The Windy Road to Nowhere

pconn062

Great run RFR, you're getting faster and faster. Think we might have a new "star runner" for the Louth novice in October!

ThePiedPiper

pconn062 wrote: »

Great run RFR, you're getting faster and faster. Think we might have a new "star runner" for the Louth novice in October!

cheers p.. As long as its not the weekend of 13th, I'll be there.. Would love to push for top three in novice or inters, another race to take priority before all the mucky stuff starts

drquirky

Just catching up on your log RFR- we were close enough in time @ the Nat HM and are running marathons the same weekend in October- you're going really well right now-are you running the Frank Duffy 10?

ThePiedPiper

Not doing the 10 mile, heading to a wedding that day. Need to focus properly on marathon specific long runs, so don't mind missing out on it.. What marathon you doing this year, cologne is it?

Peckham

Great stuff. Are you doing the Monaghan 10 mile on Sunday?

(If "Keep er fit" appears on my Facebook timeline once more I may throw my phone at the wall!)

ThePiedPiper

Peckham wrote: »

Great stuff. Are you doing the Monaghan 10 mile on Sunday?

(If "Keep er fit" appears on my Facebook timeline once more I may throw my phone at the wall!)

Still not sure, won't know until Friday night if I've Sunday free. If I am able to, I'll probably come back up for the race alright. If I do the race, I'll probably add 7-8 miles warm up and down, as I'm a bit short of long runs I think.

Keep 'er fit is fairly headwrecking alright, don't know what genius came up with that!

nerraw1111

Great stuff on the 5 miler.

ThePiedPiper

Sunday 11th August: 10 miles in 1:17:50 (7:47 pace)

Easy paced recovery run over towards Rosslea, Co. Fermanagh, and back to Scotstown. I remember 8 years ago running this loop for the first time, and thinking it was a massive distance. I'd guess the pace back then was probably a bit slower too. Had half planned on a 20 miler on Sunday, but the chance of a full hospitality day out in Croke Park for the hurling ended those plans. It would've been too much on the legs anyway after racing the previous day.

Monday 12th August: 7.5 miles in 52:30 (6:59 pace)

No chance of a long run yesterday, had the hangover from hell after Sunday. Haven't had many big days of beer for a long time, and suffered big time. Got out at about 9 in the evening, kept it easy for the first mile, then knocked out 5 miles in the 6:40-6:50 range. Felt very comfortable.

Not sure how to structure this week at all. I know I should be hitting the long 20 mile runs now, and with marathon paced miles thrown in. I think I should forget about the 10 mile race on Sunday, and do a proper long run with marathon paced miles in it. The shorter races have been great for building speed, but need to focus properly on the marathon now. Might just stay on the treadmill this evening, and do a 12-14 mile run tomorrow with MP miles in it. This weekend MUST include 20 miles.

blockic

RunForestRun wrote: »

Not sure how to structure this week at all. I know I should be hitting the long 20 mile runs now, and with marathon paced miles thrown in. I think I should forget about the 10 mile race on Sunday, and do a proper long run with marathon paced miles in it. The shorter races have been great for building speed, but need to focus properly on the marathon now. Might just stay on the treadmill this evening, and do a 12-14 mile run tomorrow with MP miles in it. This weekend MUST include 20 miles.

Good assessment. Could do the race at MP and add 10 before or after?

I've 20 with 9PMP lined up for this week.

ThePiedPiper

Yeah, I'd considered that for the 10 mile race, but I don't have the restraint required to sit back in a race. I'd end up racing it at full tilt, and taking another few days to recover from it, so better to avoid it altogether. I'll make the 20 miles happen on Saturday or Sunday for sure, the 6:30 MP should feel relatively comfortable after the racing efforts of the past couple of weeks.

Peckham

Or alternatively - race it, and then do 20 miles on Monday on tired legs. That's my plan.

ThePiedPiper

No, I don't think so Peckham. If I'm in Monaghan, I'll be cheering on Mrs RFR in the 5 mile race, and yourself in the 10 mile. 3 races in 3 weekends would be a bit too much disruption for marathon training, even though I'd love to run a good time for 10 miles. I'll just have to content myself with the sub-60 split I ran in the half.

drquirky

RunForestRun wrote: »

Not doing the 10 mile, heading to a wedding that day. Need to focus properly on marathon specific long runs, so don't mind missing out on it.. What marathon you doing this year, cologne is it?

