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Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD
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In all fairness, this administration isn't the cause of Waterford's problems. Waterford has been struggling for years, well before FG/Lab got into trouble and even during the boom we weren't exactly winning. I have no problem admitting there has been some issues with this administration directly impacting Waterford, but to lay the blame squarely at this government is daft. I haven't met anybody who has came up with a proposal for Waterford, without resorting to University (an issue that's with this administration, despite more progress ever being made on the issue. It's a Labour portfolio).
We all know that the government can do sweet F all about B&L. It doesn't matter who is in government, nothing can be done. Funding is being given to the plant, but not until it's safe.
Sorry but that is rubbish....
One huge issue is infrastructure here. there is not enough proper office space for large multi nationals to come here for. There is nothing really suitable, ready to rent for 400+ employees. The IDA and the government could easily invest or make it a lot more attractive for investors to build space on the prospect of getting multinationals in.
Right now a multinational comes to the IDA looking for a large premises (eg Paypal recently) the IDA cant even offer places to visit in Waterford right now. so they would never come and set up..
Electrical infrastructure is another issue, which should have been dealt with by the Government, I had heard that a large Data Centre was looking at space here (where Nypro is now), but the ESB couldnt provide enough power for them....
Simple things here could easily help Waterford, but has not been done.
The University is a Government issue not just a Labour issue, so FG can't pass the blame.
Small things like reduced rates for start up business would help as well, especially in the retail area. better to get a low rate on a now current empty shop, then nothing at all..
Link city centre to Ferrybank (6000 and growing population) with foot bridge to open up the city to an additional population to help drive more foot traffic into the city during day and night. Bridges like this have helped move footfall around dublin considerably0 -
no your right not the cause of OUR problems ! I think the issue most reasonable logical thinking people have is this administration has done NOTHING to help with our current woes ! by the by that's the ticket they were elected on and I know not just us , now don't tell me a rising tide lifts all boats cos a lot of the deise boats have been well n truly sunk ! FG labour have however dismantled any piece of infrastructure that's not nailed/welded to the ground to grind what's left of this once proud city into the ground ! think big Phil n co ! while I know you are incapable of seeing beyond the party line , I would dearly love to hear your FG vision for the city & county ??0
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Sorry but that is rubbish....
One huge issue is infrastructure here. there is not enough proper office space for large multi nationals to come here for. There is nothing really suitable, ready to rent for 400+ employees. The IDA and the government could easily invest or make it a lot more attractive for investors to build space on the prospect of getting multinationals in.
Right now a multinational comes to the IDA looking for a large premises (eg Paypal recently) the IDA cant even offer places to visit in Waterford right now. so they would never come and set up..
Electrical infrastructure is another issue, which should have been dealt with by the Government, I had heard that a large Data Centre was looking at space here (where Nypro is now), but the ESB couldnt provide enough power for them....
Simple things here could easily help Waterford, but has not been done.
The University is a Government issue not just a Labour issue, so FG can't pass the blame.
Small things like reduced rates for start up business would help as well, especially in the retail area. better to get a low rate on a now current empty shop, then nothing at all..
Link city centre to Ferrybank (6000 and growing population) with foot bridge to open up the city to an additional population to help drive more foot traffic into the city during day and night. Bridges like this have helped move footfall around dublin considerably
You're making possible proposals the government could do, and in principal I agree with. Work is underway to develop office sites with a private contractor and the IDA are also developing here, both which will stand the test of time to see if your theory works. Don't see anywhere else getting these ahead of Waterford, these suggestions might make more sense if the state could throw money at us.
IDA visits are up but nobody is asking or finding out why these visits materialise into nothing. It's guess work and has been for years.
Personally, I have always felt these large multinationals shouldn't be where all the focus is. There all about the bottom line and where's cheap to do business, sadly the writing was on the wall for B&L as soon as it was bought out. The government and the IDA work closely with these businesses but i'd much prefer we as a country invested in other areas to create long term, safer jobs.
Rates dropped in Waterford and are mostly controlled by local government who operate within very tight budgets. There is a reason why Sinn Fein are only interested in the mayoral pact with Fianna Fail and are avoiding the budget. Looking for the perks in the job. I've said numerous times on this forum I would like to see a special rates apply to new businesses to help them setup.
