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Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD
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Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 21860
Sully, I find your last 2 posts to be typical of your party's attitude towards Waterford. Joking about an issue that will put thousands more families under the poverty line is not a laughing matter. I suppose you welcome his appointment and support water charges too?
I fail to see how his appointment will result in 'thousands more families under the poverty line'. I don't particular care that he was appointed, I have never met the chap in my life! Put a Fianna Fail or Sinn Fein TD in there for all I care. I have no idea why a political appointment was made or why a low figure Cllr from Waterford was given the seat. I can't see it impacting on us in anyway.
But yeah, I support water charges in theory. If it's done fairly and done right, I don't have an issue with a charge that a lot of countries in the EU already have (and Ireland has to a large degree already, depending where you are). This was being proposed well before FG/Lab got into government and I supported it then too.0 -
You know full well the issue is the impending water charges, which you state that you support. The appointment of HQ former FG mayor/councillor is surprising, however I suggest that having a FG'er rather than a Deiseman is more in the line of any check keeping.
I had to laugh at your "if its done fairly and done right" comment, not until your crowd, Lab and FF are booted out of everything to do with public life will anything be done fairly and right in this country.
pre-emptive response: no, I'm not a "shinner" or member of any party.0 -
It will be interesting to hear why they needed to spend €50 million on consultancy for a system thats already be in place and "working well" in other parts of europe. If its proven to work in other countries copy the bloody thing. I have no doubt studies need to be carried out etc but to the tune of €50 million?
come on :rolleyes:0 -
Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
You know full well the issue is the impending water charges, which you state that you support. The appointment of HQ former FG mayor/councillor is surprising, however I suggest that having a FG'er rather than a Deiseman is more in the line of any check keeping.
I had to laugh at your "if its done fairly and done right" comment, not until your crowd, Lab and FF are booted out of everything to do with public life will anything be done fairly and right in this country.
pre-emptive response: no, I'm not a "shinner" or member of any party.
Welcome to the future. I'd wager a lot of people understand and support the idea of water charges, in theory. It's been on the cards for a long time and it was badly needed. As I said, a lot of people already pay water rates depending on where they are. It's not completely new to Ireland.
I couldn't give a feck what party or candidate you support, what business is it of mine? We are all entitled to our opinions and support who we like.It will be interesting to hear why they needed to spend €50 million on consultancy for a system thats already be in place and "working well" in other parts of europe. If its proven to work in other countries copy the bloody thing. I have no doubt studies need to be carried out etc but to the tune of €50 million?
come on :rolleyes:
Well, that's being a little too critical. Just because it's working and implemented in other parts of the world doesn't mean the blue print and setup is a flick of a switch for Ireland. I think the money is crazy and raises eyebrows myself, and you have someone from the North's Water supply coming on and blaming the speed at which it's being implemented in Ireland to try justify the cost.
I just hope it's implemented right and fair. If not, you won't be seeing me support the measure.0 -
It will be interesting to hear why they needed to spend €50 million on consultancy for a system thats already be in place and "working well" in other parts of europe. If its proven to work in other countries copy the bloody thing. I have no doubt studies need to be carried out etc but to the tune of €50 million?
come on :rolleyes:
The figure has been explained poorly to the public in the media. What we're talking about is the start up of a large organisation. While €50m is a lot of money to most people, in terms of the scale of what they're doing and in terms of what comparable sized companies would spend in this type of situation, it's not.
Also, often this type of expenditure is often viewed as an investment rather than a spend. For example, if they mess up their billing system, how much disruption and cost will that incur to all involved?
Consultancy in this instance wouldn't just be paying people for their advice and experience, it would be for stuff like for procuring IT systems, which would be significant for a company like Irish Water.
As Irish Water are now only really bringing most of their staff, ordinary people - working for the consultancy companies, would have been brought in to perform roles until people were hired. That would be presented as a consultancy cost rather than salaries of their own staff - which they didn't have yet.
People in Ireland abuse water. Waste is massive, and I see people do that every day of the week. Until you pay for something, you don't value it. It is delivered to us at a cost, so why wouldn't you expect to pay for it!? If electricity was free we'd never conserve it.
Clearly there are issues with leaky pipes etc. which is unacceptable, but it's a Catch 22 - without more funding not enough pipes will be mended. The less water we leak into the ground, the less the cost of producing it will be, which will cost the consumer less.0 -
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I think its a great thing that some new names getting involved for local elections 2014.