Na Budapest- which if I remember you had some good advise on!

ThePiedPiper

Oh yeah, that's right.. Budapest was beautiful, really enjoyed the city and the race.. Just watch out for those relay and 30k runners in the first half, most seemed completely oblivious to normal racing etiquette..

nerraw1111

That your first time running sub 60?

ThePiedPiper

nerraw1111 wrote: »

That your first time running sub 60?

Yeah, I've only ever raced 10 miles once, ran 62:xx a couple of years ago. I've split faster than that in 3 half marathons, and split the last 10 miles of the Nationals this year under 60. It'd be nice to do it in a 10 mile race, but have to keep the eye on the big prize in October.

ThePiedPiper

Tuesday 13th August: 5 miles in 38:xx (7:50? pace)

The treadmill has a weird habit of trying to pick up my pulse from time to time, and getting stuck on that data field. So, not entirely sure how far I ran or what pace, but easy enough effort anyway. Caught in three minds between what to do tomorrow. The choices:
1. A track session in Drogheda, where I would do either 10x800 or 5x1600
2. A tempo/MP/unstructured social miles with Team Carrie
3. A completely structured 14 mile run with 12 MP miles.

Decisions, decisions. I'm off to sleep on it.

ThePiedPiper

Wednesday 14th August: 16 miles with 12 miles PMP in 1:46 (6:39 avg pace)

Best marathon-specific session I've done during this training cycle by a country mile. After a bit of a break in the showers, headed on out in fairly hot and humid conditions. Decided on the Drogheda-Termonfeckin loop that is largely flat, and hoped that I'd be able to handle the last 2-3 PMP miles going uphill.Took it handy enough on the first mile warm-up, gradually dropping the pace down to sub-7.

Miles 2-3 were downhill, and PMP was very easy here, nearly having to hold myself back. On through Drogheda, I must've gotton a bit excited, speeding up to 6:17 pace for some reason. Heading out past the Boyne estuary, the main issues for dealing with were the bloody stink coming from the port and a couple of pi$$ed off truckers who clearly didn't like the idea of having to slow down for me. Anyway, pace was still comfortable along these sections, comfortably under 6:30.

Around about Baltray, the road starts heading uphill as it winds back towards Termonfeckin, very gradual uphill, but enough to make MP a bit more of an effort. Out of Termonfeckin, its pretty much uphill to my house for 5 miles, 3 of which I was still planning on running at PMP. Definitely working harder, but kept the pace consistent right through.

So, managed the planned 12 PMP miles at probably 8 seconds per mile faster than goal pace. The warmup/down miles were all around about 7:30 pace, so all in all a very good session.
Splits for the PMP miles were as follows:
6:24 / 6:24 / 6:27 / 6:17 / 6:21 / 6:25 / 6:21 / 6:20 / 6:22 / 6:18 / 6:19 / 6:21

Peckham

Great run. You smashed a key session. Avg PMP looks to be close enough to 6:20.

ThePiedPiper

Cheers Peckham. I've sort of learnt the hard way over the years that to hit a marathon target, you need to be in better shape than said target. Both times I ran 2:58, I was in 2:55 shape, so it just leaves some room for error. At the start of this cycle, I was thinking I'd train for 2:50 and hope to run under 2:55. I suppose as 2:50 gets closer to being a realistic possibility, I'm going to put myself in the best possible shape for a crack at it. Today went well anyway, important session as you say.

blockic

RunForestRun wrote: »

Splits for the PMP miles were as follows:
6:24 / 6:24 / 6:27 / 6:17 / 6:21 / 6:25 / 6:21 / 6:20 / 6:22 / 6:18 / 6:19 / 6:21

Savage, you really are getting into 5th gear now. Long may it last! 1:18 minimum in athlone!

Gavlor

That's a serious session, did you keep the pmp constant with no breaks?

ThePiedPiper

blockic wrote: »

Savage, you really are getting into 5th gear now. Long may it last! 1:18 minimum in athlone!

