UCD or RCSI?

WoolahUrma

pc11 wrote: »

Ok, we've all passed the hurdles of GAMSAT and deciding preferences. But, there are more hurdles. There's getting the loan, and there's the final decision to actually go ahead and accept, to quit work and careers, change our lives and take on this challenge.

Well, the truth is I still have doubts about actually going ahead. I'm older than most of you. I'm worried about my stamina and how enormous a challenge this is. I'm happy that I'm mentally able for the college course, it's the hours later, the chaos in our hospitals, the decade of debt, starting all over in a career at my age and the all-consuming nature of the job that scares me.

Now, I do think being scared is healthy. Nothing worthwhile is easy and I'd worried if someone wasn't daunted by becoming a doctor as I would think they have under-estimated it. That said, I haven't been able to imagine doing anything else for the last year. I am certainly likely to go ahead in the end, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't daunted.

I always felt getting in was the easy part and I think I can do the course alright. It's afterwards I worry about.

How about you? Are you 100% certain of this? If you get the loan are you absolutely definite about pursuing it? No doubts?

Reading your thoughts here remind me of a similar situation that my uncle was in a few years ago. He began his degree in his late fourties. He achieved a first in his masters and is starting his phd in september for which he has a scholarship. He's 54 now I think.

He always had a very keen intellect, biting sense of humour etc but he felt very underwhelmed by his career. In effect he was intellectually inquisitive and his job didn't allow him to flex his brain muscles so he spent a lot of time on youtube and wikipedia improving his general knowledge. He's also a fairly safe guy and he has a family, so he had a few other people to worry about when he left his comfortable, pensionable job.

He still has concerns about it but taken from the horses mouth (his wife), if he didn't do it he would have cracked up. I feel the same way myself although I'm a lot younger. If I stay where I am with the opportunity to pursue a career that I always wanted for myself, I'll go ape.

I'm very comfortable where I am at the moment and I have a nice wage/ quality of life but I do find that like my uncle I'm wasting a lot of time here. Im paid to hang around a lot of the time which might suit some people but not me.

I am a bit worried about the work load as I'm not exactly killed at the moment but I do find that I'm at my best when we're under pressure at work. To quote a famous psudo psychologist, you need to "feel the fear and do it anyway" I reckon

tiredcity

If it's any reassurance these doubts are completely normal and in fact, a good sign that you'll probably be ok. We're all fumbling our way through trying to balance things as best we can. Deciding to do medicine, irrespective of how much you've researched it, is a bit like jumping off a cliff blind. All I can say is it may be tough and you'll certainly have moments of doubt, but personally I've no regrets and each year gets a little easier. There's been lots of similar threads on this over the years, one of which I wrote a post to ages ago (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73674262&postcount=41) but perseverance gets you a heck of a long way. Don't neglect your relationships entirely and remember there IS more to life than medicine. You'll have ups and downs but you'll absolutely get through so long as you're consistent, interested in it and know when to put the books down and get some sleep

nomoreexams

tiredcity wrote: »

If it's any reassurance these doubts are completely normal and in fact, a good sign that you'll probably be ok. We're all fumbling our way through trying to balance things as best we can. Deciding to do medicine, irrespective of how much you've researched it, is a bit like jumping off a cliff blind. All I can say is it may be tough and you'll certainly have moments of doubt, but personally I've no regrets and each year gets a little easier. There's been lots of similar threads on this over the years, one of which I wrote a post to ages ago (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73674262&postcount=41) but perseverance gets you a heck of a long way. Don't neglect your relationships entirely and remember there IS more to life than medicine. You'll have ups and downs but you'll absolutely get through so long as you're consistent, interested in it and know when to put the books down and get some sleep

Thanks tiredcity! Hadn't come across that thread. Nice to hear they're common fears!!

diverboy83

I have daily worrying sessions about this; I should just schedule them for over breakfast and get them out of the way.

