Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD

taytobreath

AdMMM wrote: »

Have FF really co-opted Gary Wyse's son to the sole FF seat in Waterford? *facepalm*

Ok. I was wondering about this myself, on what credentials can a person succeed to be a F.F councillor for Waterford City?

Max Powers

AdMMM wrote: »

Have FF really co-opted Gary Wyse's son to the sole FF seat in Waterford? *facepalm*

personally, im not too concerned, first off the lad probably has a good bit of interest in local council business and secondly and more importantly, there is local elections in the summer isnt there so for the sake of 6 months, i think its a decent gesture in memory of a well respected councillor/man. Im sure FF or any party dont want to go thru an internal election thing when they have the real deal coming up in 6 months.

7upfree

AdMMM wrote: »

Have FF really co-opted Gary Wyse's son to the sole FF seat in Waterford? *facepalm*

Old news. There should be no such thing as co-option in any event. Locally or nationally.

Max Powers

7upfree wrote: »

Old news. There should be no such thing as co-option in any event. Locally or nationally.

yeah i get what you are saying in principle and agree with it but that would leave the good people of City north/west/south?? unrepresented so there is good reason why they do it.

7upfree

Max Powers wrote: »

yeah i get what you are saying in principle and agree with it but that would leave the good people of City north/west/south?? unrepresented so there is good reason why they do it.

I can see where you're coming from, given the short time frame. But surely organising a small local election isn't that difficult?

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from, given the short time frame. But surely organising a small local election isn't that difficult?

Its costly for a start. Schools would have to be closed, for the sake of one candidate. Its a daft idea.

I don't see a problem with a list type system that has backup candidates ready to step in.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Its costly for a start. Schools would have to be closed, for the sake of one candidate. Its a daft idea.

I don't see a problem with a list type system that has backup candidates ready to step in.

It's anti-democratic. Even dafter. But, given the pact operated by FG and the others, to be expected really. Who should fill that seat is the candidate outside the 15 who didn't make it - and who has the next biggest amount of votes in that ward.

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

It's anti-democratic. Even dafter. But, given the pact operated by FG and the others, to be expected really. Who should fill that seat is the candidate outside the 15 who didn't make it - and who has the next biggest amount of votes in that ward.

It's simply not feasible and it makes absolutely no sense to run an election for one candidate in such circumstances. The turn out would be piss poor and the cost would be large. But yes, its a ploy from FG. You weren't supposed to notice!

I sometimes wonder how far from reality you live, between this and the suggestion that the quay works are simple and should have been done in a few weeks (comparing it to your gardener! :P)

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

It's simply not feasible and it makes absolutely no sense to run an election for one candidate in such circumstances. The turn out would be piss poor and the cost would be large. But yes, its a ploy from FG. You weren't supposed to notice!

I sometimes wonder how far from reality you live, between this and the suggestion that the quay works are simple and should have been done in a few weeks (comparing it to your gardener! :P)

Jaysus Sully what happened to the "attack the post not the poster" rule? Looks like it doesn't apply to you! No surprises there.:)

i think your comments above show detached from reality you are yourself.

So now you can predict with certainty what the turnout of a poll will be. Fcuk - I'd say MRBI would have you in a heartbeat!:D Newsflash - FG are part of a pact. Have been for years. Or hadn't you noticed?

And yes indeed - those Quay roadworks (which you claimed would be "finished by november - wrong again as usual) are quite simple. Talk to any architect, civil engineer, etc and they will confirm this for you. But - hey - they're probably all wrong as well!

Must be nice to be a wizard though.:rolleyes:

wellboytoo

Any truth in the rumour 7 up free is running in the local elections for the Anti Christ party?

7upfree

wellboytoo wrote: »

Any truth in the rumour 7 up free is running in the local elections for the Anti Christ party?

Feck it - how did that get out?!:D

LiamD1977

In September 2012 the Indo published a list of local councillors and expenses,

Cant find it online

Any ideas as I would like to have a look at it before the canvassing starts

Sully

LiamD1977 wrote: »

In September 2012 the Indo published a list of local councillors and expenses,

Cant find it online

Any ideas as I would like to have a look at it before the canvassing starts

This seems to be the introduction article;
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-pay-and-perks-of-your-local-councillors-26893331.html

But I assumed the individual lists are not published on the website? I searched an advance search for the day it was to be released (3rd September for Munster) but not getting anything but someone with more time and patience might pick it up.

nice_very

from another thread on 04/09/2012:

Tom Cunningham €34,648
Davy Daniels, € 31,196
Jim Darcy € 27,977
Mary Roche € 48,966
Jack Walshe € 23,706
Gary Wyse €24.666
Pat Hayes € 51,466
Hilary Quinlan € 39,460
Dick Roche € 26, 205
Davy Walsh € 20,000
John Cummins €31,314
Cha O Neill €36,071
Seamus Ryan €42,532

These cost include salary and expenses.

