Season 3: Episode 8 * Have NOT read the books*MOD NOTE POST #1

Mickeroo

lynski wrote: »

I dont think that that tree and a weirwood are the same thing, i might be wrong, but the weirwood in winterfell did not have a face? they are big red-leaved trees. that is a different thing all together. I am wrong. it is one

They're the same thing. You can even see the face on Winterfell's one in the opening credits.

edit: sorry, just saw your ninja edit!

lynski

Dempsey wrote: »

Dropped the Dragger, what an idiot!!

thought he had a few though?

DL Saint

lynski wrote: »

thought he had a few though?

As far as I can remember he took one as did his fellow nights watchers. Fairly sure he only shows one of them to Gilly in that scene in the woods...

Rosy Posy

Degag wrote: »

Think this Dario guy is from the same place as Ja'qen Hagar and Syrio Forel - Braavos .

I thought the sallow one with the long black hair was the Braavosi?

Rosy Posy

I forgot to mention the excellent scene between Margery and Cersei. Cersei is an eightyfour horsepower b!tch!! It was quite amusing to see Margery's silver tounge getting shot down. She will be the thorn in the Tyrells side alright. What was funny about her anecdote about the Casterleys was that (from the interactive map on the HBO site)

Spoiler

the Casterleys were actually the same family as the Lannisters until Lann the clever, the first Lannister, tricked them out of Casterley Rock- so the Lannisters achieved their current status by the same kind of deviousness and plotting that the Tyrells now employ. On one hand Cersei is saying 'don't fcuk with the Lannisters or you'll be smitten' but her story equally shows that there is opportunity for the Tyrells to advance themselves by cunning, and that the Lannisters have no more moral right to wealth and power than them.

pixelburp

A strong episode, and I think the fact it had a tighter focus & reduced cast wasn't coincidental. The show chugs along much better when the episode follows one or two of the threads & not all of them at once. I don't care how cranky it'd make the book readers (and it seems like they're openly milling around these threads now?) but the show needs a cull!

One advantage though of a reduced cast is that it gives more opportunity for the better characters to shine - the return of Davos was welcome, he deserves much more than to be shackled to the otherwise dour Stannis, and I loved Olenna's hilarious attempt to work out the now-confused family tree that existed between the Lannisters & Tyrells. Given a choice between Diana Rigg enjoying herself & watching Theon getting tortured or Bran's camping in the woods, I know which one I'd pick.

Not sure how I felt about Tyrion mind you, he doesn't come out the best in this episode. Leaving aside the fact he nearly gets himself & Sansa killed with his (admittedly funny) outburst towards Joffrey - who btw seems to get more ridiculously OTT by the episode - Tyrion spent too much of the episode wallowing in self-pity; given he & Varys were some of the few people looking out for Sansa, it seemed passing strange he then made no attempt to calm her, or make her feel better about this scenario. Instead he just reminded her how awful it all was & spent his time drinking.

And the whole Sansa thread underpinned a strangely explicit reference to rape throughout the entire episode. nearly every storyline had an overt reference to rape, or at the very least the degradation and/or nonexistent status of women: the Hound spoke about Arya being raped if she stayed alone in the woods; that moronic mercenary captains kept rabbiting on about raping Danaerys (thus sealing his fate); Joffrey broke out the charm in threatening to rape Sansa & arguably even Gendry found himself to be manipulated into sex, even if it seemed broadly consensual. The show has no problem being fairly explicit at the best of times, but this constant referencing seemed fairly heavy-handed. We get it GoT, being a woman sucks in this world.

And on the subject of Lannisters, Tywin's previous comment about Cersei not being as smart as she thinks she is seems to be coming home to roost: she behaved in a fairly stupid, unsubtle manner, effectively making an enemy of the two Tyrell children out of foolish impatience. She has also clearly lost any remaining control of Joffrey so she may want to rethink her strategy.

One thing that did confuse me though, and was trying to think back on series 2: how was it Stannis cursed Papa Greyjoy? I had been operating under the assumption that the Iron Islanders were a problem for the Starks alone, yet apparently Stannis deemed them worth of a curse? I wasn't even aware he knew of the Greyjoys.

December2012

Because Stannis is king of the entire realm anybody In uprising is a usurper.

Kirby

pixelburp wrote: »

We get it GoT, being a woman sucks in this world.