I keep reminding myself that not only is this something I have always wanted to do, but that I don't want to look back on my life in 30-40 years and have that regret that I never went with it when I had the chance. I am going into medicine because I genuinely want to feel like I am making a difference, however small. If that involves long hours and not-so-good working conditions, then so be it. I am not under any illusions. The only thing that really worries me is that it might turn out that I am not any good at it in the end.

I share your fears; will be leaving a very good career with prospects but life isn't just about having the career, the house with a garden, a saloon and 2.5 kids. It's about the bigger picture. It's about not being entirely self-serving and it's about doing something that really matters. That's what I think about when I find myself doubting anyways.

Forward the light brigade.

pc11

To Biologic and Enymon and other RCSI folks.

RCSI has a 1 week break in October after the first 6 weeks of classes. I have thought about working that week and even part of the following week as it's a short bank holiday week. The money would be nice.

Would it be crazy to work? After the first 6 weeks will I be badly in need of either a break or a full study week? Is it nuts to miss 2/3 days of classes the following week to work? Should you really be attending everything? (unlike undergrad at times !)

etymon

pc11 wrote: »

To Biologic and Enymon and other RCSI folks.

RCSI has a 1 week break in October after the first 6 weeks of classes. I have thought about working that week and even part of the following week as it's a short bank holiday week. The money would be nice.

Would it be crazy to work? After the first 6 weeks will I be badly in need of either a break or a full study week? Is it nuts to miss 2/3 days of classes the following week to work? Should you really be attending everything? (unlike undergrad at times !)

News to me, this would have been SWEET if we'd had it. Put it this way, I'm on week five of doing nothing and I still am wrecked after college. If we'd had that week I would have spent it kissing a sofa cushion, fully catheterised.
You can't bank on missing stuff for work. There are practical classes you MUST attend and if they're rescheduled or running over time (doctors teach them so this can happen frequently) you're kind of screwed. I AM the voice of pessimism when it comes to students working, though but I suspect my colleagues will be in agreement!

pc11

Another RCSI question:

Is anyone going to be commuting from Dublin 1/3/5 or thereabouts this coming year to Sandyford? I'd be on for sharing the driving or costs with someone. PM me if you prefer.

Somalion

nomoreexams wrote: »

I absolutely have doubts. I spoke to a consultant the other day who begged me not to do it. Not exactly what one wants to hear at this point.

I've left one incredibly stressful and unfulfilling career where there was little or no money attached. I'm worried I'm walking myself into the exact same thing, just a different building and different uniforms.

I'm afraid I won't be able for the course, that I will be pitted against people who are much more intelligent than me & I will be found lacking & in a The Biggest Loser scenario will fall below the yellow line.

I'm afraid I won't be able for the hours. I'm even more afraid I'll be responsible for the death of someone. I'm afraid that my relationship will suffer because I won't have any time to see my partner & that I'll be unbearable to be around at exam time. I'm worried about all things financial. I haven't wanted to do this for years, only the last year!

It's an incredibly terrifying decision to make. I suppose like the RCSI V UCD decision, you just have to go with your gut feeling.

Let me try and help so My dad is a consultant, absolutely adores his job and has told me a medical degree opens so many doors that a number of his classmates aren't really involved in actual hospital medicine or private practice, they're medical lawyers, pharmaceutical bigwigs etc. For a good sense of the job I have asked my dad's friend's who would be in med too and they love their careers.

Second, as for conditions, my dad used to work at least 100 hours a week in the very heavy periods. Things have improved and are continually improving, especially with the EU now looking like taking legal action against Ireland for not adhering to the working hours directive.

Another thing that I see thrown around a lot, which frustrates me is the comparison to other careers. Some say do Law, much easier, others say Investment Banking is the way to go, more money and much less work. All of this is nonsense. I know, for example, 2 Law grads, one who finished top of his class and has spent the last 3 years kissing ass to just get into a low position in a firm. The other one is currently serving coffee while searching for an internship, which she can't get anywhere. Investment banking wise, the stress involved is immense. People seem to think, much like medicine, that it's a sure shot way to big money. A friend of my father's was best friend's with a guy who went the IB route. The impression I got was once again many many years of kissing ass, working extra for no pay just to get noticed. Added to that was the fact that he essentially sat crunching numbers most of his life and felt his talent (incredible smart fellow) was actually wasted because he didn't feel he really didn't "make a difference" (his words.) A final comparison is the engineer. So many engineers struggle to find work, others never have job security (I believe there are some fields where the older you get the more vulnerable you are because of older skillsets that become less practical/inability to work long hours to meet demands/outsourcing.

