Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

One common goal but the people protesting have different political viewpoints. Ferrybank folk were warned on WLR apparently, assume it was to prevent a traffic nightmare. But sure, lets blame Irish Water & the government in a big conspiracy as some folk are doing!

Sully. Give it a rest. Seriously. It's getting worn out at this stage. Put your City first for a change. Not Fine Gael.

7upfree

Hijpo wrote: »

I can understand peoples suspicion towards WLR's favoritism towards government agendas. Billy not allowing people counter the IW mouth piece he had on put people firmly on that scent.

So very, very true.

ROCKMAN

Sully wrote: »

One common goal but the people protesting have different political viewpoints. Ferrybank folk were warned on WLR apparently, assume it was to prevent a traffic nightmare. But sure, lets blame Irish Water & the government in a big conspiracy as some folk are doing!

One quick question..

What has people on the streets in the first place ????

Oh That's right Irish Water and The FG lead Government....

jimbo1979

Sully wrote: »

I thought the organisers agreed that there wasn't going to be any political or union speeches?

Sinn Fein are all over the place on the water charges, you can't blame them for being booed off the stage.

Sully get your head out of enda kennys ass and more importantly youth Fine Gael you are clearly brainwashed with there propaganda bullsh*t,Fine Gael has done as I dare say it more damage than fine fail.the party has sold us down the river for a few magic beans.

looksee

I don't know about avoiding traffic chaos - I arranged to meet someone at the Aldi carpark, but was not allowed to turn into the Glen, I ended up behind Cherry's brewery and a constant stream of traffic passed me, evidently with the same problem. The person I was meeting phoned to say he could not get into town from Ferrybank so we called off the meeting.

Because of road closures I then ended up having to go all the way round the by-pass and over the toll bridge to get to Tramore, and judging by the amazing numbers of vehicles going through the toll, a lot of people had to do something similar. If I had realised that the Station roundabout was closed I could have gone round by Gracedieu, but it was total confusion.

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

The reason SF look like they are all over it is because FG and Lab cannot speak out against it or they will be dealt with and FF signed off on it so they cant be seen to speak out against it either so by default SF are the only ones left to oppose it. Im sure you dont think for one second that if FF/FG/Lab could jump on the band wagon they wouldnt.

I'd say Fianna Fail have their hands tied (apart from local representatives speaking out of both sides) but Fine Gael had this in their manifesto, so it's likely Fine Gael wouldn't take an anti-water charges stance. It's been a position of theirs for a while. But you can be damn sure if this was any other party that setup such a disastrous semi-state, FG & Lab would be all over it. I find it ironic that the years in opposition, they made a balls of implementing the Property Tax & Water Charges. Especially Irish Water.

A protest march is a protest march, whether the traffic is slowed on the quay or on the bridge its pretty stupid to think you can warn people not to walk somewhere and expect them to take heed.

I've no idea but I don't buy into the conspiracy theorists that the Gardai were working on instructions from the government and Irish Water to stifle the protests. There was what, about 3k people give or take there (depending on who you ask) so by stopping people from across the bridge coming into join you're preventing what kinda figures? An extra 1k or so? Seems kinda pointless, seeing as the catchment area is smaller than the likes of the county.

I can understand peoples suspicion towards WLR's favoritism towards government agendas. Billy not allowing people counter the IW mouth piece he had on put people firmly on that scent.

First I heard of that. Always working when Billy is on so I don't get to hear the craic on his show. WLR gave ample coverage to the protest though, despite people in the run up to it suggesting they wouldn't.

ROCKMAN wrote: »

One quick question..

What has people on the streets in the first place ????

Oh That's right Irish Water and The FG lead Government....

jimbo1979 wrote: »

Sully get your head out of enda kennys ass and more importantly youth Fine Gael you are clearly brainwashed with there propaganda bullsh*t,Fine Gael has done as I dare say it more damage than fine fail.the party has sold us down the river for a few magic beans.

You both seem to have failed to grasp the meaning behind my comment.

1) I'm not complaining about the protests in the slightest. They have every right to be angry and to protest.

2) Each and every protester have one common goal: There not happy with Water Charges.

3) Each and every protester there does not support the same political party or political viewpoint (including government parties).

