Junior Cert English Essay Choices

Jack_OLantern

Hey guys, so as you know the Junior Cert is coming up pretty soon (I hope everyone is studying more than I am or you're all in deep s***) and I am really hoping for a good mark in English.

I've done 2 really good essays which my teacher gave me an A in (easy marker but I'll take it), one was a short story and one was a debate speech.

The short story was one I did for the mocks and I only got 48/70. I showed it to my teacher who said it was worth at least 65. I felt that the examiner simply didn't read it.

I do understand though that it is hard for an examiner to be flicking through dozens of scripts, half of which will be useless, and theyre not going to get everything right.

So my question is, if I do a regular essay or debate speech, is it easier to get more marks in as it stands out more? Is it also easier in terms of it's ability to tick all the boxes whereas a short story can be very opinionated?

Thanks. Also, are the mocks marked more hard than the regular exam? I felt I was really hard done by in the mocks (only 62%) when I feel like I should be getting an A.

positivealf

Same thing happened to me, I got 20/70 and managed to get a C in English. Tbh I'm not going to memorise another stupid story, what's the point? English to me is the only test where i can actually use my head unlike the other exams where you have to memorise tons of crap and write it down on the day.

dee_mc

Hi OP, thought it might help you to have an insight into how each English essay is marked for the Junior Cert.
Out of 70 marks, the breakdown is: Content 20, Structure 15, Expression 30, Mechanics 5.
Content meaning the subject/theme of your story: generally, to score well in terms of content, you should 'write what you know', e.g. characters in short stories should be similar to yourself or people you know, and should be in situations and geographical settings that you can describe confidently.
Structure meaning that your work is laid out in the appropriate style or 'register' for the question you have chosen to answer: to score well in terms of structure, you need to know the format expected when writing each essay. For example, a short story should have a simple plot, very few characters, some change in these characters, and a clear resolution. The easiest way to write a Junior Cert short story is to come up with a maximum of 3 characters, give the main one a problem, and in the course of the short story let him/her try to solve that problem.
A speech should begin with an appropriate greeting, and is usually required to persuade an audience. If the question doesn't state who the audience is, then you choose: but obviously your speech will vary greatly if you're delivering it to a group of fellow students, or if you're delivering it to the teachers and Principal of the school. You should assume that your audience, at the beginning of the speech, disagree with your view: your task is to persuade them that your point of view is the right one. In general you should have 3 or 4 main arguments, and expand on each of them very well, using examples, statistics (which you can make up) to back up your points, etc. The language you use is important in a speech: you must come across as confident, and using words such as 'firstly', 'secondly', 'furthermore', 'in conclusion', 'therefore' etc to punctuate your points helps you to get your point across well.
Expression means how you put your point across by using appropriate language. This means you need to have a wide vocabulary: not necessarily using lots of big words, but using the words you know efficiently and correctly. To do well in terms of expression, you need to make sure your grammar is correct, and that your sentences aren't too long. You also need to make sure any dialogue (conversation between characters) is realistic, and uses the correct punctuation marks.
Mechanics is all about your spelling and grammar. If you are unsure of how a certain word is spelt, try to think of another word that means the same thing!
It is very unusual for a student to get full marks for one section and low marks in the others, as all of the sections overlap to some extent.
If you pay attention to structuring your essays you will get on well.
You asked if mock exams are marked harder than the Junior Cert. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't: it depends on the person who marks your mock exam. The Junior Cert correctors are trained and follow very detailed marking schemes, so rest assured that your work will be read and analysed in detail before a mark is given. As you can see above, it's not a case of glancing at an essay and saying 'that looks like it deserves 50 out of 70'!
Good luck with your study and if you'd like links to tips on writing short stories, speeches etc let me know.

