Smelly,Thick Rockers according to the Irish Times

Nea

Here is an article to make the blood boil.This article has me fuming,the Irish Times actually wrote an insightful article last year on the Irish Metal scene which was great to see in a daily Irish paper. But this article has me speechless.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/we-don-t-need-no-high-cost-high-brow-heavy-metal-education-1.1394624

Knifey Spoony

I may be a thick, smelly metaller, but at least am not a pretentious @sshole who tries to pass off writing about stereotypes as real journalism.

The idea of a degree in metal is a bit silly though, but I'm not gonna get up in a huff in you wanna go ahead and do it.

Links234

1. Write insulting argument in order to outrage people
2. Outraged people spread the article far and wide via social media
3. Reap the additional ad revenue

modern gutter journalism 101, lazy and blatant as it comes.

Angron

Guy's an absolute moron, so I see no reason to take his opinion seriously. I agree with the comment: "Is this really the only way the IT can make their money these days? Embarrassing. " Links :P

Cavehill Red

I know of two business owners who cancelled their subscriptions on the basis of that article. They may well continue to read online, but the online ad revenue won't come close to what the paper has lost through the physical sales. The IT might want to reconsider how they troll their readership in future if it has that sort of effect on their bottom line.

Mr.Ed

When is the last time a metal band wore make-up to look metal haha this guy is only getting hit by the hair metal wave now proves how out of touch he is with music

Angron

Mr.Ed wrote: »

When is the last time a metal band wore make-up to look metal haha this guy is only getting hit by the hair metal wave now proves how out of touch he is with music

Black metal?

Mr.Ed

Angron wrote: »

Black metal?

fair point haha now who looks out of touch :pac: but in all fairness not all black metal bands wear make up

Angron

Yeah true, it's the only way I can figure it though.

Say Your Number

The lad is really taking a hammering in the comment section :pac:

DazMarz

Moronic journalist is moronic.

The problem with this article is not that it is poorly written, researched, executed and highly insulting. The problem lies in the fact that it will continue to enforce stereotypes about heavy metal in the mainstream. I like The Irish Times as a paper. It has one of the highest readerships in the country and it is regarded by many as the country's best national newspaper.

And herein lies the problem. Vast numbers of people will have read this article and will think that they are now "informed" about heavy metal as a genre. Why not watch a Sam Dunn documentary instead for a real look at heavy metal. Heavy metal and all its subgenres is sadly overlooked and maligned by the mainstream (or maybe is that a good thing).

It'd be harmless if it was just giving out about the look or the sound of heavy metal, but no. Heavy metal artists and their fans are painted almost universally as satanic, evil, maniacs who sing about death and violence and commit acts of violence. Utter bollocks, of course. But that is an image that has been painted.

It is useless "journalists" like the aforementioned Mr. Boyd who, going for a quick and easy-to-sell story, who will whip up a frenzy of moral outrage to rail against heavy metal from time to time. In the late-60's and 1970's, metal music was seen as evil. It came to a head in the 1980's with the PMRC and bands being called before Congress to defend their music and their way of life. Add to the fact that Judas Priest were sued by the families of two young men who committed suicide as they were blamed for it by inciting suicide through their music.

This is nothing new; people fear and loathe what they do not, cannot or will not understand. Heavy metal is no different. People fear their kids will be corrupted by listening to heavy metal (I would argue they and their views on life would be more corrupted by listening to vapid, sexist, talentless, idiotic and braindead modern music like hip-hop, R n B, and so on). People despise heavy metal for its loud riffs and solos and drum beats (little caring the pure and enormous amount of talent that kind of stuff takes; compare that to hip-hop where a few ill-fitting lyrics and a drum machine can make a whole album).

The fear and loathing reserved for heavy metal stems largely from isolated incidents in the past; church burnings and murders in Norway, the Columbine massacre (incidentally, neither Eric Harris nor Dylan Klebold listened to or even like Marilyn Manson who was almost universally blamed for the tragedy), teen suicides, etc. Heavy metal and its nihilistic songs almost take the total blame for such incidents. Never mind that they were perpetrated by people who were mentally ill and who would have committed the same acts regardless. But they might not have done if the moral guardians, who were so keen to pillory heavy metal, protested against inadequate mental health care and counselling for disturbed teenagers.

