Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD

revisionist

askwhat youcando foryourcountry wrote: »

Yes, worthy candidates for a protest vote but would we like SF and Independents running our country, no thanks. As long as Gerry Adams leads SF, can they be taken seriously?. To describe every other candidate of every other party as odious is highly offensive to decent people from their communities who genuinely want to make a difference for their community, their county and their country.

You do not have any problem,it seems , taking Labour seriously with its Official IRA wing .......

revisionist

askwhat youcando foryourcountry wrote: »

Are you serious, mismanagement of the economy? and you seriously think that the economic experts in Sinn Fein would have done an excellent job with our economy. Reminds me of Dougal McGuire in Fr. Ted, the intertwining of dreams and reality.[/QUO

Who knows whether they would have done any better but they certainly would have fared no worse as FF and then FG/WP/DL/LABOUR/OFFICIAL IRA did as they sold out our sovereignty and our youth. People with no hope on a daily basis ending their lives . This while the real perpetrators of our economic downfall exist scott free. How arrogant you are to dismiss a party which commands the 3rd highest vote in the state and growing. How arrogant you are to assume that the policies SF would follow would not work and not explain why they would not work. Glib remarks such as yours lacking in any substance irritate me.

wellboytoo

revisionist wrote: »

You are joking or have you completely lost touch with reality? The increased rates are part of a government initiative. Hence the efforts of the local chamber to reverse them by lobbying government dail representatives. Your ''independent'' rates revaluation is a bit like the initiatives pursued by Pol Pot, Stalin and company ...nice title but awful outcome....enemies of the people that is FG , anti worker,anti middle class, anti student, anti pensioner...pro big business, pro wealthy investors in their golden circle

Last week's Ard Dheis really invigorated you obviously.

7upfree

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

when did FG introduce these "chronic rate increases"?? are you referring to the independent rates revaluation that took place?

Smiley - you're flogging a dead horse. FG are responsible. Full stop.

7upfree

revisionist wrote: »

askwhat youcando foryourcountry wrote: »

Are you serious, mismanagement of the economy? and you seriously think that the economic experts in Sinn Fein would have done an excellent job with our economy. Reminds me of Dougal McGuire in Fr. Ted, the intertwining of dreams and reality.[/QUO

Who knows whether they would have done any better but they certainly would have fared no worse as FF and then FG/WP/DL/LABOUR/OFFICIAL IRA did as they sold out our sovereignty and our youth. People with no hope on a daily basis ending their lives . This while the real perpetrators of our economic downfall exist scott free. How arrogant you are to dismiss a party which commands the 3rd highest vote in the state and growing. How arrogant you are to assume that the policies SF would follow would not work and not explain why they would not work. Glib remarks such as yours lacking in any substance irritate me.

Looking increasingly like a FF/SF coalition supported by Independents next time out.

hardybuck

7upfree wrote: »

revisionist wrote: »

Looking increasingly like a FF/SF coalition supported by Independents next time out.

7upfree is there any particular reason why you can't give any explanations regarding this or other comments along a similar theme? You've dodged my requests on a couple of occasions. I just want to understand you claims.

I would say that the above isn't impossible, but highly unlikely. For this to happen FG and Labour would need to have a gigantic collapse, bigger than the FF and Green collapse of 2011.

FG won 76 seats in 2011, Labour won 37, FF 20 and SF 14. So FG have more than double the amount of seats than SF and FF put together.

By 2016 things are likely to have improved slightly, perhaps not for all, but certainly for a lot of the current FG voters. A huge proportion of the country would never consider a vote for SF under any circumstances, another portion will be against or at least very slow to ever vote for FF again.

Therefore I would see a FG coming out as largest again with a coalition including a reduced Labour contingent and some independents/Reform Alliance members.

7upfree

hardybuck wrote: »

7upfree wrote: »

7upfree is there any particular reason why you can't give any explanations regarding this or other comments along a similar theme? You've dodged my requests on a couple of occasions. I just want to understand you claims.