I spotted a Jason Murphy for FF and a Liz Murphy for FF ( don't know if they are related )
From his Facebook page Jason Murphy seems to be fairly involved in the community,
Liz Murphy's page seems a lot thinner experience wise. She also has shocking grammar which would put me right off.0 -
Why was the position on the board not advertised? Why should any political party have the privilege of appointing anybody to any board. Corrupt government the same as every government before and into the future!! Jobs for the boys!!! By far, the most corrupt country in Europe, sick to the teeth of all political parties lies. Take Pat Rabbitte, before the last election I thought, fair enough his points are good, gets into govt. and says sure you'll say whatever it takes . That's the political standard in Ireland!!! Sick to the pit of my stomach of them all, they're all liars out for their own benefit!!!0
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somahoney74 wrote: »By far, the most corrupt country in Europe
Completely untrue. Ireland's public sector was recently placed in 21st place in the International Corruption Perception Index. This was a improvement from 2012.
This score would indicate that there are at least 157 countries which suffer worse corruption than Ireland. It would also make Ireland less corrupt than of 19 of the 28 EU members.
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/0 -
Welcome to the future. I'd wager a lot of people understand and support the idea of water charges, in theory. It's been on the cards for a long time and it was badly needed.
Badly needed? Are you actually away with the birds or something? Either that or you're just a WUM. There are THOUSANDS on the breadline. Just because you aren't doesn't mean they're not. I hope it always stays fine for you. Extra charges and taxes could tip people into a very dark financial abyss.
You mention earlier that you "don't really care" how people are appointed. You should - we all should.As I said, a lot of people already pay water rates depending on where they are. It's not completely new to Ireland.
If it were water rates to improve and develop the system then fair enough. The rates are being charged because your heroes converted a gambling debt into sovereign debt. This is the reality. And now they've "lost" the records relating to the banking scandal.I couldn't give a feck what party or candidate you support, what business is it of mine? We are all entitled to our opinions and support who we like.
Again this is what has the country in the position it is in. A political party placed before the City and Country. You take offence at the merest highlighting of the antics of this Government - particularly against this City. Your judgement is - and always has been - clouded by your political loyalties.Well, that's being a little too critical. Just because it's working and implemented in other parts of the world doesn't mean the blue print and setup is a flick of a switch for Ireland.
OK - what, precisely, is happening? A billing system and database has to be built in order to present a bill to a householder. There is no doubt that there will be no investment in the network. This is not rocket science. And certainly should not cost €50m. FG/Labour drove FF out of dodge, citing mismanagement, wastage, nepotism, et al. Has anything actually changed except the names?I just hope it's implemented right and fair. If not, you won't be seeing me support the measure.
I doubt it somehow.0 -
Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
Badly needed? Are you actually away with the birds or something? Either that or you're just a WUM. There are THOUSANDS on the breadline. Just because you aren't doesn't mean they're not. I hope it always stays fine for you. Extra charges and taxes could tip people into a very dark financial abyss.
You mention earlier that you "don't really care" how people are appointed. You should - we all should.
If it were water rates to improve and develop the system then fair enough. The rates are being charged because your heroes converted a gambling debt into sovereign debt. This is the reality. And now they've "lost" the records relating to the banking scandal.
Again this is what has the country in the position it is in. A political party placed before the City and Country. You take offence at the merest highlighting of the antics of this Government - particularly against this City. Your judgement is - and always has been - clouded by your political loyalties.
OK - what, precisely, is happening? A billing system and database has to be built in order to present a bill to a householder. There is no doubt that there will be no investment in the network. This is not rocket science. And certainly should not cost €50m. FG/Labour drove FF out of dodge, citing mismanagement, wastage, nepotism, et al. Has anything actually changed except the names?
I doubt it somehow.
Your fascination with me amuses me but at the same time, slightly disturbs me. :pac:0 -
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Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
No answer to it though - is there?:) Especially when it's presented in black and white.
It doesn't matter what answer I give, you will still attack attack and well, attack. Even when facts are put in front that defeat your point, you just disregard them and go on the attack. I really don't want to waste time debating with someone like that, and I don't know why I bothered giving you my time back in the first place tbh. :pac:0 -
It doesn't matter what answer I give, you will still attack attack and well, attack. Even when facts are put in front that defeat your point, you just disregard them and go on the attack. I really don't want to waste time debating with someone like that, and I don't know why I bothered giving you my time back in the first place tbh. :pac:
It is very frustrating but when you outed her as a woman it all became clear. Remember that lovely line from Nicholson in As good as it gets.