Hence, when you combine all those together you get a crowd that might have scuffles, heckles and booing plus people looking after their friends in Sinn Fein & Unions but the march goes on anyway to send a message loud and clear: Regardless of political viewpoints, we ain't happy with water charges.

The remark about conspiracy theories is aimed at those convinced that the Gardai, Irish Water & the government colluded (with the media) to stifle the protest. That's laughable and something I don't agree with but it's doing the rounds. The remark is not aimed at any of the protesters messages they were sending out.

looksee wrote: »

I don't know about avoiding traffic chaos - I arranged to meet someone at the Aldi carpark, but was not allowed to turn into the Glen, I ended up behind Cherry's brewery and a constant stream of traffic passed me, evidently with the same problem. The person I was meeting phoned to say he could not get into town from Ferrybank so we called off the meeting.

Because of road closures I then ended up having to go all the way round the by-pass and over the toll bridge to get to Tramore, and judging by the amazing numbers of vehicles going through the toll, a lot of people had to do something similar. If I had realised that the Station roundabout was closed I could have gone round by Gracedieu, but it was total confusion.

I can only assume it was done to manage the crowd from a safety prospective and to avoid traffic chaos. But how did we manage when we had the hospital protest and the crowds were far larger? Did the Gardai implement the same road closures?

I've no idea the thinking but I don't buy into the conspiracy going around.

Sully

In other political developments, Eddie Mulligan has decided to join Fianna Fail.

Eddie Mulligan announces he's joining Fianna Fail

A Waterford City and County Councillor has announced he is joining Fianna Fail. Eddie Mulligan was elected as an Independent candidate for the first time back in May. However after less than six months in his seat the businessman has revealed he's been accepted into Fianna Fail. Councillor Mulligan says he took the decision in the better interests of the people who elected him.He told WLRfm News that "as an independent I've been meeting a number of frustrations in trying to achieve and bring initiatives and policies forward for the city".Councillor Mulligan says he felt he needed to be a part of a bigger party to achieve the goals he wants to achieve.

http://www.wlrfm.com/news-single.php?cat=1&id=13743

Eddie will fight it out, probably just with Eamonn Quinlan, to become the next TD for Waterford representing Fianna Fail. If I was to guess, I would imagine this wont sit well with the local lads in Fianna Fail, who probably thought it was a straightforward run to get the nod for the ticket and be the sole candidate for Fianna Fail. Eddie has this in the bag!

Finnbar01

Hijpo wrote: »

The reason SF look like they are all over it is because FG and Lab cannot speak out against it or they will be dealt with and FF signed off on it so they cant be seen to speak out against it either so by default SF are the only ones left to oppose it. Im sure you dont think for one second that if FF/FG/Lab could jump on the band wagon they wouldnt.

A protest march is a protest march, whether the traffic is slowed on the quay or on the bridge its pretty stupid to think you can warn people not to walk somewhere and expect them to take heed.

I can understand peoples suspicion towards WLR's favoritism towards government agendas. Billy not allowing people counter the IW mouth piece he had on put people firmly on that scent.

Didn't Sinn Fein also sign off on it?

Hijpo

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Didn't Sinn Fein also sign off on it?

Did they?

As far as i know, and im open to correction, Finne Fail accepted it as a bailout condition ie ultimately signed off on it then FG and Lab tried to implement it. So I think the other three were more hands on with this than sinn fein leaving them with an opposing voice, if only slightly.

Sully

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Didn't Sinn Fein also sign off on it?

Sinn Fein along with Fine Gael and Labour voted against the bailout agreement, if that's what you mean? (Open to correction)

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

In other political developments, Eddie Mulligan has decided to join Fianna Fail.

Eddie Mulligan announces he's joining Fianna Fail



http://www.wlrfm.com/news-single.php?cat=1&id=13743

Eddie will fight it out, probably just with Eamonn Quinlan, to become the next TD for Waterford representing Fianna Fail. If I was to guess, I would imagine this wont sit well with the local lads in Fianna Fail, who probably thought it was a straightforward run to get the nod for the ticket and be the sole candidate for Fianna Fail. Eddie has this in the bag!