The bottom line here is that early years of a career usually are tough if it is a career worth having. Medicine is tough but IS NO DIFFERENT to many other high demand careers. Very often one will run into people who are bitter about their careers because they got into them for the wrong reasons or just got dealt a sh*t hand (although that is much rarer.) Especially on the internet, if I was to believe what I read on the internet from other disgruntled docs then I would say everyone who practices medicine will be bankrupt, lonely, infested with disease, starving, miserable and will die at the age of 50. That is not the case of course. I must apologise, I don't mean to rant at all but my point is decide what you want for yourself. Don't worry about this stuff.

Here's my example, my dad.

Finished in medicine, no clue what he wanted to do. Worked in the hospital for a while, didn't like it much. Very little going on here in Ireland so he upped and joined the army and served as a doctor in the Lebanon. This whole time he was with my mother (just going out at this stage of course). When he came back he still wasn't sure, decided to go into Occupational Health (a strange field of med.) Still not much, got himself one contract with a pharmaceutical company. First few years back home he had worries such as paying the mortgage etc. They all cleared of course. Got a few more contracts, built himself up as a Consultant Occ. Health practitioner and after that everything was grand. Relationship wasn't ruined. Finance was a struggle for a while but they never defaulted on payments (and were living in a relatively wealthy spot in Dublin, not Shrewsbury or anything mad but a good place) and certainly never starved. By the time I arrived he was well established and we never struggled in the slightest.

Oh and as for the death thing, I had the same worry and talked to my dad. He told me as long as you're always meticulous, that you never treat anything as trivial (as in you zone out during work) then you'll never be at fault. All it requires is professionalism.

I'm away the next day or two so I'm sure some people will disagree with me and say medicine is worse than the plague while having ones intestines being examined by fire ants but to those who want a more positive outlook on it, STOP WORRYING. People have this expectation that there are careers you can simply enter and be minted and super happy. It takes more than that. Believe me, when any of us are lying on our deathbeds I highly doubt our thoughts will be "**** I wish I had decided to be a lawyer, medicine sucked."

EDIT: Also, really really sorry for crashing into a rant and I know a lot of my stuff is not aimed at your issues but people's worries in general. Apologies again, I just get tired of all the negativity surrounding what can be a really great career.

nomoreexams

Thanks for trying to allay my worries.

You're dads very lucky he found the career he loved and that it all worked out for him. My dad was the same, I then followed his footsteps, unfortunately I hated what he'd loved. Maybe I wasn't cut out for it, maybe it's because times have changed. The problem with any career is if you ask the people at the top of their game they're going to tell you how amazing it is, because they've made it, it's the ones at the bottom of the pile that you need to ask, they're the ones going through the sh*t. In saying that out of about 10 dr (some at the top, some middling ' some at the bottom) 6 said they'd do it all over again. It's probably the luck of the draw.

I'm enthusiastic to start medicine and I'm hopeful that my worries will be insignificant but don't forget some of us have had careers before this (I'm assuming you're coming directly from undergrad?)I'm sure a lot of us went into those career hopeful & enthusiastic and yet ultimately we've had to leave them because they weren't what we wanted to do (in some cases, as in mine.) And so it's inevitable that there will be some trepidation. Once bitten twice shy and all that. I'm not trying to be negative about medicine, I'm voicing my fears to see are other people worrying about the same things or if I'm on my own.

Anyway I don't mean this as an arguement to your point, I'm just explaining that I'm not the bright eyed bushy type, I think as much about the cons as the pros so I can't turn around in 4 years & say I never realised it would be this hard.

Somalion

nomoreexams wrote: »

Thanks for trying to allay my worries.

