Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD

Fate Amenable To Change

hardybuck wrote: »

Like which ones?

Those two to start with

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rape-support-services-cut-to-balance-books-269236.html

"The 16 centres across the country have seen their grants collectively cut by 30% over the last six years, while experiencing record demands for their services."

Arguably there aren't enough centres to begin with also.

hardybuck

Fate Amenable To Change wrote: »

Those two to start with

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rape-support-services-cut-to-balance-books-269236.html

"The 16 centres across the country have seen their grants collectively cut by 30% over the last six years, while experiencing record demands for their services."

Arguably there aren't enough centres to begin with also.

As far as I'm aware, there has been no cut in funding for these services in 2014, but a reorganisation of support services has taken place.

Domestic, Gender and Sexual Based violence services was funded by the HSA, but will now be funded by the new Child and Family agency.

Rape Crisis Network of Ireland who ran those two centres had a two year contract which ran out at the end of 2013. The contract went out to tender in September for more long term provision of services. In the interim, the RCNI contract was extended until the end of 2014.

Fate Amenable To Change

hardybuck wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, there has been no cut in funding for these services in 2014, but a reorganisation of support services has taken place.

Domestic, Gender and Sexual Based violence services was funded by the HSA, but will now be funded by the new Child and Family agency.

Rape Crisis Network of Ireland who ran those two centres had a two year contract which ran out at the end of 2013. The contract went out to tender in September for more long term provision of services. In the interim, the RCNI contract was extended until the end of 2014.

So they've done nothing to reverse 30% cuts but allocate half a day of the Dails time to discuss one incident. I'm not trying to downplay it but its obvious where their priorities are and thus they're being hypocritical. I don't have the figures for anything other than what I'd sourced, can you provide your sources?

hardybuck

Fate Amenable To Change wrote: »

So they've done nothing to reverse 30% cuts but allocate half a day of the Dails time to discuss one incident. I'm not trying to downplay it but its obvious where their priorities are and thus they're being hypocritical. I don't have the figures for anything other than what I'd sourced, can you provide your sources?

The Examiner article states that 28% cuts took place between 2009 and 2012 - so by both this Government and last. However, I wonder how cuts made between 2009 and 2012 are resulting in 2014 difficulties? I think just about everything was cut in that period, this was obviously no different.

I just googled the topic and found the following response by the relevant Government Minister for this area which would seem to confirm that no cuts were made in 2014. https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-06-10a.1400&s=section%3Awrans+speaker%3A314#g1401.q

Regarding the huge amount of debate - was it one incident? We're hearing info on fairly widescale protection of sexual offenders. I also think that it's bigger than that one topic. It goes into the dark past/present of Sinn Fein as an organisation, particularly it's senior leadership.

Regarding hypocrisy, I think Mary Lou's behaviour on Friday was the definition of hypocracy, and provided a useful diversion from all this Cahill discussion. She complains about Burton not giving her the answer she wants, when they've been dodging question on Cahill for weeks.

Fate Amenable To Change

hardybuck wrote: »

The Examiner article states that 28% cuts took place between 2009 and 2012 - so by both this Government and last. However, I wonder how cuts made between 2009 and 2012 are resulting in 2014 difficulties? I think just about everything was cut in that period, this was obviously no different.

I just googled the topic and found the following response by the relevant Government Minister for this area which would seem to confirm that no cuts were made in 2014. https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-06-10a.1400&s=section%3Awrans+speaker%3A314#g1401.q

Regarding the huge amount of debate - I think as serious as the incident is, it's bigger than that topic. It goes into the dark past/present of Sinn Fein as an organisation, particularly it's senior leadership.

So what you're agreeing that there has been 30% cut and no reversal of those cuts despite it being obvious that funds are desperately needed as the situation is getting progressively worse.

The incident should be investigated by the Gardai and their findings made public and a legal case taking where necessary. The Dail has 120 billion things to worry about and is using this to score points against a competitor on our time, essentially using our money for their own ends.

hardybuck

Fate Amenable To Change wrote: »

So what you're agreeing that there has been 30% cut and no reversal of those cuts despite it being obvious that funds are desperately needed as the situation is getting progressively worse.

The incident should be investigated by the Gardai and their findings made public and a legal case taking where necessary. The Dail has 120 billion things to worry about and is using this to score points against a competitor on our time, essentially using our money for their own ends.

Regarding cuts - there is no question that cuts were made in the last 2-6 years. What wasn't cut in that period!? I wouldn't be in any position to say whether they are desperately needed or not - I haven't a clue to be honest with you. Do you have a background in this area?

I think the debate is why didn't Sinn Fein report offenders to the Gardai, especially when they moved them into the country.

Fate Amenable To Change

hardybuck wrote: »

Regarding cuts - there is no question that cuts were made in the last 2-6 years. What wasn't cut in that period!? I wouldn't be in any position to say whether they are desperately needed or not - I haven't a clue to be honest with you. Do you have a background in this area?