DublinArnie

Write a story .. and go through the 2012-2002 past papers, check the personal writing sections, and make sure every year, you can change the essay slightly to fit the topic, that's what I did for my mocks. I've used an opening paragraph i've learned and made up rest of the story, scored a 58/70 on it, not bad for an essay with little detail and made on the day. The essay was 2 1/2 pages too, and i've worth it in about 40mins. :rolleyes:

Jack_OLantern

dee_mc wrote: »

Hi OP, thought it might help you to have an insight into how each English essay is marked for the Junior Cert.
Out of 70 marks, the breakdown is: Content 20, Structure 15, Expression 30, Mechanics 5.
Content meaning the subject/theme of your story: generally, to score well in terms of content, you should 'write what you know', e.g. characters in short stories should be similar to yourself or people you know, and should be in situations and geographical settings that you can describe confidently.
Structure meaning that your work is laid out in the appropriate style or 'register' for the question you have chosen to answer: to score well in terms of structure, you need to know the format expected when writing each essay. For example, a short story should have a simple plot, very few characters, some change in these characters, and a clear resolution. The easiest way to write a Junior Cert short story is to come up with a maximum of 3 characters, give the main one a problem, and in the course of the short story let him/her try to solve that problem.
A speech should begin with an appropriate greeting, and is usually required to persuade an audience. If the question doesn't state who the audience is, then you choose: but obviously your speech will vary greatly if you're delivering it to a group of fellow students, or if you're delivering it to the teachers and Principal of the school. You should assume that your audience, at the beginning of the speech, disagree with your view: your task is to persuade them that your point of view is the right one. In general you should have 3 or 4 main arguments, and expand on each of them very well, using examples, statistics (which you can make up) to back up your points, etc. The language you use is important in a speech: you must come across as confident, and using words such as 'firstly', 'secondly', 'furthermore', 'in conclusion', 'therefore' etc to punctuate your points helps you to get your point across well.
Expression means how you put your point across by using appropriate language. This means you need to have a wide vocabulary: not necessarily using lots of big words, but using the words you know efficiently and correctly. To do well in terms of expression, you need to make sure your grammar is correct, and that your sentences aren't too long. You also need to make sure any dialogue (conversation between characters) is realistic, and uses the correct punctuation marks.
Mechanics is all about your spelling and grammar. If you are unsure of how a certain word is spelt, try to think of another word that means the same thing!
It is very unusual for a student to get full marks for one section and low marks in the others, as all of the sections overlap to some extent.
If you pay attention to structuring your essays you will get on well.
You asked if mock exams are marked harder than the Junior Cert. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't: it depends on the person who marks your mock exam. The Junior Cert correctors are trained and follow very detailed marking schemes, so rest assured that your work will be read and analysed in detail before a mark is given. As you can see above, it's not a case of glancing at an essay and saying 'that looks like it deserves 50 out of 70'!
Good luck with your study and if you'd like links to tips on writing short stories, speeches etc let me know.

Hi, thanks for the help. I just had a few questions. Do you lose many marks for errors that you accidentally make? For instance saying "the" instead of "they". I forget what it's called.

Is it better to write a debate speech or a short story, because as I said I got an A in both from my teacher, but the short story only got me a C in the mocks. I felt that the examiner hadnt read it correctly or had done so in a rush.

Also, with the short story, I did it as a sort of "looking back on life" and I left it like an open ended chapter, or the end of a book in a series. So, I didn't really answer all the questions I had created to give an air of mystery, good idea or bad?

Thanks.

Jack_OLantern

positivealf wrote: »

Same thing happened to me, I got 20/70 and managed to get a C in English. Tbh I'm not going to memorise another stupid story, what's the point? English to me is the only test where i can actually use my head unlike the other exams where you have to memorise tons of crap and write it down on the day.

That's why I love it. No study!!! Yeah just write a really good one and twist it on to a title, like one that begins with a phrase or something.

dee_mc

Jack_OLantern wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the help. I just had a few questions. Do you lose many marks for errors that you accidentally make? For instance saying "the" instead of "they". I forget what it's called.

Is it better to write a debate speech or a short story, because as I said I got an A in both from my teacher, but the short story only got me a C in the mocks. I felt that the examiner hadnt read it correctly or had done so in a rush.

