face it its less than 1/3 the walk there is no particular reason to do the death march to T2, one baggage belt and passport control is like any other and it would seem like the no-brainer thing to do ; but lets face it DAA could not give a fk about SLF ... one of the posters correctly points out above that DAA wishes to distance itself from that kind of thing but I swear if Kevin Toland had been there I would have decked him .

I might add finally that the 4xx hike has several travelators ; the 3xx march has one which never works.

What individual stands the aircraft use at that stage would be down to Aer Lingus surely and not the DAA?

The fact remains that first thing in the morning those aircraft will have to use the 3XX gates, and the departing passengers will have to walk across from T2 - are they more able to do it than arriving passengers?

I'm struggling with your logic here - you seem to think one group of passengers is more important than another?

All of Aer Lingus baggage handling and customer service facilities are in T2 - they're not going to suddenly re-create all of that in T1, just because you don't like the walk from the 3XX gates to passport control.

If they were to use T1 baggage handling belts and passport control, that is more cost that the airline will have to be charged for that will ultimately pass on to you. You could also have unnecessary confusion amongst people waiting for arriving passengers as to which terminal they should wait at.

I agree that a broken escalator or travellator should of course be fixed and you should get onto the DAA about that, but as I said above, the bottom line is that the walk from the 3XX gates to T2 passport control remains shorter than the longest similar walk within T2.

But before you get onto the DAA, I would suggest calming down a little first.

trellheim

The fact remains that first thing in the morning those aircraft will have to use the 3XX gates, and the departing passengers will have to walk across from T2 - are they more able to do it than arriving passengers?

I'm struggling with your logic here - you seem to think one group of passengers is more important than another?

All of Aer Lingus baggage handling and customer service facilities are in T2 - they're not going to suddenly re-create all of that in T1, just because you don't like the walk from the 3XX gates to passport control.

If they were to use T1 baggage handling belts and passport control, that is more cost that the airline will have to be charged for that will ultimately pass on to you. You could also have unnecessary confusion amongst people waiting for arriving passengers as to which terminal they should wait at.

I agree that a broken escalator or travellator should of course be fixed and you should get onto the DAA about that, but as I said above, the bottom line is that the walk from the 3XX gates to T2 passport control remains shorter than the longest similar walk within T2.

But before you get onto the DAA, I would suggest calming down a little first.

Thanks for suggesting I calm down, that really helps matters /sarcasm off

I think its having cake and eating it; they are perfectly happy to let passengers off at 3xx but not actually out of airside at that point "paying for facilities" .. . theyre paying to let me off at 3xx, open the fking door and put the bags on the nearest belt rather than acting the mickey.

FACT : this could be done better

FACT: they could not give a toss

I am now on probably my 29th flight through DUB in 2017 so far and it is by a long way the worst airport in Western Europe for inbound passengers ( although Malaga is only just beaten , stiff competition there on that one )

Paradoxically I find departing security very good and the whole departure experience is good . It often strikes me as two different airports , and the cynic in me says if you could sell a fast track inbound DAA would find some way to do it given the shopkeeper mentality.


Inbound 3xx and the walk to T2 is painful and unneccessary ; a smart person would sort it out. A smarter person would have people moving aircraft appropriately . Other smart people would bus inbounds ( like Gatwick, and the Stobarts ) to the correct place

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

Thanks for suggesting I calm down, that really helps matters /sarcasm off

I think its having cake and eating it; they are perfectly happy to let passengers off at 3xx but not actually out of airside at that point "paying for facilities" .. . theyre paying to let me off at 3xx, open the fking door and put the bags on the nearest belt rather than acting the mickey.

FACT : this could be done better

FACT: they could not give a toss

I am now on probably my 29th flight through DUB in 2017 so far and it is by a long way the worst airport in Western Europe for inbound passengers ( although Malaga is only just beaten , stiff competition there on that one )

Paradoxically I find departing security very good and the whole departure experience is good . It often strikes me as two different airports , and the cynic in me says if you could sell a fast track inbound DAA would find some way to do it given the shopkeeper mentality.


Inbound 3xx and the walk to T2 is painful and unneccessary ; a smart person would sort it out. A smarter person would have people moving aircraft appropriately . Other smart people would bus inbounds ( like Gatwick, and the Stobarts ) to the correct place

Well then perhaps use a different airline to Aer Lingus for an inbound flight if this annoys you so much as it seems to. There are very few short haul routes these days where there isn't an alternative or one close by.