I think the debate is why didn't Sinn Fein report offenders to the Gardai, especially when they moved them into the country.

No I don;t have background in the area but when at least 2 centres have to close for at least a month then theres clearly a problem. Also the links I provide show people who are heavily involved clearly detailing the problem.

Then what is the hugging a victim about and all the rhetoric in fornt of the Oireachtas. Purely a political thing, nothing else.

hardybuck

Fate Amenable To Change wrote: »

No I don;t have background in the area but when at least 2 centres have to close for at least a month then theres clearly a problem. Also the links I provide show people who are heavily involved clearly detailing the problem.

Then what is the hugging a victim about and all the rhetoric in fornt of the Oireachtas. Purely a political thing, nothing else.

Of course there was a political element, only a fool would say otherwise. But what other party would would tolerate such a culture of violence and criminality?

The danger is that young people growing up today aren't aware of the blood on many of their hands.

Fate Amenable To Change

hardybuck wrote: »

Of course there was a political element, only a fool would say otherwise. But what other party would would tolerate such a culture of violence and criminality?

The danger is that young people growing up today aren't aware of the blood on many of their hands.

Anyone who has any interest would know whether young or old, but again its all hearsay, it should be done through the Gardai even for political aims. I just pointed out the hypocrisy of the situation, if you agreed then there why the posts?

It all seems to be just something they tried to sue to distract from the water charges and try and move up the popularity polls. It annoys me that there is no movement on badly needed services espeically in a week when we see the amount of "expenses" whatever that is meant to mean. County council politics at its worse while people suffer.

hardybuck

Fate Amenable To Change wrote: »

Anyone who has any interest would know whether young or old, but again its all hearsay, it should be done through the Gardai even for political aims. I just pointed out the hypocrisy of the situation, if you agreed then there why the posts?

It all seems to be just something they tried to sue to distract from the water charges and try and move up the popularity polls. It annoys me that there is no movement on badly needed services espeically in a week when we see the amount of "expenses" whatever that is meant to mean. County council politics at its worse while people suffer.

I agree with some of your points to an extent. I don't agree with all of it.

I still don't understand how those centres were closing when their funding has been stable for two years. Every element of the health industry seems to be completely unable to manage their finances. For as long as I can remember they always blame everyone but themselves for that.

Regarding Cahill, I think she was used a little surely, but she must have wanted to publicly shame Adams as well.

The publicity has encouraged more to come forward. Currently some won't go to the Gardai as they will be admitting to IRA membership by doing so. Also, it would be difficult for people down here to appreciate the fear and intimidation tactics they employ further north.

Fate Amenable To Change

hardybuck wrote: »

I agree with some of your points to an extent. I don't agree with all of it.

I still don't understand how those centres were closing when their funding has been stable for two years. Every element of the health industry seems to be completely unable to manage their finances. For as long as I can remember they always blame everyone but themselves for that.

Regarding Cahill, I think she was used a little surely, but she must have wanted to publicly shame Adams as well.

The publicity has encouraged more to come forward. Currently some won't go to the Gardai as they will be admitting to IRA membership by doing so. Also, it would be difficult for people down here to appreciate the fear and intimidation tactics they employ further north.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they shouldn't have made it a public thing but it just stinks of local parish politics. The money that was spent to have a big debate which was basically petty squabbling is disgusting, of course thats normally the run of things. Rather than trying to bring in legislation, or put in investment in to centres they'd rather try and score some points.

hardybuck

Fate Amenable To Change wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they shouldn't have made it a public thing but it just stinks of local parish politics. The money that was spent to have a big debate which was basically petty squabbling is disgusting, of course thats normally the run of things. Rather than trying to bring in legislation, or put in investment in to centres they'd rather try and score some points.

It's actually the exact opposite of parish pump. It's a 32 county cover up.

Max Powers

I see suggestion from Cllr Jason Murphy that ORR be renamed the Cummann Nd Ban road as a tribute to all the women through Irish history who largely go uncelebrated, have few plaques or statues that i can recall. While I agree that is a silly pathetic situation, Im not sure renaming the ORR is a fitting tribute. If it was a new street in the city possibly, a new statue/monument yeah but ORR?.
I have spoken to Cllr Murphy on a few occasions and hes decent in fairness but I just think the ORR might be better left alone and there has got to be a better memorial.

wellboytoo

I agree it's not a great tribute and I'd hate to have a head cold and try and pronounce it in court! On another point the ban seems to have stopped all political discussion seeing as this is the first post in Two months!