Who gives a fiddlers. FF and FG. Two cheeks of the same arse. With assholes propping them up and defending them on message boards like this.

kryogen

Bit of a kick in the teeth to the people voted for him tbh, put down the party during his campaign, got elected on an independent vote (very unlikely he would have got in as a FF candidate) and jumped ship so quick?

Finnbar01

Sully wrote: »

In other political developments, Eddie Mulligan has decided to join Fianna Fail.

Eddie Mulligan announces he's joining Fianna Fail



http://www.wlrfm.com/news-single.php?cat=1&id=13743

Eddie will fight it out, probably just with Eamonn Quinlan, to become the next TD for Waterford representing Fianna Fail. If I was to guess, I would imagine this wont sit well with the local lads in Fianna Fail, who probably thought it was a straightforward run to get the nod for the ticket and be the sole candidate for Fianna Fail. Eddie has this in the bag!

Out of interest, why do you think Eddie has it in the bag?

kryogen

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Out of interest, why do you think Eddie has it in the bag?

I don't see why he would have joined if he wasn't told he would be the candidate tbh

Sully

kryogen wrote: »

Bit of a kick in the teeth to the people voted for him tbh, put down the party during his campaign, got elected on an independent vote (very unlikely he would have got in as a FF candidate) and jumped ship so quick?

He has a point. You join a party because you (generally) can serve your constituents better than an Independent can. At least on a national level. But I have no doubt this has been coming for sometime, with some Fianna Fail candidates ****ting bricks as the competition for the top spot heats up.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Out of interest, why do you think Eddie has it in the bag?

As kryogen said (below), but I also think Eddie would be a far stronger candidate than the other two young lads. Interesting times ahead though, no doubt this will be a massive upset for Fianna Fail locally (who have so far ignored his announcement instead of welcoming him to the team) and the selection convention should be fun (as it was for the locals!).

Plus, there is widespread anger out there still for all parties and the loving is very much for Independents at the moment. So it depends on how much Eddie can win back the love.

kryogen wrote: »

I don't see why he would have joined if he wasn't told he would be the candidate tbh

jimbo1979

Eddie has really jumped from the pan into the fire,fine fail are finished with the younger voters.they need a massive shake up in both politicians and policies if there to stand any chance of making any type of progress,first thing first is get rid of mehole Martin

Gardner

Sully wrote: »

He has a point. You join a party because you (generally) can serve your constituents better than an Independent can. At least on a national level. But I have no doubt this has been coming for sometime, with some Fianna Fail candidates ****ting bricks as the competition for the top spot heats up.



As kryogen said (below), but I also think Eddie would be a far stronger candidate than the other two young lads. Interesting times ahead though, no doubt this will be a massive upset for Fianna Fail locally (who have so far ignored his announcement instead of welcoming him to the team) and the selection convention should be fun (as it was for the locals!).

Plus, there is widespread anger out there still for all parties and the loving is very much for Independents at the moment. So it depends on how much Eddie can win back the love.

don't accept this one bit, if you were to compare the 4 local TD's to date, Halligan has been heads and shoulders above any of them.

its imperative as a city we return Halligan and Cullinane in next GE.

Gardner

Gardner wrote: »

i see Eddie "Fianna Fail" Mulligan is running as an independent. "continuity Fianna Fail" of Briscoe and co are the team behind him.

absolute fraudster, would not surprise me if elected he will go back into Fianna Fail.

Another Mary Rocheite!

Bump!!!

hardybuck

["Gardner;92875418"]don't accept this one bit, if you were to compare the 4 local TD's to date, Halligan has been heads and shoulders above any of them.

its imperative as a city we return Halligan and Cullinane in next GE.[/quote]

What has Halligan achieved in his time as a TD? It's never been an easier time to be in opposition, so obviously he'll get endless opportunities to be critical in the press.

Is this what we're judging performance by? Generally curious - not trying to knock him.

Similarly with Cullinane. He's a full time politician in the Seanad - what's he getting up to up there?

Independents can successfully make noise in opposition, or get deals if propping up a coalition. The latter was a huge flaw in a number of FF governments when decisions were often made for all the wrong reasons to keep an Independent happy down the country. I wouldn't like to go back to that.

hardybuck

["Gardner;92875418"]don't accept this one bit, if you were to compare the 4 local TD's to date, Halligan has been heads and shoulders above any of them.

its imperative as a city we return Halligan and Cullinane in next GE.[/quote]

What has Halligan achieved in his time as a TD? It's never been an easier time to be in opposition, so obviously he'll get endless opportunities to be critical in the press.