You're dads very lucky he found the career he loved and that it all worked out for him. My dad was the same, I then followed his footsteps, unfortunately I hated what he'd loved. Maybe I wasn't cut out for it, maybe it's because times have changed. The problem with any career is if you ask the people at the top of their game they're going to tell you how amazing it is, because they've made it, it's the ones at the bottom of the pile that you need to ask, they're the ones going through the sh*t. In saying that out of about 10 dr (some at the top, some middling ' some at the bottom) 6 said they'd do it all over again. It's probably the luck of the draw.

I'm enthusiastic to start medicine and I'm hopeful that my worries will be insignificant but don't forget some of us have had careers before this (I'm assuming you're coming directly from undergrad?)I'm sure a lot of us went into those career hopeful & enthusiastic and yet ultimately we've had to leave them because they weren't what we wanted to do (in some cases, as in mine.) And so it's inevitable that there will be some trepidation. Once bitten twice shy and all that. I'm not trying to be negative about medicine, I'm voicing my fears to see are other people worrying about the same things or if I'm on my own.

Anyway I don't mean this as an arguement to your point, I'm just explaining that I'm not the bright eyed bushy type, I think as much about the cons as the pros so I can't turn around in 4 years & say I never realised it would be this hard.

You certainly aren't alone. Yeah I've never been in an established career for long and all these worries you've cited were ones I've had too. I've talked to many doctors, including lads working in hospitals anywhere from intern to reg. level and one thing I've noticed is that those that are truly unhappy seem to have financial issues the very first thing on their mind which, in my view, kinda hints at why they entered the field.

You're completely right to have concerns and you've experienced it before. As for my dad, he's not exactly on a gravy train. His type of work requires a lot of dedication, it's not a stereotypical consultant's "easy" run (although I dispute the easiness the media portrays of it). Seeing as he chose to take a number of contracts from other companies he's required to work a lot, I would say he could range from 50-70 hours a week depending on extra office work he does at home, certainly not cushy. Yet he would still encourage medicine to anyone who asked purely, as he says, because it's stimulating and you have a lot of choice. If he decided next year to cut his week to 30 hours a week he could. I think the aim of my post, before falling into ranting, was to not worry yourself excessively because that can build a bias sometimes. I think it is going to be tough, as I said I don't think any career worth having is easy.

Imperial_Ldn

Qualifying from medicine at 23/24 with less than 10k worth of debt, the world is your oyster. Especially at that age you are used to being shat on and taken for granted and basically having **** conditions.

qualifying at 33/34 with 100k worth of debt with a dislike of being taken the piss out of by every consultant, reg, patient, administrator, nurse, porter you meet is a different story.

unless you really want to be a GP, and you have a family member with medical card list you can inherit, i'd say still to the day job, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

on the other hand, you're 23/24 now, thinking of doing the gamsat, have a **** job or are on the dole, it probably won't be any worse.

demure

Imperial_Ldn wrote: »

Qualifying from medicine at 23/24 with less than 10k worth of debt, the world is your oyster. Especially at that age you are used to being shat on and taken for granted and basically having **** conditions.

qualifying at 33/34 with 100k worth of debt with a dislike of being taken the piss out of by every consultant, reg, patient, administrator, nurse, porter you meet is a different story.

unless you really want to be a GP, and you have a family member with medical card list you can inherit, i'd say still to the day job, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

on the other hand, you're 23/24 now, thinking of doing the gamsat, have a **** job or are on the dole, it probably won't be any worse.

Are you speaking from experience?

Some bitter words, sorry to hear it.

TheKingslayer

Imperial_Ldn wrote: »

Qualifying from medicine at 23/24 with less than 10k worth of debt, the world is your oyster. Especially at that age you are used to being shat on and taken for granted and basically having **** conditions.

qualifying at 33/34 with 100k worth of debt with a dislike of being taken the piss out of by every consultant, reg, patient, administrator, nurse, porter you meet is a different story.

unless you really want to be a GP, and you have a family member with medical card list you can inherit, i'd say still to the day job, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

on the other hand, you're 23/24 now, thinking of doing the gamsat, have a **** job or are on the dole, it probably won't be any worse.

