Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD

GaelMise

7upfree wrote: »

Hang on - why are two centres being kept open in the first instance? Where are the alleged "cost savings" then?

Absolute and utter stupidity of the highest order.

So do you admit that your claim of doubling costs was wrong?

Why should one centre be closed, and while we are at it, which one?

But the notion that if both centres are kept open, then there cannot possibly be any saving, is ridiculus.

As has been pointed out before, the town councils are gone, and there will be quite a few job losses. Now either come up with a creidible argument or get off your soap box.

robtri

Sully wrote: »

It's the City and County Manager who issued clarifications. Not about FG/SF.

SF already proved their pudding when they went back on the 'No Pact' pre election commitment then came running to Fianna Fail for a Mayoral pact but not wanting the budget decisions. So forgive me if I find it a bit rich for someone to slag of FG for getting a full pact with FF including budget when SF tried cosying up to FF too. At least the new majority want to actually get down to work. SF were voted in on the wave of reform and there not interested.

Can you link to the City Managers report/clarification ?

just as FG proved their steel, by cosying up to the feckers who ruined this country... (this is FG government talk about FF, everything is there fault).

so as an adamant FG supporter how do you find this... the FG are in a pact with FF??

Swissarmyknife

No surprise to see Fine Gael and Labour doing so badly,given that they are destroying the country with so many of their broken promises and lies,it's hard to keep track of them all these days.
In one of the most amazing feats in irish political history,Fine Gael and Labour have made the party of corruption and brown envelopes look good,and all this after only three years in power.
The latest poll shows them at just 20%,thats what happens when you spout lies to the electorate.

With Enda Kenny in charge,the only way is down,it's a pity he and his party are dragging us all with him.
Lets hope this new "Pact" in Waterford works someway better than the three government TDs have.
Though their are many in the city and county fearing the worst,given their past record.

"Taoiseach Enda Kenny's Coalition has hit new levels of unpopularity, rivalling even the dying days of Brian Cowen's government, an Irish Independent/Millward Brown opinion poll shows."

Independents and others at 27%
SF 26%
FF 20%
FG 20%
Lab 5%
Greens 2%
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/coalition-as-unpopular-as-last-days-of-cowen-government-30336147.html

wellboytoo

Swissarmyknife wrote: »

No surprise to see Fine Gael and Labour doing so badly,given that they are destroying the country with so many of their broken promises and lies,it's hard to keep track of them all these days.
In one of the most amazing feats in irish political history,Fine Gael and Labour have made the party of corruption and brown envelopes look good,and all this after only three years in power.
The latest poll shows them at just 20%,thats what happens when you spout lies to the electorate.

With Enda Kenny in charge,the only way is down,it's a pity he and his party are dragging us all with him.
Lets hope this new "Pact" in Waterford works someway better than the three government TDs have.
Though their are many in the city and county fearing the worst,given their past record.

"Taoiseach Enda Kenny's Coalition has hit new levels of unpopularity, rivalling even the dying days of Brian Cowen's government, an Irish Independent/Millward Brown opinion poll shows."

Independents and others at 27%
SF 26%
FF 20%
FG 20%
Lab 5%
Greens 2%
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/coalition-as-unpopular-as-last-days-of-cowen-government-30336147.html

What was the point of this post other than to tell us how much you hate the current Gov?

robtri

wellboytoo wrote: »

What was the point of this post other than to tell us how much you hate the current Gov?

and what was the point of your post?? pointless

I assume that since this is the political thread here, somebody thought to post some political facts.....

Sully

robtri wrote: »

Can you link to the City Managers report/clarification ?

just as FG proved their steel, by cosying up to the feckers who ruined this country... (this is FG government talk about FF, everything is there fault).

so as an adamant FG supporter how do you find this... the FG are in a pact with FF??

robtri wrote: »

Can you link to the City Managers report/clarification ?

Usually minutes of the meeting.

just as FG proved their steel, by cosying up to the feckers who ruined this country... (this is FG government talk about FF, everything is there fault).

so as an adamant FG supporter how do you find this... the FG are in a pact with FF??

These 'feckers' are becoming increasingly more popular with the electorate, it must be said, and have been repeatedly re elected to government for decades. A number of new candidates entered into the local political arena in Waterford and across the country. A party that remains popular with the electorate.

I notice you're continuing to slam FG but turning a blind eye to SF 'cosying up to these feckers'. One rule for one and a different for the other?

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

David Cullinane said that Sinn Fein only wanted a mayoral pact and they approached FF as early as the count. This was on DeiseAM shortly after the elections and he was pressed on it by Billy about it and Senator Maurice Cummins but he sidetracked the question. All about perks and money - funny the spin about robes when Mayors get paid more and it's a title they feel they deserve.

So Independents, FF and FG formed a pact to ensure budgets went through. Sinn Fein didn't form their own pact with Independents to get their budget ideas through. Now they get to do what they always do - sit on the sidelines and rubbish the budgets. Then go on Facebook and slam the groupings, the budgets and so on. Already started. That's exactly why there popular. They have yet to actually make any tough decisions that others have and do.