Open Up

trellheim wrote: »

Thanks for suggesting I calm down, that really helps matters /sarcasm off

I think its having cake and eating it; they are perfectly happy to let passengers off at 3xx but not actually out of airside at that point "paying for facilities" .. . theyre paying to let me off at 3xx, open the fking door and put the bags on the nearest belt rather than acting the mickey.

FACT : this could be done better

FACT: they could not give a toss

I am now on probably my 29th flight through DUB in 2017 so far and it is by a long way the worst airport in Western Europe for inbound passengers ( although Malaga is only just beaten , stiff competition there on that one )

Paradoxically I find departing security very good and the whole departure experience is good . It often strikes me as two different airports , and the cynic in me says if you could sell a fast track inbound DAA would find some way to do it given the shopkeeper mentality.


Inbound 3xx and the walk to T2 is painful and unneccessary ; a smart person would sort it out. A smarter person would have people moving aircraft appropriately . Other smart people would bus inbounds ( like Gatwick, and the Stobarts ) to the correct place

I suppose that makes you the smartest of all then for making those suggestions.

Locker10a

trellheim wrote: »

The fact remains that first thing in the morning those aircraft will have to use the 3XX gates, and the departing passengers will have to walk across from T2 - are they more able to do it than arriving passengers?

I'm struggling with your logic here - you seem to think one group of passengers is more important than another?

All of Aer Lingus baggage handling and customer service facilities are in T2 - they're not going to suddenly re-create all of that in T1, just because you don't like the walk from the 3XX gates to passport control.

If they were to use T1 baggage handling belts and passport control, that is more cost that the airline will have to be charged for that will ultimately pass on to you. You could also have unnecessary confusion amongst people waiting for arriving passengers as to which terminal they should wait at.

I agree that a broken escalator or travellator should of course be fixed and you should get onto the DAA about that, but as I said above, the bottom line is that the walk from the 3XX gates to T2 passport control remains shorter than the longest similar walk within T2.

But before you get onto the DAA, I would suggest calming down a little first.

Thanks for suggesting I calm down, that really helps matters /sarcasm off

I think its having cake and eating it; they are perfectly happy to let passengers off at 3xx but not actually out of airside at that point "paying for facilities" .. . theyre paying to let me off at 3xx, open the fking door and put the bags on the nearest belt rather than acting the mickey.

FACT : this could be done better

FACT: they could not give a toss

I am now on probably my 29th flight through DUB in 2017 so far and it is by a long way the worst airport in Western Europe for inbound passengers ( although Malaga is only just beaten , stiff competition there on that one )

Paradoxically I find departing security very good and the whole departure experience is good . It often strikes me as two different airports , and the cynic in me says if you could sell a fast track inbound DAA would find some way to do it given the shopkeeper mentality.


Inbound 3xx and the walk to T2 is painful and unneccessary ; a smart person would sort it out. A smarter person would have people moving aircraft appropriately . Other smart people would bus inbounds ( like Gatwick, and the Stobarts ) to the correct place

I've worked with Gatwick airport for a number of years, up until last winter EasyJet had a split operation over the north and south terminal. Passengers would depart from the South terminal and on occasion the return flight would park at the north terminal, this caused chaos let me tell you there was endless complaints from passengers about this type of confusion with separate terminal arrivals and departures.
Thankfully this has come to an end and various airlines have moved around and everyone is settled in one terminal now.
But let me tell you this type of operation was so inefficient and caused complete confusion among ground staff let alone the travelling public.
So I completely understand why T2 flights who park at the 300 gates continue to manage their passengers in T2 as advertised. As inconveniences go it's a tiny one. Talk about first world problems.
I get the impression you'd be on here complaining if indeed the DAA had decided to process T2 arrivals in T1 because it caused you confusion and some other inconvenience.
It's no longer than walking from the end of pierD or E to their subsequent arrivals halls. Shock horror, and international airport requires passengers to walk somewhere! The injustice ....

trellheim

Im used and dont mind the silly long walk from the far end of the 1xx gates to the passport queue which is usually to the top of the escalator now ( different thread )

I dont mind the grand tour on the buses when you get off the stobarts ( they could park closer but EI seems to think there's a pong off ATRs ) cos theres a bus to 402 or whatever it is

what fking infuriates me - like I said - is a bunch of T2 empty gates and making old people cry ... "not my problem bud" seems to be a bunch of "deal with it mate you dont understand airport ops" folks here