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.0 -
Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
wellboytoo wrote: »It is very frustrating but when you outed her as a woman it all became clear. Remember that lovely line from Nicholson in As good as it gets.
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.
Hey now, I didn't 'out' anybody! It was said several times by others since around the first time 7up joined us on the Waterford Forum
Personally, I don't think it matters at all. I enjoy a good awl debate, man woman or dog! (Terms & Conditions apply) 0 -
Hey now, I didn't 'out' anybody! It was said several times by others since around the first time 7up joined us on the Waterford Forum Personally, I don't think it matters at all. I enjoy a good awl debate, man woman or dog! (Terms & Conditions apply)
Mea culpa thought it was you, and I'm only stirring the pot.0 -
It doesn't matter what answer I give, you will still attack attack and well, attack. Even when facts are put in front that defeat your point, you just disregard them and go on the attack. I really don't want to waste time debating with someone like that, and I don't know why I bothered giving you my time back in the first place tbh. :pac:
In fairness boy, you don't really have any answers. How, precisely, are my points "defeated"? You don't want to debate because you are defending the indefensible - for a political party. Astonishing really.:)0 -
wellboytoo wrote: »It is very frustrating but when you outed her as a woman it all became clear. Remember that lovely line from Nicholson in As good as it gets.
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.
Never had ya down for a fan of chick flicks!:D Takes all sorts I suppose......0 -
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I didnt mean that it should be as easy as copy and pasting the systems that are in place in other countries, i accept that things can differ and must be amended etc im just pointing out that its not something thats being designed from scratch and if its being conveyd as such and thats what the costs are being attributed to then its just the same oul money scam for the lads as usual.Well, that's being a little too critical. Just because it's working and implemented in other parts of the world doesn't mean the blue print and setup is a flick of a switch for Ireland. I think the money is crazy and raises eyebrows myself, and you have someone from the North's Water supply coming on and blaming the speed at which it's being implemented in Ireland to try justify the cost.
I just hope it's implemented right and fair. If not, you won't be seeing me support the measure.People in Ireland abuse water. Waste is massive, and I see people do that every day of the week. Until you pay for something, you don't value it. It is delivered to us at a cost, so why wouldn't you expect to pay for it!? If electricity was free we'd never conserve it.
Clearly there are issues with leaky pipes etc. which is unacceptable, but it's a Catch 22 - without more funding not enough pipes will be mended. The less water we leak into the ground, the less the cost of producing it will be, which will cost the consumer less.
I caught a glance at an article somewhere (i know thats a vague as you can get before actually writing nothing lol) but i noticed we have been likend to Iceland in terms of our water usage/infrastructure and it seems they pay near on €750 per annum??
Irish water warned that the water charge may rise in times of drought or other shortages, so even if people cut down on using water during the summer but the pipes still piss water into the ground causing a shortage we still have to pay increased charges?
Irish Water can increase the rate they charge if they do not make enough money so where does that leave the people who do actually conserve the water? we will just end up paying more for less, it seems to the an on going theme with life in ireland these days which seems to be getting worse and worse.
The public get extorted once again.0 -
so Sully, when Irish water gets sold off (privatised) and people might have to pay hundreds (if not over 1000) a year more, will it still benefit the Irish people and will the bills every few months still be something to welcome??? I saw news today that in Dublin (Finglas I think) that 30 meters were dug up overnight and thrown away.. while others elsewhere have to be re-installed due to shoddy work.. do you people not see there is a huge opposition to these meters and the charges and all that come with them.. I wager you do but you are so tethered to the party line you cant see past the blue shirts.
you recently said in response to a post of mine "welcome to the future" this from a self confessed civil war party supporter...? Makes sense sticking to the blue shirt roots I suppose since your crowd want a fascist europe0 -
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I caught a glance at an article somewhere (i know thats a vague as you can get before actually writing nothing lol) but i noticed we have been likend to Iceland in terms of our water usage/infrastructure and it seems they pay near on €750 per annum??
Irish water warned that the water charge may rise in times of drought or other shortages, so even if people cut down on using water during the summer but the pipes still piss water into the ground causing a shortage we still have to pay increased charges?