I would say that the above isn't impossible, but highly unlikely. For this to happen FG and Labour would need to have a gigantic collapse, bigger than the FF and Green collapse of 2011.

FG won 76 seats in 2011, Labour won 37, FF 20 and SF 14. So FG have more than double the amount of seats than SF and FF put together.

By 2016 things are likely to have improved slightly, perhaps not for all, but certainly for a lot of the current FG voters. A huge proportion of the country would never consider a vote for SF under any circumstances, another portion will be against or at least very slow to ever vote for FF again.

Therefore I would see a FG coming out as largest again with a coalition including a reduced Labour contingent and some independents/Reform Alliance members.

No dodging here.

The FG/Lab vote will collapse. It is inevitable.

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

No dodging here.

The FG/Lab vote will collapse. It is inevitable.

You appear to be talking to yourself :P

I'm getting lost in all the quotations being messed up. I have no idea who is saying what, what's a reply and what isn't.

sparkling sea

7upfree wrote: »

hardybuck wrote: »

No dodging here.

The FG/Lab vote will collapse. It is inevitable.

Its a difficult one FG/Lab v FF/SF, I don't think FF are stupid enough to link themselves to SF.

I could see the Independents doing very well, they have come across as a real and capable oppossition to the government, and I would have always argued that voting for an Independent was as good as a wasted vote. I am happy with contribution John Halligan makes, I can't believe it but it has to be said. He doesn't appear to involve himself in game playing and seems to actually want to work with the government to achieve the best outcome if it is at all possible.

I think it might possibly be FF and Independents as people seem to have very short memories and FF did do the worst job ever.

FG are coming across as to distant and far removed from the plight of most people, they are the untouchables. Even if Shatter didn't come across as the Irish version of a very arrogant Simon Cowell and even if people could trust his judgement, FG are just not selling themselves as a party that gives a toss about the wishes or the common good of the people (FF proved they didn't care but they still come across as a more considerate party then FG).

As for Labour, they have trampled on what appeared to be their mission statement, I feel sorry for them but no party can be all thing to all people, they have stuck by what is seen as a cold and possible dodgy FG instead of their supporters and the wider public.

If you are not dodgy or not a career politican, if you are trying to bring about a better ecomony and society, it must be a nightmare being a politican.

I love politics and I haven't a clue who would make the better all round government, apart from John Halligan (as long as he keeps putting in a good performance mind) I don't actually know who I would vote for.

I couldn't vote SF because of their polices, I couldn't vote for John Deasy because of a list of reasons, the latest being it wasn't 1000s of penalty points it was 100's; an awful lot of corruption is bad but alot, well its not so bad. He seems to keep digging his own political grave, now I just want to shove him in it and hope FG will run someone alot more open to the ideal of fairness for all.

Anyone else I would be open to and listen to and look at their track record if they have one, but it is a bit like pot luck, you just don't know with any degree of certainty what your going to get.

The Greens could make a resurgence, the interest in enviormental issues seems to be on the rise again but I doubt they would get enough seats or go into coalition with FF again. You never know it could be FG or FF, Independents and Greens. I think the Labour vote will collapse because the smaller parties are always the big losers at general elections

I just hope people vote instead of moaning about the way others voted. I hope a few good politicans come to the fore, for what ever party, except SF because their policies, the little that they have are either cr*p or contradict the way they act in NI.

Sully

Something dramatic is going to have to happen for Fine Gael to have a massive meltdown and for Labour not to have enough to climb back into government. Both will see a slap, but I really don't think it's going to be Fianna Fail style. The polls and various commentators were able to say that Fianna Fail would have a meltdown but that's not what's happening now and I think the worst is probably over for the government in terms of policy implementation that may see a massive impact.

Fianna Fail will recover, though not enough yet. Might be a tight race between themselves and Labour. Sinn Fein is too hard to predict, their is a massive amount of uncertainty over their party that just doesn't seem to shake off. They will get a 'last party standing' vote, a protest vote and their normal vote. So they should get a boost, but not a substantial boost.

