Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Cloudio9

Peregrine wrote: »

Is the challenge not against FCC's decision to extend the planning permission by five years? They got their say when the original planning permission was granted and now they're gearing up for round two.

No the DAA is attempting to vary the conditions.

Arthur Daley

IngazZagni wrote: »

It would be really awful if this was delayed again. As I type there are delays at Dublin due to the volume of traffic arriving and departing. Aircraft are circling the skies burning excess fuel. A second runway should eliminate these kind of delays. The runway is needed now, let alone 2020 or whenever this could be delayed until.

That's as may be. We all use the airport. But it shouldn't give the DAA carte blanche to change usage and operating hours as it likes in building that second runway.

MICKEYG

At the busiest times, departures early morning and arrivals late night, is it envisaged that both runways can work together - take offs on both at the same time and landings on both at the same time.

Noxegon

One hopes that they'll do something about passport control before then...

Jamie2k9

Arthur Daley wrote: »

IngazZagni wrote: »

It would be really awful if this was delayed again. As I type there are delays at Dublin due to the volume of traffic arriving and departing. Aircraft are circling the skies burning excess fuel. A second runway should eliminate these kind of delays. The runway is needed now, let alone 2020 or whenever this could be delayed until.

That's as may be. We all use the airport. But it shouldn't give the DAA carte blanche to change usage and operating hours as it likes in building that second runway.

Restrictions were based on noise and its changed since then so they have every right to want a change. If the shoe was on the other foot you can be sure those opposed would appeal it.

Peregrine

Cloudio9 wrote: »

No the DAA is attempting to vary the conditions.

I know that but the article says it's FCC's decision to extend planning permission that's being challenged.

They haven't done anything about the restrictions yet for it to be appealed in the High Court.

yannakis

IngazZagni wrote: »

It would be really awful if this was delayed again. As I type there are delays at Dublin due to the volume of traffic arriving and departing. Aircraft are circling the skies burning excess fuel. A second runway should eliminate these kind of delays. The runway is needed now, let alone 2020 or whenever this could be delayed until.

Actually yesterday morning, some Ryanair flights were redirected to NOC due to high waiting times over DUB!

Mebuntu

yannakis wrote: »

Actually yesterday morning, some Ryanair flights were redirected to NOC due to high waiting times over DUB!

There was fog at DUB yesterday morning. My Ryanair flight pushed back about 15 minutes late followed by another tortuous 45 minutes on the ground, mostly spent at the Runway 16 holding point for 28. The silence from the flight deck was deafening.

JCX BXC

yannakis wrote: »

Actually yesterday morning, some Ryanair flights were redirected to NOC due to high waiting times over DUB!

What flights were diverted to Knock as a result of delays at DUB? As far as I was aware, there was only one flight diverted and that was a Ryanair to Shannon

yannakis

JCX BXC wrote: »

What flights were diverted to Knock as a result of delays at DUB? As far as I was aware, there was only one flight diverted and that was a Ryanair to Shannon

I don't remember the details now, it was mentioned in a discussion with a friend yesterday evening..

uxiant

Flight on Thursday from Dublin wasn't far off 30 minutes from leaving the terminal to taking off because of the congestion on the runway.

T1 was jam packed too with little space left to sit and relax before a flight.

DAA need to ensure they keep up with this growth before it all backfires.

JCX BXC

uxiant wrote: »

Flight on Thursday from Dublin wasn't far off 30 minutes from leaving the terminal to taking off because of the congestion on the runway.

T1 was jam packed too with little space left to sit and relax before a flight.

DAA need to ensure they keep up with this growth before it all backfires.

Was that not due to fog?
Even with 2 runways you'll always have massive delays in LVP's.

uxiant

JCX BXC wrote: »

Was that not due to fog?
Even with 2 runways you'll always have massive delays in LVP's.

Wasn't foggy around the airport but maybe out towards sea there was some that could affect departures.

JCX BXC

Yeah Thursday morning had LVP's for quite a time, resulting in very long departure lines and arrival holdings, with even a diversion to Shannon.

