White Spot

Ilik Urgee

Lost 14 fish last weekend including my pleco due to Ich or whitespot.
Have been running the tank at 30*c with 2 platys and 3 black skirts who were infected but look to be improving well.
My question is should I remove the black off screen,in my case a black bath towel, now on the 3rd day of treatment and drop off the temperature tomorrow and continue treatment for a second cycle? Or keep temperature up as well as the towel?
My first tank at only 3 months old so new to all this stuff.

Thanks in advance.

Sleepy

Raising the temperature is great for killing ich but unfortunately some fish simply can't handle that temperature either.

I'd always recommend a second cycle of the eSHa to make to absolutely sure you've killed any remaining parasites. Blackout isn't essential for killing ich, it just helps de-stress your fish. If you want to take it down, I'd recommend leaving your lights off for another while.

Tropheus

What are you treating with? eSHa Exit or 2000? I've never heard of using a black background. I usually use salt at one tablespoon per 40l and eSHa exit. It may need a second treatment, but it usually does the trick.

tteknulp

Protozin is good against ich ,never let me down

Ilik Urgee

hi all, am treating with Interpet Anti-White Spot. Ran a second cycle and managed to rescue last 5 fish even though the tetras were showing signs of infection.
I don't know what instigated the infection but my inexperience was the main factor in losing so many. Badly need to invest in a test kit as I've had it tested twice at two different retailers and both have given me contrasting readings regarding nitrates,readings about 3 weeks apart.
Have introduced filter start this evening hoping this might bring nitrates back down.

Mr Whirly

Your nitrates will fluctuate. They will rise between water changes. Once your ammonia and nitrite levels are 0 you should be fine. Nitrates below 50ppm shouldn't cause any issues but I try to keep mine below 20ppm.

White spot is nearly always brought on by new fish carrying it when introduced to the aquarium. Always have a good look at all the fish in the system in the shop before buying. Check all species in that particular system. It is waterborne at certain stages so even though your fish might look clean it could still be introduced.

Ilik Urgee

Mr Whirly wrote: »

Your nitrates will fluctuate. They will rise between water changes. Once your ammonia and nitrite levels are 0 you should be fine. Nitrates below 50ppm shouldn't cause any issues but I try to keep mine below 20ppm.

White spot is nearly always brought on by new fish carrying it when introduced to the aquarium. Always have a good look at all the fish in the system in the shop before buying. Check all species in that particular system. It is waterborne at certain stages so even though your fish might look clean it could still be introduced.

I have my suspicions as I introduced 5 cardinals and 3 tetras only 4 days before the first casualty. Can't say for sure but I'll know bettre in future. Is there any way of telling a fish is "carrying" more so than infected? Or is this even possible?

Sleepy

Ich is a parasite that can only really enter your aquarium with new fish, or (far less likely) in water / plants from another source. If a fish has ich, it's visible.

It's one of the reasons you're always recommended to use a net to get the fish out of the bag they come in rather than simply tipping them into the tank once you've equalised the water temperatures by leaving the bag sit in your aquarium for a bit.

Read the sticky on the top about cycling a tank. You need to understand the chemical process going on in your water before any test kits are of use:

Basically: Fish excrete Ammonia > Bacteria in Filter process (via a stage of being Nitrite which should be undetectable in a cycled tank) this into Nitrate > Water Changes remove Nitrate from tank. Small levels of Nitrate (<10ppm) aren't harmful to fish but if it raises significantly above that, you're poisoning your fish.

Never put anything into your water you don't fully understand. Filter Start will probably be quite useless in your tank at the moment.

Mr Whirly

Sleepy wrote: »

Ich is a parasite that can only really enter your aquarium with new fish, or (far less likely) in water / plants from another source. If a fish has ich, it's visible.

It is not visible in the early stages. The "white spot" is a cyst that the fish produces in an effort to fend off the parasite. It will never be on plants as it has no reason to attach itself to a plant. It can be in the water. It will drop off the fish and reproduce at the base of your tank and then search for another host.