As it stands, by polls just released;
2009 local election results
FG 32% FF 25% Lab 15% SF 7% Green 2% Ind 15% Other 4%

Today's polls:
SBP/Red C
FG 29% FF 22% SF 16% Lab 11% Green 2% Ind/Other 20%

Sunday Times/B&A
FG 30% FF 19% SF 18% Lab 9% Green 3% Ind/Other 21%.

The locals will be a small gauge but a lot of protest candidates and protest votes will be thrown into the mix, which don't usually come about in the main election.

sparkling sea

Sully wrote: »

Something dramatic is going to have to happen for Fine Gael to have a massive meltdown and for Labour not to have enough to climb back into government. Both will see a slap, but I really don't think it's going to be Fianna Fail style. The polls and various commentators were able to say that Fianna Fail would have a meltdown but that's not what's happening now and I think the worst is probably over for the government in terms of policy implementation that may see a massive impact.

Fianna Fail will recover, though not enough yet. Might be a tight race between themselves and Labour. Sinn Fein is too hard to predict, their is a massive amount of uncertainty over their party that just doesn't seem to shake off. They will get a 'last party standing' vote, a protest vote and their normal vote. So they should get a boost, but not a substantial boost.

As it stands, by polls just released;
2009 local election results
FG 32% FF 25% Lab 15% SF 7% Green 2% Ind 15% Other 4%

Today's polls:
SBP/Red C
FG 29% FF 22% SF 16% Lab 11% Green 2% Ind/Other 20%

Sunday Times/B&A
FG 30% FF 19% SF 18% Lab 9% Green 3% Ind/Other 21%.

The locals will be a small gauge but a lot of protest candidates and protest votes will be thrown into the mix, which don't usually come about in the main election.

The 5 Reform Alliance TDs could hold their seats and Fidelma Healy Eames could win a seat in a general election, I don't think any of them have renewed the FG membership to date, I could be wrong on this though. That would definitely have an affect on FG% although the RA would be natural partners for FG to coalesce with.

FG did gain support from the traditional non party FF supporters, FF by doing sweet feck all, seem to be winning these people back. It's there for FGs taking, it seems to be theirs to lose.

Chiparus

I think the next election will be about getting the vote out and this could be difficult for FF/FG although they will do it.
I dont think SInn Fein will go into coalition with anyone, they know what happens to smaller parties in coalition. They never have tried to form a coalition and are in for the long haul.

While Sinn Fein are leftist at the moment they will have to move to the central ground,( Eamonn Gilmore came from sinn fein/workers party is now advocating income tax cuts!!!!!) to make them electable in 10 years - so slowly, slowly, catchy monkey.

The greens are gone - they betrayed their voter base and the middle class who gave them their 2nd and 3rd preferences.

Fine gael will get elected again on the back of income tax cuts and prudent financial acumen. But they will have a reduced majority and may have to rely on independents which wil lbe interesting.

space2ground1

I fear for Waterford's future if FG get back in as the main party in government. The 'leading lights' of the party have shown enough influence to lead to a stagnation of the local economy here driven by a curious mismatch in recovery indicators (eg unemployment %) here as compared to the other cities in Ireland. Their influential and more numerous TDs in these locations are never going to allow Waterford off its knees as the expense of their own fragile recovering local economies. All politics is local.

I would love to be proven wrong but I believe that under a FG/LAB govt, we'll never see the runway lengthened to give life to the airport. We won't see a university in Waterford. We'll continue to see the dilution of Waterford's influence as a once gateway city. This would all increase Waterford's bottom line and as the total cake is finite, this would be at the expense of other regions who are well served by much more influencial party members.

Under FG/Lab, in my opinion we've learned to be fed wishy washy numbers such as 'IDA visits are up'.. I don't see the jobs there though. Nobody buys their children shoes from IDA visits.

As I said, prove me wrong, but far from hating Waterford, I just believe the other regions simply won't allow a city made weak from the petty tribal attitudes of powerful TDs to recover, thereby taking from their own local economies. That would equal less opportunity to sell themselves as representatives and less Dáil seats for the party HQ.

Make no bones about it.. This country is run for the good of the party HQ. The name of the party is interchangeable.