People, such as the incredibly un-illuminated Mr. Boyd, are of the general opinion that heavy metal is a simple music for simple people. Wrong, on so many levels. Listen to some heavy metal bands' lyrics. These songs are expertly crafted peons addressing issues as diverse as politics, sexuality, depression, domestic abuse, struggling against the odds, etc. The labour that goes into creating songs is immense. Add in the technical brilliance of the musicians; some of the greatest musicians ever to grace this planet have been heavy metal (or at least rock) musicians. They are so technically gifted it boggles the mind. It is not simple music.

And as for deriding fans of heavy metal as simple people (I think Mr. Boyd used tried to stereotype heavy metal fans as working in Burger King in his article, did he not?), I will also say that this is utter nonsense. I'm a huge heavy metal fan. I went to university. And while I was there, not a day went past that I did not see dozens of t-shirts or hoodies with heavy metal bands or logos on them. There were even out and out metal heads (in the full regalia) in the university. The ultimate haven of the learned class, universities, and they are full to the brim with heavy metal fans. Add in the large contingent of elder lemon fans (people who were teenagers in the 1980's) who are now family people but who still love their heavy metal. Are they all simpletons? Hardly. Mr. Boyd should check his facts more.

The musicians themselves often come up for some harsh criticism. Yes, it is hard to defend their actions sometimes. But the fact remains that in interviews and in person, most heavy metal musicians come across as intelligent, witty and passionate people. This is especially true of those who have been around for years (see: Lemmy, Hetfield, Steve Harris, Slash, Sixx, Coverdale, Iommi, Halford, Joe Elliot, Phil Collen, etc.). These guys are the old school of heavy metal and they are by no means the simpletons most people would like to believe they are. They care about their craft. And yes, back in the halcyon days of rock-star excess they behaved like a bunch of 5 year old in a toy shop. But they're older and wiser now, emphasis on the wiser part.

No other genre in the history of music has been so universally loathed and derided as heavy metal. People accuse heavy metal of being ignorant. I think they might want to consider who the truly ignorant people are.

nyarlothothep

Was he the guy who said him and his journalist friends did a lot of work to stamp out the likes of Yes when Jack Black was asked what music he listened to and he said Yes? Just read there that he slated dance music too.
Someone should write in an articulate letter to the Irish Times dismantling his argument from a highbrow position (to destroy the false stereotype), so that the general public know that his article is bullsh1t. I wouldn't get too annoyed though, he's just a journalist, what I find more annoying is that he reflects a bias in the media against metal.

Angron

DazMarz wrote: »

Moronic journalist is moronic.

The problem with this article is not that it is poorly written, researched, executed and highly insulting. The problem lies in the fact that it will continue to enforce stereotypes about heavy metal in the mainstream. I like The Irish Times as a paper. It has one of the highest readerships in the country and it is regarded by many as the country's best national newspaper.

And herein lies the problem. Vast numbers of people will have read this article and will think that they are now "informed" about heavy metal as a genre. Why not watch a Sam Dunn documentary instead for a real look at heavy metal. Heavy metal and all its subgenres is sadly overlooked and maligned by the mainstream (or maybe is that a good thing).

It'd be harmless if it was just giving out about the look or the sound of heavy metal, but no. Heavy metal artists and their fans are painted almost universally as satanic, evil, maniacs who sing about death and violence and commit acts of violence. Utter bollocks, of course. But that is an image that has been painted.

It is useless "journalists" like the aforementioned Mr. Boyd who, going for a quick and easy-to-sell story, who will whip up a frenzy of moral outrage to rail against heavy metal from time to time. In the late-60's and 1970's, metal music was seen as evil. It came to a head in the 1980's with the PMRC and bands being called before Congress to defend their music and their way of life. Add to the fact that Judas Priest were sued by the families of two young men who committed suicide as they were blamed for it by inciting suicide through their music.

This is nothing new; people fear and loathe what they do not, cannot or will not understand. Heavy metal is no different. People fear their kids will be corrupted by listening to heavy metal (I would argue they and their views on life would be more corrupted by listening to vapid, sexist, talentless, idiotic and braindead modern music like hip-hop, R n B, and so on). People despise heavy metal for its loud riffs and solos and drum beats (little caring the pure and enormous amount of talent that kind of stuff takes; compare that to hip-hop where a few ill-fitting lyrics and a drum machine can make a whole album).

The fear and loathing reserved for heavy metal stems largely from isolated incidents in the past; church burnings and murders in Norway, the Columbine massacre (incidentally, neither Eric Harris nor Dylan Klebold listened to or even like Marilyn Manson who was almost universally blamed for the tragedy), teen suicides, etc. Heavy metal and its nihilistic songs almost take the total blame for such incidents. Never mind that they were perpetrated by people who were mentally ill and who would have committed the same acts regardless. But they might not have done if the moral guardians, who were so keen to pillory heavy metal, protested against inadequate mental health care and counselling for disturbed teenagers.

People, such as the incredibly un-illuminated Mr. Boyd, are of the general opinion that heavy metal is a simple music for simple people. Wrong, on so many levels. Listen to some heavy metal bands' lyrics. These songs are expertly crafted peons addressing issues as diverse as politics, sexuality, depression, domestic abuse, struggling against the odds, etc. The labour that goes into creating songs is immense. Add in the technical brilliance of the musicians; some of the greatest musicians ever to grace this planet have been heavy metal (or at least rock) musicians. They are so technically gifted it boggles the mind. It is not simple music.

And as for deriding fans of heavy metal as simple people (I think Mr. Boyd used tried to stereotype heavy metal fans as working in Burger King in his article, did he not?), I will also say that this is utter nonsense. I'm a huge heavy metal fan. I went to university. And while I was there, not a day went past that I did not see dozens of t-shirts or hoodies with heavy metal bands or logos on them. There were even out and out metal heads (in the full regalia) in the university. The ultimate haven of the learned class, universities, and they are full to the brim with heavy metal fans. Add in the large contingent of elder lemon fans (people who were teenagers in the 1980's) who are now family people but who still love their heavy metal. Are they all simpletons? Hardly. Mr. Boyd should check his facts more.

The musicians themselves often come up for some harsh criticism. Yes, it is hard to defend their actions sometimes. But the fact remains that in interviews and in person, most heavy metal musicians come across as intelligent, witty and passionate people. This is especially true of those who have been around for years (see: Lemmy, Hetfield, Steve Harris, Slash, Sixx, Coverdale, Iommi, Halford, Joe Elliot, Phil Collen, etc.). These guys are the old school of heavy metal and they are by no means the simpletons most people would like to believe they are. They care about their craft. And yes, back in the halcyon days of rock-star excess they behaved like a bunch of 5 year old in a toy shop. But they're older and wiser now, emphasis on the wiser part.

No other genre in the history of music has been so universally loathed and derided as heavy metal. People accuse heavy metal of being ignorant. I think they might want to consider who the truly ignorant people are.

Now why can't that be an article for the IT

porsche959

There are aspects and genres of metal that are up for satire.

But writing off an entire genre of music is just ignorant and proves what I've long suspected about Brian Boyd - that he is a rather shallow journalist.

nyarlothothep

Well most of the ticket journalists are shallow (I assume this appeared in the ticket aswell?), I don't put much stock in their articles. What I find a bit sad about this piece is that I thought the practice of expressing prejudiced views in the media against musical genres, of all things, had become extinct... backward as it was back in the day, the primitive aspect to such thinking had consigned it to the dustbin of history. But clearly this is not the case and that's what I find pitiable.

lord lucan

DazMarz summed it up perfectly so i'm not going to repeat it but i can safely say i'll never buy the IT again if that tripe is what passes for journalism these days in it.

I've spent years in my workplace and with friends trying to get them to see beyond the stereotypes and view metal as a serious genre of music. I've no doubt i'll get a few comments over the next few days about smelly metalheads and their reference being the pile of **** in the IT.:mad:

nyarlothothep

DazMarz wrote: »

Moronic journalist is moronic.

The problem with this article is not that it is poorly written, researched, executed and highly insulting. The problem lies in the fact that it will continue to enforce stereotypes about heavy metal in the mainstream. I like The Irish Times as a paper. It has one of the highest readerships in the country and it is regarded by many as the country's best national newspaper.

And herein lies the problem. Vast numbers of people will have read this article and will think that they are now "informed" about heavy metal as a genre. Why not watch a Sam Dunn documentary instead for a real look at heavy metal. Heavy metal and all its subgenres is sadly overlooked and maligned by the mainstream (or maybe is that a good thing).

It'd be harmless if it was just giving out about the look or the sound of heavy metal, but no. Heavy metal artists and their fans are painted almost universally as satanic, evil, maniacs who sing about death and violence and commit acts of violence. Utter bollocks, of course. But that is an image that has been painted.

It is useless "journalists" like the aforementioned Mr. Boyd who, going for a quick and easy-to-sell story, who will whip up a frenzy of moral outrage to rail against heavy metal from time to time. In the late-60's and 1970's, metal music was seen as evil. It came to a head in the 1980's with the PMRC and bands being called before Congress to defend their music and their way of life. Add to the fact that Judas Priest were sued by the families of two young men who committed suicide as they were blamed for it by inciting suicide through their music.

This is nothing new; people fear and loathe what they do not, cannot or will not understand. Heavy metal is no different. People fear their kids will be corrupted by listening to heavy metal (I would argue they and their views on life would be more corrupted by listening to vapid, sexist, talentless, idiotic and braindead modern music like hip-hop, R n B, and so on). People despise heavy metal for its loud riffs and solos and drum beats (little caring the pure and enormous amount of talent that kind of stuff takes; compare that to hip-hop where a few ill-fitting lyrics and a drum machine can make a whole album).

The fear and loathing reserved for heavy metal stems largely from isolated incidents in the past; church burnings and murders in Norway, the Columbine massacre (incidentally, neither Eric Harris nor Dylan Klebold listened to or even like Marilyn Manson who was almost universally blamed for the tragedy), teen suicides, etc. Heavy metal and its nihilistic songs almost take the total blame for such incidents. Never mind that they were perpetrated by people who were mentally ill and who would have committed the same acts regardless. But they might not have done if the moral guardians, who were so keen to pillory heavy metal, protested against inadequate mental health care and counselling for disturbed teenagers.

People, such as the incredibly un-illuminated Mr. Boyd, are of the general opinion that heavy metal is a simple music for simple people. Wrong, on so many levels. Listen to some heavy metal bands' lyrics. These songs are expertly crafted peons addressing issues as diverse as politics, sexuality, depression, domestic abuse, struggling against the odds, etc. The labour that goes into creating songs is immense. Add in the technical brilliance of the musicians; some of the greatest musicians ever to grace this planet have been heavy metal (or at least rock) musicians. They are so technically gifted it boggles the mind. It is not simple music.

And as for deriding fans of heavy metal as simple people (I think Mr. Boyd used tried to stereotype heavy metal fans as working in Burger King in his article, did he not?), I will also say that this is utter nonsense. I'm a huge heavy metal fan. I went to university. And while I was there, not a day went past that I did not see dozens of t-shirts or hoodies with heavy metal bands or logos on them. There were even out and out metal heads (in the full regalia) in the university. The ultimate haven of the learned class, universities, and they are full to the brim with heavy metal fans. Add in the large contingent of elder lemon fans (people who were teenagers in the 1980's) who are now family people but who still love their heavy metal. Are they all simpletons? Hardly. Mr. Boyd should check his facts more.