Does it though? Sure, it wouldn't be nice to be a female peasant but then....it wouldn't be nice to be a male peasant either! Lets examine your claim that being a woman is horrible in this story.

Observe.......

King Robert is dead, but his wife is alive.
Ned Stark is dead, but his wife is alive.
Khal Drogo is dead, but his wife is alive.
Theon Greyjoy is being tortured, but his sister is fine.
Bran was paralyzed, both his sisters are fine.
Jamie lost his hand, Brienne kept hers.
Tyrion's face was mangled, his sisters face is fine.

I'm sure the list could be much longer if some thought was put into it. When it comes to the nobles and highborn, which most of our characters are, it seems its much better to be a woman.

It would appear that in the game of thrones you either win....or you die.....unless you are a woman!

pixelburp

Kirby wrote: »

Does it though? Sure, it wouldn't be nice to be a female peasant but then....it wouldn't be nice to be a male peasant either! Lets examine your claim that being a woman is horrible in this story.

Observe.......

King Robert is dead, but his wife is alive.
Ned Stark is dead, but his wife is alive.
Khal Drogo is dead, but his wife is alive.
Theon Greyjoy is being tortured, but his sister is fine.
Bran was paralyzed, both his sisters are fine.
Jamie lost his hand, Brienne kept hers.
Tyrion's face was mangled, his sisters face is fine.

I'm sure the list could be much longer if some thought was put into it. When it comes to the nobles and highborn, which most of our characters are, it seems its much better to be a woman.

It would appear that in the game of thrones you either win....or you die.....unless you are a woman!

I think that's an oversimplification; it's not just a question of who lives & dies, clearly in this world women are objectified to a horrendous degree, where basically your only options are to either trade sex for money, or to sit around and wait for a man to impregnate you. And even if you're highborn, you still apparently have the constant threat a man may simply come along and violate you anyway - or in the case of Roz, you get turned into target practice. Even Brienne came close to meeting that fate were it not for a change of heart from Jamie. The phrase "A fate worse than death" springs to mind here.

And the gilded cage that is a highborn woman's life is made clear by Sansa & Margaery's conversation last week where the latter tried to impart her knowledge to Sansa; it's all about lying on your back and thinking of Winterfell. Cersei's about the only one who seems to have actively tried to avoid this life, although even she is defined by the unhealthy relationship with her brother.

Gilly (I think her name is?) is the ultimate expression of all this, as her only role in life was to sire a daughter for her own father, otherwise living in daily terror & misery. God knows how many sons she had to lose before Sam came along. You also look to Stannis' wife & daughter; both are locked away, one having gone mad surrounded by stillborns in jars (ick), the other hidden because of disfigurement, presumably because she's useless now as a potential mother to heirs.

Danaerys is the exception that proves the rule here, because whilst she bucks the trend by being in power, proactive and arguably the best / most compassionate leader in Westeros, nearly everyone she meets emphasizes how repugnant it is that they are dealing with a woman and how she should instead be on her back pleasuring them.

In GoT, if you're lucky you get to live in a gilded cage, popping sprogs when your hubbie is feeling frisky; otherwise you live with the perpetual threat of rape and/or death. I just think this point is crassly overemphasized sometimes. I look to something like HBO's Rome, a similar show with an ensemble cast, set in a equally alien environment of past times (yes, GoT is fantasy, but its inspiration is clearly medieval / feudal Europe). Even though set in a time when women were literally objects in the eyes of the law, Rome didn't feel the need to constantly emphasize how degraded women were.

Hyzepher

For me. this episode gave a lot away in terms of what we might see over the next few episodes and maybe next year. It seemed to try and set up all the major story lines for what is to come - even the ones that weren't directly referenced on screen.

What I find interesting is the comparison between all the different going-ons and the focus they have.

In Kings Landing everyone is focused on the politics of positioning themselves for what is to come - as if cunning, untruths and alliances were the weapons of war. The tension within both the great families is not strained more than ever and something has to give. Joffery is one sudden act away from starting an internal war and with Tyrion putting caution to the wind it may happen sooner rather than later.

Tyrion is also becoming more and more disjointed from his own family. i wouldn't be surprised to see him defend Sansa against his own family - maybe Joffery - and find himself at the wrong end of a beheading.