David Cullinanes response to these.

SF put forward a proposal that the Mayors/Deputy Mayors be allocated in a fair and inclusive way and by using the D'Hondt system. This would deliver two Independent Mayors, 1 FF Mayor, 1 FG Mayor, 1 SF Mayor. You are right re budgets - we made it clear to all groupings that SF will not give a blank cheque re budgets in exchange for Mayoral or Deputy Mayoral positions.


It depends on how you look at it. It is not about pressure. It's about doing the right thing. If the price of being Mayor is to support a budget which is unfair, against commitments we made and imposed further hardship on working families and the unemployed then it's a case of no thanks. We will not sell our souls or those who voted for us for any mayoral position.

No point asking me questions on these as i dont have the answers, youll need to contact someone from SF. I just thought it was fairer to have both sides opinions.

7upfree

GaelMise wrote: »

So do you admit that your claim of doubling costs was wrong?

Why should one centre be closed, and while we are at it, which one?

But the notion that if both centres are kept open, then there cannot possibly be any saving, is ridiculus.

As has been pointed out before, the town councils are gone, and there will be quite a few job losses. Now either come up with a creidible argument or get off your soap box.

Soap box? For pointing out the sheer stupidity of this whole exercise? One centre is all that is required in a county the size of Waterford. There is still duplication across the board.

hardybuck

7upfree wrote: »

Well good for them. If this is the case why weren't they already merged? "The reduction of elected representatives"? How about the increased travelling costs? Both ways?

Don't start about that "reduction in commercial rates" BS. That is a fallacy. They had already humped some rates up by 100%.

When Hogan merged the councils people went ballistic. Threatening the city status etc. I'd say that is why it wasn't done previously, but obviously now money is tight. In terms of travel costs, you'll always have those as the councillers will always be coming from various sides of the county.

On rates, that's Cork asking for whatever Waterford got.

revisionist

wellboytoo wrote: »

What was the point of this post other than to tell us how much you hate the current Gov?

And what is the point of your post except to question the point of his?

robtri

Sully wrote: »

Usually minutes of the meeting.

So that is a no then...

Sully wrote: »

These 'feckers' are becoming increasingly more popular with the electorate, it must be said, and have been repeatedly re elected to government for decades. A number of new candidates entered into the local political arena in Waterford and across the country. A party that remains popular with the electorate.

I notice you're continuing to slam FG but turning a blind eye to SF 'cosying up to these feckers'. One rule for one and a different for the other?

so you are comfortable supporting FF then?

No I disagree with SF cosying up to FF... I don't support SF as a party...

7upfree

GaelMise wrote: »

So do you admit that your claim of doubling costs was wrong?

Why should one centre be closed, and while we are at it, which one?

But the notion that if both centres are kept open, then there cannot possibly be any saving, is ridiculus.

As has been pointed out before, the town councils are gone, and there will be quite a few job losses. Now either come up with a creidible argument or get off your soap box.

Credible argument? If this were a private company one centre would close. End of story. But in the make believe world of the public sector, the rules of economics don't apply. The HQ should be in the regional capital - Waterford City.

Duplication is called that because that is what it is. What are the functions of both centres? What is the reasoning behind keeping both open?

7upfree

hardybuck wrote: »

When Hogan merged the councils people went ballistic. Threatening the city status etc. I'd say that is why it wasn't done previously, but obviously now money is tight. In terms of travel costs, you'll always have those as the councillers will always be coming from various sides of the county.

On rates, that's Cork asking for whatever Waterford got.

But you now have a situation where BOTH sets will travel alternately, doubling travel costs. It is beyond belief. Dungarvan should have been closed.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

I notice you're continuing to slam FG

Yes. Because they sold out the country and its people. From behind a tissue of lies.

wellboytoo

revisionist wrote: »

And what is the point of your post except to question the point of his?

I was actually waiting for the op to deliver the punch line but it just never came!

GaelMise

7upfree wrote: »

But you now have a situation where BOTH sets will travel alternately, doubling travel costs. It is beyond belief. Dungarvan should have been closed.

Again nope, you are very fond of claimng doubble, perhaps you are seeing doubble?
No difference in cost of both sides traveling half the time, to one side traveling every time, same amount of traveling, just a difference in who is doing the traveling.

I dont think it is unreasonable to keep both centers open so as to prevent the people of West Waterford having to go in to the city to carry out their business, or vice versa as the case may have been. Basic services have been dupicated, but not all, far from it indeed.
Comming from a situation previously where all services were duplicated for years, it is a much more reasonable position now.

hardybuck

7upfree wrote: »

But you now have a situation where BOTH sets will travel alternately, doubling travel costs. It is beyond belief. Dungarvan should have been closed.

Hold on, are you serious?

You realise that if Dungarvan closed, and Waterford remained, the people who used to travel would need to travel to Waterford 100% of the time. Same thing if Waterford closed and everyone needed to travel to Dungarvan.

If both sides share the travelling, i.e. do 50% each, that still amounts to the same amount of travel as by closing either centre and asking one side to do all the travelling.