I don't think you can use this as a valid reason for saying Dublin is at capacity, in terms of Runway constraints there's still some space. Look at Gatwick, single runway and still many millions more pax than Dublin.

Of course I'm not saying Dublin shouldn't get the second runway, but the situation is not as sure as it's being made out to be. Be glad that we are forward planning for once.

As for the passport control, well that's really disgraceful. Thankfully I've not met anything like that the past 5 times I've flown from Dublin in the last 12 months.

uxiant

JCX BXC wrote: »

Yeah Thursday morning had LVP's for quite a time, resulting in very long departure lines and arrival holdings, with even a diversion to Shannon.

I don't think you can use this as a valid reason for saying Dublin is at capacity, in terms of Runway constraints there's still some space. Look at Gatwick, single runway and still many millions more pax than Dublin.

Of course I'm not saying Dublin shouldn't get the second runway, but the situation is not as sure as it's being made out to be. Be glad that we are forward planning for once.

As for the passport control, well that's really disgraceful. Thankfully I've not met anything like that the past 5 times I've flown from Dublin in the last 12 months.

The flight was late afternoon not morning. The weather was the best it can be in Ireland really so I'd say it's a sign of the airport beginning to struggle a little at peak hours.

I'm not saying Dublin has reached capacity but the signs are there that at peak hours the single runway beginning to struggle to cope with demand. Using Gatwick as a comparison as to why Dublin can hold off on a new runway doesn't make much sense either as the two airports are in completely different situations. Dublin's runway is old and under a lengthy resurfacing project. If there was another runway this could be completed much quicker. Dublin also has a far shorter runway and has different taxiways.

Movement needs to be made on the runway or Dublin's growth will be restricted. Dublin needs a new runway for different reasons to Gatwick as well as just capacity alone.

LXFlyer

uxiant wrote: »

The flight was late afternoon not morning. The weather was the best it can be in Ireland really so I'd say it's a sign of the airport beginning to struggle a little at peak hours.

I'm not saying Dublin has reached capacity but the signs are there that at peak hours the single runway beginning to struggle to cope with demand. Using Gatwick as a comparison as to why Dublin can hold off on a new runway doesn't make much sense either as the two airports are in completely different situations. Dublin's runway is old and under a lengthy resurfacing project. If there was another runway this could be completed much quicker. Dublin also has a far shorter runway and has different taxiways.

Movement needs to be made on the runway or Dublin's growth will be restricted. Dublin needs a new runway for different reasons to Gatwick as well as just capacity alone.

Bear in mind that if flights had been delayed by fog earlier in the day, there would have been knock on effects on any flight operated by a Dublin based aircraft.

You could have had many more flights operating at that time than were scheduled to do so which will impact on the time taken to land/take off.

Avada

JCX BXC wrote: »

Yeah Thursday morning had LVP's for quite a time, resulting in very long departure lines and arrival holdings, with even a diversion to Shannon.

I don't think you can use this as a valid reason for saying Dublin is at capacity, in terms of Runway constraints there's still some space. Look at Gatwick, single runway and still many millions more pax than Dublin.

Of course I'm not saying Dublin shouldn't get the second runway, but the situation is not as sure as it's being made out to be. Be glad that we are forward planning for once.

As for the passport control, well that's really disgraceful. Thankfully I've not met anything like that the past 5 times I've flown from Dublin in the last 12 months.

Afaik, Gatwick also has a very different aircraft profile.

In 2016, Gatwick had 275,633 movements and 44m pax.

In the same period, Dublin had 207,520 movements and around 28m pax.

So, their runway is used in a very different way.

Irish Steve

There are a number of things that are very different between Dublin and Gatwick.

The first is the layout, Gatwick has 2 very separate terminals, and a much better layout of stands and access routes to and from the runway, without the ramp congestion issues that cause regular problems at Dublin.

The mix of aircraft that operate in to Gatwick is different to Dublin, there are very few smaller aircraft like EM145's, Dash 8's and ATR's at Gatwick these days, which has a direct effect on the numbers, both passengers and runway usage, the separation issues on both arrivals and departures between the different size aircraft directly impacts the number of flights that can be handled per hour.