But on the other point I made, you're not showing me anythin the government did that has Waterford in the state its in. Waterford has been a LONG term issue, under previous administrations stripped and ignored. I'm not saying this government has been covering itself in glory and what could be done has yet to be done. Something I've also repeatedly said on this forum.no your right not the cause of OUR problems ! I think the issue most reasonable logical thinking people have is this administration has done NOTHING to help with our current woes ! by the by that's the ticket they were elected on and I know not just us , now don't tell me a rising tide lifts all boats cos a lot of the deise boats have been well n truly sunk ! FG labour have however dismantled any piece of infrastructure that's not nailed/welded to the ground to grind what's left of this once proud city into the ground ! think big Phil n co ! while I know you are incapable of seeing beyond the party line , I would dearly love to hear your FG vision for the city & county ??
Very little was taken from Waterford, and i'm not saying nothing was or Waterford benefited massively. But in all the same attacking style, nobody mentions what was done.
Waterford did receive inward investment. One particular area was to boost our tourism offering. Flood defense system vastly improved along the quay. IDA vistis are up. A University is in the offing. The government stepped in to allow the new WIT building be completed. New schools in Waterford. An Advanced Technology Building is due to be completed by November. A brand new state of the art fire station is underway (same in Portlaw) and the courthouse is also due to be extended and improved when the fire station is moved. Most businesses saw rates drop in the rates review with local FG council policy agreeing not to raise the rates. Other funding was allocated to Waterford including the new slipway in Dunmore East. €59m went to Smart Ply recently, investment again. €47m into Water & Sewage. B&L assured investment once they stay.
One of the biggest challange for us is our University. A long term possibility of creating jobs and benefiting Waterford. We should be screaming that progress has gone stale. I'm also all in favour of the state investing more to create suitable space for companies to locate here and the South East Action plan should do more. Identify and give solutions to our problems.
Give up with the same old rhetoric of this horse****e that I don't see the problems that face Waterford, and the lack of real urgency in helping Waterford under this and every other administration. I'm as pissed as the next person that the commitments made in the election haven't came about, that more wasn't done for Waterford and the South East. I'm very open about that and i'm very open about what good was done.0 -
She seems to be backing the wrong horse in Alex White too. Such a short-sighted, knee-jerk reaction from her. Yes, she'll get her headlines for the next few weeks, but once Joan Burton wins, she'll slip even further into obscurity because she didn't support Joan.Ciara Conway is going for the Labour party deputy leadership:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/four-horse-race-for-labour-deputy-leader-as-ciara-conway-announces-she-will-stand-30321954.html0 -
That is true about FF. But as an FG member I will say that up to a few months ago it made mo difference what party was in power because the programme FF signed us up for was in force and had to be followed.
Honestly - the whole "the big boys made me do it" excuse is becoming more tiresome every time its posted. Are you still a member of FG after what they've done to this country and its people?!0 -
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mooseknunkle wrote: »
Waterford is at rock bottom now we cant sink any lower and its all down to FG/FF/LAB ,i dont know how anybody in this town can continue to support any of them.
What is the alternative to Fine Gael, Labour or Fianna Fail right now. I know that any of them might not be any good in recent years and that many of those elected have looked after themselves, but what is the alternative.
Sinn Fein? Sweet Mother of God - no way. They would have us broke even more than we are already. They are better than FF, FG and LAB put together on the spin.
Independent? Many of them are there to look after themselves. They are great at making noise but they have no solutions. If they had their way they would fire money at us the way it used to be but many (not all) of them are not balancing the books.
The Workers Party could be seen as much the same as Sinn Fein. Have any of their members ever voted for a budget while Waterford City Council was in place.
Direct Demorcacy Ireland? They seem to be making some right noises but people dont know about them enough. They have only themselves to blame for that. They had a chance over the past few weeks by putting ads in the local papers, getting on Local and national radio.0 -
sid wallace wrote: »Nail on the head. Waterford people consistently complain that they get nothing from central government and that Hogan and Howlin are pulling everything they can out of Waterford into their own constituencies and yet we consistently elect people who aren't fit for cabinet office (we've had three cabinet ministers in the history of the State). Now we've elected one who won't even take a ministry if she's offered it.