Also, with the short story, I did it as a sort of "looking back on life" and I left it like an open ended chapter, or the end of a book in a series. So, I didn't really answer all the questions I had created to give an air of mystery, good idea or bad?

Thanks.

Hi again!
Try not to make too many little mistakes like 'they' instead of 'the'; you will lose a maximum of 5 marks out of 70 with these sorts of errors and would only lose the full 5 marks if there were several mistakes, my best advice on that would be to schedule time at the end of the exam to read over your entire paper and correct any mistakes you spot! This also gives you a chance to finish off questions you might not have finished. I also recommend leaving a blank page in your answer book after each question/section in case you decide to write more on reading over the answer.
This is the breakdown I recommend for the paper:
Breakdown of paper 1(approximate timing)
5 mins: read entire paper and mark questions that mightappeal to you
Reading section: 25 mins (worth 40 marks)
Personal writing: 55 minutes (worth 70 marks)
Functional writing: 25 minutes (worth 30 marks)
Media studies: 30 minutes (worth 40 marks)
This leaves you with 15 minutes extra time to read over youranswers and finish off anything you didn’t have time for earlier.
(I know, 15 minutes sounds like ages, but it's not! Stick to your timings and you'll be glad to have that 15 minutes to read over your own personal masterpiece!)

I don't know how to advise you re speech versus short story, as it depends on the style of writing you're most comfortable with and confident about: IMO students will usually score better for speeches, letters etc as they tend to be more familiar with the format required, than for short stories which can be difficult to get right in such a short timeframe.
Maybe you could try writing a short story in 55 minutes, paying attention to the tips in my post above, and see how you feel about it yourself?
I see where DublinArnie is coming from with the approach of having a 'one-size-fits-all' short story, but maybe you could also consider writing one or two 'one-size-fits-all' characters that you could use in a short story for the Junior Cert? It's hard to come up with interesting, convincing characters on the spot, so it might help to have a couple in mind
I like your idea of finishing your short story in such a way that some questions are left unanswered, but you must make sure you have a clear conclusion at the same time!
Just make sure that, to the eyes of the examiner, it doesn't just look like you ran out of time and stopped writing because you had to!
Hope that helps!

positivealf

dee_mc wrote: »

Hi again!
Try not to make too many little mistakes like 'they' instead of 'the'; you will lose a maximum of 5 marks out of 70 with these sorts of errors and would only lose the full 5 marks if there were several mistakes, my best advice on that would be to schedule time at the end of the exam to read over your entire paper and correct any mistakes you spot! This also gives you a chance to finish off questions you might not have finished. I also recommend leaving a blank page in your answer book after each question/section in case you decide to write more on reading over the answer.
This is the breakdown I recommend for the paper:
Breakdown of paper 1(approximate timing)
5 mins: read entire paper and mark questions that mightappeal to you
Reading section: 25 mins (worth 40 marks)
Personal writing: 55 minutes (worth 70 marks)
Functional writing: 25 minutes (worth 30 marks)
Media studies: 30 minutes (worth 40 marks)
This leaves you with 15 minutes extra time to read over youranswers and finish off anything you didn’t have time for earlier.
(I know, 15 minutes sounds like ages, but it's not! Stick to your timings and you'll be glad to have that 15 minutes to read over your own personal masterpiece!)

I don't know how to advise you re speech versus short story, as it depends on the style of writing you're most comfortable with and confident about: IMO students will usually score better for speeches, letters etc as they tend to be more familiar with the format required, than for short stories which can be difficult to get right in such a short timeframe.
Maybe you could try writing a short story in 55 minutes, paying attention to the tips in my post above, and see how you feel about it yourself?
I see where DublinArnie is coming from with the approach of having a 'one-size-fits-all' short story, but maybe you could also consider writing one or two 'one-size-fits-all' characters that you could use in a short story for the Junior Cert? It's hard to come up with interesting, convincing characters on the spot, so it might help to have a couple in mind
I like your idea of finishing your short story in such a way that some questions are left unanswered, but you must make sure you have a clear conclusion at the same time!
Just make sure that, to the eyes of the examiner, it doesn't just look like you ran out of time and stopped writing because you had to!
Hope that helps!

