Busy day on the Enterprise

Richard Logue

As I write this I have just left Dundalk en route for Dublin. I'm sitting in First Class which has a roughly 50% occupancy rate while Standard has roughly 80% occupancy and hardly a free travel pass holder in sight.

Our train hostess told me in Newry that this was a fairly standard day at the moment so it's good to see the train busy.

I was at the Europa bus station and also saw busy BE and Goldliner buses going in and out, and my connecting train from Great Victoria St was half full.

So not a bad day on public transport in general.

My Ulster Fry was very good too and am just enjoying my third coffee...

Cool_CM

Richard Logue wrote: »

.

My Ulster Fry was very good too and am just enjoying my third coffee...

How are the toilet facilities on the Enterprise? ;-)

corktina

Richard Logue wrote: »

As I write this I have just left Dundalk en route for Dublin. I'm sitting in First Class which has a roughly 50% occupancy rate while Standard has roughly 80% occupancy and hardly a free travel pass holder in sight.

Our train hostess told me in Newry that this was a fairly standard day at the moment so it's good to see the train busy.

I was at the Europa bus station and also saw busy BE and Goldliner buses going in and out, and my connecting train from Great Victoria St was half full.

So not a bad day on public transport in general.

My Ulster Fry was very good too and am just enjoying my third coffee...

well done Richard, a balanced report

Richard Logue

Cool_CM wrote: »

How are the toilet facilities on the Enterprise? ;-)

Well they work but aren't luxurious! They aren't dirty either

foggy_lad

Richard Logue wrote: »

and hardly a free travel pass holder in sight.

Have you checked every ticket??

Richard Logue

Making good progress towards Connolly should make my connection with the 1305 Sligo train *fingers crossed*

Richard Logue

Richard Logue wrote: »

Making good progress towards Connolly should make my connection with the 1305 Sligo train *fingers crossed*

We arrived into Connolly bang on time. Just a short hop over to platform 3 where a packed Sligo train sits.

A 29k :-(

A bit of a come down after the lovely DD first class but at least I have a one of the few remaining seats and am only going to Maynooth...


Adds: we are on our way, bang on time again...

BenShermin

Leaving speed and frequency aside, the Enterprise is the way train travel should be in Ireland.

It has the most comfortable standard class seats on the whole IÉ network imo.
The catering is much better than the other intercity routes, although the choice in standard is poor.
None of the intercity buses on this route have toilets, so that's a big plus for the train.
Both Connolly and Central are only minutes walk from the city centres.
Staff at Connolly don't make you drag luggage through ticket barriers (a real pet peeve of mine)
Fares can be as low as €32.98 return if booked in advance. This is only €7.98 dearer than BÉ!

kingshankly

Great to see satisfied customers and your guard Alice is one of the best.
Most of the enterprises are very busy with the exception of the last one out of each station
Food has improved greatly in the last 6 months a new menu has come out And it's not bad to be fair.
Reliability will always be the big thing for me either regarding engine failures or outside factors (usually in lurgan) playing a part but these problems arnt as frequent as before thank god

n97 mini

What impressed me most about the Enterprise is how clean it's kept, with yer one going up and down every 20 minutes gathering up rubbish.

Catering is over-priced tho, especially in Euro (€6 for a can of Bulmers iirc)

Lapin

BenShermin wrote: »

Both Connolly and Central are only minutes walk from the city centres.

I think Central Station in Belfast has the most misleading name in Ireland.

Its a good walk from town, especially with bags. But at least taxis in Belfast are cheap.

Great Victoria Street is more centrally located and would be a lot handier.

As for Dublin, Connolly isn't as bad (the trams help), but it would be handy if the Enterprise went as far as Pearse.

Although I know it would be a logistical headache.

Jamie2k9

BK please do comment...

dowlingm

there was talk of sending Enterprise back to GVS but I think it's been long fingered?

kingshankly

Lapin wrote: »

I think Central Station in Belfast has the most misleading name in Ireland.

Its a good walk from town, especially with bags. But at least taxis in Belfast are cheap.

Great Victoria Street is more centrally located and would be a lot handier.

As for Dublin, Connolly isn't as bad (the trams help), but it would be handy if the Enterprise went as far as Pearse.

Although I know it would be a logistical headache.