Nice to hear an alternate viewpoint, rather than the status quo dished out by most of the self serving people around here. I get the sense most people spend half their lives trying to get into medicine, and then the second half trying to get out as evidenced by the amount of people jumping onto the gp bandwagon asap. Can you elaborate Imperial?
Have heard some horrific stories coming out of some of the colleges. One of my friends knew a lad in UL who failed first year twice and got thrown out, was about 40 k in debt as well (apparently 25 k to repeat a year). Did a runner on the banks then and went to australia. poor lad will never make it home if he ever hopes to have a penny. hearsay of course, but these stories are worrying.

what percentage of people in a class can expect to become consultants? what percent can expect to become GPs ?

Imperial_Ldn

TheKingslayer wrote: »

Nice to hear an alternate viewpoint, rather than the status quo dished out by most of the self serving people around here. I get the sense most people spend half their lives trying to get into medicine, and then the second half trying to get out as evidenced by the amount of people jumping onto the gp bandwagon asap. Can you elaborate Imperial?
Have heard some horrific stories coming out of some of the colleges. One of my friends knew a lad in UL who failed first year twice and got thrown out, was about 40 k in debt as well (apparently 25 k to repeat a year). Did a runner on the banks then and went to australia. poor lad will never make it home if he ever hopes to have a penny. hearsay of course, but these stories are worrying.

what percentage of people in a class can expect to become consultants? what percent can expect to become GPs ?

well my story is very unusual. I was working in london as a clinical biochemist, basically I had a biochem degree and a biochem phd. Fairly dry work. I had reached bit of glass ceiling and felt if I didn't have the md I'd never really progress much further. So I applied to a couple of med schools in london, newcastle, ireland. I felt with the biochem background, the phd, the 'clinical' experience, I naively thought I'd walk the gamsat and do very well in interviews. Well it didn't go like that, I scraped a high 50, didnt get any offers in the UK and only got UL in ireland. My wife and I thought about it, said **** it, and she got a job there in Vistakon and I took the offer.

I was in the first cohort of UL students and it was the oddest college experience I've ever had, the only thing I can liken it to is English Language schools in the far east. I worked in South Korea (Incheon) and it was a little mini college with loads of admin staff who did small group teaching with Korean university and final year secondary school students. That is the closest thing to UL then (apparently the med school is completely different now ) but when I was there it was like a few room in a corridor in the back arse of no where.

Anyway, I didn't really care cause I just wanted to keep the head down and get on with the course and get through it. But that yaer my wife and I had a baby born with a very rare genetic disease (Fabry) . TBH I really had to push to get the diagnosis, I was never so grateful for a biochem phd then. So we needed specialist treatment in London (they didn't even want to deal with it in IReland) so we planned to moveback, try get our old jobs back and I'd know the MD on the head.

But a friend put me in touch with the dean of st georges medical school. St georges is basically the prototype of the UL course. I didn't even to apply to it orginally because it had such an awful reputation and I genuinely thought I'd get in elsewhere. I got in touch and the president of ul med at the time made a good case for me (my results after year 1 were top 3 in the class) and I was allowed transfer into year 2 of the George's course.

I got through it. My wife, who is actually from limerick, wanted to move back to limerick to be near her family and our son's treatment was transferred to a paeds in limerick with some liaison with crumlin in dublin. So I did intern year and sho in limerick. TBH it was completely different to final med in london (st georges). The sheer volume of work to be done, especially ****e work that doesn't require a doctor to do was astounding.

Admittedly, I have as mcuh interest in wiping noses, arses, taking bloods and filling out charts as i have in being a bin man so maybe I am not suited to irish medicine. But the cruel irony is now, is either I basically go back to my lab job on an extra 7k a year or go the GP route. Training for haematology or micro in Ireland seems impossible.