In the North Sam showed us a glimpse of hope. A method of dealing with the Others (etc) if and when they start to roam South. The focus in the North is one of fear and simple survival. Even the Wildlings will find that they need to put aside their past if they are to survive.

Stannis and Danaerys are the real threats outside what is north of the wall. She has shown herself to be resourceful and clever and seems to have a spell over men with her beauty. It's no mistake that the success she had with the 2nd sons (or whoever) was done without the dragons - albeit due to her beauty and somewhat outside her direct control. Her army are growing and completely loyal - a complete contrast to both the armies of the North and South. Way back in the first few episode of season 1 Robert commented on the potential she has - although dismissed by Ed as paranoia or simple blind revenge, Robert seems to have at least identified the real threat.

Stannis - although without an army now - has something more powerful, Magic. The scene with the leeches was for me hugely significant and the curse/spell but on those 3 should not be taken lightly. At that point I would not have deemed it far fetched if all three suddenly collapsed dead. We have already seen the power of the King's blood and should expect the same soon.

Although Robb was absent from the episode you got a feeling that the wedding is going to be interesting. The spell from Stannis and the brief comment from the Hound (or was it the mountain?) seems to have this event as a significant one.

I find it interesting that with all of these distractions going on, everyone has time to take a break from the war and go about their normal business. No one is taking advantage of it.

KerranJast

Hyzepher wrote: »

Stannis - although without an army now - has something more powerful, Magic. The scene with the leeches was for me hugely significant and the curse/spell but on those 3 should not be taken lightly. At that point I would not have deemed it far fetched if all three suddenly collapsed dead. We have already seen the power of the King's blood and should expect the same soon.

I spent the whole episode after that scene in dread. I was full sure Joffrey was going to burst into flame or something at the wedding

He's an evil little **** but I found myself actually feeling sympathy for Cersei of all people. The one thing she's shown above all else is her love for her kids and if something nasty happens to Joffs then I hate to think of her reaction.

K_user

Where to start?

There were too many interesting scenes, fantastic acting, plot lines and twists for easy analysis.

First off, this episode was far more enjoyable than the last two. Like others have pointed out, this was mainly because they took their time with scenes, rather than jumping quickly from plot to plot.

Poor Sansa. Is there any other character so helpless as this girl? She is a total pawn. Helpless. You can’t help but feel sorry for her.

And you have to give the actor playing Joffrey full credit, he just gets more hateful every time he’s on screen. I found it funny that even in his threat to rape Sana, he needed two gold-cloaks to make it real. Can anyone imagine his fathers, King Robert, or the Kingslayer, needing two gold-cloaks to make a threat?

Tyrion, I know that his moral compass is far more complicated than what the series can show. But his character just keeps getting better. Last season he slapped Joffrey right in the face, but in this episode, his c*ck comment, right in front of everyone, was pure brilliance. As was his tale, as he left the room, of once throwing up during sex. As a character, and an actor, he steals the show.

Tywin, who would mess with that man? A single glance was enough to silence the crowd.

Cersei, like her father and Tyrion, just doesn’t miss a beat. Her dismissal of Margaery was perfect.

Loving the development of Dany this season. You know that things can’t keep going her way, but for the moment she is really stepping up to the role of “Khaleesi”. Years of bashing under her brother has hardened her to all the vile things men can say.

I was surprised at the naked scene though. The only way I can understand it is in context of the situation. Dany was once a pawn, like Sansa is now. Her nakedness was sold, she was an object of desire, for others to use. Now though, she has men bringing her heads in a bag. She is still desired, but it is on her terms. Where she was once vulnerable. She is now powerful.

Penn

Why was Balon Greyjoy mentioned alongside Joffrey and Robb when Stannis was throwing the leeches into the fire? I thought the Greyjoys stayed out of the whole war. Did Greyjoy say he was King of the Iron Islands or something?

podgemonster

Penn wrote: »

Why was Balon Greyjoy mentioned alongside Joffrey and Robb when Stannis was throwing the leeches into the fire? I thought the Greyjoys stayed out of the whole war. Did Greyjoy say he was King of the Iron Islands or something?

He did (Season 2), he's pretty much defying the realm like he did last time (got his arse handed to him): calling independance and raiding the shorelines.