Irish Water can increase the rate they charge if they do not make enough money so where does that leave the people who do actually conserve the water? we will just end up paying more for less, it seems to the an on going theme with life in ireland these days which seems to be getting worse and worse.
The public get extorted once again.
I reckon you're an Irish Independant reader then!? If so, you'll have seen at the top of their recent article that Irish people are expected to pay average bills of €250-300. The way people make exaggerations around figures is hilarious. I heard it'll cost €10k a year...
Why would what Iceland are doing be relevant to us!? They have hot water from geysers pumped into their homes for heating!
You need to start thinking of water as a resource. It is a product delivered to us at a cost. If we have less of it, it wouldn't be a huge injustice to expect to pay more for it. If we suffer oil shortages, your electricity prices go up.
People will begin to install storage units to capture rain which is currently going down their drains. They'll use that to water their garden, flush toilets, for their animals. In particular, we don't need to be flushing drinking water down toilets, so if just that changed we'd be making a big improvement.0 -
I reckon you're an Irish Independant reader then!? If so, you'll have seen at the top of their recent article that Irish people are expected to pay average bills of €250-300. The way people make exaggerations around figures is hilarious. I heard it'll cost €10k a year...
Why would what Iceland are doing be relevant to us!? They have hot water from geysers pumped into their homes for heating!
You need to start thinking of water as a resource. It is a product delivered to us at a cost. If we have less of it, it wouldn't be a huge injustice to expect to pay more for it. If we suffer oil shortages, your electricity prices go up.
People will begin to install storage units to capture rain which is currently going down their drains. They'll use that to water their garden, flush toilets, for their animals. In particular, we don't need to be flushing drinking water down toilets, so if just that changed we'd be making a big improvement.
Never bought the independant in my life.
Didnt see that bit but i would imagine this €300 is the standard charge that everyone pays before the metering kicks in fully? It certainly wont stay at €300.
I dont know why we were compared to iceland, thats just what i saw. €750 seems a bit more believable in terms of future costs though.
I do think of water as a resource, i have no doubt its delivered at a cost but how much of the water is being used by households and how much is lost before it even gets to the house? For example if a house uses €300 of water a year, but a further €300 is lost before it gets to the house its still costing €600 to supply that water, who will pay the cost for the unused water?
One statistic mentions that something close to 41% of water is lost before it even reaches the houses, one of the highest figures in europe. Will we be paying mid to low rates with a stat like that or does the €750 per annum seem a bit more believable now?If one were to use the average price of water across Western Europe (€1.91 per 1,000 litres per month) that would give the average consumer a bill of €7.30 per month or €87.67 per year, assuming there is no free allocation. Given that the average household has 2.78 people, the yield would be about €339m (assuming full collection). To generate €500m in revenue the average household charge would be €360 or about €129.31 per person.
The question here is, is €500m enough? if not then Irish Water is free to increase the charges. Want to conserve water by adding in water buts to reduce the cost of your water bill? No point because as demand drops Irish water can increase the charge to make as much money as they want.
This is not a conservation exercise if it was then pipes would be mended etc, its a profit generating exercise due to irish water being allowed charge households what ever they like to make a profit, no matter what conservation meaures people adopt people cannot decrease the cost of water, gas and electricity is different in that respect.
Its all to open for the money making side and all to restricted on the households ability to reduce/manage their costs.0 -
Never bought the independant in my life.
Didnt see that bit but i would imagine this €300 is the standard charge that everyone pays before the metering kicks in fully? It certainly wont stay at €300.
I dont know why we were compared to iceland, thats just what i saw. €750 seems a bit more believable in terms of future costs though.
I do think of water as a resource, i have no doubt its delivered at a cost but how much of the water is being used by households and how much is lost before it even gets to the house? For example if a house uses €300 of water a year, but a further €300 is lost before it gets to the house its still costing €600 to supply that water, who will pay the cost for the unused water?
One statistic mentions that something close to 41% of water is lost before it even reaches the houses, one of the highest figures in europe. Will we be paying mid to low rates with a stat like that or does the €750 per annum seem a bit more believable now?
The question here is, is €500m enough? if not then Irish Water is free to increase the charges. Want to conserve water by adding in water buts to reduce the cost of your water bill? No point because as demand drops Irish water can increase the charge to make as much money as they want.
