Wallace V Shatter

Vizzy

Xenophile wrote: »

You maybe wish to know that it was the Fianna Fail vote that elected Mick Wallace, if nothing else he brings a bit of colour and "curiosity" to the Dail.

Would you feel the same way about your 2 local buffoons - McGrath and Lowry ?

Xenophile

Vizzy wrote: »

Would you feel the same way about your 2 local buffoons - McGrath and Lowry ?

These two TD's are in different constituencies and at present they are not the issue.

Miss Lockhart

I think Wallace is a buffoon. He has proven himself to be totally untrustworthy and this doesn't really come as a surprise if true.

But there can be no doubt that the greater breach of ethics, trust and honesty lies with Shatter in this instance. I think it's pretty obvious he has abused his position and has to go. You'd think his purported brilliance and legal expertise would have stopped him making such a stupid mistake as publicly revealing his abuse of power, given Wallace is such an easy opponent to legitimately discredit. But no, apparently it all goes out the window for a little egotistical power trip. He's an embarrassment to the government.

joe swanson

While i dislike shatter, there ae a large number of people who seem willing to gloss over Wallace past antics. The man shouldn't even be in the dail and no measures taken against him. Continuously shown to be dishonest. I think a resignation would be appropriate. I won't hold my breath.

Paddy De Plasterer

I think that both Ming and Wallace have no credibility. They spoke about garda corruption while they themselves were let off the hook. It was right the public should know what type of standards they apply.

Paddy De Plasterer

Michael McDowell released information from garda to Sam Smith of the Sindo which published the story about Frank Connolly going to South America on forged passport.

Willie O Dea used information supplied by garda (false) about an opponent in Limerick, and brothel.

General General

Statement coming this morning, after Kenny's "100 per cent support" remark.

Part of me is hoping that Shatter digs his heels in & this gets some European/worldwide attention before the finish.

Xenophile

Shatter's explanations are at unconvincing at the least, they are now a resigning matter. I am sure most of us do not want this country to become a Police State.

sperm_tank

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

I think that both Ming and Wallace have no credibility. They spoke about garda corruption while they themselves were let off the hook. It was right the public should know what type of standards they apply.

does it not strike you as strange that the two TD,s who were most vocal about garda corruption ( visa vie the penalty points scandal ) ended up being exposed by AGS for minor incidents ?

Paddy De Plasterer

they were caught by their own complaining, especially Ming. he nearly got as many points as Dolan in Eurovision, but all were scrubbed.

dirtyden

sperm_tank wrote: »

does it not strike you as strange that the two TD,s who were most vocal about garda corruption ( visa vie the penalty points scandal ) ended up being exposed by AGS for minor incidents ?

Ming asked the Gardai to use discretion on his acccount but then railed against that very discretion calling it corruption. What did he or you expect, for the whole force to bite their lips in spite of his dupllicity?

Paddy De Plasterer

dirtyden wrote: »

Ming asked the Gardai to use discretion on his acccount but then railed against that very discretion calling it corruption. What did he or you expect, for the whole force to bite their lips in spite of his dupllicity?

Just shows the sort of bad yoke Ming is. Went on VB show the night before Garda Donohue's funeral and said the entire garda force was corrupt.

kerry4sam

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

Just shows the sort of bad yoke Ming is. Went on VB show the night before Garda Donohue's funeral and said the entire garda force was corrupt.

As much as Kerry folk get slated for electing the Healy Rae Clan into Dáil Éireann, we sure didn't elect anyone as near as disrespectful or flippant as Ming Flanagan or Mick Wallace and I am glad about that!

maryishere

the calibre of politicians in this country is very poor.

despite that, they are paid too much. there are too many of 'em too.

squod

kerry4sam wrote: »

As much as Kerry folk get slated for electing the Healy Rae Clan into Dáil Éireann, we sure didn't elect anyone as near as disrespectful or flippant as Ming Flanagan or Mick Wallace and I am glad about that!