The musicians themselves often come up for some harsh criticism. Yes, it is hard to defend their actions sometimes. But the fact remains that in interviews and in person, most heavy metal musicians come across as intelligent, witty and passionate people. This is especially true of those who have been around for years (see: Lemmy, Hetfield, Steve Harris, Slash, Sixx, Coverdale, Iommi, Halford, Joe Elliot, Phil Collen, etc.). These guys are the old school of heavy metal and they are by no means the simpletons most people would like to believe they are. They care about their craft. And yes, back in the halcyon days of rock-star excess they behaved like a bunch of 5 year old in a toy shop. But they're older and wiser now, emphasis on the wiser part.

No other genre in the history of music has been so universally loathed and derided as heavy metal. People accuse heavy metal of being ignorant. I think they might want to consider who the truly ignorant people are.

Ok I'm no paragon of virtue with regards my slamming of indie rock in its current form, but seriously, we cant criticise one guy for writing off an entire genre when we do it ourselves to whatever genres we dont like. I get what you mean though, a lot of rap is crap nowadays and offensive but not in a good way, it's trashy. However I've heard that there are a lot of good rap artists that just aren't getting airtime in the mainstream and also the oldschool stuff was amazing (Ice T, Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash etc) and still holds up. Some of their lyrics border on a kind of poetry they have that much impact.

Rightwing

I quite liked that article, the bit about washing made me laugh, and the way he dismisses the class in 5 seconds is classic.

On a more serious note, a degree in metal ? Close down that institution that poses as a university and save the tax payers a few pound.

Angron

Rightwing wrote: »

I quite liked that article, the bit about washing made me laugh, and the way he dismisses the class in 5 seconds is classic.

On a more serious note, a degree in metal ? Close down that institution that poses as a university and save the tax payers a few pound.

The dismissal isn't "classic", he's simply very insulting to a subject he clearly has no idea about.

DazMarz

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Ok I'm no paragon of virtue with regards my slamming of indie rock in its current form, but seriously, we cant criticise one guy for writing off an entire genre when we do it ourselves to whatever genres we dont like. I get what you mean though, a lot of rap is crap nowadays and offensive but not in a good way, it's trashy. However I've heard that there are a lot of good rap artists that just aren't getting airtime in the mainstream and also the oldschool stuff was amazing (Ice T, Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash etc) and still holds up. Some of their lyrics border on a kind of poetry they have that much impact.

I get what you mean, I admit I did tar a lot with the one brush. But note that I stressed "modern" hip-hop. Ice T, Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash... these are not modern artists. They are hip-hop/rap classics from a generation ago.

I don't like nitpicking on someone, and I don't mean to nitpick on your post, but I can see where you're coming from.

My point was not so much to slam other genres or write off other genres. I was stating that one of the big sticks used to beat heavy metal is that "it will corrupt our kids". My argument is that more kids will be corrupted by other genres that are more accepted by people and they are seen as more inoffensive (despite being sexist, misogynistic, advocating violence and being just terrible music in general; note that these are features of the more modern breeds of popular mainstream music that children are more readily exposed to than heavy metal).

Fair point well made, though.

nyarlothothep

DazMarz wrote: »

I get what you mean, I admit I did tar a lot with the one brush. But note that I stressed "modern" hip-hop. Ice T, Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash... these are not modern artists. They are hip-hop/rap classics from a generation ago.

I don't like nitpicking on someone, and I don't mean to nitpick on your post, but I can see where you're coming from.

My point was not so much to slam other genres or write off other genres. I was stating that one of the big sticks used to beat heavy metal is that "it will corrupt our kids". My argument is that more kids will be corrupted by other genres that are more accepted by people and they are seen as more inoffensive (despite being sexist, misogynistic, advocating violence and being just terrible music in general; note that these are features of the more modern breeds of popular mainstream music that children are more readily exposed to than heavy metal).

Fair point well made, though.

Haha, I thought I was nitpicking your post! Yeah I agree, modern hip hop is terrible, it conveys the worst aspects of consumer culture and there is very little music in it.

christophicus

Saw some rage about this on Twitter and googled this Brian Boyd fella. The IT got a hit from me that they wouldn't normally...but they've also made it abundantly clear that they're no longer interested in well written, thought provoking, pieces; preferring to cut costs and go for tabloid journalists instead...'tis a shame...

Morf

Has Alan Averill made a long and largely humourless tirade about this yet?

Lithium93_

Simply put, journalists SHOULDN'T write about a subject if they have no knowledge of said subject... Though how this piece was ok'ed by an editor is beyond me

Dan_Solo

I can only assume from the standard of the IT article that there are no journalism courses in Ireland, nevermind heavy metal courses.

Ruudi_Mentari

Smelly rocker, haven't heard that since the techno invasion began back in 1990s here as metals sworn adversary which duly consumed most of our youth so a bit dated now, given metal was pretty much intimidated out of working class suburbs far as i can tell and is occupied by people with science degrees and the like now who tend to scrub up?!

I think smelly has changed hands, but thick in musical terms remains almost exclusively the domain of something else so I will take it for granted he is that sort of arse bandit and I'd like to read his views on the rave after this which is still far and away TOTP here and isn't really music at all; granted it features no musicianship at all but a soundscape/backdrop for desperadoes like himself to get his end away with relative ease because he looks like the sort and his jibes remind me of the musically illiterate scanger he reeks of tbh; amongst other things and I wouldn't him a rise!!! i already have oh well, but he is out of touch alright... or maybe he has, yknow, "good taste" or something but you'd expect someone with half a clue to at least acknowledge the musicianship, the ability; the musicality in metal that so many working class kids took upon themselves back in the day and helped put them on the right track?

But the guy is clearly a dipshìt, and I didn't need to look beyond his avatar to realise that and so I didnt! Horrible article I'm sure

poundhound

Do you remember the TV advert back in the day featuring Patsy Palmer (Bianca in Eastenders). I think it was for Biactol and it started with the words "My sisters a greaser" and showed Palmer air-guitaring and headbanging in her bedroom to some token metal track.

She then uses the product, complete makeover and gets the guy, bladdy bladdy blah.

Well that ad was pulled from TV over the sheer volumne of complaints from people oppossed to the stereo-typing of heavy metal fans as the great unwashed.

slavetothegrind

wouldn't waste time thinking about him or his article

i've just now become aware of it and could care less what the guy says

i bet if researched he has done the same to many other genres when caught short with deadline looming

Going back to the mid eighties i can think of a small handful of journalist pieces which were intelligently written and considered if not in favour of the genre

If anything we loved that about metal, how the establishment disliked us, made us feel like part of something.

Shows how mainstream metal has become that anyone reacts to this article at all.

As said already it only loses the paper readers anyway, cannot see an upside for them

Jaysus i just remembered that sunday world rag and their crusade against WASP.........

blass

Nea wrote: »

Here is an article to make the blood boil.This article has me fuming,the Irish Times actually wrote an insightful article last year on the Irish Metal scene which was great to see in a daily Irish paper. But this article has me speechless.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/we-don-t-need-no-high-cost-high-brow-heavy-metal-education-1.1394624

Yes, this article was mean spirited and one sided. Where is the objectivity you would expect from a 'QUALITY' newspaper. I'm guessing he has a chip on his shoulder. Maybe his folks made hm learn the Tin Whistle instead of guitar. Poor show.

Nea

slavetothegrind wrote: »

Jaysus i just remembered that sunday world rag and their crusade against WASP.........

I think they had a go at Megadeth as well but they went to town on WASP

Smelly mosher was a term thrown around when I was in secondary school 20 years ago and its sad to see that it has still stuck. We will always be outsiders and thats fine with me, I think it was just the ignorance and bigoted attitude in that article and the fact it was printed in the IT that was so shocking.

lord lucan

poundhound wrote: »

Do you remember the TV advert back in the day featuring Patsy Palmer (Bianca in Eastenders). I think it was for Biactol and it started with the words "My sisters a greaser" and showed Palmer air-guitaring and headbanging in her bedroom to some token metal track.

She then uses the product, complete makeover and gets the guy, bladdy bladdy blah.

Well that ad was pulled from TV over the sheer volumne of complaints from people oppossed to the stereo-typing of heavy metal fans as the great unwashed.

Here ya go! Still makes me cringe.