She should be run out of the county.
Should be run out of the bloody country. On the plus side to be elected next time around, she will have to pull off a few tricks that Paul Daniels would be proud of.0 -
In all fairness, this administration isn't the cause of Waterford's problems. Waterford has been struggling for years, well before FG/Lab got into trouble and even during the boom we weren't exactly winning. I have no problem admitting there has been some issues with this administration directly impacting Waterford, but to lay the blame squarely at this government is daft. I haven't met anybody who has came up with a proposal for Waterford, without resorting to University (an issue that's with this administration, despite more progress ever being made on the issue. It's a Labour portfolio).
We all know that the government can do sweet F all about B&L. It doesn't matter who is in government, nothing can be done. Funding is being given to the plant, but not until it's safe.
If this is the case, why did we see Senator Maurice Cummins FG, Senator David Cullinane SF, Deputy Paudie Coffey FG and Deputy Ciara Conway LAB, all sitting at a table last night on the 9pm news, taking with officials. Is it to be seen and giving the impression that they are trying to do something. When you say that the government can do F-all, I actually believe you. John Deasy has gone on WLR plenty of times to tell us about things the government can do nothing about, like the cables through the comeraghs, but (clowns and that is what many peole perceve them to be) Conway and COffey will come from under the floorboards every so often and give us the impression they can. We have to find out here in Waterford if it is Deasy is telling the truth most of the time or if its Coffey and Conway, and which ever is not telling us the truth should be got rid off.
There is one body that can save the jobs in Waterford however, but it might not be popular to say who in Waterford city. Its the unions. If they were to get off their high horses at times and stop making unrealistic demands at time then we might have more jobs here in Waterford now than we have. I was talking to a man this morning who worked in one of the factories on the IDA estate in Waterford for a number of years. I did not ask him which factory. Its later i was thinking i should have asked. He told me where he was closed and it was all down to the unions. He said they made demands than many of the workers did not agree with. He said that many of the work force were willing to work for what management were offering, but the unions would not allow it to happen.0 -
Waterford has a reputation for having a fairly militant attitude to industrial relations. The unions have certainly wreaked a fair bit of havoc over the years.0
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Waterford has a reputation for having a fairly militant attitude to industrial relations. The unions have certainly wreaked a fair bit of havoc over the years.
Well this reputation is unjustified if not a total myth. Industrial unrest is below average in the city and county comparted to other places. This reputation more often than not is our own peculiar self criticism and is usually based on something that happened nearly forty years ago. Yet we have airport workers in Dublin over the years consistently going oin strike or Aer Lingus. Never mind CIE workers in Cork threatening the lives and the lives of family members of so called "scabs" The militant Waterford monikor is the last scrape of the barrell and was the same accustaions that was made when we protested over the hospital and the parochial atitudes to our regional ministers towards their constituencies hospitals. The national media finally woke up and blew that theory out of the water.0 -
fuzzy dunlop wrote: »Well this reputation is unjustified if not a total myth. Industrial unrest is below average in the city and county comparted to other places. This reputation more often than not is our own peculiar self criticism and is usually based on something that happened nearly forty years ago. Yet we have airport workers in Dublin over the years consistently going oin strike or Aer Lingus. Never mind CIE workers in Cork threatening the lives and the lives of family members of so called "scabs" The militant Waterford monikor is the last scrape of the barrell and was the same accustaions that was made when we protested over the hospital and the parochial atitudes to our regional ministers towards their constituencies hospitals. The national media finally woke up and blew that theory out of the water.
I'd say the Dock Strike of the 1980's still is in people's minds. How long did that go on for again - the guts of 10 years!?
Cork would also have a reputation for being difficult in general, but there's an example of a city who benefited greatly during just that strike alone. Didn't their port take a lot of the trade that used to come into Waterford?0 -
I'd say the Dock Strike of the 1980's still is in people's minds. How long did that go on for again - the guts of 10 years!?