Anyway, I think i've gone off an awful tangent. Basically every doctor i worked with in ireland was miserable or had developed massive coping mechanisms. A lot of people with their head in the sand, and of course, plenty of irish doctors not working in irish hospital too. very irish answer to an irish question.

pc11

TheKingslayer wrote: »

Nice to hear an alternate viewpoint, rather than the status quo dished out by most of the self serving people around here. I get the sense most people spend half their lives trying to get into medicine, and then the second half trying to get out as evidenced by the amount of people jumping onto the gp bandwagon asap. Can you elaborate Imperial?
Have heard some horrific stories coming out of some of the colleges. One of my friends knew a lad in UL who failed first year twice and got thrown out, was about 40 k in debt as well (apparently 25 k to repeat a year). Did a runner on the banks then and went to australia. poor lad will never make it home if he ever hopes to have a penny. hearsay of course, but these stories are worrying.

what percentage of people in a class can expect to become consultants? what percent can expect to become GPs ?

Well, if he failed the year twice then he wasn't really 'thrown out'. But that said, I agree there are difficulties with this whole path, I wouldn't want people to under-estimate it.

Ironically, if I failed out I would be better off as I could just go back to my career where I already earn more than a junior doctor. Actually, as I posted here before, if you look at the HSE scales, almost everyone earns more than a junior doctor!

This shows we're not in it for the money, but at the same time, the pressure of having a huge debt and a low living wage will tend to ruin the idealism we may bring to this profession.

Anyone who thinks living under major financial pressure isn't soul destroying hasn't been there I reckon.

About becoming a consultant, well it hasn't been long enough for any GEMs to become consultants. In theory it should be possible, but with the shortened career, greater age and potential prejudice it may be harder in practice. I do happen to know a consultant in Waterford Hospital who was originally a biochem PhD and went back to do medicine years ago (not GEM) so he made it.

I'm guessing that at least 50% will end up in GP, but I don't actually know. It's clearly the more straightforward route.

Imperial_Ldn

pc11 wrote: »

This shows we're not in it for the money, but at the same time, the pressure of having a huge debt and a low living wage will tend to ruin the idealism we may bring to this profession.

You're deluding yourself. Everyone is in it for the money. Financial stress will squeeze every ounce of good will out of Irish GEMS.

pc11

Imperial_Ldn wrote: »

You're deluding yourself. Everyone is in it for the money. Financial stress will squeeze every ounce of good will out of Irish GEMS.

So, you're ultimately agreeing with me?

I'm not sure what you mean that everyone is in it for the money. I'll be worse off for doing GEM.

Imperial_Ldn

pc11 wrote: »

So, you're ultimately agreeing with me?

I'm not sure what you mean that everyone is in it for the money. I'll be worse off for doing GEM.

You're obviously expecting to get a consultant salary at some point and you're putting on the long con. What job do you have now?

pc11

Imperial_Ldn wrote: »

You're obviously expecting to get a consultant salary at some point and you're putting on the long con. What job do you have now?

Sorry, what does "you're putting on the long con" mean?

I don't expect I'm likely to make consultant. I am too old and it's just not realistic as there are too few posts and too many doctors, and in any case I may end up in GP.

Imperial_Ldn

There was a girl like you in my class. She was an investment banker or something, or an actuary actually. She thought because she was walking away from a 100k a year job into medicine she was mother teresa. Never met a more money hungry person than that.

pc11

Imperial_Ldn wrote: »

There was a girl like you in my class. She was an investment banker or something, or an actuary actually. She thought because she was walking away from a 100k a year job into medicine she was mother teresa. Never met a more money hungry person than that.

My situation is nothing like that, thank you. When I say I earn more now, I am not in a high-paying job at all, my point is that junior doctors make even less. I'm no Mother Teresa.

I thought this was a reasonable conversation, now I think you're just trolling. You are angry and bitter, clearly. Maybe with good reason, who knows, but you can stop taking it out on the rest of us.

Imperial_Ldn

pc11 wrote: »

My situation is nothing like that, thank you. When I say I earn more now, I am not in a high-paying job at all, my point is that junior doctors make even less. I'm no Mother Teresa.