In a freshwater aquarium that is not heavily planted with a good stock of hardy fish I would not be concerned about nitrate levels below 40ppm. To achieve a level of below 10ppm would be quite difficult.

Sleepy

Part of the life cycle of the Ich is an egg-like stage called encystment where it rests in the substrate/plants of an aquarium before releasing theronts which infect the fish. It's an unlikely source for whitespot in your aquarium but it is possible.

Ilik Urgee

Sleepy wrote: »

Ich is a parasite that can only really enter your aquarium with new fish, or (far less likely) in water / plants from another source. If a fish has ich, it's visible.

It's one of the reasons you're always recommended to use a net to get the fish out of the bag they come in rather than simply tipping them into the tank once you've equalised the water temperatures by leaving the bag sit in your aquarium for a bit.

Read the sticky on the top about cycling a tank. You need to understand the chemical process going on in your water before any test kits are of use:

Basically: Fish excrete Ammonia > Bacteria in Filter process (via a stage of being Nitrite which should be undetectable in a cycled tank) this into Nitrate > Water Changes remove Nitrate from tank. Small levels of Nitrate (<10ppm) aren't harmful to fish but if it raises significantly above that, you're poisoning your fish.

Never put anything into your water you don't fully understand. Filter Start will probably be quite useless in your tank at the moment.

That sticky has more questions answered for me, it's pretty good for noobies like myself.
When you say at the moment, I take it I should persist? Need to get the nitrates down that should be easier with less fish:(

One thing that does bother me, my tank is in indirect sunlight 6 or 7 hours a day, so much so that in sunny weather algae builds up pretty fast on the glass surface. The platys eat it before they touch the flakes, the tetras won't touch it. Just means I've a lot of unwanted flakes on the gravel which the tetras won't eat(they seem to only eat the suspended flakes?), and the platys don't eat in fine weather.

Could the flakes be a source of nitrates?

Sleepy

In a roundabout way, yes. They produce ammonia as they break down and that feeds into the cycle.

The most effective way of reducing nitrates is water changes. Never do more than a 50% change and even that's pretty drastic, regular 10-20% changes are better recommended.

Finally, if food is going uneaten, you're over-feeding. Might be a good idea to miss a day to let the fish find what's already in there and then reduce the amount your feeding drastically. For most fish, a small pinch of flakes once a day is more than enough. If you keep in mind that most breeds of tropical fish have stomachs the size of their eyes that might give you an idea of the levels you should be feeding at.

Mr Whirly

I'd also keep an eye on the temperature of the tank when the sun is directly on it. The platys may not be eating as they do not like high temps. I would definitely consider moving the tank as you will always battle with algae issues where it is.

we just had a 3 week battle with our MBU puffer. As of monday we were whitespot free. We did put up the temp but we also gave salt baths and bought reversed osmosis water. Due to our water being like acid !

Ilik Urgee

Mr Whirly wrote: »

I'd also keep an eye on the temperature of the tank when the sun is directly on it. The platys may not be eating as they do not like high temps. I would definitely consider moving the tank as you will always battle with algae issues where it is.

I honestly wish I could!! Gonna mount a blind over the tank to keep the sun out. At the minute it's running at 26', same as norma.

Gonna cut back on the feeding amount tomorrow and take it from there, cheers for the eye size tip Sleepy.

Ilik Urgee

Deleted User wrote: »

we just had a 3 week battle with our MBU puffer. As of monday we were whitespot free. We did put up the temp but we also gave salt baths and bought reversed osmosis water. Due to our water being like acid !

What kind of salts?

m4r10

While it's likely the ich was introduced by the new fish, your existing fish can carry the dormant ich which is triggered by changes in the environment. Also, old fish can develop ich as their immune system is not that efficient anymore at combating diseases. As such, every fish keeper will have to fight ich in their tanks and it's a question of how prepared they are to fight it off.