It seems obvious to me to let people off in the arrivals hall nearest their arrival but other people see through different lenses . all I want is my bag and a taxi , these facilities are available so why the hell not

Locker10a

trellheim wrote: »

Im used and dont mind the silly long walk from the far end of the 1xx gates to the passport queue which is usually to the top of the escalator now ( different thread )

I dont mind the grand tour on the buses when you get off the stobarts ( they could park closer but EI seems to think there's a pong off ATRs ) cos theres a bus to 402 or whatever it is

what fking infuriates me - like I said - is a bunch of T2 empty gates and making old people cry ... "not my problem bud" seems to be a bunch of "deal with it mate you dont understand airport ops" folks here

It seems obvious to me to let people off in the arrivals hall nearest their arrival but other people see through different lenses . all I want is my bag and a taxi , these facilities are available so why the hell not

I and other posters have just explained why not!!!! The system you propose causes confusion, complexity and even more of an inconvenience, this has been proven.
You're problem is you think you know better, you think because something appears better it is, because you see it that way. If it's more convenient for you, then it's the way things should be done, you're refusing to look at the bigger picture here and the additional complexities and logistics of airport operations. I suppose you could do it better, then why don't you?
Unfortunately commercial air travel does not serve individual needs, and we all have to put up with things that may not suit us, I know I do, but I can't afford a private jet, so I go along being a cooperative member of the travelling public, and to be honest it's not that difficult.

trellheim

I and other posters have just explained why not!!!! The system you propose causes confusion, complexity and even more of an inconvenience, this has been proven.
You're problem is you think you know better, you think because something appears better it is, because you see it that way. If it's more convenient for you, then it's the way things should be done, you're refusing to look at the bigger picture here and the additional complexities and logistics of airport operations. I suppose you could do it better, then why don't you?
Unfortunately commercial air travel does not serve individual needs, and we all have to put up with things that may not suit us, I know I do, but I can't afford a private jet, so I go along being a cooperative member of the travelling public, and to be honest it's not that difficult.

Great thanks for the constructive post ; you have not explained a single reason why it can't be done other than ground staff getting possibly confused.

FACT There are baggage belts and border posts just inside the door of 3xx ; it is demonstrably a shorter walk.
FACT : Do they use the jetway at 3xx ? No its a walk down stairs to the rain, out to the road up the stairs and then the death march. Even Ryanair use front and back stairs - so you have to wait 10-15 mins before you're treated to the hike ( magically all DAA and EI staff vanish when you want to complain on the walk but thats no surprise you expect that from those two customer icons , customer service inbound not our problem bud - try and complain "DAA problem" try and complain to DAA "airline problem" try and complain here "you're thick" )
FACT : 4xx has a bunch of travelators , 3xx to T2 has one ( in the wrong place, and it doesn't work ) plus a regularly broken escalator
FACT : There are empty gates in T2 which won't will be empty till 0400 at the earliest and still they make people walk from 3xx ( tugs are not complicated lads )
FACT : Airline ops are simpler than they look a lot of people just do not give a toss tis easier to just say "that 402 ( or whatever ) gate is for the morning, no-one can use it till then, I can go home now " ( go on then prove me wrong tell me about how I've got it all wrong )

Dont worry I know its a love-in here

My experience is that the "Big Picture" is all about a lot of details . A passenger airports job is to serve its customers ( and, as I said above, because theres a biut of ching-ching on the outbound its done better ) . Like I said in my opinion DUB inbound - worst in western europe and EI and DAA are happy to keep that flag flying.

Open Up

trellheim wrote: »

Great thanks for the constructive post ; you have not explained a single reason why it can't be done other than ground staff getting possibly confused.

FACT There are baggage belts and border posts just inside the door of 3xx ; it is demonstrably a shorter walk.
FACT : Do they use the jetway at 3xx ? No its a walk down stairs to the rain, out to the road up the stairs and then the death march. Even Ryanair use front and back stairs - so you have to wait 10-15 mins before you're treated to the hike ( magically all DAA and EI staff vanish when you want to complain on the walk but thats no surprise you expect that from those two customer icons , customer service inbound not our problem bud - try and complain "DAA problem" try and complain to DAA "airline problem" try and complain here "you're thick" )
FACT : 4xx has a bunch of travelators , 3xx to T2 has one ( in the wrong place, and it doesn't work ) plus a regularly broken escalator
FACT : There are empty gates in T2 which won't will be empty till 0400 at the earliest and still they make people walk from 3xx ( tugs are not complicated lads )
FACT : Airline ops are simpler than they look a lot of people just do not give a toss tis easier to just say "that 402 ( or whatever ) gate is for the morning, no-one can use it till then, I can go home now " ( go on then prove me wrong tell me about how I've got it all wrong )