Ask yourself.. What has FG/Lab actually done for Waterford? Don't include promises of things to come and don't include things that have happened in spite of this government not because of them.

I'm finding it hard to think of much. To me they're worse than FF. FF gave this city very little, and took our sovereignty away as a nation, but while the other 4 cities have had the hypothetical economic recovery crews working hard, Waterford has had a few promises and tokens thrown in that we are supposed to celebrate.

I'm not falling for it and although I haven't decided who I will vote for, It will not be for the established parties, all of which have hurt my home city, some more than others.

/RANT

Chiparus

I have to agree with you, FG have no interest in Waterford although the SE is politically powerful with 3 cabinet ministers and one junior minister, Deasy is at the moment a loss, he was an opposition spokesman several years ago but his attacks on Kenny mean he will be unlikely to make ministerial position.

Deasy is likely to retain his seat so I cannot see Waterford getting a cabinet position for at least 10 years

nice_very

ahh Sully, looking through blue coloured glasses as usual... property/water "taxes" and O'Reillycare to name but very few, will add to the downfall of O'Duffy's men. Hogan admitted that property tax intake is going to set up Irish water, when those who paid it were told it is going to fund local services. I didnt and wont pay it, but was told by a Waterford TD that it goes to fund local services, who is lying?

do fg really think that bit by bit they will turn the nation into eu slave labour drones? I and a lot more like me wont be fooled.. I have heard from various locations that leaflets are being put into letterboxes and only "blueblood" supporters doors are being knocked on.

It is all too obvious that the fascist involvement in the Ukraine protests is part of a bigger plan which your inglorious grinny leader is part of. It would suit him down to the ground to get a pat on the head and a nice cushy number in a fascist europe megastate where everyone does what they are told. Guess what? when people begin to realise the little money they have left after the "debt" is looked after, you and your fellow blueshirts will have problems. It might take a while, until the water taxes come in.. but it is brewing.

wellboytoo

nice_very wrote: »

ahh Sully, looking through blue coloured glasses as usual... property/water "taxes" and O'Reillycare to name but very few, will add to the downfall of O'Duffy's men. Hogan admitted that property tax intake is going to set up Irish water, when those who paid it were told it is going to fund local services. I didnt and wont pay it, but was told by a Waterford TD that it goes to fund local services, who is lying?

do fg really think that bit by bit they will turn the nation into eu slave labour drones? I and a lot more like me wont be fooled.. I have heard from various locations that leaflets are being put into letterboxes and only "blueblood" supporters doors are being knocked on.

It is all too obvious that the fascist involvement in the Ukraine protests is part of a bigger plan which your inglorious grinny leader is part of. It would suit him down to the ground to get a pat on the head and a nice cushy number in a fascist europe megastate where everyone does what they are told. Guess what? when people begin to realise the little money they have left after the "debt" is looked after, you and your fellow blueshirts will have problems. It might take a while, until the water taxes come in.. but it is brewing.

That's nice

Sully

nice_very wrote: »

do fg really think that bit by bit they will turn the nation into eu slave labour drones? I and a lot more like me wont be fooled.. I have heard from various locations that leaflets are being put into letterboxes and only "blueblood" supporters doors are being knocked on

Worth clarifying this point because because it's the only one that makes any sense, plus it comes up each and every time an election is near and most people will wonder this. Most elected candidates do some form of leaflet drop in their electoral area in the run up to the election. Some do it several times throughout the period they are elected - I think they should, but a lot don't. Closer to the actual election, the canvassing starts as more people make themselves available to help candidates. During a leaflet drop, people may come out and ask to speak with the candidate. This applies to all parties and candidates.

