Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD

fuzzy dunlop · 15-06-2014 3:47pm

Black Suir wrote: »

Rubbish. The bloody Vikings are to blame. Had they waited a few more hundred years to come here, let the county system be set up they could have worked out where the county boundaries are and then worked out that they could have sailed into Dungarvan, which is almost central to us all.

Well if they did they would have still realized they were in the middle of nowhere and come back to Waterford. Which is essentially what happened. There is a reason the county is called Waterford. It takes its name from the city and not the other way around.

GaelMise · 15-06-2014 7:45pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

There is a reason the county is called Waterford. It takes its name from the city and not the other way around.

Yep, the City was a stronghold of Englishness and when they shired the country (Divided it into counties) they used the name of their city for the county they drew around it.

fuzzy dunlop · 15-06-2014 9:13pm

GaelMise wrote: »

Yep, the City was a stronghold of Englishness and when they shired the country (Divided it into counties) they used the name of their city for the county they drew around it.

Before you get too carried away. You might want to read some history. The integrity of the county has nothing to do with England nor has the existence of the city. Also you would realize that it was the same English who created the county council seated in Dungarvan. So if you have some gripe with England and its relationship with Waterford which I suspect you do then you have another valid reason to shut it down in Dungarvan! As well as been a relic of mismanagement is is a relic of English mismanagement;)

GaelMise · 15-06-2014 9:53pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Before you get too carried away. You might want to read some history. The integrity of the county has nothing to do with England nor has the existence of the city. Also you would realize that it was the same English who created the county council seated in Dungarvan. So if you have some gripe with England and its relationship with Waterford which I suspect you do then you have another valid reason to shut it down in Dungarvan! As well as been a relic of mismanagement is is a relic of English mismanagement;)

Well to be pedantic about it, the City Council in one form or another is much older than the county council and historically was an English institution in an English city.
And lets not ignore that for a long time it was an English city, it may have been set up by the Vikings, but in the intervening time it spent longer as an English city than either a Norse or indeed Irish one.

While the English did set up the county councils, they were largely controlled by nationalists (By which I mean the Irish Party) from their inception.

fuzzy dunlop · 15-06-2014 9:57pm

GaelMise wrote: »

Well to be pedantic about it, the City Council in one form or another is much older than the county council and historically was an English institution in an English city.
And lets not ignore that for a long time it was an English city, it may have been set up by the Vikings, but in the intervening time it spent longer as an English city than either a Norse or indeed Irish one.

While the English did set up the county councils, they were largely controlled by nationalists (By which I mean the Irish Party) from their inception.

Complete nonsense. But even if true. What of it?

GaelMise · 15-06-2014 10:02pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Complete nonsense. But even if true. What of it?

On what basis are you calling it nonsence?
Just pointing out that the reason the county is called Waterford, after the city, is that the city was an important outpost of Englishness.

fuzzy dunlop · 15-06-2014 10:33pm

GaelMise wrote: »

On what basis are you calling it nonsence?
Just pointing out that the reason the county is called Waterford, after the city, is that the city was an important outpost of Englishness.

On the basis that the period you are talking about the city was just as nationalist.Way back to the confederation times.

And if true how is it different to Dungarvan. If you think it was some Bastion of Gaelic Ireland or anything else down there you are sadly mistaken. The county has been pretty homogenous for centuries. But more importantly if it true which it isn't but lets say it is for arguements sake! How does it further Dungarvan's case?

GaelMise · 15-06-2014 10:40pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

On the basis that the period you are talking about the city was just as nationalist.Way back to the confederation times.

Ah, no. No it was not. It was most definatly an English city, the stationing of Irish troops in the city at that time was very much a short lived anomoly. For quite a bit of time before and after it was a bastion of Englishness.

And if true how is it different to Dungarvan. If you think it was some Bastion of Gaelic Ireland or anything else down there you are sadly mistaken. The county has been pretty homogenous for centuries. But more importantly if it true which it isn't but lets say it is for arguements sake! How does it further Dungarvan's case?

Why are you asuming that I am in some way trying to 'further Dungarvan's case'?
And the county has not been pretty homogenous for centuries, not in terms of language in any case.

fuzzy dunlop · 15-06-2014 10:59pm

GaelMise wrote: »

Ah, no. No it was not. It was most definatly an English city, the stationing of Irish troops in the city at that time was very much a short lived anomoly. For quite a bit of time before and after it was a bastion of Englishness.