Cork would also have a reputation for being difficult in general, but there's an example of a city who benefited greatly during just that strike alone. Didn't their port take a lot of the trade that used to come into Waterford?
I would hardly think the dock strike enters peoples minds too much outside of Waterford. Technically it lasted 10 years but it petred mout long before that. There was still ships operating out of Waterford when the strike was officially still on and before the port moved to Belview. Nevertheless the period saw the country plagued with strikes. Ford in Cork and Ferenca in Limerick. The point is these strikes are not held over these cities like a mill stone.0 -
a few points
1---new regional assembly headquarters is to be located in Waterford
2--rates already dropped by a whopping 20% in Waterford city for 2014
3--it might sound like a good idea to impose lower commercial rates on start-up businesses, but it would be unfair on established businesses in the same line of work/service that may be struggling (think about it?! a new business sets up in competion to you and the council imposes less rates on them???!!!)0 -
How long do people expect these factories to stay, as far as I can see factories like these, from major multinationals, seem to have a 20-30 year life span , and then they close, move on to the next tax break country.0
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How long do people expect these factories to stay, as far as I can see factories like these, from major multinationals, seem to have a 20-30 year life span , and then they close, move on to the next tax break country.
Ok but this problem is not specific to Waterford. It is to be expected. So the question then is are we reliant on companies that set up 30 years ago? We need continued re-investment like the other regions and not IDA visits. These are a big nothing if they do not yield anything.0 -
fuzzy dunlop wrote: »Ok but this problem is not specific to Waterford. It is to be expected. So the question then is are we reliant on companies that set up 30 years ago? We need continued re-investment like the other regions and not IDA visits. These are a big nothing if they do not yield anything.
But "visits are up" Fuzzy doncha know? I'm sure they have great craic.0 -
Smiley Burnett wrote: »a few points
1---new regional assembly headquarters is to be located in Waterford
2--rates already dropped by a whopping 20% in Waterford city for 2014
3--it might sound like a good idea to impose lower commercial rates on start-up businesses, but it would be unfair on established businesses in the same line of work/service that may be struggling (think about it?! a new business sets up in competion to you and the council imposes less rates on them???!!!)
1. No university provided, although promised in 2008. A botched "Technology University" proposed. http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/fine-gaels-university-pledge/
2. Councils merged on the basis of "cost savings". Both administrative centres remain open, effectively doubling expenses.
3. VEC gone to Wexford.
4. WRH beaten into the ground, and will end up a glorified A&E.
5. "A WHOPPING 20%". Having increased them by over 100% in some cases.
And that's just for starters. Yeah, I suppose this administration "can't be blamed " for Waterford's woes really. And - amazingly - people still troll forums like this to defend it all.0 -
fuzzy dunlop wrote: »I would hardly think the dock strike enters peoples minds too much outside of Waterford. Technically it lasted 10 years but it petred mout long before that. There was still ships operating out of Waterford when the strike was officially still on and before the port moved to Belview. Nevertheless the period saw the country plagued with strikes. Ford in Cork and Ferenca in Limerick. The point is these strikes are not held over these cities like a mill stone.
Only in small minds Fuzzy.0 -
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New regional assembly ? Another case of the Emperors new clothes has broken out. Maybe we can turn it into a waffle factory or harness all the hot air for a wind turbine, Sure we could even sell the BS it churns out to the local farmers as manure....Smiley Burnett wrote: »a few points
1---new regional assembly headquarters is to be located in Waterford
2--rates already dropped by a whopping 20% in Waterford city for 2014
3--it might sound like a good idea to impose lower commercial rates on start-up businesses, but it would be unfair on established businesses in the same line of work/service that may be struggling (think about it?! a new business sets up in competion to you and the council imposes less rates on them???!!!)
Nice of ye to drop the rates a ''whopping'' 20 per cent particularly when you stated months ago that the rates review was an independent one and nothing to do with the government... And your theory of not supporting new business or incentivising new business because every body else would be at a disadvantage is the usual claptrap you issue... Incentivise, support, and back all business new and old, stimulate the economy. That is the way...:cool:0 -
revisionist wrote: »New regional assembly ? Another case of the Emperors new clothes has broken out. Maybe we can turn it into a waffle factory or harness all the hot air for a wind turbine, Sure we could even sell the BS it churns out to the local farmers as manure....