I thought this was a reasonable conversation, now I think you're just trolling. You are angry and bitter, clearly. Maybe with good reason, who knows, but you can stop taking it out on the rest of us.

obviously the truth upsets some people

pc11

Imperial_Ldn wrote: »

obviously the truth upsets some people

What truth exactly? You said this is a difficult path, full of pressure and frustration and I said the same.

What do you think that you are telling us exactly that we don't know?

Imperial_Ldn

pc11 wrote: »

What truth exactly? You said this is a difficult path, full of pressure and frustration and I said the same.

What do you think that you are telling us exactly that we don't know?

because you don't understand what you're saying. Just because you say it doesn't mean you know it to be true. Like I can say it would be terrifying to be a soldier in the iraq war but I don't know how it feels to be a soldier in an iraq war. You're just repeating empty mantras and not really taking the time to understand what you're saying.

pc11

Imperial_Ldn wrote: »

because you don't understand what you're saying. Just because you say it doesn't mean you know it to be true. Like I can say it would be terrifying to be a soldier in the iraq war but I don't know how it feels to be a soldier in an iraq war. You're just repeating empty mantras and not really taking the time to understand what you're saying.

This is like every Vietnam war movie:

"You don't know maaaan, you weren't there!"

Abby19

pc11 wrote: »

About becoming a consultant, well it hasn't been long enough for any GEMs to become consultants. In theory it should be possible, but with the shortened career, greater age and potential prejudice it may be harder in practice. I do happen to know a consultant in Waterford Hospital who was originally a biochem PhD and went back to do medicine years ago (not GEM) so he made it.

There have always been people coming into medicine from other routes.
Off the top of my head I know of a number of consultants who started out in different paths, one a biochem PhD, one a pharmacist and one a nurse. Every maxillofacial surgeon has to have degrees in both dentistry and medicine, and they can complete them in any order.
Also GPs - I know of a retired and a close to retired GP, one was a physio, the other had worked in a lab. As GEM is only around for a few years, they would all have gone back and done medicine by the undergraduate route.
There are also a good few qualified GPs who go back into hospital medicine, I have been on rotation with two SPRs who had previously completed GP training, and many hospital doctors who have gone or are trying to get into GP.

WoolahUrma

Imperial_Ldn wrote: »

because you don't understand what you're saying. Just because you say it doesn't mean you know it to be true. Like I can say it would be terrifying to be a soldier in the iraq war but I don't know how it feels to be a soldier in an iraq war. You're just repeating empty mantras and not really taking the time to understand what you're saying.

Did you qualify in the end? Are you working in the field now?

Imperial_Ldn

WoolahUrma wrote: »

Did you qualify in the end? Are you working in the field now?

just finished SHO in ireland and 'working' as research reg at the moment'

WoolahUrma

Imperial_Ldn wrote: »

just finished SHO in ireland and 'working' as research reg at the moment'

do you think you'll stick with the medicine? are all the medics you've dealt with depressed/ using coping mechanisims/ money hungry?

pc11

Abby19 wrote: »

There have always been people coming into medicine from other routes.
Off the top of my head I know of a number of consultants who started out in different paths, one a biochem PhD, one a pharmacist and one a nurse. Every maxillofacial surgeon has to have degrees in both dentistry and medicine, and they can complete them in any order.
Also GPs - I know of a retired and a close to retired GP, one was a physio, the other had worked in a lab. As GEM is only around for a few years, they would all have gone back and done medicine by the undergraduate route.
There are also a good few qualified GPs who go back into hospital medicine, I have been on rotation with two SPRs who had previously completed GP training, and many hospital doctors who have gone or are trying to get into GP.

That's something I've wondered about: how hard is it to start in either hospital or GP training but change later if you wish? You get the impression it's a fairly final decision, but there must be ways to switch as you say.

In particular, I have thought I might be interested in doing hospital training in general medicine, and I would imagine that's relatively transferable to GP if I wanted to.

I wonder how many people start medicine with a clear idea of here they want to end up and how many change their mind, perhaps many times, as they go?