Incorrect. Waterford was no more English than than any other urban settlement including Dungarvan. Which was fortified by the English before Waterford ever was.

GaelMise wrote: »

Why are you asuming that I am in some way trying to 'further Dungarvan's case'?
And the county has not been pretty homogenous for centuries, not in terms of language in any case.

Because that is what you were responding to when you started your sectarrian staetements. Well what case are you arguing for if not that? What relevance is your Bastion of Englishness BS to the arguement. Don't pull the Irish Language claptrap as some sort of gauge of Irishness. Especially as Waterford County council has all but killed off the ring Gaelteacht.And the Gaelgoir fanatics have done it no favours either. The idea that historically nationalism is stronger in the county is pretty unremarkable or that the county is in some way culturally more Irish. Check some hurling results. If that is anything to go by the West of the county is as "British as Finchley"

GaelMise · 15-06-2014 11:15pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Incorrect. Waterford was no more English than than any other urban settlement including Dungarvan. Which was fortified by the English before Waterford ever was.

I didn't say it was, as far as I can rember, we were not comparing Waterford City to other cities.
THat Dublin and Cork were also bastions of Englishness does not mean that Waterford was any less so.

Because that is what you were responding to when you started your sectarrian staetements.

Sectarian? How exactly is it sectarian?

Well what case are you arguing for if not that? What relevance is your Bastion of Englishness BS to the arguement. Don't pull the Irish Language claptrap as some sort of gauge of Irishness. Especially as Waterford County council has all but killed off the ring Gaelteacht.And the Gaelgoir fanatics have done it no favours either. The idea that historically nationalism is stronger in the county is pretty unremarkable or that the county is in some way culturally more Irish. Check some hurling results. If that is anything to go by the West of the county is as "British as Finchley"

How is it BS? Its an obvious historical fact. Irish Language claptrap? Its a language, in what way is it 'claptrap'? Language is often seen and indeed used as a marker of identity, and again, you were the one who came out with the idea that the county 'has been pretty homogenous for centuries' which in language terms at least, is not true.
How exactly did the county council 'all but kill the Ring Gaeltacht' anyway? Lets be realistic, the council hardily has that kind of influence.

What exactly is it that you have against the county council and west waterford anyway?

fuzzy dunlop · 15-06-2014 11:39pm

GaelMise wrote: »

I didn't say it was, as far as I can rember, we were not comparing Waterford City to other cities.
THat Dublin and Cork were also bastions of Englishness does not mean that Waterford was any less so.

Nor Dungarvan Lismore or much of the county. A bastion of Englishness in rural as much as the city was but nonetheless so.

GaelMise wrote: »

Sectarian? How exactly is it sectarian?

It has no relevance to the debate of where the council offices should be located. You are are trying to give it some. The histrorical Englishness/Irishness of any part of the county or country has no importance whatsoever. Before we destroyed this country diue to greed we almost destroyed it trying to create some Gaelic Utopia.

GaelMise wrote: »

How is it BS? Its an obvious historical fact. Irish Language claptrap? Its a language, in what way is it 'claptrap'? Language is often seen and indeed used as a marker of identity, and again, you were the one who came out with the idea that the county 'has been pretty homogenous for centuries' which in language terms at least, is not true.
How exactly did the county council 'all but kill the Ring Gaeltacht' anyway? Lets be realistic, the council hardily has that kind of influence.

An Irish speaker is no more Irish than someone who doesn't speak it. If that is the case then almost 100% of the country is lesser Irish. If you want to go down that route bo ahead. But don't expect to gave a lot of company. There has been significant amiounts of Irish speakers in the proximity and around the city including South Kilkenny and South Tipp up until almost the twentieth century. Almost 20% in some county registrars.

The council allowed developers to build developments in close proximity to the gaelteacht with no considereation to its sensitive nature. That's how it almost destroyed the language there.

GaelMise wrote: »

What exactly is it that you have against the county council and west waterford anyway?

Nothing its just a historical fact that the county council was set up to appease local parochial interests most of which were landed gentry in the nineteenth century. The larger urban centres are where services should be located. Of the four urban centres in Waterford the two largest are in the east. Most of the rest of them are in the east.It never made sense to have a council administration located in Dungarvan. Ever! This is why people like you are bring irrelevent issues like the Irish language into it.

revisionist · 16-06-2014 11:22pm

Dungarvan has always been a town with largely nationalist sympathies and as close to a rebel town as you will get. Waterford on the other hand has always been a garrison town with strong West British tendencies. There have been exceptional nationalists in the city but they have been in the minority. When my grandfather and George Lennon marched on Waterford under Pax Whelan after the British withdrawal in 1922 his abiding memory was being heckled by the shawleens who bemoaned the withdrawal of their beloved Devonshires. Indeed the entire War Of Independence had far greater intensity in the west and middle of the county as opposed to the relative serenity of the city.
Also as a resident of An Rinn I am baffled as to what the council did to us or indeed how our beautiful language is claptrap......

fuzzy dunlop · 17-06-2014 1:28am

revisionist wrote: »

Dungarvan has always been a town with largely nationalist sympathies and as close to a rebel town as you will get. Waterford on the other hand has always been a garrison town with strong West British tendencies. There have been exceptional nationalists in the city but they have been in the minority. When my grandfather and George Lennon marched on Waterford under Pax Whelan after the British withdrawal in 1922 his abiding memory was being heckled by the shawleens who bemoaned the withdrawal of their beloved Devonshires. Indeed the entire War Of Independence had far greater intensity in the west and middle of the county as opposed to the relative serenity of the city.
Also as a resident of An Rinn I am baffled as to what the council did to us or indeed how our beautiful language is claptrap......

More bar stool history! And more nonsense. Considereing Dungarvan probably had only about 3000 people at the most back then nationalist sympathies or otherwise would have been nothing to write home about. The fact Waterford was a garrison town only underlined its importance and the fact that Dungarvan was not only underlined its insignificance. The facts are most of the protestant and loyalist populations of Cork and Waterford was rural based and near the coast approximately from Annestown to the Kerry Border at that time in history. Your history is a mere hagiography of something that happened. And as far as shawleens go judging by the amount of westbrit Fine Gaelers that get elected in the west your nationalist credentials have truly evaporated.

But the point is nationalist sentiments or otherwiswe have nothing to do with anything. Nor does Pax Whelen or your grandfather. What happened almost 100 years ago has no importance whatsover on the effective administration of the city. BTW my use of the word claptrap is only in the context of using the Irish language as a political football and people tried to give themselves some credence because they have a gra for the language. It has no relevenace to where the council offices should be located.None at all and if you are from Rinn you should know how the council almost destroyed the Gaeltacht. The amount of housing occupied by non Irish speakers that has been built over the last 10 years has put huge pressure on the language there. To say otherwise is contrived nonsense.

Max Powers · 17-06-2014 10:26am

revisionist wrote: »

Dungarvan has always been a town with largely nationalist sympathies and as close to a rebel town as you will get. Waterford on the other hand has always been a garrison town with strong West British tendencies. There have been exceptional nationalists in the city but they have been in the minority. When my grandfather and George Lennon marched on Waterford under Pax Whelan after the British withdrawal in 1922 his abiding memory was being heckled by the shawleens who bemoaned the withdrawal of their beloved Devonshires. Indeed the entire War Of Independence had far greater intensity in the west and middle of the county as opposed to the relative serenity of the city.
Also as a resident of An Rinn I am baffled as to what the council did to us or indeed how our beautiful language is claptrap......

That paragraph is such clap trap its ridiculous,a little knowledge going the wrong way, you know a small bit about some stuff but not the clarity to see the reasons, rational and causes of actions. One point, rural/mountainous areas were far more active in the war of Independence (except Dublin) than all urban areas as thats what a guerilla war necessitates. This is true for Waterford, Cork, Dungarvan etc etc. There is a (bar stool) cult built up around some nationalists and an almost unworthy like talk around other nationalists who achieved much (eg. Redmond),. Nationalism also didnt start at 1916 as some myopic comments on here elude to, hence people like TF Meagher, Fr.Wadding, others, etc dont get the credit they deserve.
Conclusion: leave the prehistoric attitudes and ill-judged opinion at the your door because it sounds like something from the 50s.

askwhat youcando foryourcountry · 17-06-2014 1:39pm

revisionist wrote: »

Dungarvan has always been a town with largely nationalist sympathies and as close to a rebel town as you will get. Waterford on the other hand has always been a garrison town with strong West British tendencies. There have been exceptional nationalists in the city but they have been in the minority. When my grandfather and George Lennon marched on Waterford under Pax Whelan after the British withdrawal in 1922 his abiding memory was being heckled by the shawleens who bemoaned the withdrawal of their beloved Devonshires. Indeed the entire War Of Independence had far greater intensity in the west and middle of the county as opposed to the relative serenity of the city.
Also as a resident of An Rinn I am baffled as to what the council did to us or indeed how our beautiful language is claptrap......

I agree to a certain degree in relation to Waterford but what do we classify garrison areas as?. Are garrison areas, areas that sent many young men to Flanders and the Dardanelles in 1915 and 1916? If that is the criteria to define Garrison areas, well every part of Waterford could be considered garrison including your own area of An Rinn. I know of lads from places such as Abbeyside and other areas whose Grandfathers and Granduncles fought under the crown in WWI

hardybuck · 17-06-2014 2:25pm

askwhat youcando foryourcountry wrote: »

I agree to a certain degree in relation to Waterford but what do we classify garrison areas as?. Are garrison areas, areas that sent many young men to Flanders and the Dardanelles in 1915 and 1916? If that is the criteria to define Garrison areas, well every part of Waterford could be considered garrison including your own area of An Rinn. I know of lads from places such as Abbeyside and other areas whose Grandfathers and Granduncles fought under the crown in WWI

Fairly self explanatory I would have thought. Towns/cities which have/had a military base and a history of large military presences.

Waterford certainly would have been one of those, going back as far as the Vikings in 914. Going back to the Norman invasion, King Henry II landed a large force in 1171 to warn off the Normans, and declared Waterford, along with Dublin, a royal city.

Garrison Towns typically had more 'garrison games' played - e.g. soccer, for which Waterford is famous.

You also have to remember that Waterford was, for most of it's history, a wealthy port town where a lot of trade and commerce took place. You can see why the populations wouldn't have wanted too much of the status quo to change if they were living well.

revisionist · 18-06-2014 1:22am

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

More bar stool history! And more nonsense. Considereing Dungarvan probably had only about 3000 people at the most back then nationalist sympathies or otherwise would have been nothing to write home about. The fact Waterford was a garrison town only underlined its importance and the fact that Dungarvan was not only underlined its insignificance. The facts are most of the protestant and loyalist populations of Cork and Waterford was rural based and near the coast approximately from Annestown to the Kerry Border at that time in history. Your history is a mere hagiography of something that happened. And as far as shawleens go judging by the amount of westbrit Fine Gaelers that get elected in the west your nationalist credentials have truly evaporated.

But the point is nationalist sentiments or otherwiswe have nothing to do with anything. Nor does Pax Whelen or your grandfather. What happened almost 100 years ago has no importance whatsover on the effective administration of the city. BTW my use of the word claptrap is only in the context of using the Irish language as a political football and people tried to give themselves some credence because they have a gra for the language. It has no relevenace to where the council offices should be located.None at all and if you are from Rinn you should know how the council almost destroyed the Gaeltacht. The amount of housing occupied by non Irish speakers that has been built over the last 10 years has put huge pressure on the language there. To say otherwise is contrived nonsense.

Bar stool history? To quote the experience of someone who was there is hardly a generic observation. Furthermore the significance of each town is immaterial given the significance was the creation of the occupying forces. Also to suggest that An Rinn has been somehow destroyed by the presence of non Irish speakers is crass, ill informed and almost totally ignorant of how these new influx of people to the area have enriched and enhanced the social quality of the area. People who have adopted a serious pursuit of learning the language and culture. People who are in the main citizens of this country and entitled under the constitution to go where they wish. And my post was specifically referring to the historical aspect of nationalism in the county..no more no less..

revisionist · 18-06-2014 1:35am

Max Powers wrote: »

That paragraph is such clap trap its ridiculous,a little knowledge going the wrong way, you know a small bit about some stuff but not the clarity to see the reasons, rational and causes of actions. One point, rural/mountainous areas were far more active in the war of Independence (except Dublin) than all urban areas as thats what a guerilla war necessitates. This is true for Waterford, Cork, Dungarvan etc etc. There is a (bar stool) cult built up around some nationalists and an almost unworthy like talk around other nationalists who achieved much (eg. Redmond),. Nationalism also didnt start at 1916 as some myopic comments on here elude to, hence people like TF Meagher, Fr.Wadding, others, etc dont get the credit they deserve.
Conclusion: leave the prehistoric attitudes and ill-judged opinion at the your door because it sounds like something from the 50s.

Ah MAX your rhetoric grows ever more hysterical in the face of fact. The fact that rural or mountainous areas were more active was due to the fact that this was the refuge of the flying columns as they afforded cover to these brave units of resistance. Stating facts rather than opinion seems to unsettle you somewhat in that you do not have any idea of the depth of my knowledge yet you dismiss it in churlish fashion. I never said that nationalism was the sole preserve of the men of 1916 or the combatants in the War Of Independence . There was as I said some exceptions in the city such as Paddy Paul,Moses Roche and those that you mentioned as well as a core in Tramore. Indeed there were a great chunk of Republicans who battled in the folly of the Great War such as Ledwidge,Kettle and Willie Redmond . Misguided but convinced that their struggle would lead to Home Rule but perfidious albion saw it differently. Therefore in conclusion the men of 1919 to 1921 were the vital catalyst in this countries history. Also thank you for pointing out my perceived shortcomings , is that clear enough for you?

revisionist · 18-06-2014 1:55am

askwhat youcando foryourcountry wrote: »

I agree to a certain degree in relation to Waterford but what do we classify garrison areas as?. Are garrison areas, areas that sent many young men to Flanders and the Dardanelles in 1915 and 1916? If that is the criteria to define Garrison areas, well every part of Waterford could be considered garrison including your own area of An Rinn. I know of lads from places such as Abbeyside and other areas whose Grandfathers and Granduncles fought under the crown in WWI

To suggest that the sole reason for fighting in WW1 was loyalty to the crown is incorrect. There were numerous factors including religion, economic deprivation, adventure and political reasons for men to join up. I lost 2 granduncles in the Great War and my Grandfather was a combatant for the entire duration of the war before returning to become an instrumental part of the struggle in this county. To judge them in hindsight is unfair and one dimensional thinking. The point of Waterford city is that its history and inclination was towards the crown hence the rapturous welcome given to King Edward in 1904 when the streets were lined with people waving the union jack. The popular journals of the time in the city constantly exhorted young male residents of the city to join up for king and country. This is fact while as the war progressed the opposite was true of the local papers in Dungarvan which never missed the chance to adopt a polemic view to the recruitment. By 1916 a great swathe of Irishmen on the front were gripped by pangs of remorse and guilt at their inability to affect the attempt of their fellow country men in the rising. This is fact . The dawning realisation that the politics and policies of Redmond were hopeless acted as a spur to them to right things on their return. And while Redmond constantly urged recruitment despite knowledge that the casualties were mounting on the front his deep loyalty to the King became ever more apparent. Hence his almost total destruction as a nationalist voice.

Max Powers · 18-06-2014 9:37am

revisionist wrote: »

Ah MAX your rhetoric grows ever more hysterical in the face of fact. The fact that rural or mountainous areas were more active was due to the fact that this was the refuge of the flying columns as they afforded cover to these brave units of resistance. Stating facts rather than opinion seems to unsettle you somewhat in that you do not have any idea of the depth of my knowledge yet you dismiss it in churlish fashion. I never said that nationalism was the sole preserve of the men of 1916 or the combatants in the War Of Independence . There was as I said some exceptions in the city such as Paddy Paul,Moses Roche and those that you mentioned as well as a core in Tramore. Indeed there were a great chunk of Republicans who battled in the folly of the Great War such as Ledwidge,Kettle and Willie Redmond . Misguided but convinced that their struggle would lead to Home Rule but perfidious albion saw it differently. Therefore in conclusion the men of 1919 to 1921 were the vital catalyst in this countries history. Also thank you for pointing out my perceived shortcomings , is that clear enough for you?

