Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

Overheal

Stuar I strongly advise you go take a breather from this thread or one will be provided for you.

stuar

Overheal wrote: »

easy now..

What about provocation from a troll?

Emmadilema123

stuar wrote: »

Idiot

That is really uncalled for. My point is you have to expect some ridiculousness in a conspiracy theories thread. If not you should be in current affairs. Totally unnecessary and you have lost all credibility by resorting to name calling!

Overheal

Alright, move on, the cat fight is over and won't be entertained further (last warning).

stuar

Overheal wrote: »

Stuar I strongly advise you go take a breather from this thread or one will be provided for you.

Listen, I'm ok, but some teenager on their summer holidays, allowed stay up late shouldn't be allowed provoke people, I realise I reacted, but give that person a break.

Overheal

As offered, take a day off.

Emmadilema123

Not a teenager or on summer holidays just trying to lighten things a bit as I felt you were getting a bit het up. I wanted to give you a dig out and was not in anyway trying to provoke you. I apologise for upsetting you. Obviously read the crowd wrong!

Going Forward

stuar wrote: »

Listen, I'm ok, but some teenager on their summer holidays, allowed stay up late shouldn't be allowed provoke people, I realise I reacted, but give that person a break.

Easy, best not to get yourself in trouble (or worse) on this very thread which you started, 5 years ago!

And fair dues to you for starting it- now stay in it:)

Overheal

Emmadilema123 wrote: »

Not a teenager or on summer holidays just trying to lighten things a bit as I felt you were getting a bit het up. I wanted to give you a dig out and was not in anyway trying to provoke you. I apologise for upsetting you. Obviously read the crowd wrong!

That's two.

jack923

stuar wrote: »

WHAT?, are you delusional?, a child, male or female isn't a woman.
I don't know if your trolling or just thick, but read what you wrote.

I misread the OP i meant maybe they did respindle and it had some link to the IRA so they destroyed the evidence. This is a conspiracy theories thread it's commonly known the IRA buried a lot of people in Donegal and that gardai were very sympathetic to the IRA with many of them working with them, maybe it was destroyed to cover the IRA and that it wasn't even the young girl there who the OP mentioned and it was someone else. Then again don't shout me down on it it's just a conspiracy and I'm just rambling.

Overheal

Also, I can confirm the youtube doc works in the US. Must just be blocked in Ireland.

Sundew

DonegalTech wrote: »

The documentary I watched didn't name any names of either the suspect or the politician.

A suspect was named and it was stated what he had done in the "comments section " on the documentary this evening, not on the documentary itself!
I saw the comment not long after it was posted and it was a really, really stupid thing to do especially as film was up to 80,000 views and gaining momentum. You can't control the trolls on YouTube so I would personally close comments if video was posted again.

jack923

stuar wrote: »

Listen, I'm ok, but some teenager on their summer holidays, allowed stay up late shouldn't be allowed provoke people, I realise I reacted, but give that person a break.

Bush blew up the towers!



Awaits reaction....

Esel

"Forget it, Jake Jack. It's Chinatown Donegal."

Sundew

Video is viewable again....down for a comments cleanup I would imagine!

Esel

Sundew wrote: »

Video is viewable again....down for a comments cleanup I would imagine!

I really hope comments are closed now. The whole issue is too serious to be fup duck by people posting free Can't Get A Fair Trial cards.

Anyone remember the Harney / Haughey fiasco? I always wondered about that one...

Going Forward

There's something that was said during an interview with Gemma O Doherty about the suspect not having been questioned:

O’Doherty: “I know that, and I completely trust the opinion of the senior gardai that I’ve been working with on this case. But also Ann and Margo and other peopled familiar with the situation and it is their belief that if the killer was brought in and properly questioned, that a confession would be forthcoming. And they believe that this individual has never been questioned properly.”

Delaney: “Never been questioned.”