Is this what we're judging performance by? Generally curious - not trying to knock him.

Similarly with Cullinane. He's a full time politician in the Seanad - what's he getting up to up there?

Independents can successfully make noise in opposition, or get deals if propping up a coalition. The latter was a huge flaw in a number of FF governments when decisions were often made for all the wrong reasons to keep an Independent happy down the country. I wouldn't like to go back to that.

Max Powers

Fair play to person who predicted Eddie Mulligan will prob join FF. I couldnt care really, I voted for him as he is a competent businessman and has done more for Waterford city in that role than all the others and knows more about real life of business in Waterford than the rest of the gasbags. Would i still vote for him? Possibly, will Waterford need a good FF candidate in the future because at some stage FF will be back in power, probably not next election but maybe one after that.

I was thinking about the water protests over the weekend, is there a silent group out there that realise that this water tax is not about water but simply about getting more money into state hands. We are still borrowing 8 billion (I think) so we simply need to raise more taxes or cut spending. Is there a large group out there that dont like water tax, know its double taxation, know its been a communications mess etc etc but realise that we will need to pay it in water tax or PAYE, PRSI whatever. I dont see/hear a viable alternative.

Hijpo

Max Powers wrote: »

Fair play to person who predicted Eddie Mulligan will prob join FF. I couldnt care really, I voted for him as he is a competent businessman and has done more for Waterford city in that role than all the others and knows more about real life of business in Waterford than the rest of the gasbags. Would i still vote for him? Possibly, will Waterford need a good FF candidate in the future because at some stage FF will be back in power, probably not next election but maybe one after that.

I was thinking about the water protests over the weekend, is there a silent group out there that realise that this water tax is not about water but simply about getting more money into state hands. We are still borrowing 8 billion (I think) so we simply need to raise more taxes or cut spending. Is there a large group out there that dont like water tax, know its double taxation, know its been a communications mess etc etc but realise that we will need to pay it in water tax or PAYE, PRSI whatever. I dont see/hear a viable alternative.

Setting up irish water, buying meters (some claims they are junk tossed out be the germans and refurbished) hiring the company acquired by a pal of the government under HIGHLY suspicious circumstances who has a history of bribery has not decreased borrowing to a significant level. Where as if they took the siemens offer and just stuck a levy on the gas/electricity bill it would have been a whole lot cleaner and would not need to pay more top end salaries to a bunch of cronies and wasters, tens of millions on consultants, bonus's (call it what you like they are f***ing bonus's) a few grand on a gym, a few more grand on laughing yoga (in fairness are they not doing enough laughing at us as it is) and just to add 40 senior managers will now get a €10,500 car allowance. To name a small few things wrong with the entire situation.

Before i get called a freeman or conspiracy theorist dont bother but how much is it costing to buy the flouride thats been added to the water that doesnt need to be in it?


This does not sound like a means to close the deficit and reduce borrowing. Anyone who thinks it is needs a good shake by the face.

Max Powers

Hijpo wrote: »

Setting up irish water, buying meters (some claims they are junk tossed out be the germans and refurbished) hiring the company acquired by a pal of the government under HIGHLY suspicious circumstances who has a history of bribery has not decreased borrowing to a significant level. Where as if they took the siemens offer and just stuck a levy on the gas/electricity bill it would have been a whole lot cleaner and would not need to pay more top end salaries to a bunch of cronies and wasters, tens of millions on consultants, bonus's (call it what you like they are f***ing bonus's) a few grand on a gym, a few more grand on laughing yoga (in fairness are they not doing enough laughing at us as it is) and just to add 40 senior managers will now get a €10,500 car allowance. To name a small few things wrong with the entire situation.

Before i get called a freeman or conspiracy theorist dont bother but how much is it costing to buy the flouride thats been added to the water that doesnt need to be in it?


This does not sound like a means to close the deficit and reduce borrowing. Anyone who thinks it is needs a good shake by the face.

no doubt,its a typical Irish mess, inefficient and loads with their snout in the trough and it would be nice if they didnt waste money on all sorts of consultants etc. point is still though, paying for water is to some extent off the govts balance sheet now, that was their primary aim in creating this company. we have to pay for this and other messes in one tax or another.