In the pastpapers there are rarely any options for speeches or letter in personal writings all there is are compositions., or perhaps I'm just seeing things. As for speeches my examiner said my speech was excellent and gave me like 20/70 and said SECSM(something like that) my English teacher is sh*t so she couldn't be bothered to explain it thoroughly. What does SECSM mean? and how should i use it? It must be important if the examiner was kind enough to call my speech excellent and then take 50 marks of it

spurious

positivealf wrote: »

In the pastpapers there are rarely any options for speeches or letter in personal writings all there is are compositions., or perhaps I'm just seeing things. As for speeches my examiner said my speech was excellent and gave me like 20/70 and said SECSM(something like that) my English teacher is sh*t so she couldn't be bothered to explain it thoroughly. What does SECSM mean? and how should i use it? It must be important if the examiner was kind enough to call my speech excellent and then take 50 marks of it

What examiner?

dee_mc

Content 20, Structure 15, Expression 30, Mechanics 5. That'd be the SECM they have to mark you on. That's explained in my earlier post near the top ^^^
If you look again at your mock paper, the 'excellent' comment was probably written beside just one of these, for example he/she meant that your content was excellent, while the way it was expressed, or the structure, or the mechanics were the areas in which you lost marks.
Re letters and speeches not coming up in that section on past papers, in 2011 (just for example) there was the choice of writing a speech OR a short story OR a choice of several compositions. You're quite right re letters, that was my mistake, although letters often come up in the functional writing section so you should still make sure you know the correct structure to use

Think I'm causing confusion when I refer to the examiner, I mean the person who marks your paper!

positivealf

spurious wrote: »

What examiner?

The person that corrected my essay.

positivealf

dee_mc wrote: »

Content 20, Structure 15, Expression 30, Mechanics 5. That'd be the SECM they have to mark you on. That's explained in my earlier post near the top ^^^
If you look again at your mock paper, the 'excellent' comment was probably written beside just one of these, for example he/she meant that your content was excellent, while the way it was expressed, or the structure, or the mechanics were the areas in which you lost marks.
Re letters and speeches not coming up in that section on past papers, in 2011 (just for example) there was the choice of writing a speech OR a short story OR a choice of several compositions. You're quite right re letters, that was my mistake, although letters often come up in the functional writing section so you should still make sure you know the correct structure to use

Think I'm causing confusion when I refer to the examiner, I mean the person who marks your paper!

Oh thanks!

spurious

positivealf wrote: »

The person that corrected my essay.

Someone employed by one of the mock companies, or an experienced SEC examiner?
Many of the mock companies use students to correct. I'd be very careful of anything being put out by a company who are in the business of making money, not running exams.

Jack_OLantern

spurious wrote: »

Someone employed by one of the mock companies, or an experienced SEC examiner?
Many of the mock companies use students to correct. I'd be very careful of anything being put out by a company who are in the business of making money, not running exams.

Really??? So they just use students, or at least unqualified people? That would actually make sense, my mock examiner didn't seem to read my script properly at all.

Jack_OLantern

dee_mc wrote: »

Hi again!
Try not to make too many little mistakes like 'they' instead of 'the'; you will lose a maximum of 5 marks out of 70 with these sorts of errors and would only lose the full 5 marks if there were several mistakes, my best advice on that would be to schedule time at the end of the exam to read over your entire paper and correct any mistakes you spot! This also gives you a chance to finish off questions you might not have finished. I also recommend leaving a blank page in your answer book after each question/section in case you decide to write more on reading over the answer.
This is the breakdown I recommend for the paper:
Breakdown of paper 1(approximate timing)
5 mins: read entire paper and mark questions that mightappeal to you
Reading section: 25 mins (worth 40 marks)
Personal writing: 55 minutes (worth 70 marks)
Functional writing: 25 minutes (worth 30 marks)
Media studies: 30 minutes (worth 40 marks)
This leaves you with 15 minutes extra time to read over youranswers and finish off anything you didn’t have time for earlier.
(I know, 15 minutes sounds like ages, but it's not! Stick to your timings and you'll be glad to have that 15 minutes to read over your own personal masterpiece!)