O’Doherty: “That is their belief and certainly not arrested.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/10/02/if-the-suspect-is-brought-in-a-confession-would-be-forthcoming/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=web&utm_content=related_posts


In the documentary the suspect was questioned but the gaurd questioning him said he was told to lay off.

Is there anything to account for this discrepancy, albeit there may be more than one suspect or is it phrasing??

oranbhoy67

Going Forward wrote: »

There's something that was said during an interview with Gemma O Doherty about the suspect not having been questioned:

O’Doherty: “I know that, and I completely trust the opinion of the senior gardai that I’ve been working with on this case. But also Ann and Margo and other peopled familiar with the situation and it is their belief that if the killer was brought in and properly questioned, that a confession would be forthcoming. And they believe that this individual has never been questioned properly.”

Delaney: “Never been questioned.”

O’Doherty: “That is their belief and certainly not arrested.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/10/02/if-the-suspect-is-brought-in-a-confession-would-be-forthcoming/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=web&utm_content=related_posts


In the documentary the suspect was questioned but the gaurd questioning him said he was told to lay off.

Is there anything to account for this discrepancy, albeit there may be more than one suspect or is it phrasing??

he was questioned but never formally arrested

K-9

DonegalTech wrote: »

Who has filed a defamation case against the video, I didn't think the video named anybody.

Did I see a different version of the video or what?

May well be a comment that was posted on the video.

Shows you why boards has to be careful about what is said on here. The odd thing is, more is expected of us because it's a moderated site, less so if it was a free for all!

Anyway boards has consistently gone on about this for years...

The other side of it is unfounded allegations can gain ground, people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 and that isn't fair at all either.

K-9

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

he was questioned but never formally arrested

Aye, not formally questioned which is basically worthless.

The new investigation needs to be done properly and if that takes months to do, so be it.

evancostello

I find that the idea of a gigantic conspiracy involving senior gardai and polititians completely irrational and unsupported by anything I have seen. Is there something else in the public domain that I am not aware of ? I know there were two investigations into Complaints of Garda handling of this case and the Gardai were exonerated. ( Frances Fitzgerald) Are we saying the conspiracy extends to GSOC? It is telling , in the documentary that neither detectives say there was a cover up. This charge is made by the maker , Margo and Ann Doherty but there is no basis for this that I could ascertain anyway.
Very confusing

evancostello

Just one other issue that is troubling. The documentary does not say that the suspect was NOT questioned but that he was not arrested. I would imaging he was questioned on numerous occasions but I think the detectives are saying that he did not endure the rigours of being arrested. The follow on from this is that if he was , he may have cracked? Hightly speculative. Also isnt it the case the you can only arrest someone when you have sufficient evidence rather than for the purposes of shaking him down and hope that he would "crack".

Esel

Coughs. Coughs gigantically again. Rinse and repeat.

jenny smith

Michael O Toole on Drivetime

scroll down

evancostello

mmmm check out the front page of the Donegal Post . Looks like the documentary is in unravelloing mode.

jenny smith

evancostello wrote: »

I find that the idea of a gigantic conspiracy involving senior gardai and polititians completely irrational and unsupported by anything I have seen. Is there something else in the public domain that I am not aware of ? I know there were two investigations into Complaints of Garda handling of this case and the Gardai were exonerated. ( Frances Fitzgerald) Are we saying the conspiracy extends to GSOC? It is telling , in the documentary that neither detectives say there was a cover up. This charge is made by the maker , Margo and Ann Doherty but there is no basis for this that I could ascertain anyway.
Very confusing

In an interview on ocean FM after the doc was shown Margo said she had no evidence only what she knew and was told. That may be good enough for her but not a court. She also said the other stations would not show it unless certain parts were cut. Probably they did not want to get sued. The video had to be take off facebook last night due to defamation threat but is back. That may have been a comment rather than content

Going Forward

evancostello wrote: »

I find that the idea of a gigantic conspiracy involving senior gardai and polititians completely irrational and unsupported by anything I have seen. Is there something else in the public domain that I am not aware of ? I know there were two investigations into Complaints of Garda handling of this case and the Gardai were exonerated. ( Frances Fitzgerald) Are we saying the conspiracy extends to GSOC? It is telling , in the documentary that neither detectives say there was a cover up. This charge is made by the maker , Margo and Ann Doherty but there is no basis for this that I could ascertain anyway.
Very confusing

What do you make of what the two retired Gardai did say in the documentary?