This is not a conservation exercise if it was then pipes would be mended etc, its a profit generating exercise due to irish water being allowed charge households what ever they like to make a profit, no matter what conservation meaures people adopt people cannot decrease the cost of water, gas and electricity is different in that respect.
Its all to open for the money making side and all to restricted on the households ability to reduce/manage their costs.
Why does the €750 figure, for another country which you have no references for, seem more believable than the €250-300 figure which is expected for Ireland?
Irish Water have estimated that the current cost of providing water for each house costs about €500 on average. This would include leakage. The Govt have committed to covering about half of that cost, and you pay for the rest. Thats where the €250-300 figure is coming from. Of course, you may end up paying less...
As I mentioned before, we're in a Catch 22 situation. The country can't afford to fix the network. The current approach isn't sustainable. Money which is taken in on charges will go towards network repairs.
Companies like Bord Gais, ESB etc. all need to apply to various regulatory bodies before passing on gas and electricity increases/decreases, so I presume water will follow a similar path.
Aside from the operational side of this charge, there are other practical reasons for it's introduction. Ireland's tax base is quite heavily linked to income taxes and which are quite variable in nature. This makes it quite difficult for the Govt to plan ahead for the future.
This isn't how most other EU countries are setup, and when the Troika were over they would have been encouraging moves towards more a more sustainable tax base, and Water Charges would have been part of that.0 -
Why does the €750 figure, for another country which you have no references for, seem more believable than the €250-300 figure which is expected for Ireland?
Because its Ireland, the place where the cost of living rise and rise while top ups and bonuses are bandied about even though companies are struggling and the country is on its knees. where have you been for the last number of years?
Just putting this out there http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2538234/Fraud-500m-UK-water-bills.html
Also now that ireland is viewed as being more corrupt that england accoring to the CPI, im sure you can understand why i would be more inclined to anticipate home owners being screwed further.“The news that Irish Water is not subject to have its accounts audited by the C&AG will only add to the public anger about the use of significant volumes of public money by a company with virtually no accountability. It also demonstrates the unsuitability of the structure of Irish Water as established by this Government.
“Despite having been granted billions of Euro of assets and having spent €100 million to set itself up, Irish Water cannot be compelled to appear before the PAC to answer basic questions about what it is doing.
“This was bad legislation by the Government which has led to very poor levels of transparency. We have no idea about the processes used for procurement of services.
“Next Tuesday, Irish Water will appear before the Environment Committee for their annual review, but incredibly their accounts cannot be examined."
Taken with a pinch of salt and then you go and say "you may end up paying less" give me a break :rolleyes:Irish Water have estimated that the current cost of providing water for each house costs about €500 on average. This would include leakage. The Govt have committed to covering about half of that cost, and you pay for the rest. Thats where the €250-300 figure is coming from. Of course, you may end up paying less...
If finances were managed more efficiently and situations given the proper priorities it would be very achievable.As I mentioned before, we're in a Catch 22 situation. The country can't afford to fix the network. The current approach isn't sustainable. Money which is taken in on charges will go towards network repairs.Companies like Bord Gais, ESB etc. all need to apply to various regulatory bodies before passing on gas and electricity increases/decreases, so I presume water will follow a similar path.
I was of the understanding that regulatory bodies are to keep prices competative etc Who will Irish Water have to compete with? If irish water can increase the charge if demand is lowered (due to people conserving) what are the chances of a decrease? What are the chances of irish water saying "there is a decrease in demand due to people not using as much but the pipes are still leaking and we cannot afford fix the pipes, we need to increase the charges" and what is likely to happen?
What better way to increase tax take if the tax bae is heavily linked with income tax? How much money has been invested into job creation or sustaining jobs in waterford for example?Aside from the operational side of this charge, there are other practical reasons for it's introduction. Ireland's tax base is quite heavily linked to income taxes and which are quite variable in nature. This makes it quite difficult for the Govt to plan ahead for the future.
If they are stabilising the tax base through extra charges on households when will we see either a decrease in income taxes or even money being pumped into public services that the majority of tax paying people actually benefit from?This isn't how most other EU countries are setup, and when the Troika were over they would have been encouraging moves towards more a more sustainable tax base, and Water Charges would have been part of that.
Probably never.0 -
Because its Ireland, the place where the cost of living rise and rise while top ups and bonuses are bandied about even though companies are struggling and the country is on its knees. where have you been for the last number of years?
