"Close account" button. Success or Failure?

LuckyLloyd

28064212 wrote: »

With the Close Account button:

1. User trolls
2. Clicks Close Account button
3. Opens new account
4. Trolls again

Without the Close Account button:

1. User trolls
2. Stops posting under that account
3. Opens new account
4. Trolls again

What's the difference? The close account button doesn't affect this behaviour even remotely.

One was bannable (certainly frowned upon), one isn't.

28064212

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

One was bannable (certainly frowned upon), one isn't.

Both are bannable, and lots of users have been banned for both

anncoates

I don't think it's such a big deal if people want to close an account and come back.

It's a little unfair to say it's always a weak thing to do as they can be doing it for any number of valid reasons.

Obviously, it's a bit much if people are constantly closing relatively new accounts or doing so because their old account has a bad reputation.

johnr1

Dav wrote: »

I'm extremely disappointed that we had to implement this as the idea that a Boards.ie account is "disposable" has crept in and we were always of the opinion that it should be something to be valued. I personally think that anyone who's too afraid to stand by their online identity and who will close their account after a couple of months because they once made a tit of themselves on one forum is a coward. I'm damn proud of the fact that my personal account says "Feb '98" beside Join Date. I've said some awful tripe in the years I've been here - didn't stop the company hiring me and I would never attempt to shy away from it nor would I be too proud to admit that I was wrong or have changed my mind. It's part of being a grown up

If I could thank you twice for this post then I would. This is my first and last boards account, and just like you, I posted some stupid sh1t on occasion. I also have a few infractions and a one month site ban (personal abuse by PM,- well warranted) behind me.

I think closing accounts is ruining what was/is a great site.

Sulla Felix

Dades wrote: »

Just use the report function as you would if it was a re-reg. Opening a new account after closing one doesn't absolve you of your past sins, and if there's a record of infractions these may still be taken into account.

No idea about the legals ins and outs, but how does that work. The old infractions were linked to an old account, and you're now associating them with a new one, whether by ip or whatever. Not being cheeky, but surely that's keeping information selectively when the whole point of the button is to stop keeping information?:o

Insect Overlord

You can't delete stuff remembered about old posters from mods' brains...

Karl Stein

johnr1 wrote: »

If I could thank you twice for this post then I would. This is my first and last boards account, and just like you, I posted some stupid sh1t on occasion. I also have a few infractions and a one month site ban (personal abuse by PM,- well warranted) behind me.

I think closing accounts is ruining what was/is a great site.

I recently closed my account. I did and said some stupid things on it and had my fair share of infractions and bans but trying to distance myself from them was not my motivation for closing my account. I'm pretty sure the mods would see through that fairly sharpish anyway and act accordingly.

It was my goddamned post count, and having it thrown in my face every so often, that was bugging me and there's no option to hide it. If there had been an option to hide it I would not have closed my account. So there are reasons people will close an account that aren't sneaky. I'd hazard a guess that others have closed and reopened their accounts for this very same reason.

Pawwed Rig

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

It was my goddamned post count, and having it thrown in my face every so often, that was bugging me and there's no option to hide it.

Why would your post count be an issue? In what context could it be thrown in your face? Genuine question

seamus

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Why would your post count be an issue? In what context could it be thrown in your face? Genuine question

I think he means that he's self-conscious about it, the fact that it's there is a constant reminder of how much of his time he has wasted so far and how much more he could have to show for his life if he'd not been farting about on boards.

I just don't let it get to me

MugMugs

It wasn't even than high tbh.

Pawwed Rig

seamus wrote: »

I think he means that he's self-conscious about it, the fact that it's there is a constant reminder of how much of his time he has wasted so far and how much more he could have to show for his life if he'd not been farting about on boards.

Oh ok. That is something that would have never crossed my mind tbh. I would have thought there are worse things you could be doing than conversing on the internet.

Seamus, 44.000 posts???? You could have done a doctorate in that time;)

Dades

Sulla Felix wrote: »

No idea about the legals ins and outs, but how does that work. The old infractions were linked to an old account, and you're now associating them with a new one, whether by ip or whatever. Not being cheeky, but surely that's keeping information selectively when the whole point of the button is to stop keeping information?:o

The point of the button is to have on record personal information (I believe). But of course your entire Boards history remains there for all to see. Infraction records and all.

To clarify, if someone closed an account and subsequently opens another, then usually there's no issue. It's only flagged when that user had a record and continues to cause trouble under a new account, rather than turn over a new leaf as it were.

seamus

Sulla Felix wrote: »

No idea about the legals ins and outs, but how does that work. The old infractions were linked to an old account, and you're now associating them with a new one, whether by ip or whatever. Not being cheeky, but surely that's keeping information selectively when the whole point of the button is to stop keeping information?:o

Afaik, an IP address is considered personal information only where it is recorded against an individual for the purposes of identifying them.