Are you kidding me?? John O'Donoghue? That lad from Kerry with the expensive tastes? The man who was fiddling so while Rome was burning. Remember him?

keeponhurling

Very poor form from Shatter. Her should resign, but this being Ireland probably won't.

Even more curious is Enda's 100% support remark. He could have tried to argue that it's not a resigning offence, but 100% support suggests there is nothing at all wrong with what Shatter did.

Defending the indefensible?

Xenophile

Olivia O'Leary on Alan Shatter.

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20204976%3A0%3A%3A

General General

Our MoJ will brazen this out... fair play.

Piliger

maryishere wrote: »

the calibre of politicians in this country is very poor.

despite that, they are paid too much. there are too many of 'em too.

What kind of normal rational person would stand for election when all they get is mindless hate campaigns by the media a trollers.

We get what we deserve.

Piliger

CJC999 wrote: »

Wallace is a big thick, stupid dumb animal with the intelligence of a bucket of sand.

Did I mention Wallace is a big thick ignorant oaf?

He certainly is.

Shatter is doing a damned good job ...

Cody Pomeray

Piliger wrote: »

What kind of normal rational person would stand for election when all they get is mindless hate campaigns...

...Or when they are expected to forsake basic civil rights whenever the Minister for Justice desires political retribution.

Alan Shatter has denigrated Irish political life... he has more in common with Wallace than he thinks.

Xenophile

General General wrote: »

Our MoJ will brazen this out... fair play.

This is his Waterloo, Two things worth mentioning.............I am an FG supporter and Olivia O'Leary is a fair minded person.

Xenophile

Anybody with an open mind have a listen to the Olivia O'Leary contribution, and for the others there is no more to be said.

Cody Pomeray

Xenophile wrote: »

Anybody with an open mind have a listen to the Olivia O'Leary contribution, and for the others there is no more to be said.

It came on the radio about half an hour before Shatter's speech. I wondered whether Shatter had heard it, and perhaps attempted to take O'Leary's advice on appearing humble.

Unfortunately, humility is beyond the boundaries of Shatter's supposed brilliance. An un-necessary tangent about being stopped for speeding ended with a condescending aside about the Garda being wrong and Shatter being correct.

Then, his apology to Wallace came across as faint hearted, and conditional.

The outcome of the SIPO investigations might well put manners or marching orders on the Minister.

TheUsual

This will hurt seriously Fianna Gael in the next elections.
Voters remember these things, e.g. Michael McDowell.

Which is a good thing.
So therefore I like Shatter.

Piliger

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

...Or when they are expected to forsake basic civil rights whenever the Minister for Justice desires political retribution.

Alan Shatter has denigrated Irish political life... he has more in common with Wallace than he thinks.

Shatter has done an excellent job. Wallace has no right to keeping his law breaking activities secret.

Cody Pomeray

Piliger wrote: »

Shatter has done an excellent job. Wallace has no right to keeping his law breaking activities secret.

Actually he does. Individuals are entitled to the protection of their Garda records as private documents in law.

It is not appropriate for the Government to release the private data of their opponents; this is data entrusted to the State, not the Government. Its abuse represents a massive over-reaction by a Minister who appears worryingly temperamental.

jackpension

Storm in a teacup. I'm not a FG fan, but Shatter is one of the hardest working members of Dail Eireann. It would be sad if his hubris got in the way

How many pieces of legislation has Wallace passed through? Really Wallace should do what he is paid to do, instead of making trouble.

Piliger

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Actually he does. Individuals are entitled to the protection of their Garda records as private documents in law.

It is not appropriate for the Government to release the private data of their opponents; this is data entrusted to the State, not the Government. Its abuse represents a massive over-reaction by a Minister who appears worryingly temperamental.

Nonsense. he is a public representative and we have a right to know if he is breaking the law. This is TRUTH ... not data and your obsessive hate for Shatter is transparent and irrational

Cody Pomeray

Piliger wrote: »

Nonsense. he is a public representative and we have a right to know if he is breaking the law. This is TRUTH

You don't need to resort to capital letters, caps lock doesn't give your suggestion any logical basis either.