Just putting this out there http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2538234/Fraud-500m-UK-water-bills.html
Also now that ireland is viewed as being more corrupt that england accoring to the CPI, im sure you can understand why i would be more inclined to anticipate home owners being screwed further.
Taken with a pinch of salt and then you go and say "you may end up paying less" give me a break :rolleyes:
If finances were managed more efficiently and situations given the proper priorities it would be very achievable.
I was of the understanding that regulatory bodies are to keep prices competative etc Who will Irish Water have to compete with? If irish water can increase the charge if demand is lowered (due to people conserving) what are the chances of a decrease? What are the chances of irish water saying "there is a decrease in demand due to people not using as much but the pipes are still leaking and we cannot afford fix the pipes, we need to increase the charges" and what is likely to happen?
What better way to increase tax take if the tax bae is heavily linked with income tax? How much money has been invested into job creation or sustaining jobs in waterford for example?
If they are stabilising the tax base through extra charges on households when will we see either a decrease in income taxes or even money being pumped into public services that the majority of tax paying people actually benefit from?
Probably never.
I haven't honed the skill of multiquoting, so I'll just provide a few bullet point responses if I may:
- You're linking fraud by English building subcontractors to UK and Ireland public sector corruption. That's a leap.
- Like most utilities, they are started up by the state before being privatised. I presume that water will go the same way. A regulatory authority normally approves price increases/decreases as I say. If demand goes down, less water is needed, which costs the Government less as they'll be paying for approx. half of your current usage on average. This can be redirected towards network maintenance.
- Depending on your water usage, you may end up paying less than €250-300 per year. Depending on your usage you may pay more.
- Income tax decreases have been flagged for either 2014 or 2015
- The Govt has reduced spending on public sector wages alone by €3 billion. There would have been further cuts to capital expenditure etc. also
- Regarding investment in job creation or sustaining jobs - no idea, but if you ask any of your TDs they will probably be able to request this info for you.0 -
- You're linking fraud by English building subcontractors to UK and Ireland public sector corruption. That's a leap.
Just highlighting that fraud at that level is achievable in a country that is seen as not being as corrupt as ours, then the fact that procurment during the €100m spend by irish water cannot be investigated. What else cannot be investigated even though they used public money?
but we will still be screwed, if the demand drops and the government pays less the house hold still pays more because irish water can up the charges. The saving "can" be directed towards network maintenance, the likelyhood is it wont. Some fat cats will be due a top up or a bonus before the public benefit from the savings.- Like most utilities, they are started up by the state before being privatised. I presume that water will go the same way. A regulatory authority normally approves price increases/decreases as I say. If demand goes down, less water is needed, which costs the Government less as they'll be paying for approx. half of your current usage on average. This can be redirected towards network maintenance.
If demand drops irish water can up the rates so you will very likely never pay less.- Depending on your water usage, you may end up paying less than €250-300 per year. Depending on your usage you may pay more.
Would you put a wager on that happening?- Income tax decreases have been flagged for either 2014 or 2015
I dont know for certain but that 3bn in cuts is probably from cutting rates to new entrants to the public sector which is probably only realistic when all the top heavy admin staff etc retire on big pensions etc, if only they could do away with multiple pensions and all the rest the might see some benefits in the short term.- The Govt has reduced spending on public sector wages alone by €3 billion. There would have been further cuts to capital expenditure etc. also
- Regarding investment in job creation or sustaining jobs - no idea, but if you ask any of your TDs they will probably be able to request this info for you.
Here are the jobs figures for Waterford published by the IDA. 2008 - Jobs created 176, jobs lost 483. 2009 - Jobs created 112, Jobs lost 569. 2010 - Jobs created 146, jobs lost 439. 2011 - Jobs created 72, jobs lost 764. 2012 - Jobs created 75, jobs lost 186. So over 5 years Waterford saw 581 IDA sponsored jobs created and 2,441 lost. These are the figures that speak the loudest to me, not some TD spinning figures to paper over the cracks so he can save his job and look good within the party.0 -
Just highlighting that fraud at that level is achievable in a country that is seen as not being as corrupt as ours, then the fact that procurment during the €100m spend by irish water cannot be investigated. What else cannot be investigated even though they used public money?
but we will still be screwed, if the demand drops and the government pays less the house hold still pays more because irish water can up the charges. The saving "can" be directed towards network maintenance, the likelyhood is it wont. Some fat cats will be due a top up or a bonus before the public benefit from the savings.