When the account is closed, the identifying information is scrambled. So while the IP address is still recorded against the posts, without the other information on the account that IP address alone cannot be used to identify an individual (especially since IP addresses are usually shared) and no longer constitutes "personal" information i.e. information about an individual. It now becomes information about a post.

That's to the best of my knowledge anyway. The thing is that data protection only goes as far as information which is actually recorded. Information which resides in the mind of the possessor or which is inferred through educated guesswork isn't really covered by the DPA. Which means that where an admin infers that Account B is a re-reg of closed Account Y because the IPs match as well as other things like posting style, etc, the DPA doesn't cover that because the link is not physically recorded anywhere.

There are also provisions under the DPA where a company may hold onto a person's information for as long as is reasonably necessary, even if the person requests that the information is deleted. This means that you cannot request that your mortgage company delete all of your personal information because complying with such a request would make it impossible for them to track your mortgage.

I do believe IP Addresses would be covered under this provision as holding onto this information is necessary for the day-to-day running of boards. Afaik there is a policy in place within boards to delete IP information after a set period of time, but I may be mistaken.

anncoates

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Why would your post count be an issue? In what context could it be thrown in your face? Genuine question

People actually do constantly bring up the fact that you have a large postcount in all types of arguments/debates as a way of belittling what you're saying or implying that you are siding with the powers that be, etc.

Karl Stein

I'd have no problem with my former infractions following me to this account FWIW. As I said, I'd rather have retained my old account. My post frequency had dropped and I'd toned down my 'style'. I was even toying with the idea of not cursing with this account but fucked that up pretty quick.

Bobeagleburger

Infractions should follow to new accounts. Not sure how big a headache it would be to implement.

Dades

That could never officially or automatically happen. Like with re-reg's, previous account holders with new accounts are identified manually for the most part.

Zaph

rarnes1 wrote: »

Infractions should follow to new accounts. Not sure how big a headache it would be to implement.

The problem there is identifying the new account. If someone with a load of infractions and bans closes their account, chances are they're not going to be too forthcoming about their new identity. Obviously if they are identified (and we have a pretty good success rate at identifying re-regs) their past behaviour is taken into account, especially if they have any outstanding bans that they may be circumventing by using their new account.

My name is URL

I know it's already been tipped upon, but if the main reason behind the idea of a 'Close Account' option existing is to satisfy data protection laws, then would it even make sense to link closed accounts to new ones? Can mods still look up IP histories etc of members who have closed their account? What's the point in a person being able to disassociate themselves with an account if the decision can be effectively made redundant at the behest of an individual volunteer?

It seems to me that the recent outpourings over closed accounts is due to the fact that accounts are now recognizable as being closed. Is there any real reason that the 'Closed Account' tag needs to be displayed under usernames? Why not just leave that space blank for everyone except mods and subscribers?

Insect Overlord

My name is URL wrote: »

Can mods still look up IP histories etc of members who have closed their account? What's the point in a person being able to disassociate themselves with an account if the decision can be effectively made redundant at the behest of an individual volunteer?

Mods don't have access to IP information.

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Mods don't have access to IP information.

You are....annoying.

Insect Overlord

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D wrote: »

You are....annoying.

You are... mercurial?

Sulla Felix

seamus wrote: »

Afaik, an IP address is considered personal information only where it is recorded against an individual for the purposes of identifying them.

When the account is closed, the identifying information is scrambled. So while the IP address is still recorded against the posts, without the other information on the account that IP address alone cannot be used to identify an individual (especially since IP addresses are usually shared) and no longer constitutes "personal" information i.e. information about an individual. It now becomes information about a post.

That's to the best of my knowledge anyway. The thing is that data protection only goes as far as information which is actually recorded. Information which resides in the mind of the possessor or which is inferred through educated guesswork isn't really covered by the DPA. Which means that where an admin infers that Account B is a re-reg of closed Account Y because the IPs match as well as other things like posting style, etc, the DPA doesn't cover that because the link is not physically recorded anywhere.

There are also provisions under the DPA where a company may hold onto a person's information for as long as is reasonably necessary, even if the person requests that the information is deleted. This means that you cannot request that your mortgage company delete all of your personal information because complying with such a request would make it impossible for them to track your mortgage.

I do believe IP Addresses would be covered under this provision as holding onto this information is necessary for the day-to-day running of boards. Afaik there is a policy in place within boards to delete IP information after a set period of time, but I may be mistaken.

Dades wrote: »

The point of the button is to have on record personal information (I believe). But of course your entire Boards history remains there for all to see. Infraction records and all.

To clarify, if someone closed an account and subsequently opens another, then usually there's no issue. It's only flagged when that user had a record and continues to cause trouble under a new account, rather than turn over a new leaf as it were.

Ok, I can see the difference now. Thanks for the explanations!

K-9

My name is URL wrote: »

It seems to me that the recent outpourings over closed accounts is due to the fact that accounts are now recognizable as being closed. Is there any real reason that the 'Closed Account' tag needs to be displayed under usernames? Why not just leave that space blank for everyone except mods and subscribers?

Loads of posters would be replying to accounts that had just closed, it's quite important to know if a poster is still active in a thread and on the site.

Earthhorse

Dav wrote: »

However, we had no choice about this. It was a case of implement this functionality or find ourselves on the wrong side of the Data Protection Commissioners (who I must state for the record are a genuinely fantastic sector of the Civil Service and who have always been helpful and supportive of Boards if we've needed their help).

We also had absolutely no choice about making it a "one way" operation - we cannot reverse them for a multitude of legal and functional reasons.

So the sad reality is that it's here to stay and won't be changing in it's functionality.

Are there any other websites you know of that have implemented this functionality?

RoundyMooney

Earthhorse wrote: »

Are there any other websites you know of that have implemented this functionality?

This, I think I may have alluded to it earlier in the discussion as well.

Playing devil's advocate for a sec, boards is the biggest one in this jurisdiction, and may well have come up on the commission's radar as a result, purely because of that.

Dubhlinner

Dav wrote: »

I'm extremely disappointed that we had to implement this as the idea that a Boards.ie account is "disposable" has crept in and we were always of the opinion that it should be something to be valued. I personally think that anyone who's too afraid to stand by their online identity and who will close their account after a couple of months because they once made a tit of themselves on one forum is a coward. I'm damn proud of the fact that my personal account says "Feb '98" beside Join Date. I've said some awful tripe in the years I've been here - didn't stop the company hiring me and I would never attempt to shy away from it nor would I be too proud to admit that I was wrong or have changed my mind. It's part of being a grown up

That's great for you but you have to remember it is just you you can speak for. Some people may have revealed things when they were of a certain age, or mental status, which they're no longer comfortable with, eg someone with bipolar disorder might post a lot of stuff because it seemed fine to do so in a euphoric state.

Its great that you're happy to stand by whatever you've posted, but what one puts in writing about themselves or their opinions can very easily be taken out of context and held against them.

Simple fact is that if boards doesn't allow posters to delete their own posts people are going to find ways to disassociate themselves with their usernames or stop posting.

Steve

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Obviously this is very heroic of you. However this is just you. Some people may have revealed things when they were of a certain age, or mental status, which they're no longer comfortable with, eg someone with bipolar disorder might post a lot of stuff because it seemed fine to do so in a euphoric state.

Its great that you're happy to stand by whatever you've posted, but what one puts in writing about themselves or their opinions can very easily be taken out of context and held against them.

Simple fact is that if boards doesn't allow posters to delete their own posts people are going to find ways to disassociate themselves with their usernames or stop posting.

If you take away accountability for your posts then boards may as well just become one of the millions of chatroom sites out there where you can say what you like (gangnam seagull style) and then be gone without ever having to take responsibility for it.

Bollocks to that.

If that ever happens here then it will be a great loss to our community and society in general.

K-9

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Obviously this is very heroic of you. However this is just you. Some people may have revealed things when they were of a certain age, or mental status, which they're no longer comfortable with, eg someone with bipolar disorder might post a lot of stuff because it seemed fine to do so in a euphoric state.

Its great that you're happy to stand by whatever you've posted, but what one puts in writing about themselves or their opinions can very easily be taken out of context and held against them.

Simple fact is that if boards doesn't allow posters to delete their own posts people are going to find ways to disassociate themselves with their usernames or stop posting.

I understand that, I've posted immature stuff in my time, AH and soccer prime examples, I just didn't feel the need to change an account, which is a pseudonym, though I've no doubt some people have probably identified me in the past. I'd be conscious enough of privacy, it doesn't bother me as much here, mainly because it's a warts and all profile.

It's annoying when somebody drags up a topic from a few years back which has happened. My opinion completely changed from a pretty harsh and one dimensional critic of public sector pay to a sympathiser with the cuts they've had to take. Being annoyed is a knee jerk reaction though, my opinion changed quite radically, nothing to be ashamed of there and it shows opinions do alter, contrary to what the detractors/trolls say.

Dubhlinner

Steve wrote: »

If you take away accountability for your posts then boards may as well just become one of the millions of chatroom sites out there where you can say what you like (gangnam seagull style) and then be gone without ever having to take responsibility for it.

Bollocks to that.

If that ever happens here then it will be a great loss to our community and society in general.

Its one way of looking at it. On the other hand if people can remove things they want to remove they might be less inclined to pull the plug and re-reg/leave

Regarding the seagull comment - how exactly are people made to take responsibility for things they post? They can just re-reg or not log on.