Nice of ye to drop the rates a ''whopping'' 20 per cent particularly when you stated months ago that the rates review was an independent one and nothing to do with the government... And your theory of not supporting new business or incentivising new business because every body else would be at a disadvantage is the usual claptrap you issue... Incentivise, support, and back all business new and old, stimulate the economy. That is the way...:cool:
Not to mention that the regional assembly HQ is already located in Waterford. It has been for years.0 -
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Ciara Conways antics of the last week or so have backfired spectacularly. Her reluctance to take a ministerial role is being seen as a lack of ambition by the few people I've spoken to about it. She has done absolutely nothing and looks set to continue on that path. She is more interested in the Labour party than her constituents.0
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How so? Go on.......
You said that by keeping both centers open, it would doubble costs. That is obviously nonsense.
Over the area that the new council covers, there have always been two local administrations, by keeping both centers open, at worst all that would happen is that cost would remain the same, but the reality is that there will be savings because there will not be a full service provided in both centers. Not to mention that there will be a relitively large number of job losses as a result of the amalgamation.
The outline of all of this is available on the new councils website:
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/LocalGovernment/Administration/FileDownLoad,34064,en.pdf
Whatever you think of the new council, or what they are doing, the idea that costs will be doubbled by comparrision to what went before is obviously nonsense.0 -
Ciara Conways antics of the last week or so have backfired spectacularly. Her reluctance to take a ministerial role is being seen as a lack of ambition by the few people I've spoken to about it. She has done absolutely nothing and looks set to continue on that path. She is more interested in the Labour party than her constituents.
Ms Conway is a political lightweight who got elected as a knee jerk reaction to the previous FF government. Who can ever forget her cringeworthy beaming smile and cosy up to Eamon Gilmore . The same guy she stabbed in the back...Her brief tenure as a TD will be brief and she will get her answer next time.0 -
I am not a Sinn Fein supporter but fcuk me this makes so much sense...
Tomorrow the Sinn Fein members will be telling Waterford City and County Council not to supply robes for the six new members. We are also asking the Council not to buy a new chain for the Mayor at a cost of 20,000 plus. To buy the new robes will cost in excess of 32,000. Their are already six spare chains in drawers in the Council. In the city which has the highest rate of unemployment in Ireland and with B%L workers fighting for their homes and jobs the blue bloods in FG want to preen themselves with your money.FF FG and Lab want the new Council workers to work for1 euro an hour on job bridge but want to spend 52,000 plus on a new council on fancy dress.0 -
How so? Go on.......
I provided a very similar to one of your comments a few weeks back.
There is a reduction in the number of councillers from 38 to 32. Along with that, the town councils in Lismore, Tramore and Dungarvan will be abolished.
While the meetings will rotate between Waterford and Dungarvan, there will be 67 job losses overall. A combination of those job losses and the reduction of elected representatives is hoped to save €4.35 million per year.
As an interesting aside, the Cork Chamber of Commerce has called for a merging of the Cork City and County Councils. They point out that the efficiencies gained in Waterford and Limerick have resulted in a reduction in commercial rates.0 -
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I am not a Sinn Fein supporter but fcuk me this makes so much sense...
Tomorrow the Sinn Fein members will be telling Waterford City and County Council not to supply robes for the six new members. We are also asking the Council not to buy a new chain for the Mayor at a cost of 20,000 plus. To buy the new robes will cost in excess of 32,000. Their are already six spare chains in drawers in the Council. In the city which has the highest rate of unemployment in Ireland and with B%L workers fighting for their homes and jobs the blue bloods in FG want to preen themselves with your money.FF FG and Lab want the new Council workers to work for1 euro an hour on job bridge but want to spend 52,000 plus on a new council on fancy dress.
when did fg, ff and labour make this decision??? the council haven't met yet!! More lies from SF!! Labour doesn't even have a city councillor, so how in God's name could they be part of some decision to buy new robes for the council??
The city council/metropolitan area is not even controlled by fg and ff combined!!!0
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