I don't know how to advise you re speech versus short story, as it depends on the style of writing you're most comfortable with and confident about: IMO students will usually score better for speeches, letters etc as they tend to be more familiar with the format required, than for short stories which can be difficult to get right in such a short timeframe.
Maybe you could try writing a short story in 55 minutes, paying attention to the tips in my post above, and see how you feel about it yourself?
I see where DublinArnie is coming from with the approach of having a 'one-size-fits-all' short story, but maybe you could also consider writing one or two 'one-size-fits-all' characters that you could use in a short story for the Junior Cert? It's hard to come up with interesting, convincing characters on the spot, so it might help to have a couple in mind
I like your idea of finishing your short story in such a way that some questions are left unanswered, but you must make sure you have a clear conclusion at the same time!
Just make sure that, to the eyes of the examiner, it doesn't just look like you ran out of time and stopped writing because you had to!
Hope that helps!

Thanks! My teacher gave me a similar timimg scheme, but didn't leave any time at the end. I think your suggestion is a good one, so I'll try to leave that extra 15 minutes at the end! :-)

spurious

Jack_OLantern wrote: »

Really??? So they just use students, or at least unqualified people? That would actually make sense, my mock examiner didn't seem to read my script properly at all.

They pay very badly indeed (in some cases a quarter of what the SEC pay, which is not a huge amount anyway), so many teachers won't do it as by the time tax and all the other deductions are taken it's not worth doing.

DublinArnie

spurious wrote: »

They pay very badly indeed (in some cases a quarter of what the SEC pay, which is not a huge amount anyway), so many teachers won't do it as by the time tax and all the other deductions are taken it's not worth doing.

My mock papers were corrected by MY teachers

dee_mc

DublinArnie wrote: »

My mock papers were corrected by MY teachers

That's sometimes the case DublinArnie, obviously it costs money to have papers corrected externally, so some schools have a policy of each teacher correcting his/her own students' work.
It doesn't make a great deal of difference in the scheme of things, as spurious mentioned above mock papers are sometimes marked quite poorly (i.e. with little attention to detail) so some teachers opt to correct their own so that they don't have to waste time collecting money from students, and so that they know what standard the papers were marked to.

DublinArnie

dee_mc wrote: »

That's sometimes the case DublinArnie, obviously it costs money to have papers corrected externally, so some schools have a policy of each teacher correcting his/her own students' work.
It doesn't make a great deal of difference in the scheme of things, as spurious mentioned above mock papers are sometimes marked quite poorly (i.e. with little attention to detail) so some teachers opt to correct their own so that they don't have to waste time collecting money from students, and so that they know what standard the papers were marked to.

I think teachers marking their students' work isn't good. Because teachers could mark very hard to certain students so that we would get the impression to work harder, or vice versa. I know a few teachers marked my paper too hard and a few marked it too light, I would of prefered someone who doesn't know me as a student to mark my work. :rolleyes:

dee_mc

DublinArnie wrote: »

I think teachers marking their students' work isn't good. Because teachers could mark very hard to certain students so that we would get the impression to work harder, or vice versa. I know a few teachers marked my paper too hard and a few marked it too light, I would of prefered someone who doesn't know me as a student to mark my work. :rolleyes:

That's a point, but usually when a teacher marks his own students hard it's to try to motivate that student to work harder (I know, I know, usually doesn't work!); Just take what you can from your mock results: at the end of the day their only purpose is to help you see where you did well and where you can improve.
If you're unsure of where you lost marks it's always a good idea to very pleasantly ask the teacher what points you could have included in order to score a better mark on an individual question.
As for teachers marking some students' work harder than others, I presume you're hinting at favouritism: I know that happens sometimes and it sucks but don't let your standard slide in response to it; you don't have to sink to anyone's level of immaturity or unfairness, just try to rise above it

Edit: Also bear in mind, a qualified person who has no idea who you are, no preconceptions, and another marker spot-checking their work, will be correcting your papers for the actual exam, so rest assured you'll be marked fairly when it matters.