Also, you're forgetting that the travel costs are still factored in to the €4.35m per annum savings that will be achieved from the 67 job losses and 6 fewer councillers. Can you genuinely not see that or do you need some more help?

Smiley Burnett

new mayor of waterfod metropolitan area will be elected this evening at city hall....I wonder who will be chosen?? 18 members in total

---

(8 indos)...(4 sf)...(3 fg)...(3 ff)

it will be interesting to see if the sf/indo alliance can put some sort of arrangement in place?? shouldn't be too difficult on those numbers!!!

7upfree

hardybuck wrote: »

Hold on, are you serious?

You realise that if Dungarvan closed, and Waterford remained, the people who used to travel would need to travel to Waterford 100% of the time. Same thing if Waterford closed and everyone needed to travel to Dungarvan.

If both sides share the travelling, i.e. do 50% each, that still amounts to the same amount of travel as by closing either centre and asking one side to do all the travelling.

Also, you're forgetting that the travel costs are still factored in to the €4.35m per annum savings that will be achieved from the 67 job losses and 6 fewer councillers. Can you genuinely not see that or do you need some more help?

Six FEWER councillors. Wow! What a saving! And I'm the one in need of help.......:roll eyes:

As I said, completely surreal. A "meter" - and duplication remains. Do we even need the number of Councillors? Or any at all?

I have asked already - what purpose do both centres serve?

Motor Tax - online.

Property Tax - online.

Water rates - online.

There is absolutely NO requirement for two administrative centres - under ANY circumstances.

7upfree

GaelMise wrote: »

Again nope, you are very fond of claimng doubble, perhaps you are seeing doubble?

All I'm seeing is a very costly duplication. Across the board.

7upfree

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

new mayor of waterfod metropolitan area will be elected this evening at city hall....I wonder who will be chosen?? 18 members in total

---

(8 indos)...(4 sf)...(3 fg)...(3 ff)

it will be interesting to see if the sf/indo alliance can put some sort of arrangement in place?? shouldn't be too difficult on those numbers!!!

Hopefully it won't be from the FG mob.

hardybuck

7upfree wrote: »

Six FEWER councillors. Wow! What a saving! And I'm the one in need of help.......:roll eyes:.

Six fewer councillers and 67 job losses. You either cannot or will not absorb that information.

Smiley Burnett

7upfree wrote: »

Hopefully it won't be from the FG mob.

it will only be a fg'er if sinn fein or indos support...(but then again they don't do pacts )!!!....I have a funny feeling that the indos and sinn fein are about to demonstrate today just how divided they are!!!

Sully

I'm finding it amusing that 7upfree has, yet again, been proven wrong and instead of admitting it - a whole new rant takes its place!

As for doing more things online - an awful lot of people don't use the internet and don't want to. You can see the chaos in banks when they introduced banking machines and reduced tellers.

hardybuck

Sully wrote: »

I'm finding it amusing that 7upfree has, yet again, been proven wrong and instead of admitting it - a whole new rant takes its place!

As for doing more things online - an awful lot of people don't use the internet and don't want to. You can see the chaos in banks when they introduced banking machines and reduced tellers.

Yeah and when something is handled online, it still relies on staff somewhere to process, administer, tech support etc.

Sully

Sinn Fein voted today, along with Fine Gael and Independents, for the new Mayor and Deputy Mayor. Two Fine Gael candidates. Cllr Lola O'Sullivan (Tramore) is the new Mayor and John Carey (Passage) is the Deputy Mayor.

Cllr Mary Roche was proposed as Mayor by some Independents, including two Tramore Cllrs. Which is odd seeing as Conway's election campaign was about electing local and Tramore needing strong local representation.

Brick Session

So glad I didn't vote for Conway or Hannigan now.

KOTSC

Cant post links yet as not enough posts' it was reported last night on the kilkenny people facebook page that on the waterford to kilkenny road a horse was killed followed by certain people engaging in sulky racing' I would hope in the light of this event this past weekend the new council will pass bye laws banning sulky racing from our public roads with strict penalties/fines in place for those who might ignore such a ban' it might be a horse dead on the road this time it could be a flown traffic accident the next time with people being injured or their lives in danger with this sulky racing carry on; on a final note a certain ultra left candidate who got very little votes in waterford in the recent local elections was out in force on different facebook threads last night labeling anyone against sulky racing as racist and the failed ultra left candidate prob wonders why so few people would vote for em.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

I'm finding it amusing that 7upfree has, yet again, been proven wrong and instead of admitting it - a whole new rant takes its place!

As for doing more things online - an awful lot of people don't use the internet and don't want to. You can see the chaos in banks when they introduced banking machines and reduced tellers.

What was that about the post and not the poster.:)

Nothing more amusing than to see the FGers squirm after an election hammering. And then throwing their lot in with the Shinners. You couldn't make this stuff up really!:D

7upfree

hardybuck wrote: »

Yeah and when something is handled online, it still relies on staff somewhere to process, administer, tech support etc.

Oh yeah. Of course it does.:rolleyes: