Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD

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Sully wrote: »

To be fair, there are a good few experienced councilors in that meeting and it wasn't the new kids on the block raising eyebrows. You could understand if it was. It took John & possibly John Hearne to bring a bit of order.

The committee positions are done differently better the older bodies.

It's all group dynamics though, and this is a new group as a whole. Some experienced people may feel threatened by the newcomers and feel as if they should said something (anything!) to try and assert themselves. Likewise some newcomers may feel like they need to make their mark by saying something controversial, or put their head down and say nothing at all. It'll pass soon though when they get down to business and learn to work together.

Black Suir

7upfree wrote: »

I've asked you already - what are these "serves" being provided? There IS duplication. No two ways about it. An absolute farce.

Some Duplication has to happen. What do you want, someone say that is living west of the villages of Ballyduff Upper or Tallow but inside the county boundary, to drive to Waterford City to do their business. And please dont mention on line etc. Not everyone is able to do things on line.

nkay1985

Max Powers wrote: »

agree, dont know how effective it is but it at least feels better to have someone shouting for us. is it helpful, open to debate but you gotta have a bit of respect for him for calling it as it is. Hopefully Bruton/govt will be embarrassed into action, its a long shot as he/they are deluded to think that their 'plan' is sufficient/working effectively.

Yep at least it will get some national press while the spotlight is on us and might, at a long shot, force the government into some action like you said. Very unlikely but better than nothing.

Black Suir

7upfree wrote: »

Yes, and Portlaoise is a more central location than Dublin. Should all the relevant Government Departments be moved there?

In the past FF and the PD's did try and move things out of Dublin but there was a stop put to it. Both Waterford city (i think) and Dungarvan were to benefit. The OPW were to move to Dungarvan. There was a site found between Lidl and Tom Curran's across the road from Aldi. The side is all boarded up now and is a right eye-sore if you were to look into it from Tom Curran's.

Black Suir

7upfree wrote: »

Question: is there still a separate City and county Manager? If so - why?

Now a CEO of Waterford City and County Council. The City and County had the one Manager anyway with the past number of months. Denis McCarthy stepped down as County Manager last Christmas/early in the New Year.

7upfree

Black Suir wrote: »

Some Duplication has to happen. What do you want, someone say that is living west of the villages of Ballyduff Upper or Tallow but inside the county boundary, to drive to Waterford City to do their business. And please dont mention on line etc. Not everyone is able to do things on line.

There's also the postal service. There should be NO duplication. At all.

7upfree

hardybuck wrote: »

Different question, and borderline ridiculous example. In that example you'd be asking every Government Department to close their doors to move there, along with the Dail and Seanad, to a place without the necessary infastructure to handle such a move. Almost literally impossible.

In the Waterford v Dungarvan example you're comparing two similarly organised organisations facing similar sized populations.

No. A very valid example. Which you choose to ignore. Now, for the third time: what exactly are these "services" that require two centres to remain open?

7upfree

hardybuck wrote: »

Why don't you go and ask? You haven't a clue at the moment do you?

Neither do you apparently. You're the one defending it. Not me.

robtri

hardybuck wrote: »

Different question, and borderline ridiculous example. In that example you'd be asking every Government Department to close their doors to move there, along with the Dail and Seanad, to a place without the necessary infastructure to handle such a move. Almost literally impossible.

In the Waterford v Dungarvan example you're comparing two similarly organised organisations facing similar sized populations.

But its one organisation now..... not two... thats the point...

So far no one has come up with a list or even one service which is vital and used regularly enough to require having two centres open?

Facts

Services which require 2 centres & where you couldn't expect people to travel to the city for, let me see....

Planning
Housing
Motor Tax
Fines (parking etc)
Charges (fire brigade, rates)
General enquiries - water, lighting, sewage, advice on various items

First three are huge and those alone justify the provision of two centres.

wellboytoo

Facts wrote: »

Services which require 2 centres & where you couldn't expect people to travel to the city for, let me see....

Planning
Housing
Motor Tax
Fines (parking etc)
Charges (fire brigade, rates)
General enquiries - water, lighting, sewage, advice on various items

First three are huge and those alone justify the provision of two centres.

Its kinda funny the new enlightened body is doing this when the previous council decided to stop this by closing the Tramore office!
Progress we hope and you are right there has to be a human interface on both sides of the county as it is a large area to be covered by a single office on one side or the other.

hardybuck

7upfree, I'll answer you in one post rather than several.

Yes, your example was rediculous. The staff working in Government Departments, Dail and Seanad is not too far off the population of Waterford City. To decentralise some sections of Depts. was attempted by FF, and was a disaster. So imagine making everybody in Waterford City and surrounding towns redundant, and moving their jobs to Portlaoise. That's roughtly what your example equates to.

Secondly in terms of services, I've just spend 30 seconds on the website. I can see that the council is responsible for planning, library services, economic development, transport, motor tax, culture, environment, corporate affairs (register of electors, FOI, Finance etc.) and Publications (notices re tenders, complaints, secreteriat of councils etc.)

Now, some of those services above can be done online as you mentioned, some of the time - i.e. probably 50% of people do their motor tax online now. But planning officials need to be close to where planning decisions are required, the environment staff who look after a wide variety of services including parks, water quality, waste etc. need to be spread over the county, and housing will need to be spread over the county.

For just some of what I've mentioned, you will need a presence in both ends of the county. I would not expect someone from Tallow to drive over an hour to get to Waterford City to do business that can be done locally (and locally for them would be Dungarvan which is 30 mins away).

Black Suir

7upfree wrote: »

There's also the postal service. There should be NO duplication. At all.

Of Course there has to be some duplication. The postal service is a stupid argument. I take it you live in a Urban area. Rural Ireland is dying on its feet. Posts Offices have closes. Shops have closed. Pubs have closed. Creamery's have closed. Garda Stations have closed. Health Centres have Closed. Small Rural Schools will close in the next year or two. For some people in Rural areas it is easier to drive to Dungarvan or Waterford than it is to a Post Office to buy a stamp and maybe a money order.

Black Suir

7upfree wrote: »

No. A very valid example. Which you choose to ignore. Now, for the third time: what exactly are these "services" that require two centres to remain open?

Motor Tax, Paying for Refuse Collection. There is two straight away.

blankAs

what about having some sort of service in tramore?!
the council offices are closed so none of them services plus the public tap is in the grounds of these offices.
no community welfare officer, have to go on the most expensive bus route in the country to access one of these.
to sign on for the dole, once again get the expensive bus.
affordable childcare is not available and where is the community childcare provision?
there is no superintendent in the place, he left for a cushtyer position in ballymun.
where is the community facilitys, park, square, hall?
broadband speeds are less than the national avarage, so no hope of attracting industry/business.
what is it the LPT is used for in tramore, where are the services that are required?

hardybuck

blankAs wrote: »

what about having some sort of service in tramore?!
the council offices are closed so none of them services plus the public tap is in the grounds of these offices.
no community welfare officer, have to go on the most expensive bus route in the country to access one of these.
to sign on for the dole, once again get the expensive bus.
affordable childcare is not available and where is the community childcare provision?
there is no superintendent in the place, he left for a cushtyer position in ballymun.
where is the community facilitys, park, square, hall?
broadband speeds are less than the national avarage, so no hope of attracting industry/business.
what is it the LPT is used for in tramore, where are the services that are required?

In fairness I'd say you could get over the 5 mile spin into Waterford. Tell that to the people of Lismore.

I'd say you probably suffered more being in Waterford County Council - out of sight out of mind. Probably have more inclusion with Waterford City now.

Black Suir

hardybuck wrote: »

In fairness I'd say you could get over the 5 mile spin into Waterford. Tell that to the people of Lismore.

I'd say you probably suffered more being in Waterford County Council - out of sight out of mind. Probably have more inclusion with Waterford City now.