Sully

nice_very wrote: »

from another thread on 04/09/2012:

Tom Cunningham €34,648
Davy Daniels, € 31,196
Jim Darcy € 27,977
Mary Roche € 48,966
Jack Walshe € 23,706
Gary Wyse €24.666
Pat Hayes € 51,466
Hilary Quinlan € 39,460
Dick Roche € 26, 205
Davy Walsh € 20,000
John Cummins €31,314
Cha O Neill €36,071
Seamus Ryan €42,532

These cost include salary and expenses.

Missing a few there, for whatever reason.

nice_very

Sully wrote: »

Missing a few there, for whatever reason.

due to the reason that they were co-opted onto the council due to Cullinanes election to the Senate, Halligans election to the Dail and a labour retirement all in 2011 so I could not find any figures for Reindhart, Hearne or Jacques.

funny how I found those figures ON BOARDS.IE in less than 2 minutes, through google, while you Sully with your fancy searches couldnt find anything other than an Irish Independent article.

Max Powers

nice_very wrote: »

from another thread on 04/09/2012:

Tom Cunningham €34,648
Davy Daniels, € 31,196
Jim Darcy € 27,977
Mary Roche € 48,966
Jack Walshe € 23,706
Gary Wyse €24.666
Pat Hayes € 51,466
Hilary Quinlan € 39,460
Dick Roche € 26, 205
Davy Walsh € 20,000
John Cummins €31,314
Cha O Neill €36,071
Seamus Ryan €42,532

These cost include salary and expenses.

nice work nice very. looking down thru that list and you have to think, we could do with half of them as i dont see value for money. drop half of them and hire another 10 part time people to work in refuse/bins, maintenance etc in the city

LiamD1977

What gets me about these expenses is how they vary,

Seamus Ryan at 42k

Mary Roche at 48k

Pat Hayes at 51k

Then you have Davy Walsh and Dick Roche down around 20k,

hardybuck

Although I'm sure there is perfectly transparent explanation, you'd wonder how the likes of Mary Roche and Pat Hayes are claiming around 2.5 times as much as Davy Walsh is. Are people getting 2.5 times the service?

When you take the City Councillers, County Councillers, and then add in places like Tramore and Lismore, you can see that we're quite heavily staffed, especially when you factor that we've general staff working in all of those offices also.

As another poster mentioned, I'm sure that some of that expenditure could be spent more wisely around the county.

Max Powers

hardybuck wrote: »

Although I'm sure there is perfectly transparent explanation, you'd wonder how the likes of Mary Roche and Pat Hayes are claiming around 2.5 times as much as Davy Walsh is. Are people getting 2.5 times the service?

When you take the City Councillers, County Councillers, and then add in places like Tramore and Lismore, you can see that we're quite heavily staffed, especially when you factor that we've general staff working in all of those offices also.

As another poster mentioned, I'm sure that some of that expenditure could be spent more wisely around the county.

i think pat hayes was mayor at the time so would have more expenses which we can recognise. mary roches expenses might have been the residual spending done on that 'very productive' nice trip to some cities in USA. Money well spent, sure havent we seen a whole load of US FDI jobs announced since then in these existing factories. give me a break. Seriously though, id say Davy Walsh has expenses half of other because he isnt milking it and is in general regarded as a decent bloke.

AdMMM

For those who say that Councillors earn tonnes of money, just look at what the base salary of Davy Walsh is... a mere €20,000. For the work Councillors do (or the work they're required to do to stand a chance of re-election), I think that's a very small amount.

With such a small base salary, you can immediately see why there's an incentive for Councillors to travel around the country for conferences to claim mileage and expenses.

It's also important to note that the vast majority of these additional expenses don't actually go into the pocket of Councillors, as is a commonly held belief, especially when you see a large figure beside someone's name... they go to conference organisers, which can be a lucrative business in Ireland. The way Councillors would benefit from this is by claiming mileage (the mileage rate is greater than the cost of the fuel) and by having meals included in the conference fee.