If demand drops irish water can up the rates so you will very likely never pay less.
Would you put a wager on that happening?
I dont know for certain but that 3bn in cuts is probably from cutting rates to new entrants to the public sector which is probably only realistic when all the top heavy admin staff etc retire on big pensions etc, if only they could do away with multiple pensions and all the rest the might see some benefits in the short term.
Here are the jobs figures for Waterford published by the IDA. 2008 - Jobs created 176, jobs lost 483. 2009 - Jobs created 112, Jobs lost 569. 2010 - Jobs created 146, jobs lost 439. 2011 - Jobs created 72, jobs lost 764. 2012 - Jobs created 75, jobs lost 186. So over 5 years Waterford saw 581 IDA sponsored jobs created and 2,441 lost. These are the figures that speak the loudest to me, not some TD spinning figures to paper over the cracks so he can save his job and look good within the party.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. You are unlikely to change your feeling that you're about to get screwed. I'm not going to change my opinion that I can see the justification for contributing towards some of the cost of a product which we use.
There has been a reduction of €3bn in public sector pay by cutting the salaries of new entrants, reducing the salaries of existing staff, reducting the headcount levels by several thousand, and by putting in pension changes for new entrants. There are also other structural changes which have/will take further cost out of the system.
Yes, I would put a wager on an income tax cut in 2014 or 2015.
I have no real interest in entering a rambling debate about job creation. I think we can all agree that Waterford is in trouble in this regard. However, I'm reliably informed that much of this is outside the IDA's control I'm sad to say. The stance by many companies seems to be 'it's either Dublin, or we'll go to another country'. If the other bigger cities are living on scraps, then Waterford is in real trouble in the coming years.0 -
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. You are unlikely to change your feeling that you're about to get screwed. I'm not going to change my opinion that I can see the justification for contributing towards some of the cost of a product which we use.
There has been a reduction of €3bn in public sector pay by cutting the salaries of new entrants, reducing the salaries of existing staff, reducting the headcount levels by several thousand, and by putting in pension changes for new entrants. There are also other structural changes which have/will take further cost out of the system.
Yes, I would put a wager on an income tax cut in 2014 or 2015.
I have no real interest in entering a rambling debate about job creation. I think we can all agree that Waterford is in trouble in this regard. However, I'm reliably informed that much of this is outside the IDA's control I'm sad to say. The stance by many companies seems to be 'it's either Dublin, or we'll go to another country'. If the other bigger cities are living on scraps, then Waterford is in real trouble in the coming years.
I understand a contribution is needed, however the company being set up to charge us has just spent €100m euro in the process and does not have to open its books to any body. The same company can increase the charges year on year if they like. The government is unlikely to want to stop them or even be able to stop them doing what the like and no amount of conservation of water usage in the household will bring down the price. Like i said, its far to open for the company to make money (no accountability ALREADY) and takes away any reward for a household to conserve its usage. Will there be VAT and charges added onto the bill by the government?
They will still be paying large pensions and possibly the good ole golden handshake to senior civil servants etc so the full 3bn in savings is still a long way off in the distance i would imagine. id say maybe a billion in the short term, if even that.
I suppose a decrease in income tax around 2015 is possible with a GE due in 2016, the will need to sweeten the voters again wont they, i wonder how long a decrease will last and what reason they will use to up it again after the GE.
Are the student fees in colleges due to go up next year? Colleges where people go to get educated in areas like IT, the very area that is apparently crying out for employees?
If they are, then we now have a situation where school leavers at 18 cant afford to get educated to get into the areas that are looking for people.... makes sense when the tax base is heavily dependant on income tax.0 -
City Manager has called in Garda to investigate a city councillors expenses.
Apparently its just one councillor
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0113/497627-waterford-council-expenses/0 -
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City Manager has called in Garda to investigate a city councillors expenses.
Apparently its just one councillor
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0113/497627-waterford-council-expenses/
Anyone made a statement admitting they are the subject of the Garda enquiry yet? (welcoming the investigation, co-operating fully, and will be vidicated in the fullness of time, can't comment now.... etc etc).
You would imagine all the other councillors will be issuing 'not me's' until there is only one left anyway.
Obviously no-one here should be speculating until there is confirmation.0
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