It's the War of the 5 Kings: Joff, Stan, Rob, Renly (RIP) and Balon

keps

There is a great 3way blog here on ' the atlantic'

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/05/-i-game-of-thrones-i-finally-takes-some-mercy-on-its-viewers/275999/

oxygen

I'm surprised people liked this episode so much. I thought it was a slow one myself, I liked it, but definitely slow, and possibly a little bit fillerish.

I understand people wanted a break from the Theon story, and IMO the sooner that story wraps up the better. But very little happened here... a wedding we knew was coming, a white walker attack, one scene of Ayra and the Hound, some vague magic, and the beheading of two characters we had just met.

I hope the last two episodes are crackers

krudler

podgemonster wrote: »

He did (Season 2), he's pretty much defying the realm like he did last time (got his arse handed to him): calling independance and raiding the shorelines.

It's the War of the 5 Kings: Joff, Stan, Rob, Renly (RIP) and Balon

The war has kinda taken a backseat this season. last season it was all building to the invasion of Kings Landing and everything was falling into place, this season it hasnt been the focus so much. Stannis is off licking his wounds, Balon hasnt even been in this season, Robb spends most of his time in tents with the missus and Joffrey is..well Joffrey.

Hyzepher

oxygen_temp wrote: »

I'm surprised people liked this episode so much. I thought it was a slow one myself, I liked it, but definitely slow, and possibly a little bit fillerish.

I understand people wanted a break from the Theon story, and IMO the sooner that story wraps up the better. But very little happened here... a wedding we knew was coming, a white walker attack, one scene of Ayra and the Hound, some vague magic, and the beheading of two characters we had just met.

I hope the last two episodes are crackers

I suggest you go back and re-watch the episode and this time have a think about why things are happening, sometimes the simplest thing seems to have the biggest impact

Degag

Something in the back of my mind tells me Sam has another one or two of those daggers. Hope he does anyway. Would be extremely foolish to lose it otherwise.

Lemlin

Dany's story continues to go from strength to strength. I was a bit disappointed though by how easily that gent was able to sneak into her tent. Has nobody learned anything from poor Renly?

At this stage, its about time Ser Barristan got to kick his some ass before he retires. When Dany said to him kill that one first, I was thinking he was finally going to unleash a can of whoop ass.

The best part of the episode was no Robb. He should of took Sam with him though. I find that storyline hugely boring.

Kirby

Lemlin wrote: »

The best part of the episode was no Robb. He should of took Sam with him though. I find that storyline hugely boring.

Yeah. Frost zombies attacking and being killed by ancient daggers, armies of crow's attacking you....it's all so boring and humdrum! Don't know about you, but that happens atleast three times a week to me. Maybe even four times!

Bacchus

Great episode. Not that I thought that last 2 episodes were poor, but this was a step up and things are looking good for the last 2 episodes.

For me, a big part of it was Tyrion being back to his best. The whole wedding feast scene was fantastic, from his drunkeness, to the c*ck joke, his reaction when he realised he went too far and finally, his rambling while leaving were great. Loved that story of puking during sex... "come, I'll tell you more to put you in the mood"

Infact, the scenes in Kings Landing were the strongest they have been since Season 2. All those tip toeing politics coming to a head with the Lanister kids clearly not happy with the situation. Cersei had a nice put down on Margery. Jeoffrey reminded us all again why we hate him so much. That moment when he took the stool from the alter was heartless and shows just how much he enjoys tormenting people.

The Dany story was strong again. Nice to see that she doesn't flaunt the dragons to intimidate all her "guests". The 3 mercenaries were interesting to watch. I love when the show shows you glimpses of a world outside the main characters and these guys sat right into that world with ease. Lots more "Villa Morgulus" (sp?) popping up around the place The attention to detail to these small things lift the show up a level (for me anyway). I can see her season ending liberating this city as her first real conquest (or some twist in her attempt to do so).

The best scenes though were with Sam up in the north. That was so well done with the crows. As they were in the shack, you could hear the noise slowly building outside and then that moment when they fell silent and you hear the White Walker in the forest... brilliant tension. Also, great to have the theories regarding the dragon glass (is that what he called it?) confirmed. It is a weapon against the White Walkers. I'm guessing as the story gets bigger and bigger over the seasons it's going to be dragons vs White Walkers.

allybhoy

oxygen_temp wrote: »

I'm surprised people liked this episode so much. I thought it was a slow one myself, I liked it, but definitely slow, and possibly a little bit fillerish.