Ah, we'll see. If I get in under 1:19, I'll be delighted, and take all the abuse for sandbagging that can be thrown at me. I still think that 1:19 would be a great time off no taper, and in amongst heavy marathon training, I'll not get hung up on it anyway. I felt a bit apprehensive heading off on this one today, but cruised along nicely, with just the uphill last 3 PMP miles being hard work.

Gavlor wrote: »

That's a serious session, did you keep the pmp constant with no breaks?

Yeah, no breaks at all. I don't really believe too strongly in splitting up PMP or tempo sessions. There's no easy miles in the middle of the 26 for recovering, so I think that should be replicated as closely as possible in training. That's my theory anyway, but I know other people would have different views on it. I'd be the same with mile or half mile repeats, I'd always have active recoveries of a couple of minutes easy running, instead of stopping completely.

ThePiedPiper

Thursday 15th August: 4 miles in 29:30 (7:15 pace)

Handy enough sociable run with one of the lads from the club. Nice company, but rotten weather; wind, rain driving into us. Ah well, 3 course steak dinner down the local steakhouse sorted me out.

Friday 16th August: 2 miles in 15:05 (7:33 pace)

Just a very quick run as I was tight for time. This was a lovely one but, on the Derry City walls. Great views from up here, did a couple of loops around the city. Its around a mile in total around the walls from one end to the other. A few steep climbs and steps to negotiate enroute.

Saturday 17th August: 20 miles in 2:25 (7:16 avg pace)

Decided on a route out the Innisowen peninsula for this one. Wasn't sure what it'd be like in terms of hills, traffic, etc. but it worked out alright. The first couple of miles were a bit of a slog with a couple of long and steep climbs. There were a couple of signs for the Inisowen cycleway, but I ended up running down into a Hospice! Back up onto the road then so! Was happy enough to run slowly anyway for the first three miles, which were all in the 7:50s.

In fairness, there was a good decent footpath practically the whole way out to Muff, and the pace was coming along nicely, with these few miles up until Mile 9 mostly in the 7:20s. From mile 10, I decided I wanted to move on a bit, but it was getting fairly windy and raining at this stage, so not ideal really. Decided that MP might be a bit of a stretch so just ran by feel.
The splits for Mile 10-18 were 7:03 / 6:50 / 6:43 / 6:40 / 6:48 / 6:30 / 6:39 / 6:35 / 6:45. Felt very comfortable along these, just working a bit on the hillier sections.

Back into Derry and was at around about 18 miles. Ran a couple of very hilly miles around the Bogside in 8:xx pace to warm down. Decent runout with 8 mile just a bit slower than MP, and great to get the first 20 miler for a good while done at a fairly comfortable effort level.

ThePiedPiper

Sunday 18th August: 6 miles in 47:20 (7:53 pace)

Legs felt very heavy and full of knots for this run. Usually a run of this length and speed loosens me up completely, but wasn't really happening.

Monday 19th August: 4 miles in 29:35 (7:23 pace)

A little bit more comfortable for this one, but was still feeling Saturday's long run. Did this with a friend whose heading off to live in England, so was as much a social run as one with a real solid objective.

Tuesday 20th August: 5 miles in 38:45 (7:45 pace)

My usual Tuesday easy run on the treadmill.

Wednesday 21st August: 3 miles in 19:30 (7:30 pace)

I was on a day trip with the kids over to family in the West, so was after 9 by the time we got back and organised, and with 6 hours of driving, and a long day in general, didn't think a tempo or Yasso in the dark would be the trick, so decided on an easy run on the treadmill. Did it as a bit of a progressive run to test out the quad which has been feeling a bit iffy since the weekend. Felt fine, increasing the pace up to 14.5 km/h. I don't know about others, but MP always feels like a stretch on a treadmill, the lack of wind cooling for me is greater than the resistance. Anyway, that's neither here nor there.

Bloody amazing week of running for me so far! In hindsight, the last 2 'recovery' miles of the 20 miler on Saturday were a balls. The hills in Derry are ridiculously steep, and running up and down that sort of gradient is not remotely beneficial after 18 miles of running at decent pace. I probably did some small bit of muscle damage that has taken a few days to get ironed out. I'm happy enough that I've done enough easy recovery miles over the past few days to sort it out. Bombing out a session would've been stupid and done more damage, but seem to be fine now, so will possibly give the Yasso session its seasonal debut. I've a wedding tomorrow, that could potentially run into Saturday, so the long run will wait until Sunday.

Peckham

I'll see your 12 miles of running this week and match it with my 8 miles!

Similar situation here, calves were shot after the 10 mile race and it has taken a few days of very little running and lots of painful dry needling. Back on track now, so hopefully out for a 10 miler this evening and 20 tomorrow.

pconn062

Jaysus, trips to Derry, trips to the west and weddings, you have a more hectic social life that the Royal family!

BTW, the novice is on the 6th of October, put it in your diary!!

pconn062

I'm organising a 5,000m time trial at the track on Friday week, the 30th if you're free. If you don't feel like racing it but can still make it I might need a few pacers if you're interested, maybe sub 19 pacer.

ThePiedPiper

pconn062 wrote: »

I'm organising a 5,000m time trial at the track on Friday week, the 30th if you're free. If you don't feel like racing it but can still make it I might need a few pacers if you're interested, maybe sub 19 pacer.

I'd be happier with pacing sub-19 than racing, so that would be a bit of craic for sure. Not 100% yet, need to check if there's anything else on, but if I'm free, that sounds like good fun.

As for the Novice X-country, I'll more than likely go, but if there are any niggles, I'd have to stay away. It'd be a good blow-out 8 days out from the marathon if the body's in good shape, certainly couldn't do too much harm. Is the Novice 6k or 8k?

ThePiedPiper

Thursday 22nd August: Yasso 800s Session

This is the first time I've done this session this year. The idea of the session is entirely based on your marathon goal time. So, the marathon goal is 2 hrs, 50 mins. Therefore, the session is 10 x 1/2 mile in 2 mins 50 seconds each. I've used it before for sub-3 targets, and think its a decent session. Was sort of expecting that I'd fade a bit after about 8 of the repeats, but headed off in lovely warm sunshine to give it a bash anyway.

After a few days of easy recovery running, I was fairly sure that the little niggles were all gone, and after an easy mile or so, hit the button on the watch to start the session. The first one was always going to be easy, with a nice bit of a downhill. However, finding a reasonably flat bit of road for the 9/10 miles required to do this session up my way is impossible, so it was always going to be a case of rolling hills for the majority of this. Rep 2 and 4 were nasty little ba$t@rds with very steep inclines. I had to work bloody hard to keep these under 2:55, and was worried I'd burn myself out for the later ones. I managed to find a decent enough rhythm for a few of them after that, but definitely must have been working hard enough, because I totally lost count of how many I'd done, with my watch beeping at me the only way of knowing what I was doing.

After Rep 9 (I thought), I knew that if I did my 90 second recovery down the hill to the Valley Inn, I'd have a major climb back up the way for Rep 10, so turned on my heel to do that recovery back the way I came, in order to have some chance on Rep 10. Happy as a pig in $hite, hitting the supposed Rep 10 under pace. Bo!!ocks, fecking watch starts counting me down again for another one just as I'm facing into a steady hill. I couldn't bring myself to cheat by turning around and going downhill for Dunleer so sucked it up and battered out the last one, 2:54 for that one too. Crawled back the 2 miles to the house in 8:1x pace.

Times for the reps were as follows: 2:49 / 2:54 / 2:50 / 2:54 / 2:52 / 2:49 / 2:51 / 2:50 / 2:49 / 2:54

Delighted to have gotten that fairly tough session out of the way. When I was training for sub-3s, the first couple of times I'd do that session for 3:00 half miles, I always found it difficult to finish up the last 2 repeats, so at a faster pace today, it felt great to nearly hit all the splits I wanted. The route is a mess, I seemed to be doing nearly all the 90 second active recoveries going downhill.

Likely easy running tomorrow and Saturday, then a decent 20/21 miler on Sunday with PMP miles, gels, drinks, the whole shooting gallery. I've done nearly all long runs so far with no drinks or gels in order to prepare my body for running in a dehydrated energy-depleted state. Should be easier to do the PMP miles with the addition of gels and hydration.