Also, I wouldn't read too much into the gaurds exonerating themselves.

As for GSOC, their remit is very limited.

http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/complaints/complainhow.html

An "inadmissible" complaint won't be investigated to the best of my knowledge.

Going Forward

jenny smith wrote: »

In an interview on ocean FM after the doc was shown Margo said she had no evidence only what she knew and was told. That may be good enough for her but not a court. She also said the other stations would not show it unless certain parts were cut. Probably they did not want to get sued. The video had to be take off facebook last night due to defamation threat but is back. That may have been a comment rather than content

What a court would make of what Margo claims is completely irrelevant.

It is not for a court to make anything of her claims at this stage.

Before anything can get near a court it is up to the Gardai to investigate the claims if they decide to do so and try to gather evidence, statements witnesses etc.

It is not Gemma O Doherty's or Margo's job to do the guards work for them.

Going Forward

evancostello wrote: »

mmmm check out the front page of the Donegal Post . Looks like the documentary is in unravelloing mode.

Can you elaborate?

Sundew

jenny smith wrote: »

The video had to be take off facebook last night due to defamation threat but is back. That may have been a comment rather than content

I would say video was definitely taken down for a short while because of a certain comment which I personally saw. The comment mentioned a name and what a certain person may have done. The comments had to be wiped after that. It was really stupid and uncalled for, but then again you can't control trolls :-(

evancostello

Appears from the Donegal Post that one of the Detectives, a Martin Collins, is saying that he never stated that there was a cover up by the Gardai, in fact he says the case was investigated without any interference from his superiors, which the Documentary suggested. Further that the phone call made no difference whatsover to the investigation. Worth reading.

Macca07

Sundew wrote: »

I would say video was definitely taken down for a short while because of a certain comment which I personally saw. The comment mentioned a name and what a certain person may have done. The comments had to be wiped after that. It was really stupid and uncalled for, but then again you can't control trolls :-(

The comments section had been completely removed now from the YouTube page. Probably better off.

Merkin

jenny smith wrote: »

Michael O Toole on Drivetime

scroll down

The link is a discussion on Angela Merkel?

Macca07

evancostello wrote: »

Appears from the Donegal Post that one of the Detectives, a Martin Collins, is saying that he never stated that there was a cover up by the Gardai, in fact he says the case was investigated without any interference from his superiors, which the Documentary suggested. Further that the phone call made no difference whatsover to the investigation. Worth reading.

The thing is, I don't think he mentions once about a cover up, or interference from his superiors, it was the other retired Garda that says this.

However, Collins blatantly says that the suspect is definitely from the area, and still lives there. Which means he knows who it is...

How one could argue that a phone call from a politican didn't affect the investigation of this is pure tripe though...

BTW, I haven't read the article.

BubbleBuddy

Merkin wrote: »

The link is a discussion on Angela Merkel?

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_drivetime.xml
As of 2.55pm Second Link Down:
Mary Boyle
A specialist garda unit is to take a fresh look into the disappearance of six-year-old Mary Boyle, who was last seen almost 40 years ago in Co Donegal. We spoke to Michael O'Toole.

Going Forward

evancostello wrote: »

Appears from the Donegal Post that one of the Detectives, a Martin Collins, is saying that he never stated that there was a cover up by the Gardai, in fact he says the case was investigated without any interference from his superiors, which the Documentary suggested. Further that the phone call made no difference whatsover to the investigation. Worth reading.

If you could link it or scan it?