Probably a 5 minute walk to victoria square or a 10 walk to the castle court shopping centre
You could say the same for connolly as in 5 minutes to henry street and 10 to grafton street

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

BK please do comment...

this is a very constructive thread, there's no need for that old pony

Lapin

kingshankly wrote: »

Probably a 5 minute walk to victoria square or a 10 walk to the castle court shopping centre
You could say the same for connolly as in 5 minutes to henry street and 10 to grafton street

Double those times if you have luggage and its pissing rain.
Thats why I said it would be handy if the Enterprise served GVS and Pearse.

Cookie_Monster

corktina wrote: »

this is a very constructive thread, there's no need for that old pony

how is it constructive?

"I got a train today, it was busy. The nice lady spoke to me"

not to mention the completely unfounded assertion on travel pass holders.

nothing more than a completely standard journey on the enterprise service.

ThreeBlindMice

Dose anyone know if the Enterprise has CCTV?

I believe that it is the only train service left in the country without it, the NIR Class 3000, 4000, IR 22,000's and MK4's on the Cork line all have it.

Woodey

I used to work on the Enterprise many years ago, Great to see it still going strong!!!

Terrontress

dowlingm wrote: »

there was talk of sending Enterprise back to GVS but I think it's been long fingered?

Because the turnaround time on the Enterprise is close to an hour, they'll need a dedicated platform to prevent disruption to other services. They'd need to build a platform in the bus yard.

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

this is a very constructive thread, there's no need for that old pony

The only reason he hasn't posted is because the train had good loads, if it was the buses full and the train half full there would be many posts.

Richard Logue

Terrontress wrote: »

Because the turnaround time on the Enterprise is close to an hour, they'll need a dedicated platform to prevent disruption to other services. They'd need to build a platform in the bus yard.

GVS would be a better location than Central as a terminus, after all every other train that passes through Belfast stops there and there would be superb bus connections next door at the Europa Bus Station.

steamengine

Some of the above reminds me of Arlo Guthries classic song ' You can get anything you want in Alice's restaurant' - The Ulster Fry - wow what a clincher !!!

highlydebased

You can get the bus outside the door of Central for free with an Enterprise ticket (down to Donegall street). I think you can also get the connecting train to GVS for free also

Terrontress

Richard Logue wrote: »

GVS would be a better location than Central as a terminus, after all every other train that passes through Belfast stops there and there would be superb bus connections next door at the Europa Bus Station.

And a good hotel there as well, bring a bit of romance back in to rail travel. Good pubs and restaurants, shops for daytrippers. But having the Enterprise cleaned and readied for service will use up a platform that the services going to Bangor, Larne, Newry, Coleraine / Derry need. The bread and butter of NIR.

Grandeeod

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The only reason he hasn't posted is because the train had good loads, if it was the buses full and the train half full there would be many posts.

In fairness, by trying to draw comment from BK, it may look like you are trying to introduce unnecessary disruption to the thread. Not that I think BK is disruptive.Your post looks a bit provocative.

As for the OPs experience, fair enough, but it still wouldn't change my opinion of the future of IC rail. It sounds like he got what he paid for and realistically that should be the norm.

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The only reason he hasn't posted is because the train had good loads, if it was the buses full and the train half full there would be many posts.

they were busy, it says so in the first post...it also says the connecting train was half full

Losty Dublin

steamengine wrote: »

Some of the above reminds me of Arlo Guthries classic song ' You can get anything you want in Alice's restaurant' - The Ulster Fry - wow what a clincher !!!

By the time Arlo has finished signing the song you'd actually have arrived in Belfast

Hilly Bill

Lapin wrote: »

Double those times if you have luggage and its pissing rain.
Thats why I said it would be handy if the Enterprise served GVS and Pearse.

Only 2 minutes if your car is parked in the car park in Connolly or to the taxi's outside.

Defiler Of The Coffin

This thread doesn't seem to correlate with reports of the Enterprise's decline...

Richard Logue

You're right, it doesn't. The trains seem busy, I would have struggled to get a seat if I hadn't booked a First Class seat in advance.

Peppa Pig

Richard Logue wrote: »

You're right, it doesn't. The trains seem busy, I would have struggled to get a seat if I hadn't booked a First Class seat in advance.

Why would you struggle to get a seat if you estimate that the standard carriages were 20% empty.

Richard Logue

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Why would you struggle to get a seat if you estimate that the standard carriages were 20% empty.

Easy, let's say there were people seating at each of the tables or pairs of seats in standard you might wander up the train looking for a completely free seat? I know I would!

Peppa Pig

Richard Logue wrote: »

Easy, let's say there were people seating at each of the tables or pairs of seats in standard you might wander up the train looking for a completely free seat? I know I would!