Regarding the different test results from the LFS, 3 weeks is a long time and your tank could've suffered changes, hence the results. Note that even the change in temperature of the water while you take it to the LFS can affect the results of the tests, so I wouldn't blame them for the different results.

Ilik Urgee

m4r10 wrote: »

While it's likely the ich was introduced by the new fish, your existing fish can carry the dormant ich which is triggered by changes in the environment.

All fish came from the same supplier in a 6 week timespan.

m4r10 wrote: »

Also, old fish can develop ich as their immune system is not that efficient anymore at combating diseases. As such, every fish keeper will have to fight ich in their tanks and it's a question of how prepared they are to fight it off.

Once fish have it once, they are immune from re-infection.
Why wouldn't a fish keeper not want to fight to keep their tank healthy and disease free?

m4r10 wrote: »

Regarding the different test results from the LFS, 3 weeks is a long time and your tank could've suffered changes, hence the results. Note that even the change in temperature of the water while you take it to the LFS can affect the results of the tests, so I wouldn't blame them for the different results.

It's not a question of laying blame, I'm just stating fact

m4r10

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

Once fish have it once, they are immune from re-infection.

Where did you read that fish are immune to ich once they had it? Can you post a link? Some fish are more prone to ich than others, especially in marine fish, where the same fish can develop ich on a regular basis.

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

Why wouldn't a fish keeper not want to fight to keep their tank healthy and disease free?

Maybe I didn't made myself understood. It's not the case that someone would rather fight the ich than to keep the tank healthy. I was just saying that at some point in time or another, it's inevitable to get the ich in a tank.

Ilik Urgee

m4r10 wrote: »

Where did you read that fish are immune to ich once they had it? Can you post a link? Some fish are more prone to ich than others, especially in marine fish, where the same fish can develop ich on a regular basis.



Maybe I didn't made myself understood. It's not the case that someone would rather fight the ich than to keep the tank healthy. I was just saying that at some point in time or another, it's inevitable to get the ich in a tank.

I didn't read it tbh, I was told in the retailers, looks like they were wrong about that!!

Yeah that's what I was thinking regarding the Ich inevitability. Unfortunately I didn't 2 weeks ago:(

fred funk }{

m4r10 wrote: »

While it's likely the ich was introduced by the new fish, your existing fish can carry the dormant ich which is triggered by changes in the environment. Also, old fish can develop ich as their immune system is not that efficient anymore at combating diseases. As such, every fish keeper will have to fight ich in their tanks and it's a question of how prepared they are to fight it off.

Regarding the different test results from the LFS, 3 weeks is a long time and your tank could've suffered changes, hence the results. Note that even the change in temperature of the water while you take it to the LFS can affect the results of the tests, so I wouldn't blame them for the different results.

Agree 100%. Most of these things are present in the aquarium and only when the fish's immune system is reduced do they take hold.

Fish's immune system is normally reduced because of poor conditions in the tank and the fish become stressed.

Sleepy

Ich can't lay dormant in a tank it needs to infect the fish to continue it's life-cycle. Without the infection stage, it dies off.

Ilik Urgee

Sleepy wrote: »

Ich can't lay dormant in a tank it needs to infect the fish to continue it's life-cycle. Without the infection stage, it dies off.

So is there a strong possibility that my tank is 100% ICH free now with just 5 fish there. The 3 tetras were definitely sick, I think the platys never suffered tbh.
Or is there a dormant stage of infection where newly introduced ICH-free fish could be infected by my existing fish?
Sorry if that sounds a bit long winded but just wondering:o

oldat31

As far as I am aware Ich dies and depending on the temp of your tank depends on how fast or slow. If your tank is cold it takes longer to mature and leave the host, the warmer the faster and the quicker it dies. Thats why the salts work better when you crank up the heat.

I am also sure ( but stand to be corrected ) that Ich can develop in a tank with really high nitrate levels that is left high.

buzz

I got sick of buying tangs that look perfect and minutes after putting them in, noticing whitespot, so I bought a 80w UV. Problem solved.