I dont know how far it is from Tramore to Waterford but would think it is a small bit more than 5 miles. What I would say is that there is a bus service between Tramore and Waterford which is also a help. In Rural Waterford, while Deise Link exists in most areas and is a welcome service, those that do travel to Dungarvan or where ever on it, I think they also have busses going to Clonmel, Carrick and Fermoy, a person using the service has two hours once a week (maybe twice where there is a good take up of the service) to carry out your business. If you take the bus between Waterford and Tramore or vice versa, I am sure that there is a good number of busses between the two centres each day, maybe at a guess a bus every hour for 10 to 12 hours of the day.

hardybuck

Black Suir wrote: »

I dont know how far it is from Tramore to Waterford but would think it is a small bit more than 5 miles.

No, 5 miles is about right, depending on where you were coming from and going to. If you were being very pedantic, it is 7.7 miles between the prom in Tramore and the City Council Office on Parnell St.

blankAs

for that 7 mile bus journey, one way is 3.60e and 3.60e to return back home, so 7.20 just to access services. if you want to get to the hospital for an appointment its another bus journey from the quay with more cost.
why cant tramore have a deise link service, i dont live very near to a bus stop and so would love to be collected from the door for a 5 euro round trip
on a positive note, having looked at the deise link site it provides the perfect option for a day trip from tramore down to dungarvan for the day, visit the free museum, get road tax, and back to tramore all for 5e(excluding the road tax!)

Sully

blankAs wrote: »

for that 7 mile bus journey, one way is 3.60e and 3.60e to return back home, so 7.20 just to access services. if you want to get to the hospital for an appointment its another bus journey from the quay with more cost.
why cant tramore have a deise link service, i dont live very near to a bus stop and so would love to be collected from the door for a 5 euro round trip
on a positive note, having looked at the deise link site it provides the perfect option for a day trip from tramore down to dungarvan for the day, visit the free museum, get road tax, and back to tramore all for 5e(excluding the road tax!)

Isn't Deise Link for where there isn't a bus service? There putting the Tramore route out to tender so we might see prices drive down. I'd imagine a lot of people who would use the City facilities would be going into town at some stage or another anyway.

blankAs

neo liberal policy's of privatization allways works, doesnt it?
so, is it because tramore has a bus service and the possibility of the price someday decreasing but of course when you allow for inflation , which the neo liberal policys will cause, the price wont in reality go down, is it because of this that tramore doesnt have/need/deserve some facility's or services?

Sully

blankAs wrote: »

neo liberal policy's of privatization allways works, doesnt it?
so, is it because tramore has a bus service and the possibility of the price someday decreasing but of course when you allow for inflation , which the neo liberal policys will cause, the price wont in reality go down, is it because of this that tramore doesnt have/need/deserve some facility's or services?

Absolutely no clue what tangent you're on there tbh.

blankAs

the mccarthy report, the begining of the end report was all written based on a neo liberal philosophy, and basicly it is this philosophy that is bringing this country to its knees.
im asking, in plainer language, do you people think that because tramore has a bus to waterford that it shouldn't have services/facilitys?

wellboytoo

blankAs wrote: »

the mccarthy report, the begining of the end report was all written based on a neo liberal philosophy, and basicly it is this philosophy that is bringing this country to its knees.
im asking, in plainer language, do you people think that because tramore has a bus to waterford that it shouldn't have services/facilitys?

Ah your right , hold on now and we'll build an office block in Passage Dunmore Cheekpoint Tramore Stradbally Lismore Tallow Cappaquinn Ballyduff Upper and of course a bus stop outside your door with a slide from your top window to the door, a neo liberal slide I might add.

Black Suir

blankAs wrote: »

for that 7 mile bus journey, one way is 3.60e and 3.60e to return back home, so 7.20 just to access services. if you want to get to the hospital for an appointment its another bus journey from the quay with more cost.
why cant tramore have a deise link service, i dont live very near to a bus stop and so would love to be collected from the door for a 5 euro round trip
on a positive note, having looked at the deise link site it provides the perfect option for a day trip from tramore down to dungarvan for the day, visit the free museum, get road tax, and back to tramore all for 5e(excluding the road tax!)

Get onto your local councillor and lobby them. I know one or two that are on the committee that organises Déise Link and they are very willing it seems to put on busses if there is a demand, maybe two or three times a day. I am sure there is plenty in the Tramore area who would take up the offer, but maybe the bus might have to go out by the Airport from Tramore into the likes of Dunmore, Passage, Crooke, Faithlegg etc and pick up people there if there was a demand. I know from Tramore to Waterford this may sound a long journey, but the idea of Déise Link to serve the people of Rural areas, picking up passengers along the way. As far as i know people in Kilrossanty and Lemybrien have to go to Stradbally, Ballylaneen, Ballinroad etc to get to Dungarvan, people in Lismore and Cappoquin have to go to Modeligo, Touraneena, Ballinamult, Kilbrien etc to get to Dungarvan, but I am sure they dont mind. They get to where they want to for a reasonable price and if you have a free bus pass you get to travel with that.

robtri

Facts wrote: »

Services which require 2 centres & where you couldn't expect people to travel to the city for, let me see....

Planning
Housing
Motor Tax
Fines (parking etc)
Charges (fire brigade, rates)
General enquiries - water, lighting, sewage, advice on various items

First three are huge and those alone justify the provision of two centres.

Thank you for that....



Personally, I would think of no reason to have planning in two locations...
how often do people need to access planning, very very rarely....

Housing.... this is one I would agree with, two places would be helpful, it would be better in the local welfare offices, keep all the welfare stuff together

Motor tax, absolutely no reason, there are so many ways to pay... not necessary

same for fines and charges.... this is really admin stuff, one central location is enough... postal, on line, card over telephone etc..

General enquires, again no need, ring them for this sort of stuff...

having two locations and one organisation is just a waste of the tax payers money.... simple..

Black Suir

robtri wrote: »

Thank you for that....



Personally, I would think of no reason to have planning in two locations...
how often do people need to access planning, very very rarely....

Housing.... this is one I would agree with, two places would be helpful, it would be better in the local welfare offices, keep all the welfare stuff together

Motor tax, absolutely no reason, there are so many ways to pay... not necessary

same for fines and charges.... this is really admin stuff, one central location is enough... postal, on line, card over telephone etc..

General enquires, again no need, ring them for this sort of stuff...

having two locations and one organisation is just a waste of the tax payers money.... simple..

So we lay off all in either Dungarvan or Waterford City, rembering that Dungarvan of course is more central to most than Waterford, (i know the population is in Waterford) and we can all then give out about more job losses in Waterford.

fuzzy dunlop

Black Suir wrote: »

So we lay off all in either Dungarvan or Waterford City, rembering that Dungarvan of course is more central to most than Waterford, (i know the population is in Waterford) and we can all then give out about more job losses in Waterford.

Dungarvan is not more central to most. It is geographically central. This is a different thing altogeter. Since the vast majority of the population lives in or around Waterford this was the only sensible location. In Limerick, Galway and Cork the city council and county council offices were located in the cities. Waterford was the only anomaly here. The fact is there was no reason for any offices to be located in Dungarvan at all! The county is small there is probably 100000 people in Cork living further away from their council offices than Dungarvan and Lismore is to Waterford. We can thank Deasy and Conway for the idiocy of the current carve up.

robtri

Black Suir wrote: »

So we lay off all in either Dungarvan or Waterford City, rembering that Dungarvan of course is more central to most than Waterford, (i know the population is in Waterford) and we can all then give out about more job losses in Waterford.

as Fuzzy said,
central to the borders not to the people...

Dungarvan should be closed and amalgamated to the city....

Black Suir

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Dungarvan is not more central to most. It is geographically central. This is a different thing altogeter. Since the vast majority of the population lives in or around Waterford this was the only sensible location. In Limerick, Galway and Cork the city council and county council offices were located in the cities. Waterford was the only anomaly here. The fact is there was no reason for any offices to be located in Dungarvan at all! The county is small there is probably 100000 people in Cork living further away from their council offices than Dungarvan and Lismore is to Waterford. We can thank Deasy and Conway for the idiocy of the current carve up.

Rubbish. The bloody Vikings are to blame. Had they waited a few more hundred years to come here, let the county system be set up they could have worked out where the county boundaries are and then worked out that they could have sailed into Dungarvan, which is almost central to us all.