I understand people wanted a break from the Theon story, and IMO the sooner that story wraps up the better. But very little happened here... a wedding we knew was coming, a white walker attack, one scene of Ayra and the Hound, some vague magic, and the beheading of two characters we had just met.

I hope the last two episodes are crackers

Kind of agree with this. It was a much better episode compared to the last two but there are only 2 left and there are still a lot of eggs in the air that need to be acknowledged or resolved, Greyjoy is a good example and that needs to be wrapped up sharpish as its just dragging on, he is held captive and tortured, then escapes then he doesnt escape and is tortured more etc etc.

There are also too many people just wandering the realm the last few episodes with no sign of conclusion or story progression. Bran needs to get whereever he is going, Kingslayer should be at Kings Landing, Sam needs to get to the wall, Arya needs to be reunited with her family, littlefinger is also off sailing away somewere and Rob and the wildlings need to "attack" the crows. Thats a lot to do in 2 episodes especially when you add in the storyline of Whitewalkers\ Dany \ Rob \ Stannis etc.

I have every faith in the directors that they will set everything up nicely for next season, but when I look back at season 2 and compare it the 8 episodes so far I cant help but feel slightly disapointed. Hopefully the next two will make up for it.

Lemlin

Kirby wrote: »

Yeah. Frost zombies attacking and being killed by ancient daggers, armies of crow's attacking you....it's all so boring and humdrum! Don't know about you, but that happens atleast three times a week to me. Maybe even four times!

I didn't find that terribly exciting tbh. Just my opinion. I found Tyrion's verbal battering of Joffrey more entertaining.

Sam to me is a very humdrum storyline. You may argue it was exciting last night but the build up to this week has been long and drawn out.

Handsome Bob

I wouldn't say Sam's story is necessarily boring, but they're doing it a terribly hamfisted way. I mean I don't think there was a need to end the episode with Sam's story when he was absent for all of but 7 minutes of it.

MadYaker

Sam is not a major/central character. This show is great but it suffers from to many concurrent story lines causing everything to progress at a snails pace. They could have easily left Sams story out altogether.

Witcher

They couldn't leave any of the storylines out. They will all become relevant later.

lynski

MadYaker wrote: »

Sam is not a major/central character. This show is great but it suffers from to many concurrent story lines causing everything to progress at a snails pace. They could have easily left Sams story out altogether.

I seriously doubt that. if ned starks death taught us anything it is that no one is safe and nothing is impossible.

Paddy Cow

civis_liberalis wrote: »

The lad playing King Cúntface is doing an excellent job

LOL Best description of him ever I knew he was Irish but it was still a shock when watching an interview and he spoke with an Irish accent and was really a decent fellow with not a hint of Joffery about him.

KerranJast wrote: »

He's an evil little **** but I found myself actually feeling sympathy for Cersei of all people. The one thing she's shown above all else is her love for her kids and if something nasty happens to Joffs then I hate to think of her reaction.

Cersei has always been very bitter about being born a woman. It meant that she had no say in what direction she would take in life. She hated being married off to Robert and on their wedding night he called her by a different name. She loves those kids fiercely as they are the only thing in the world that are truely hers. As much as she is Queen Mothercúntface, if anything happened to Joffery she would be devestated.

K_user wrote: »

Tywin, who would mess with that man? A single glance was enough to silence the crowd.

Tywin is awesome. He reminds me of Archie Mitchell in Eastenders. Completely ruthless and would sell out any member of his family to get what he wants. He is brilliant to watch but I wouldn't want to cross someone like him in real life. The only person who could be considered in any way an equal to him would be Margaery's grandmother. Imagine how brilliant it would be if they got together and were King and Queen. It might make for a pretty boring show though as they would squash any rebellion before it even began

Paddy Cow

KerranJast wrote: »

He's an evil little **** but I found myself actually feeling sympathy for Cersei of all people. The one thing she's shown above all else is her love for her kids and if something nasty happens to Joffs then I hate to think of her reaction.

Actually I take it all back. I just started watching season 1 again and in the second episode when Jamie pushes Bran out the window and he is in a coma, Cersei is telling Catylen about how she lost her first born child. It was a boy with dark hair who looked exactly like Robert and he died from a "fever" :mad: