AV system recomendation and set up

MFour

We are currently redecorating our main room, incorporating a 5.1 surround sound system and would appreciate some suggestions on possible equipment and set up. The system will be built around an existing Panasonic TX-P42-GT30B TV and a Panasonic DMP-BDT-110 Blue ray player. I wish to purchase an AV receiver, speakers and connections/cabling to complete the system. My budget is approx. €2-2.5K. Do you deliver to Cork?  Is that an extra cost? 

The room, see attached sketch, is an open plan space 7.13 X 3.71 meters and has a timber floor. I will mount the TV on the long wall. That wall has a 1.44m gap, with steps leading into the kitchen, which we will cover with ceiling to floor lined curtains. I am hoping that this will be sufficient to minimise sound leakage. We will view the TV on a couch parallel to the 'TV wall', the rear of which will be approx. 80 cm from the wall. 

Quality of sound is the prime factor but appearance is also a consideration. I am considering to mount the TV on a cabinet with a back panel e.g. a Besta Framsta cabinet from Ikea http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/S49908203/. Part of the logic for this is to hide the cabling without chasing the wall, using conduit or worrying to much about future proofing the cables. However this might be overkill and other suggestions are most welcome. 

I am not too sure what model speakers to use. However I thought that perhaps some floor standers might work well for the front speakers. While the rear speakers could be wall mounted; perhaps more discrete speakers on stands might work well e.g. egg type design or other appropriate choice. How would you recommend hiding the cabling to the rear effects speakers? Would you run cabling around the room on top of the skirting board? Are there any wireless rear speakers which are affordable and worth considering in terms of sound quality?

Richersounds.ie: Kenny

MFour wrote: »

We are currently redecorating our main room, incorporating a 5.1 surround sound system and would appreciate some suggestions on possible equipment and set up. The system will be built around an existing Panasonic TX-P42-GT30B TV and a Panasonic DMP-BDT-110 Blue ray player. I wish to purchase an AV receiver, speakers and connections/cabling to complete the system. My budget is approx. €2-2.5K. Do you deliver to Cork?  Is that an extra cost? 

The room, see attached sketch, is an open plan space 7.13 X 3.71 meters and has a timber floor. I will mount the TV on the long wall. That wall has a 1.44m gap, with steps leading into the kitchen, which we will cover with ceiling to floor lined curtains. I am hoping that this will be sufficient to minimise sound leakage. We will view the TV on a couch parallel to the 'TV wall', the rear of which will be approx. 80 cm from the wall. 

Quality of sound is the prime factor but appearance is also a consideration. I am considering to mount the TV on a cabinet with a back panel e.g. a Besta Framsta cabinet from Ikea http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/S49908203/. Part of the logic for this is to hide the cabling without chasing the wall, using conduit or worrying to much about future proofing the cables. However this might be overkill and other suggestions are most welcome. 

I am not too sure what model speakers to use. However I thought that perhaps some floor standers might work well for the front speakers. While the rear speakers could be wall mounted; perhaps more discrete speakers on stands might work well e.g. egg type design or other appropriate choice. How would you recommend hiding the cabling to the rear effects speakers? Would you run cabling around the room on top of the skirting board? Are there any wireless rear speakers which are affordable and worth considering in terms of sound quality?

Hi MFour,

Thanks for getting in touch and apologies about the delay in getting back to you.

Got a nice system in mind for you  

It comes in a little over budget but let me know what you think and we'll see what we can do

Judging by the layout I'd agree with going for floorstanders.  I have the full Monitor Audio RX6 pack.  I'm not sure if you've come across this pack before... IT'S UNREAL!!  Very good reveiws and the RX6s are an all round favorite here in the store.  Check the link below for more info:

http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/silver-rx/rx6-av12/

It also comes in a range of finishes to keep the room looking slick.  Unfortunately the gloss black and white finish are a little more expensive.

For an amp to run this beast of a system check out the Yamaha RXV 673.  Award winning amp with such a good sound for the price it's coming in at.  6 HDMI in and 1 out so plenty of inputs so that should help keep things future proofed for ya.  It also have some good network features such as internet radio and Apple Airplay   No wifi unfortunately so would need to run an ethernet cable or use home plugs to connect it to your network.  Check the link below for more info:

http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/yamaha/rxv673/yama-rxv673-blk

Loving that stand, very nice.  Good planning on hiding the cables.  The shevles underneath it or a bit small so wouldn't really hold an amp or centre speaker so they'd have to go on the top shelf.  Still look good though.

For your rear speakers there's no real issue with running cable around.  Can run it round the skirting boards or run conduant around to keep everything hidden.  Not really an awful lot in the way of wireless speakers that we would carry.  Found them to be abit hit and miss sometimes so don't really bother much with them.

The total inc del for the above system would be €3,230.18 for the standard wood finish in the speakers.  

That's not including speaker cable etc.  If you can let me know how much you'd need I can work something out for you.

Let me know what you think and I'll see what we can do for you   Sorry for giving you a quote over the budget price but it's honestly worth having a look at.  Your ears will love you for it.

Chris

MFour

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the detailed reply. A really lovely system alright but it would definitely stretch the budget. So I will need to do some serious thinking about that. Was that price delivered?

I like the stand but I am not completely fixed to it. My preference would be to fit the receiver into whatever shelves I choose. I am not sure if there is any options with this stand for wider shelves; so far I have not seen this option. Is there another stand that you think might perform a similar function to the Besta Framsta? So far I have not seen anything. I should have mentioned I will also have a Sky HD box connecting into the receiver.

Would you just rest the centre speaker on top of the shelves? Would that be likely to impact the sound quality.

The cables would probably be run around the skirting boards; so I suspect I might need approx 11m for each.

How would you recommend wiring the electronics to the TV. All the boxes into the receiver and one HDMI from receiver to TV? I note that this receiver HDMI's are ARC compatible and I believe my TV is also. Do you think that would work; is that the best approach?

Finally for the effects speakers; would you wall mount these or put them on stands. Personally I suspect stands would look better but I can feel the price going into orbit as I ask more questions! Are there stands you would recommend?

Am I missing anything?

Thanks again Chris

Richersounds.ie: Dave

Hi MFour.

I was working on a different system for last night before I locked myself out of the office. Long story !

I don't know of a similar unit to the Ikea one, so I was working on the fact that this was the system you were looking to buy, so I was trying to fit into this.

The problem that I could see with the stand is that the spacing underneath the stand is quite tight and I couldn't see where the dimensions are for the base unit are.

The Yamaha is nearly 37 cm high and you need to have an air gap at the top so that the receiver does not overheat and I don't believe that this will fit into the unit that you are looking at, based on the pictures.

With this in mind, the centre speaker could also be in a similar position although this could sit on top of the unit (below where the TV is). This will mean it's quite visible.

There are a few alternatives that you could look at as I'd be pretty sure that getting furniture like that, you probably want something that's going to fit in rather than sit on the unit otherwise it will take the look off the unit.

Marantz make 2 slimline receivers called the NR1505 and 1604.

I personally was working on the basis of using the NR1604 which is a better receiver than the Yamaha and combined with a similar speaker package but using a Monitor Audio radius 225 instead as the centre speaker. I use a 250 centre in my system but I'm not sure you would have the width for this.

System would be :

Marantz NR1604
RX6
RXW12
RXFX
RADIUS 225 (single)
DELIVERY  

This would come in at €3000 including delivery and the cable that I would recommend would be the QED silver Anniversary.

This is priced at 6.69 Euro per metre and is 5* what Hifi award winning cable. You would also need a subwoofer cable and depending on the lenght required these can be anywhere from 13 euro to 50 euro but I'm sure we can throw one your direction.

I hope this helps but let me know if you actually have the dimensions of the stand or what you think of this system above.

ATB



Dave

MFour

Hi Dave,

My apologies for my slow response. Thank you very much for putting together another possible solution. It sounds very interesting. 

Are you suggesting to put the RADIUS 225 (single) in the shelves or would you mount it? I have found it difficult to find a review of this speaker; how does it rate?


You mentioned that the Marantz is a better AV receiver than the Yamaha. Is that in terms of audio/ video or features?  Is there any compromises because of the slim design?


I have found it very difficult to get the dimensions of the shelves; we have not purchased the unit yet. It looks like there are a number of options on the components that go into the shelving unit. I think we will need to go to Dublin and visit IKEA. Do you know the dimensions of the Marantz NR1604 or the centre speakers which you have suggested?


How would you recommend mounting the speakers; on the back wall or on stands behind the couch?  I think that stands might look better; however price will be a consideration. 


How would you recommend wiring the electronics to the TV. All the boxes into the receiver and one HDMI from receiver to TV? I note that this receiver HDMI's are ARC compatible and I believe my TV is also. Do you think that would work; is that the best approach?



Thanks again for all the help.

Richersounds.ie: Kenny

MFour wrote: »

Hi Dave,

My apologies for my slow response. Thank you very much for putting together another possible solution. It sounds very interesting. 

Are you suggesting to put the RADIUS 225 (single) in the shelves or would you mount it? I have found it difficult to find a review of this speaker; how does it rate?


You mentioned that the Marantz is a better AV receiver than the Yamaha. Is that in terms of audio/ video or features?  Is there any compromises because of the slim design?


I have found it very difficult to get the dimensions of the shelves; we have not purchased the unit yet. It looks like there are a number of options on the components that go into the shelving unit. I think we will need to go to Dublin and visit IKEA. Do you know the dimensions of the Marantz NR1604 or the centre speakers which you have suggested?


How would you recommend mounting the speakers; on the back wall or on stands behind the couch?  I think that stands might look better; however price will be a consideration. 


How would you recommend wiring the electronics to the TV. All the boxes into the receiver and one HDMI from receiver to TV? I note that this receiver HDMI's are ARC compatible and I believe my TV is also. Do you think that would work; is that the best approach?



Thanks again for all the help.

Hi MFour.

The Radius 225 comes with it own bracket so could go on the shelves or on the wall which ever suit you better. If wall mounting would it still be below the TV?

The Radius range of Monitor Audio is fantastic and has a excellent sound quality.

The Marantz has better sound reproduction and does not lose out of feature or quality due to its slim design.
The dimensions of the Marantz are:

[size=8pt][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Dimensions W x H x D (Inchs)[/font][/size]
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]17-21/64" x 4-9/64" x 14-29/64"[/font]



And the Monitor Audio Radius 225HD:

[th]External Dimensions
(H x W x D): mm (inches)[/th]
610 x 125 x 105 mm
(24 x 4 15/16 x 4 1/8)


For mounting the rear speakers.  If the wall is too far behind the sofa then stands would be the best way to go to get the best from the system.

When it comes to wiring have all your components connected to the AMp via HDMI (Where possible) and then one to the TV which will also do the ARC.

Hope this helps a little any further questions please let us know.

MFour

Thank you Kenny,

This is great information. I am very interested in this system but my next step is to purchase the TV cabinet as this will impact some choices. Hopefully I will do that at the weekend. 

In the meantime what stands would you pair with the effects speakers?  Do you have any in stock?  

If space is not a limiting factor; do you think there is much difference between the Radius 225 or the RX6 centre speakers?

Thanks again.

Richersounds.ie: Dave

Hi Mfour.

The RX centre is most definitely a better centre speaker.

I had an old version of this centre but due to the location of the centre (and earache from the missus) I had to relocate the centre to someone else's house and go for the Radius 250. I did notice a reduction in performance but it still sounds excellent and fitted into where we needed it to go whereas the old centre was just not feasible.

So I suppose in answer to the question, the RX centre is better, if it will fit. It's the fitting that can be the problem and the RX centre is not the easiest to wall mount.

For the rear speakers, the RXFX speakers are really designed to be wall mounted as they have a flat back and small footprint so if you are against this, then the thing to do would be to replace these with a pair of RX1 speakers and put these on stands like the Mission stance.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-stands/mission/stance/miss-stance-blk

The only issue with this is the the RX1's are more directional than the RXFX so in terms of the layout of the room, the RX1's would need to be positioned to the left of the window opposite the doors and to the right of the window. This would provide the sofa opposite the TV the best surround affect but the other sofa would be a little left out. The RXFX are a bipolar design and therefore offer a wider sound field which would provide the other sofa with a better balance.