Hijpo

I don't know how many times this has to be iterated but we already pay for water services. Some suggest as much as four times already and now we have to pay again not only that but pay more than most countries in the EU.

If they were to take water services off their balance sheet then you should expect to see some decrease in the taxes taken to fund it already, no mention of this however, just pay pay pay pay pay pay pay.

Its just not acceptable on any level.

wellboytoo

Hijpo wrote: »

I don't know how many times this has to be iterated but we already pay for water services. Some suggest as much as four times already and now we have to pay again not only that but pay more than most countries in the EU.

Its just not acceptable on any level.

This is just not true, Rates were taken off in 1977 , 35 years ago and a pittance was given back to the local authorities at the time to compensate , hence no reinvestment for the last thirty years, so stop saying what is patently untrue and is just a propaganda slogan being thrown about by the anti water brigade with absolutely no truth in it.

Max Powers

Hijpo wrote: »

I don't know how many times this has to be iterated but we already pay for water services. Some suggest as much as four times already and now we have to pay again not only that but pay more than most countries in the EU.

If they were to take water services off their balance sheet then you should expect to see some decrease in the taxes taken to fund it already, no mention of this however, just pay pay pay pay pay pay pay.

Its just not acceptable on any level.

Yeah as i said we have all heard the complaints and you are 100% correct, paying twice etc but we need more taxes or spend less on public services. Their aim was to take water off their balance sheet while holding onto what they used to pay for it, they have largely achieved this. What im saying is, there is a lot of justifed complaints but the core issue here is 8 billion current account over spend, that is the only reason why water tax was introduced, whats the alternative?

7upfree

wellboytoo wrote: »

This is just not true, Rates were taken off in 1977 , 35 years ago and a pittance was given back to the local authorities at the time to compensate , hence no reinvestment for the last thirty years, so stop saying what is patently untrue and is just a propaganda slogan being thrown about by the anti water brigade with absolutely no truth in it.

And were replaced with a myriad of taxes and levies.

Hijpo

wellboytoo wrote: »

This is just not true, Rates were taken off in 1977 , 35 years ago and a pittance was given back to the local authorities at the time to compensate , hence no reinvestment for the last thirty years, so stop saying what is patently untrue and is just a propaganda slogan being thrown about by the anti water brigade with absolutely no truth in it.

And VAT and motor tax was increased.... gave it back with the left then took it with the right and there was more to follow giving water services as one of the reasons for the increases.
Rates are gone and property tax is in, so rates are pretty much back again just under a different name.

Hijpo

Max Powers wrote: »

Yeah as i said we have all heard the complaints and you are 100% correct, paying twice etc but we need more taxes or spend less on public services. Their aim was to take water off their balance sheet while holding onto what they used to pay for it, they have largely achieved this. What im saying is, there is a lot of justifed complaints but the core issue here is 8 billion current account over spend, that is the only reason why water tax was introduced, whats the alternative?

There is not one single alternative on its own to replace water charges, but their are many small ones that can amount to the same figure, as was mentioned by that TD on the late late water tax was not forced upon our government there were alternatives.

Psychedelic

Max Powers wrote: »

Fair play to person who predicted Eddie Mulligan will prob join FF. I couldnt care really, I voted for him as he is a competent businessman and has done more for Waterford city in that role than all the others and knows more about real life of business in Waterford than the rest of the gasbags. Would i still vote for him? Possibly, will Waterford need a good FF candidate in the future because at some stage FF will be back in power, probably not next election but maybe one after that.

You don't mind that he ran on an independent ticket knowing full well he would jump ship to Fianna Fail shortly after he was elected? Considering he only barely managed to get elected (last candidate elected on the 8th count or something) there's no way he would've got in if he was a FF candidate. That is very sneaky. He knew full well what he was at.

On the "I can achieve more for Waterford as part of FF" spin, firstly FF may not get into Government and if they do, he will be a backbencher with little influence. If in opposition with FF he will have even less influence. He was elected to be a local independent councillor, not to use it as a platform to run in the General Election for the party who ruined the country.