A public representative has the same civil rights as the rest of us. I don't think a TD's salary, generous as it is, is quite enough to buy out the right to individual privacy - especially when they have not been deemed guilty of an offence.

hatrickpatrick

Why in God's name are so many people making this a one camp or the other debate?
You can detest Wallace AND think that Shatter is an absolute disgrace for doing what he did. It's not question of picking the winner in this argument. Wallace is a gobsh!te, Shatter is also a gobsh!te. Both of them belong in the national disgrace category.

jackpension

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why in God's name are so many people making this a one camp or the other debate?
You can detest Wallace AND think that Shatter is an absolute disgrace for doing what he did. It's not question of picking the winner in this argument. Wallace is a gobsh!te, Shatter is also a gobsh!te. Both of them belong in the national disgrace category.

There is no winner. Except Fianna Fail. They'll win the next election

Piliger

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

You don't need to resort to capital letters, caps lock doesn't give your suggestion any logical basis either.

I get you ...

A public representative has the same civil rights as the rest of us. I don't think a TD's salary, generous as it is, is quite enough to buy out the right to individual privacy - especially when they have not been deemed guilty of an offence.

Breaking the law is a public issue and should never ever be a secret unless national security is at stake. (and somehow I doubt if anything this chump Wallace could ever do in his life would rise to that level). being found guilty is not the measure of privacy. Being accused or arrested is also justification for public knowledge and going by the rampant garbage about politicians in the media on in these boards every week, any stupid rumour about a politician can be spread all over the media.

We the people have a right to know and there is no law that prevents us from knowing. Shatter was totally right to make it known.

Piliger

jackpension wrote: »

There is no winner. Except Fianna Fail. They'll win the next election

This will bolster FG and FF have no chance. It'll be another coalition. They have done a good job so far.

General General

Xenophile wrote: »

This is his Waterloo, Two things worth mentioning.............I am an FG supporter and Olivia O'Leary is a fair minded person.

Waterloo in the sense of ABBA, perhaps.

I tell you, the way this guy plays the hands he deals himself makes me think we will see him rise & rise & rise...

General General

Piliger wrote: »

I get you ...

Breaking the law is a public issue and should never ever be a secret unless national security is at stake. (and somehow I doubt if anything this chump Wallace could ever do in his life would rise to that level). being found guilty is not the measure of privacy. Being accused or arrested is also justification for public knowledge and going by the rampant garbage about politicians in the media on in these boards every week, any stupid rumour about a politician can be spread all over the media.

We the people have a right to know and there is no law that prevents us from knowing. Shatter was totally right to make it known.

I agree that there are circumstances where a MoJ should reveal information, even live on air, when a law is being broken or a law has been broken. I think that, even if breaching codes, standards, regulations & laws, the Minister for Justice would show honour & bravery in exposing some crimes.

I am less sure that any Minister of Justice could be seen as brave or honorable in revealing an arrest for or an accusation of the committing of a crime.

However, I'm not sure how either of the above applies to this Wallace case.

Wasn't the charge made by the Minister against Wallace one of hypocrisy?

Cody Pomeray

Piliger wrote: »

Breaking the law is a public issue and should never ever be a secret unless national security is at stake.

That might be how you would like the system to be run, but legally, that is not the case. Disclosure of the alleged commission of an offence by a named individual is prohibited under Data Protection legislation.

This issue here is that the Minister for Justice is engaged in vigilantism - he has taken the law into his own hands. Not only that, he has done it in a political debate.

P. Breathnach

Piliger wrote: »

...
Breaking the law is a public issue ...

Was Wallace convicted of anything?

Hondo75

[QUOTE=Cody Pomeray;84666599.

Shatter is an unpopular figure within Government.[/QUOTE]

What do you base this comment on?Whos your source in government?

smeedyova

Piliger wrote: »

Being accused or arrested is also justification for public knowledge...