If the base salary was increased to a respectable level, we would see less Councillors travel hundreds of miles for conferences and instead attend local ones, while also allowing for more time to do their job as a Councillor.

Max Powers

i was just thinking about the 25,000 sqft facility the IDA say they are going to build in Tech Park/Butlerstown (munster express).
The facility that paypal moved into in Dundalk was approx 150,000sqft.
Regeneron who moved into the old dell site is 400,000 sq ft.
Nypro facility on estate is 210,000

I know they (FG/IDA) are trumping this as a great thing and anything positive is a good thing, I dont want to be negative but I just wonder what kinda jobs they expect to go in there because it would seem out of line to what companies are actually looking for. Further to that, it just looks like a token gesture on our ability to attract med-big jobs announcements.


http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/regeneron-in-final-talks-to-take-over-dells-irish-facility-29436055.html
http://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/news/business/location-of-new-dundalk-paypal-facility-revealed-1-3783679

This isnt an attack on Fg/IDA but just a bit of my natural scepticism especially when i see govt/IDA bigging-up something. I may be way off the mark and this facility might be for a different sector altogether.

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

i was just thinking about the 25,000 sqft facility the IDA say they are going to build in Tech Park/Butlerstown (munster express).
The facility that paypal moved into in Dundalk was approx 150,000sqft.
Regeneron who moved into the old dell site is 400,000 sq ft.
Nypro facility on estate is 210,000

I know they (FG/IDA) are trumping this as a great thing and anything positive is a good thing, I dont want to be negative but I just wonder what kinda jobs they expect to go in there because it would seem out of line to what companies are actually looking for. Further to that, it just looks like a token gesture on our ability to attract med-big jobs announcements.


http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/regeneron-in-final-talks-to-take-over-dells-irish-facility-29436055.html
http://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/news/business/location-of-new-dundalk-paypal-facility-revealed-1-3783679

This isnt an attack on Fg/IDA but just a bit of my natural scepticism especially when i see govt/IDA bigging-up something. I may be way off the mark and this facility might be for a different sector altogether.

IDA have planning permission for a 30,000 square foot building. That would be same size as the building they have out there currently. 80% of the existing building is full, which is something I suppose.

With the Dundalk and Limerick sites you mentioned, the IDA provided neither of them. Limerick used to be Dell, and Dundalk was owned by a private company.

While I get your point regarding the IDA sites being too small, we have the Waterford Crystal facility, which I understand is being fitted out for offices by Frisby. This would have more than enough space if it was cleaned up properly, and if it isn't it'll turn in to a permanent eyesore.

Max Powers

hardybuck wrote: »

IDA have planning permission for a 30,000 square foot building. That would be same size as the building they have out there currently. 80% of the existing building is full, which is something I suppose.

With the Dundalk and Limerick sites you mentioned, the IDA provided neither of them. Limerick used to be Dell, and Dundalk was owned by a private company.

While I get your point regarding the IDA sites being too small, we have the Waterford Crystal facility, which I understand is being fitted out for offices by Frisby. This would have more than enough space if it was cleaned up properly, and if it isn't it'll turn in to a permanent eyesore.

Planning application and paper say 25,000 sqft. Anyway, more importantly, if that is true about the privately owned sites, just underlines the need for more of those sites in Waterford and the ones IDA should be building. Alas, I have more hope of something good happening in old Crystal site than IDA one.

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

Planning application and paper say 25,000 sqft. Anyway, more importantly, if that is true about the privately owned sites, just underlines the need for more of those sites in Waterford and the ones IDA should be building. Alas, I have more hope of something good happening in old Crystal site than IDA one.

IDA website mentions that planning permission has been approved for a 30,000 square foot facility.

LiamD1977

Just noticed our own Hilary Quinlan ( FG Councillor ) is now on the board of Irish Water

Sully

LiamD1977 wrote: »

Just noticed our own Hilary Quinlan ( FG Councillor ) is now on the board of Irish Water

Whooo! Free water for the deise!

somahoney74

Sully wrote: »

Whooo! Free water for the deise!

More jobs for the boys, handy little earner!

Sully

somahoney74 wrote: »

More jobs for the boys, handy little earner!

It needed a deise man to keep them all in check!

nice_very

Sully, I find your last 2 posts to be typical of your party's attitude towards Waterford. Joking about an issue that will put thousands more families under the poverty line is not a laughing matter. I suppose you welcome his appointment and support water charges too?