The UK use a different ATC system to Ireland, at both Gatwick and Heathrow, the system UK allows a "land after" clearances to be used, which helps to reduce the separation needed between similar size aircraft.

The second runway at Dublin is no longer a nice idea, it's needed to allow Dublin to continue to provide the service that the customers are looking for, but if anyone thinks that the new runway will solve the other issues, they're in dreamland, there are so many other issues around things like aircraft parking, access to stands and landside access that are all going to be ongoing pressure issues for years to come, and that's without adding the issues that the Brexit situation may cause, both good and bad.

medoc

Arriving in to Dublin late last night on Ryanair we landed at the 200 gates as we sometimes do. The new segregated arrivals was in use. Looks like a good job. Hopefully they improve the facilities at the 200 gates or at least remove the one way doors from the main departures concourse. A few times my Flybe or CityJet was delayed and the food or drink options are poor stuck there.

CoisFharraige

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/ryanair-opposes-legal-challenges-to-new-320m-runway-at-dublin-airport-35867371.html

An interesting development in 28R! Would be surprised if Ryanair didn't receive a nice incentive to back the DAA? Of course it's in their self-interest, but I'm sure a certain someone in Ryanair was cringing when approving this.

Jamie2k9

CoisFharraige wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/ryanair-opposes-legal-challenges-to-new-320m-runway-at-dublin-airport-35867371.html

An interesting development in 28R! Would be surprised if Ryanair didn't receive a nice incentive to back the DAA? Of course it's in their self-interest, but I'm sure a certain someone in Ryanair was cringing when approving this.

Not at all, MOL knows it needed but of course the cost is what they can't agree on.

He has never had a kind word to say about such legal battles at airports and rightly so which is enough to motivate them to team up with daa.

Jamie2k9

daa also announced today they will increase the buyout from 20 to 30% above market value properties.

Donegal Storm

Just a heads up that satellite imagery on Google maps has been updated recently and shows the progress on the runway nicely. The road diversions look to be progressing well and lots of earthworks already underway

yannakis

Donegal Storm wrote: »

Just a heads up that satellite imagery on Google maps has been updated recently and shows the progress on the runway nicely. The road diversions look to be progressing well and lots of earthworks already underway

I can only see it on Google Earth Pro (desktop) version - imagery is apparently from the future:


Edit: From some spot-checking in various (newbuilds) sites, imagery seems to be approx 1 month old.

plodder

yannakis wrote: »

I can only see it on Google Earth Pro (desktop) version - imagery is apparently from the future:
...

Edit: From some spot-checking in various (newbuilds) sites, imagery seems to be approx 1 month old.

That's an American date format: month/day/year.

Bussywussy

Donegal Storm wrote: »

Just a heads up that satellite imagery on Google maps has been updated recently and shows the progress on the runway nicely. The road diversions look to be progressing well and lots of earthworks already underway

They've even surfaced some of the new road now,passed it yest on way out.
When you turn right after keelings for st Margaret's there's another building site too,not sure if it's a new road or a storage site

yannakis

plodder wrote: »

That's an American date format: month/day/year.

Dayum!! ifeelstupidnow. :pac:

Bussywussy wrote: »

They've even surfaced some of the new road now,passed it yest on way out.
When you turn right after keelings for st Margaret's there's another building site too,not sure if it's a new road or a storage site

The published closure for Forest Rd was until Fri 7 Jul, so I think they're on track.

There's another realignment going on on the second location you mentioned: https://www.dublinairport.com/docs/default-source/North-Runway-Docs/plans-for-roads-in-the-vicinity-of-north-runway.pdf

Peregrine

Donegal Storm wrote: »

Just a heads up that satellite imagery on Google maps has been updated recently and shows the progress on the runway nicely. The road diversions look to be progressing well and lots of earthworks already underway

And the site prep for the new ATC tower.

Pat Dunne

yannakis wrote: »

I can only see it on Google Earth Pro (desktop) version - imagery is apparently from the future:

May 7th 2017, "Americana" style dating system.

medoc

They've now removed the non return doors on the way to the 200 gates. Though it's still not fully finished.