So you'd look for a couple of free seats together.

Con Logue

Peppa Pig wrote: »

So you'd look for a couple of free seats together.

Or I could be a big fat guy and plonk my sweaty self beside some random person with my legs apart. Choose a seat? Pshaw.

Grandeeod

Con Logue wrote: »

Or I could be a big fat guy and plonk my sweaty self beside some random person with my legs apart. Choose a seat? Pshaw.

What an unfortunate thing to say. Adds nothing to the thread, but whats new.

corktina

the thread started so well too

Victor

On topic, please

Moderator

eejoynt

I am an occasional user; the only quibbles I would have is with the part provided by NIR
Seat fabric cleaning and deep cleaning of coaches seems to be non existent
Wi fi my b****x, it doesn't work except from portadown to belfast

dublinbusdude

Myself, my Bro & Dad went on it on Saturday - got to Belfast Central for 11:43 (4 mins early) - coming home got into Connolly for 20:11 (again 4 mins early). Got a free trip on NI Railways up to the Titanic Quarter stop for Titanic Belfast which the museum must say its worth the monies!

Some of the posts are right about it be clean all the time just they need to do more different foods e.g. give the standard class the same a 1st class!

Great to see IR & Translink doing Free WiFi on it now per to the last time I was on it in 2006 there wasn't Free WiFi on it

bk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

BK please do comment...

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The only reason he hasn't posted is because the train had good loads, if it was the buses full and the train half full there would be many posts.

Sorry to disappoint you Jamie, but the reason I didn't post is because I was too busy kayaking through spectacular country side in 30c weather in Poland

To be honest even if I was here, I would heave no quibbles with the OP. I've never taken the train to Belfast, so I find it a very interesting and insightful post.

In fact from what is written here, it seems to have many of the elements that are needed to make sure IC rail survives to Cork, Limerick, etc.

Most importantly it seems affordable, €33 more then 7 days in advance, €35 return one day in advance. Seems like pretty reasonable prices, not significantly much more expensive then the bus.

Add to that, the fact that the buses to Belfast don't have toilets and it seems that these trains are pretty comfortable and have decent food, I can now certainly understand why the intercity coach services haven't done so well.

If they could do similar to Cork, say max €40 return including all booking fees, no need to book online and improve the catering, then I think it would do much better too.

I'm impressed that they offer free bus and rail transfers to GSV. Irish Rail could learn from that and offer free luas/bus transfers to city center and connolly.

I think the issue that the enterprise has suffered from over the years is reliability, with many break downs. If I'm not mistaken they have now introduced new power carriage (?) that should help with this.

It also seems that the service would benefit greatly from being moved to GSV.

In the longer term if they could reduce journey times while keeping these low prices, it could be a very successful service and have a healthy future.

I think the reported loses in passenger numbers on the other thread is due to a few factors:

- Recession, less people travelling
- Much faster by car on the new motorway
- Belfast no longer significantly cheaper for shopping then in the south, specially with amazon/parcel motel.

I think the buses on the motorway have had a less impact, due to the relatively low price difference and lack of toilets.

This does show that Aircoach really need to get toilet equipped coaches on this route in order to compete better or offer even cheaper prices.

corktina

are toilets that important? I'm an old guy but can still manage my functions for a couple of hours..i don't think I have ever used a train or plane loo... I think I went to UK on a "Slattery's" coach once (Eurolines) and there was a loo o it it think....didn't use that either

bk

corktina wrote: »

are toilets that important? I'm an old guy but can still manage my functions for a couple of hours..i don't think I have ever used a train or plane loo... I think I went to UK on a "Slattery's" coach once (Eurolines) and there was a loo o it it think....didn't use that either

I honestly believe that on any trip two hours or more they are.

You might never use it, but most people feel more comfortable knowing it is there if they get caught short.

On the GoBE to Cork, when I last used it, it was 50% full and the toilet got used 7 times.

markpb

corktina wrote: »

are toilets that important? I'm an old guy but can still manage my functions for a couple of hours..i don't think I have ever used a train or plane loo... I think I went to UK on a "Slattery's" coach once (Eurolines) and there was a loo o it it think....didn't use that either

It depends on the customer. Some old people, pregnant women, etc wouldn't be able to make a 2h journey without them. I'd agree it isn't as important on the Dublin - Belfast route as some of the others.

Richard Logue

Of course The Enterprise is run as a joint venture between Irish Rail and Translink and is therefore run significantly differently from the other Irish Rail Inter City services.