DublinArnie

dee_mc wrote: »

That's a point, but usually when a teacher marks his own students hard it's to try to motivate that student to work harder (I know, I know, usually doesn't work!); Just take what you can from your mock results: at the end of the day their only purpose is to help you see where you did well and where you can improve.
If you're unsure of where you lost marks it's always a good idea to very pleasantly ask the teacher what points you could have included in order to score a better mark on an individual question.
As for teachers marking some students' work harder than others, I presume you're hinting at favouritism: I know that happens sometimes and it sucks but don't let your standard slide in response to it; you don't have to sink to anyone's level of immaturity or unfairness, just try to rise above it

Makes sense . I don't think favouritism happens in most of my classes, I actually think I would of got an A in English or a higher B if any of the other English teachers in my school marked it . But yea, it does motivate me and enrages me! I suppose that's a good thing, and i'm really happy with my results as I hardly studied . I remember some kid in my class got like 76% on his CSPE mocks ... he got the teacher to re-read it and he ended up with like 90% ... I smell briberly :rolleyes:.

Jack_OLantern

DublinArnie wrote: »

Makes sense . I don't think favouritism happens in most of my classes, I actually think I would of got an A in English or a higher B if any of the other English teachers in my school marked it . But yea, it does motivate me and enrages me! I suppose that's a good thing, and i'm really happy with my results as I hardly studied . I remember some kid in my class got like 76% on his CSPE mocks ... he got the teacher to re-read it and he ended up with like 90% ... I smell briberly :rolleyes:.

It's weird, some teachers mark things way too easily, and some will kill you for the tiniest mistake! They also have idea's about students. My friend is really good at English, but the teacher only gave him a C because he doesn't like him! It's weird...

DublinArnie

Jack_OLantern wrote: »

It's weird, some teachers mark things way too easily, and some will kill you for the tiniest mistake! They also have idea's about students. My friend is really good at English, but the teacher only gave him a C because he doesn't like him! It's weird...

Same with my friend! He's a teachers pet all over my English teacher and he got a C xd. I got a B so I guess he loves me more .

positivealf

Guys i went on examinations.ie and clicked 2013....lol thanks dublin

DublinArnie

positivealf wrote: »

Guys i went on examinations.ie and clicked 2013 in material archive and i found Link Modules and French 2013 exams but they were only for leaving cert. I'm hoping i find the same for junior cert go on examinations and see for urself although it might be down by now

Obviously it's down by now because YOU POSTED IT ON BOARDS.IE! Quickly re-edit your post :rolleyes: and i'll be careful, I think it's against the charter to post anything about the current exams ...

dee_mc

DublinArnie wrote: »

Obviously it's down by now because YOU POSTED IT ON BOARDS.IE! Quickly re-edit your post :rolleyes: and i'll be careful, I think it's against the charter to post anything about the current exams ...

Link modules written exam was earlier this month

DublinArnie

dee_mc wrote: »

Link modules written exam was earlier this month

The 2013 Leaving Cert exam is avaiable online?

positivealf

dee_mc wrote: »

Link modules written exam was earlier this month

wat about french one tho?

dee_mc

DublinArnie wrote: »

The 2013 Leaving Cert exam is avaiable online?

Yea, the students already sat the paper, what's the big deal?! Dept of Ed being efficient, that's a good thing

DublinArnie

dee_mc wrote: »

Yea, the students already sat the paper, what's the big deal?! Dept of Ed being efficient, that's a good thing

Oh :eek: I never knew that! I thought they only sat Orals so far .

dee_mc

positivealf wrote: »

wat about french one tho?

No idea, probably just a link to nothing put up by mistake? Don't worry, you won't see the 2013 papers for exams that haven't taken place yet, and if they were by any chance put online by mistake the paper would be promptly changed