Dont worry I know its a love-in here

My experience is that the "Big Picture" is all about a lot of details . A passenger airports job is to serve its customers ( and, as I said above, because theres a biut of ching-ching on the outbound its done better ) . Like I said in my opinion DUB inbound - worst in western europe and EI and DAA are happy to keep that flag flying.

Why don't you just contact EI/daa directly to get your answer then? It seems you don't really want the answer, you just want to complain (as you admitted). Sometimes the actual reality is different from an individual's and they find this hard to accept. For example, no one suggested you were thick. You were the one on the defensive all the time with the sarcastic rhetoric. That's hardly constructive either.

Blut2

When someone starts off their argument with "DUB is the worst airport in Europe!!" I think its best to not even try to reason with them. It shows either a complete lack of experience of other airports, or a too high to be reasoned with level of ignorance/bias/anger.

Not that DUB is unimpeachable mind you, there are lots of ways it can be improved. But I don't think anyone who does a reasonable amount of travel will argue its any worse than a mid-tier airport at worst.

VG31

Blut2 wrote: »

Not that DUB is unimpeachable mind you, there are lots of ways it can be improved. But I don't think anyone who does a reasonable amount of travel will argue its any worse than a mid-tier airport at worst.

The only major issue with Dublin Airport in my opinion is the lack of an underground rail link to the city.

Open Up

VG31 wrote: »

The only major issue with Dublin Airport in my opinion is the lack of an underground rail link to the city.

It's 1 of 2 airports in the busiest 25 European airports without a rail link to the city centre! The other being Palma de Mallorca. Definitely a valid argument. The buses currently serving the city centre aren't disastrous in my experience though. Particularly if they're using the Port Tunnel.

LXFlyer

VG31 wrote: »

The only major issue with Dublin Airport in my opinion is the lack of an underground rail link to the city.

Plus the lack of any meaningful local PSO bus network to/from the various parts of north Dublin that facilitates staff and passengers alike.

Blut2

VG31 wrote: »

The only major issue with Dublin Airport in my opinion is the lack of an underground rail link to the city.

To be clear I do quite like DUB. But for an airport its size it really should have the aforementioned rail link.

Off the top of my head immigration could also be improved on to handle the peak waves of traffic, but hopefully that will happen with the implementation of more automated passport gates.

It could also do with better food options airside, especially in T2.

I've heard connection facilities aren't great also, but have never experienced them myself. Hopefully as the number of connecting passengers continues to rise this will get remedied.

These are all relatively minor problems (aside from the rail link) though. The major airport functions of helpful staff, a functional/modern layout, low security queue times etc are all great at DUB. Thats why I said mid-tier at the worst!

Noxegon

Apparently there's a third case against the new runway now:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/plans-for-dublin-runway-could-be-about-to-enter-holding-pattern-1.3094901

AndyBoBandy

Noxegon wrote: »

Apparently there's a third case against the new runway now:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/plans-for-dublin-runway-could-be-about-to-enter-holding-pattern-1.3094901

They've had 10 years to go the legal route, so why only now that the work has already begun.

The 2nd runway has to happen.
It's going to happen.
It needs to happen.

Cloudio9

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

They've had 10 years to go the legal route, so why only now that the work has already begun.

The 2nd runway has to happen.
It's going to happen.
It needs to happen.

It's actually the DAA that are seeking to vary the terms of the planning permission they were granted so it is they who have waited 10 years to go the legal route.

Peregrine

Cloudio9 wrote: »

It's actually the DAA that are seeking to vary the terms of the planning permission they were granted so it is they who have waited 10 years to go the legal route.

Is the challenge not against FCC's decision to extend the planning permission by five years? They got their say when the original planning permission was granted and now they're gearing up for round two.

IngazZagni

It would be really awful if this was delayed again. As I type there are delays at Dublin due to the volume of traffic arriving and departing. Aircraft are circling the skies burning excess fuel. A second runway should eliminate these kind of delays. The runway is needed now, let alone 2020 or whenever this could be delayed until.