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

I see suggestion from Cllr Jason Murphy that ORR be renamed the Cummann Nd Ban road as a tribute to all the women through Irish history who largely go uncelebrated, have few plaques or statues that i can recall. While I agree that is a silly pathetic situation, Im not sure renaming the ORR is a fitting tribute. If it was a new street in the city possibly, a new statue/monument yeah but ORR?.
I have spoken to Cllr Murphy on a few occasions and hes decent in fairness but I just think the ORR might be better left alone and there has got to be a better memorial.

Cumann na mBan were a paramilitary organisation, and in fact I think they are still treated as a domestic terrorist group by the UK Government. Members were being prosecuted well into the 90s and they opposed the policy of Sinn Fein absentionism in the 1980s before aligning themselves to more 'hardcore' IRA groups.

As a result, I think it would be outrageous to name the ORR after them as a tribute to all women during Irish history, Many women would strongly disagree with their views, their approach and wouldn't want to be represented by a criminal organisation.

If you wanted to do something to celebrate females who played an important role in Irish history, I'd prefer to see the likes of Mary Robinson, Constance Markievicz etc.

revisionist

hardybuck wrote: »

Cumann na mBan were a paramilitary organisation, and in fact I think they are still treated as a domestic terrorist group by the UK Government. Members were being prosecuted well into the 90s and they opposed the policy of Sinn Fein absentionism in the 1980s before aligning themselves to more 'hardcore' IRA groups.

As a result, I think it would be outrageous to name the ORR after them as a tribute to all women during Irish history, Many women would strongly disagree with their views, their approach and wouldn't want to be represented by a criminal organisation.

If you wanted to do something to celebrate females who played an important role in Irish history, I'd prefer to see the likes of Mary Robinson, Constance Markievicz etc.

Another example of blanketing the heroics of Irish women in the fight for independence with more current paramilitary groups. And the fact that the british class the current organisation as terrorist has no bearing on the exploits of those brave women who risked life and limb to rid ourselves of a perfidious and odious occupier.

hardybuck

revisionist wrote: »

Another example of blanketing the heroics of Irish women in the fight for independence with more current paramilitary groups. And the fact that the british class the current organisation as terrorist has no bearing on the exploits of those brave women who risked life and limb to rid ourselves of a perfidious and odious occupier.

Pick individuals who did heroic things rather than illegal terrorist organisations.

The group then is the same group that was involved in terrorist activities decades after we won independence. It would be the same as calling it the IRA ring road.

Countess Markievicz was their President from 1916-1926, and at least using her name would in some way represent those who were involved in the struggle for independence.

revisionist

Laughable...

hardybuck

revisionist wrote: »

Laughable...

Very few laughable links to The Troubles.

revisionist

For sure , just ask poor Maire Drumm another tragic victim.....

hardybuck

revisionist wrote: »

For sure , just ask poor Maire Drumm another tragic victim.....

By becoming Vice President of Sinn Fein in the mid 70s she certainly put herself in harms way alright.

revisionist

So you advocate that people lay down their principles and beliefs in favour of a quiet life? Do you think that people like Maire Drumm should have accepted unequivocally the six county arrangement without argument? This despite the fact that they did not create the anomaly ..

hardybuck

revisionist wrote: »

So you advocate that people lay down their principles and beliefs in favour of a quiet life? Do you think that people like Maire Drumm should have accepted unequivocally the six county arrangement without argument? This despite the fact that they did not create the anomaly ..

Big difference between arguments and maiming people.

I have some sympathy for what people up there suffered, but some of the violence they were responsible for was unacceptable.

I think an awful lot of women would be disgusted to be represented by that sort of group, as would so many men if the road was being named after the IRA to celebrate the role of men.

revisionist

I know ...we will call it after Nelson Mandela . He followed violent means but then he is not from the north so it is ok that he did

MRnotlob606

I have no problem calling it the Cumann na mBan Road. Cumann na Mban was created in 1914 and was an auxiliary force to the IRB, We should be proud of the women who fought for the independence of this country.

hardybuck

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I have no problem calling it the Cumann na mBan Road. Cumann na Mban was created in 1914 and was an auxiliary force to the IRB, We should be proud of the women who fought for the independence of this country.

But what about the rest? That was only a brief period of their history? Ignore it?

jmcc

hardybuck wrote: »

Cumann na mBan were a paramilitary organisation, and in fact I think they are still treated as a domestic terrorist group by the UK Government.

It may have escaped your notice but this is Ireland. More specifically, this is Waterford.

Regards...jmcc

hardybuck

jmcc wrote: »

It may have escaped your notice but this is Ireland. More specifically, this is Waterford.

Regards...jmcc

Oh I thought some people here were of the view that we were all one country.

jmcc

hardybuck wrote: »

Oh I thought some people here were of the view that we were all one country.

This is Ireland and not the UK.

Regards...jmcc

hardybuck

jmcc wrote: »

This is Ireland and not the UK.

Regards...jmcc

The UK includes Northern Ireland though right? Which is at the centre of this issue.