Some people prefer the bookshelf speakers as they mainly sit on that sofa so if that works for you then the speakers on stands would work well. The wall mounted RXFX are more discreet.

The cost to change is about £20 + the cost of the stands.

Just on the Marantz receiver, it offers equal performance on the home cinema side of things but it sounds a lot better in terms of stereo and the only thing that you lose on on is power, but these are just numbers as there will be adequate power in the Marantz to drive those speakers, in your room.

Hope this helps but happy buying in Ikea and keep us posted if you have any other queries.

By the way, while you're there, I'll have the really classy black kitchen with the purple led down lights. :)

ATB



Dave

MFour

Hi Dave,

Thanks again for all the invaluable information.  With all your help and a trip to IKEA; I think I am almost there.  

The Besta stand is modular and with some help from the guy's at IKEA; I was able to change the layout to something more appropriate.  I managed to fit all in our car but unfortunately could not squeeze in that classy black kitchen with the purple LED lights!  The external height of the shelf unit is now 40cm; so I can fit any of the components inside, even with a shelf inside.  Taking all this into account I think I will go for the following:

Marantz NR1604
RX6
RXW12
RXFX (to be wall mounted)
RX centre
DELIVERY


There are four compartments under the stand. I don't think I could use them to house the centre speaker as it wouldn't be central. I think I would place the RX centre on top of the shelves, underneath the TV.  I think that should look OK.


Am I correct that the cable you are suggesting is QED silver Anniversary XT and that there is no biwiring of any speakers involved?


In that case I believe I would need the following cable lengths:


RX6 floor mounters - 8 Ft X 2
Centre - 3ft
RXFX - 52 feet X 2 


I would also need a cable for the subwoofer; where would you recommend situating this?  Lastly I would need interconnects for all the above. I just need to decide between the rosewood or wallnut.


I have a couple of remaining questions.   


When you wall mount the RXFX speakers; is there any 'toeing in'?  I have read that they go approx 2ft over your listening position and I guess I put them directly behind the couch; but is the positioning critical?  is there any issue with these been close to our curtains?  


Do the speakers require running in or is that really advised?

I would appreciate if you could quote me an unbelievable Board's deal for this :-) What is the lead time for ordering and delivery?


Thanks again for all the help.


Kind regards,


Michael 

Richersounds.ie: Dave

Hi Michael.

Thanks for the reply and I'll forgive for the kitchen. Don't really understand why you didn't do a second run though, but that's life !

That's great news on the stand....typical Ikea, they think of everything.

The cable is the XT cable and I would not necessarily bi-wire the front speakers unless you are certain you will never need the extra 2 terminals for 7.1 as it uses these for biwiring /biamping.

The performance different is worth it in my view if your fronts are pretty close.

The total above would work out at about 38m without the biwire or 43m with the biwire.

The sub is non-directional so this can be positioned anywhere in the room. I would try and avoid corners so if you can put it beside a sofa, beside the TV rack, position is not vital for the sub. I tend to find it works best off to one side around the middle of the room but it does need power and cable wise length is not really an issue.

I have my rear speakers mounted just above the height of the back of the sofa which works really well. Having them directly behind you is not great, a little above is perfect. Close to curtains is not a problem although the curtain will absorb a bit of the sound. Living room furnishings are a pain but I guess we need them ?????

The speakers will need a bit of run in time. We have a Monitor Audio disk, which we can give you which will help with that and get them up to speed quickly. Normally £10.

Marantz NR1604
RX6
RXW12
RXFX
RX centre
43m Cable
Subwoofer cable 
Monitor Audio Run in disc
DELIVERY

Total should be £3040.

We can do this lot on a boardies price of £2670 including delivery or 3250 Euro. This is only 250 Euro more than I quoted you before and this includes the better centre speaker and cabling, so this is a great deal.

Let me know what you make of all this and I personally would go for the Walnut but they are both beautifully finished.

ATVB



Dave