What facts?...You’re repeating the fact of what i said about Guerilla war in rural/mountainous areas. Going toe-to-toe with a barracks in a built up area was no idiots plan, we can all agree with that.
Read recently in a book about George Lennon about the hostility they received just after the war of Independence in Dungarvan, a lot of it to do with the unwelcome behaviour of those that had been fighting. Also read recently in a book about General Richard Mulcahy (Waterford City) that Waterford in general saw less action than most areas, this is widely acccepted. So to think/suggest that Dungarvan was some sort of hotbed or bastion of nationalism compared to anywhere, is a stretch of anyone’s imagination.
Re: what i was saying about 1916 and people (not you specifically) thinking nationalism started there, i think we are in agreement broadl that a lot of great nationalists went before 1916. Heard Diarmuid Ferriter giving an appraisal of Redmond and his achievements and although all we have is opinion on this, DF’s opinion was that maybe if we had stuck with Redmond’s Home Rule and 1916 didnt happen(obviously 1916’s reprisals changed public opinions) home rule would have happened and basically we would have same results as after the war of independence except we wouldn’t have had that blood shed and animosity. He also opinioned that Redmond’s home rule would have been on a more cooperative level with Unionism than the crude partition that took place after the war and that home rule would have been just like the stepping stone as free statehood was. So maybe the violence route was the wrong one to take.
What i liked about DF’s appraisal (DF in general is well worth listening to in my opinion) was that he looked back on the time with fresh eyes and left the old biases and opinions at the door

Smiley Burnett · 18-06-2014 9:59am

what's a "west-brit"???

Cabaal · 18-06-2014 10:14am

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

what's a "west-brit"???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Brit

West Brit, an abbreviation of West British, is a pejorative term for an Irish person who is perceived by other Irish people as being too anglophilic in matters of culture or politics.[1]

An Anglophile is a person who admires England, its people, and its culture.[1] Its antonym is Anglophobe.[2] The word's roots come from the Latin Angli "the English", and Ancient Greek φίλος - philos, "friend."

Seems to be a certain group of people in Ireland that use the term, guess it suits their viewpoint to stick people in boxes that they have created....who knows,

askwhat youcando foryourcountry · 18-06-2014 4:23pm

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

what's a "west-brit"???

It seems to be Revionists favourite catchphrase. Anyone who has not the same green vision as him/her seems to be labelled as a west-Brit. Now he/she tells us that his/her
grandfather and grand uncles fought for the crown in WW1 but he/she doesn't seem to label them with the West-Brit term. Maybe he/she considers those supporting British soccer teams such as Man UTD or Chelsea as West-Brits. He/She seems to be a bag of contradictions in his/her labelling of people
so to answer the question, who knows.

GaelMise · 18-06-2014 10:03pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

What happened almost 100 years ago has no importance whatsover on the effective administration of the city.

The city is not the only place that needs to be effectivly administered, there is the county lets not forget. Aside from some seeming sense of misplaced self importance, which has been comming through in your posts in relation to the city, why should the council administration be located there, and there only?

BTW my use of the word claptrap is only in the context of using the Irish language as a political football and people tried to give themselves some credence because they have a gra for the language.

What are you on about? How is the language being used as a political football, to be honnest the only one trying to score a political point in relation to the language is you, with your claims that the county council 'destroyed the Gaeltacht'. (Also, muintir na Rinne would be somewhat surprised to hear that their Gaeltacht has been destroyed, by the way).

you should know how the council almost destroyed the Gaeltacht. The amount of housing occupied by non Irish speakers that has been built over the last 10 years has put huge pressure on the language there.

Any facts and figures to substiantate this point?

fuzzy dunlop · 19-06-2014 3:41am

GaelMise wrote: »

The city is not the only place that needs to be effectivly administered, there is the county lets not forget. Aside from some seeming sense of misplaced self importance, which has been comming through in your posts in relation to the city, why should the council administration be located there, and there only?

Because that is where the vast majority of people live. 80000 people in around 100sq kilometers versus 30000 in about 1600 sq. kilometre. There is no need for a council in Dungarvan and there never was. How come the same situation is not repeated in Galway and Cork? Or anywhere else for that matter? Its an anomaly that is only exists to placate parochial interests. You could transfer all services to Waterford instantly and you would have more people living closer to their council offices as Tramore and Dunmore would be imediately served..

GaelMise wrote: »

What are you on about? How is the language being used as a political football, to be honnest the only one trying to score a political point in relation to the language is you, with your claims that the county council 'destroyed the Gaeltacht'. (Also, muintir na Rinne would be somewhat surprised to hear that their Gaeltacht has been destroyed, by the way).?

Hey you introduced the language into the debate. Ergo you are using it as a political football. The language has no importance whatsoeever with regard to where council offices are located .Get it? And I said almost destroyed the Gaeltacht. Read my post properly.

GaelMise wrote: »

Any facts and figures to substiantate this point?

http://www.ahg.gov.ie/en/20-YearStrategyfortheIrishLanguage2010-2030/Publications/Comprehensive%20Linguistic%20Study%20of%20the%20Use%20of%20Irish%20in%20the%20Gaeltacht%20(summary).pdf

It specificically states that that urbanisation threatens the Ring Gaelteact. This is not a natural phenomenean. This is the cause of a dodgy county council which has been notorious for plannng irregularities.

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/arrest-made-in-planning-probe/

sparkling sea · 19-06-2014 9:24am

Cabaal wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Brit

Seems to be a certain group of people in Ireland that use the term, guess it suits their viewpoint to stick people in boxes that they have created....who knows,

The term West Brit to put it quite frankly is a load of rubbish, its what a bully would say to someone when they can't argue a point. "Sure your a West Brit" means you've made a valid reasoned point but I just don't like it, but I can't argue the point either.

An example, given that Ireland isn't competing in the world cup and hundreds of thousands of Irish people will go out and buy soccer jerseys with, Rooney, Gerrard or Lampard's, etc etc, name emblazoned on the back and they can't wait to get to England to visit grounds, go to markets and have a great night out, its only logical to suppose the team people would support would be England - wrong. People who invest their emotional energy and the hard earned money supporting the Rooney's and Man U's income, however as soon as the put on the England jersey their the enemy - pathic.

Now, those who do support England because Ireland aren't competing may be called "West Brits" by some twats. Its a compliment really, it means your not intimdated by bullies who are (1) usually "republicans" however (2) they don't support the Republic of Ireland so (3) they me be "republicans of "West Brit" where ever that is ?? :-).

7upfree · 21-06-2014 9:07am

GaelMise wrote: »

The city is not the only place that needs to be effectivly administered, there is the county lets not forget. Aside from some seeming sense of misplaced self importance, which has been comming through in your posts in relation to the city, why should the council administration be located there, and there only?

Because the City is the regional Capital. And should be afforded the respect it deserves. Unfortunately, there are those out there who undermine it at every opportunity. Duplication with two centres remaining open has nothing to do with "importance" - but everything to do with reality. Not delusion.

Fate Amenable To Change · 29-06-2014 11:04pm

So did we get the 24/7 dedicated cardiology service?

revisionist · 03-07-2014 11:13pm

askwhat youcando foryourcountry wrote: »

It seems to be Revionists favourite catchphrase. Anyone who has not the same green vision as him/her seems to be labelled as a west-Brit. Now he/she tells us that his/her
grandfather and grand uncles fought for the crown in WW1 but he/she doesn't seem to label them with the West-Brit term. Maybe he/she considers those supporting British soccer teams such as Man UTD or Chelsea as West-Brits. He/She seems to be a bag of contradictions in his/her labelling of people
so to answer the question, who knows.

I never labelled or used the term west brit!. I spoke about west british tendencies and to use someones participation in a war for reasons maybe far removed from loyalty to the crown as evidence of pro british tendencies is disingenuous on your part. I commented on the social and political leanings of early 20th century waterford city . As for Mr Burnett join the debate instead of inserting a rhetorical question and then bowing out. Respect to all those who have indulged in constructive and reasoned debate but frankly if you dont have a point to make then..............

revisionist · 03-07-2014 11:20pm

sparkling sea wrote: »

The term West Brit to put it quite frankly is a load of rubbish, its what a bully would say to someone when they can't argue a point. "Sure your a West Brit" means you've made a valid reasoned point but I just don't like it, but I can't argue the point either.

An example, given that Ireland isn't competing in the world cup and hundreds of thousands of Irish people will go out and buy soccer jerseys with, Rooney, Gerrard or Lampard's, etc etc, name emblazoned on the back and they can't wait to get to England to visit grounds, go to markets and have a great night out, its only logical to suppose the team people would support would be England - wrong. People who invest their emotional energy and the hard earned money supporting the Rooney's and Man U's income, however as soon as the put on the England jersey their the enemy - pathic.

Now, those who do support England because Ireland aren't competing may be called "West Brits" by some twats. Its a compliment really, it means your not intimdated by bullies who are (1) usually "republicans" however (2) they don't support the Republic of Ireland so (3) they me be "republicans of "West Brit" where ever that is ?? :-).

Again my reference was to early 20th century waterford. The current situation is entirely different and as an almost complete modern independent state we have the freedom now to follow whatever path we want. To suggest that my argument refers to modern day Ireland is ludicrous. Also for you to espouse freedom of speech and opinion while labelling a section of society as 'twats' for their views shows a startling hypocrisy....

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