So, Piliger, for example, if your neighbour's child were to falsely accuse you of having molested her, your position is that this information should immediately be put into the public domain for all of the world to know? You would like to live in a world like that?

bgrizzley

looks like more trouble for Shatter...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/d%C3%A1il-hears-shatter-involved-in-incident-in-garda-checkpoint-1.1404219

cournioni

Shatter is an awful arrogant cnut. I would be delighted if he fcuked off.

Banjo String

Piliger wrote: »

Shatter has done an excellent job. Wallace has no right to keeping his law breaking activities secret.

Good for the goose abd all that Mr Piliger, eh?

JUSTICE Minister Alan Shatter was at the centre of controversy again today after a TD raised questions in the Dail about whether he tried to avoid a breathalyser test.


Independent TD Mattie McGrath asked Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore if he was aware if Mr Shatter had been stopped at a garda checkpoint, had been asked to produce a specimen of breath and whether “his behaviour and reaction to this request was appropriate and indeed cordial”.

Mr McMcGrath also asked if Mr Shatter had attempted to use the privilege enjoyed by TDs on not being arrested from travelling to and from the Dail “as a means of avoiding the breath test”.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-shatter-controversy-as-questions-raised-in-dail-about-garda-checkpoint-incident-29290981.html

Let's hear the FG fanboys justify this one so.

Shatter will hopefully resign over this.

mikom

SamHall wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-shatter-controversy-as-questions-raised-in-dail-about-garda-checkpoint-incident-29290981.html

Let's hear the FG fanboys justify this one so.

Shatter will hopefully resign over this.

Enda is behind him 100%.................

My name is URL

Back in 2010, Shatter called for Willie O'Dea to resign over using details given to him by Gardai for his own political gain.

“What Minister O’Dea admitted yesterday is that he willingly and publicly discussed, for his own electoral gain, confidential information furnished to him by a member of An Garda Síochána. Such conduct is entirely unacceptable by any minister in any Government. Such conduct by a Minister for Defence, part of whose constitutional duty is to secure the security of the State, renders the Minster unfit for Cabinet office.

“No member of the gardaí, nor any member of the Defence Forces, can now in any way be assured that confidential information furnished to this minister will not be misused and be made public. The Minister s position is no longer defensible, and it is a sad reflection on the judgment of both the Taoiseach and the Green members of Government, that he remains in Cabinet"

Hypocritical little slug of a man.

Piliger

SamHall wrote: »

Good for the goose abd all that Mr Piliger, eh?



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-shatter-controversy-as-questions-raised-in-dail-about-garda-checkpoint-incident-29290981.html

Let's hear the FG fanboys justify this one so.

Shatter will hopefully resign over this.

Fascinating. Where is the outrage over this being made public ? Or could we just be witnessing yet another case of dribbling political hypocrisy.

bgrizzley

Piliger wrote: »

Fascinating. Where is the outrage over this being made public ? Or could we just be witnessing yet another case of dribbling political hypocrisy.

I am absolutely disgusted that Minister Shatter has been caught out and i hope he ignores these outrageous question posed by that McGrath feellow...

Paddy De Plasterer

Xenophile wrote: »

This is his Waterloo, Two things worth mentioning.............I am an FG supporter and Olivia O'Leary is a fair minded person.

she is like hell, praised Cowen, and said Mary Coughlan was a person of the people !

Cody Pomeray

Piliger wrote: »

Fascinating. Where is the outrage over this being made public ? Or could we just be witnessing yet another case of dribbling political hypocrisy.

Look on the politics thread, or twitter. Many people seem to agree that such information should never be released. Shatter should resign over his abuse of his position, not over this.

At the same time, I suppose it is a little bit funny just because of how worked up you can imagine Shatter getting over this leak.

Paddy De Plasterer

Mattie McGrath makes outrageous allegations under privilege in Dail, but wont repeat them outside it. On 28/3/12 he made outrageous allegations against a snr garda officer and a judge, again under privilege in Dail.