The Enterprise does have the advantage that it comes into Connolly rather than Heuston, and City Centre interchanges are free at both the Dublin and the Belfast ends.

The ticket prices are competitive with coaches for Standard Class, and I think in general how the Enterprise is usually close to capacity most days is good, even though there are several coach alternatives and of course the Motorway. Despite the similar journey times due to speed restrictions the trains are still busy, though obviously not at the levels they were at during the boom years.

How can the other IC services learn from this?

Free interchanges with the Luas from Heuston and a similar pricing structure might well help. Speed increases will help too but in the short term the prices might be a factor.

kingshankly

corktina wrote: »

are toilets that important? I'm an old guy but can still manage my functions for a couple of hours..i don't think I have ever used a train or plane loo... I think I went to UK on a "Slattery's" coach once (Eurolines) and there was a loo o it it think....didn't use that either

Maybe it's the parent in me but for me traveling with 2 small kids toilets would be a must plus the toilets having baby changing facilities would also be a must for some parents I'm sure plus the fact your kids have slightly more freedom on board a train and 4 seats with a table is very handy for colouring in , games etc

corktina

actually what I meant was is it a deal breaker if there is no toilet on board? It wouldn't be for me and I would assume most people would be going for the coach on cost grounds and maybe wouldn't care if it had a loo or not as long as it were cheaper.

In kingshankly's case, presumably then you wouldn't consider the coach even if it did have a loo...

bk

Richard Logue wrote: »

How can the other IC services learn from this?

Free interchanges with the Luas from Heuston and a similar pricing structure might well help. Speed increases will help too but in the short term the prices might be a factor.

Yes, excatly, while the Enterprise service has had it's own, different issues, mostly around reliability, it definitely has gotten some things very right and I think there are lessons for IR to learn from it.

I think for the Cork route to remain competitive do the following:

- Make a single ticket max €20
- Get rid of the stupid booking fees
- Make the above fare the same if booked online or walk up.
- Booking online guarantees your seat and allows you to select it as now, but no charge for doing this.
- Allow you to change your booking online for free
- Allow you to take an earlier or later train with an online booking, you just aren't guaranteed your seat.
- Include free luas/bus transfer to city center and connolly in the ticket price
- Improve the catering, put cost coffee onboard, better food menu, etc.

corktina wrote: »

actually what I meant was is it a deal breaker if there is no toilet on board? It wouldn't be for me and I would assume most people would be going for the coach on cost grounds and maybe wouldn't care if it had a loo or not as long as it were cheaper.

The thing is it is definitely a deal breaker for some people. For instance two of my Corkonian friends living in Dublin had stuck with the train until the latest price increases. They have now switched to GoBE. They decided on the GoBE service as having a toilet was a must for them.

Toilets on new buses really don't cost much extra to do and takes up little extra space (max two seats). So I think it is well worth doing when buying new coaches to attract the extra customers who might be put off using a coach without a toilet.

I'm certain if Aircoach were to buy/lease new coaches today, they would order ones with toilets onboard for their intercity services. The reason most of their existing coaches don't have toilets on board is simply because they were originally ordered and speced only for a max 1 hour journey around Dublin area to the airport.

Given the fall in work to the airport, they have now simply switched their old coaches over to intercity work. I'm certain they will eventually replace these coaches with new coaches and they will have toilets when they do.

dowlingm

Not every thread has to be about Cork lads - just most of them

The Enterprise is not wholly under IE's control and suggestions regarding it have to take the NIR/Translink factor into consideration.

Grandeeod

I think Richard Logue hit a nail on the head by suggesting that IC services arriving in Heuston should have a free transfer to city centre/connolly. I know others have suggested it over the years and have been derided here for it.

Judgement Day

Grandeeod wrote: »

I think Richard Logue hit a nail on the head by suggesting that IC services arriving in Heuston should have a free transfer to city centre/connolly. I know others have suggested it over the years and have been derided here for it.

It's a no brainer which is why CIE can't do it. For as long as I'm travelling to Belfast there has been a free service to the city centre and, before the cross city line opened, a free service to York Road. I well remember back in the 1970s and early 80's CIE operating double deckers between Heuston and Bachelors Walk. You had to pay full whack and wait until the bus filled up before it left - even if it meant waiting for another incoming train; drag your luggage upstairs and then the bus would proceed slowly down the quays to allow the conductor time to collect the fares - you couldn't make it up.