Every time an election is up and coming, people comment that various parties are too scared and knocking selected doors only. That's not really the case and canvassers don't really know one voter from another when they approach a door.

nice_very

really? so I dont make sense when I say that property tax revenue was supposed to fund local services? or that that money was used to set up Irish water?? or that a local TD assured me it was to pay for services?? as usual you take the easy option and try to explain away blueshirt cowardice. FF and SF have both called to all doors where I live, FG have quietly, under cover of darkness, slipped their propaganda in quietly. your post reminds me of this quote: "isnt that what you tend to do in an election"

Smiley Burnett

nice_very wrote: »

really? so I dont make sense when I say that property tax revenue was supposed to fund local services? or that that money was used to set up Irish water?? or that a local TD assured me it was to pay for services?? as usual you take the easy option and try to explain away blueshirt cowardice. FF and SF have both called to all doors where I live, FG have quietly, under cover of darkness, slipped their propaganda in quietly. your post reminds me of this quote: "isnt that what you tend to do in an election"

The money collected in Waterford from the property tax represents only a fraction of the money that is allocated to Local Authorities in Waterford from Central Government...This is a fact...any party or politician that says otherwise is telling lies

revisionist

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

The money collected in Waterford from the property tax represents only a fraction of the money that is allocated to Local Authorities in Waterford from Central Government...This is a fact...any party or politician that says otherwise is telling lies

Yawn................

revisionist

wellboytoo wrote: »

Last week's Ard Dheis really invigorated you obviously.

Yeah thats the answer, avoid the substance of the argument for a glib comment. Well done, bet you were delighted at your wit...probably sat back and thought ''I am soooo clever''

KOTSC

Certain local facebook pages are after putting their foot in the fire by recent comments made by what they have posted about someone whos in the public eye that would be deemed libelous ; posting second hand allegations and sharing it around facebook is just asking for legal troubles, I don,t think the moderators of these pages realeaze what they may of let themselves in for.

wellboytoo

revisionist wrote: »

Yeah thats the answer, avoid the substance of the argument for a glib comment. Well done, bet you were delighted at your wit...probably sat back and thought ''I am soooo clever''

What argument ? It's just the usual Sinn Fein cant your spouting albeit with a better grasp of the English language than normal.
You are downright wrong that FG ordered or were anyway responsible for the rates review that is ongoing nationally and the rest is just idealist spin.
Don't flatter yourself I forgot I made the comment until you brought it up.

revisionist

wellboytoo wrote: »

What argument ? It's just the usual Sinn Fein cant your spouting albeit with a better grasp of the English language than normal.
You are downright wrong that FG ordered or were anyway responsible for the rates review that is ongoing nationally and the rest is just idealist spin.
Don't flatter yourself I forgot I made the comment until you brought it up.

Not a member of Sinn Fein and never was but I speak as I find ......AS a spokesman for FG you are the partial one in the face of my apolitical impartiality...

wellboytoo

revisionist wrote: »

Not a member of Sinn Fein and never was but I speak as I find ......AS a spokesman for FG you are the partial one in the face of my apolitical impartiality...

Bmhl me an agent for FG you don't know how funny that is, I'm not but I was just pointing out you were wrong in what you said, blame them for a million other blunders they made but not that one.

Smiley Burnett

revisionist wrote: »

Yawn................

is that the best you can come up with??? really??? i'll take it from this response that you don't know what you're talking about

askwhat youcando foryourcountry

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

is that the best you can come up with??? really??? i'll take it from this response that you don't know what you're talking about

Maybe you have taken up Revionist incorrectly, whey he says "Yawn", he is referring to SF policy.

7upfree

Amazing when people point out the treatment meted out to Waterford City by FG and the Labour puppets, along with their gormless drones, that those people are ridiculed.

As someone said earlier the party name is interchangeable. And speaking on canvassing, I suppose the aforementioned drones - after all that has been done to this City - will still go out like the sheep that they are and dance to their master's voice. It really is astonishing.

7upfree

Chiparus wrote: »

I
I dont think SInn Fein will go into coalition with anyone, they know what happens to smaller parties in coalition. They never have tried to form a coalition and are in for the long haul.

The scent of power will change all that. Just as in the past.

Hijpo

7upfree wrote: »

The scent of power will change all that. Just as in the past.

I would have to agree, the incentive to be corrupt is greater than the incentive to be honest. If the gravey train is stopped it stops for everyone including themselves.