Collins must have changed his mind then.
Last week he was reported to have said there was a cover up:


“A phonecall was made to Ballyshannon station, it was a politician. The gist of the conversation was that none of a particular family should be made a suspect for Mary’s disappearance,” retired sergeant Martin Collins tells the documentary.

Another former garda, retired detective sergeant Aidan Murray, says that he too was told by a now deceased former garda to lay off a particular suspect:




http://www.thejournal.ie/mary-boyle-the-untold-story-2868438-Jul2016/

jenny smith

Merkin wrote: »

The link is a discussion on Angela Merkel?

sorry was it ?. try
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_drivetime.xml

you have to scroll down. I said that. it is showing second down for me

jenny smith

Going Forward wrote: »

If you could link it or scan it?

Collins must have changed his mind then.
Last week he was reported to have said there was a cover up:


“A phonecall was made to Ballyshannon station, it was a politician. The gist of the conversation was that none of a particular family should be made a suspect for Mary’s disappearance,” retired sergeant Martin Collins tells the documentary.

Another former garda, retired detective sergeant Aidan Murray, says that he too was told by a now deceased former garda to lay off a particular suspect:




http://www.thejournal.ie/mary-boyle-the-untold-story-2868438-Jul2016/

http://www.donegalnow.com/news/rte-ignored-desperate-efforts-for-justice-in-mary-boyle-case-alleges-odoherty/104437 is all i can see on donegal post

Merkin

Thanks Jenny, my bad. Neither link works for me so I think it's an issue this end!

jenny smith

Merkin wrote: »

Thanks Jenny, my bad. Neither link works for me so I think it's an issue this end!

i can upload the mp3 here if you want or is that against the rules?

Merkin

jenny smith wrote: »

i can upload the mp3 here if you want or is that against the rules?

I'm not sure but if it's allowed I'll really appreciate it, thanks!

K-9

Going Forward wrote: »

If you could link it or scan it?

Collins must have changed his mind then.
Last week he was reported to have said there was a cover up:


“A phonecall was made to Ballyshannon station, it was a politician. The gist of the conversation was that none of a particular family should be made a suspect for Mary’s disappearance,” retired sergeant Martin Collins tells the documentary.

Another former garda, retired detective sergeant Aidan Murray, says that he too was told by a now deceased former garda to lay off a particular suspect:




http://www.thejournal.ie/mary-boyle-the-untold-story-2868438-Jul2016/

The poster evancostello said Collins was quoted as saying the phone call made no difference to the investigation, not that it didn't take place.

Clarification will be needed by the video makers on this definitely.

evancostello

The guards didn't exonerate Guards, GSOC did. I dont know what the remit of GSOC is. How is it limited? Their function is to deal with Possible misconduct of the gardai, I thought.

K-9

Merkin wrote: »

I'm not sure but if it's allowed I'll really appreciate it, thanks!

I don't think there is any reason why not. I've seen others post soundcloud links to podcasts with no problems, I'm not aware of any copyright issues anyway, just make sure you give credit in the post to RTE anyway!

jenny smith

won't upload here . here is a link http://picosong.com/tqrN/ copyright is RTE

K-9

evancostello wrote: »

The guards didn't exonerate Guards, GSOC did. I dont know what the remit of GSOC is. How is it limited? Their function is to deal with Possible misconduct of the gardai, I thought.

It's hard to know. I assume they focus more on the conduct of the investigation and that the Gardai acted professionally, but I'm no expert on GSOC investigations! My suspicion is the time lapse might be a problem. If there was a cover up there isn't going to much about it on paper!

jenny smith

K-9 wrote: »

It's hard to know. I assume they focus more on the conduct of the investigation and that the Gardai acted professionally, but I'm no expert on GSOC investigations! My suspicion is the time lapse might be a problem. If there was a cover up there isn't going to much about it on paper!

But GSOC cannot look at the original investigation ? i don't think so

Going Forward

evancostello wrote: »

The guards didn't exonerate Guards, GSOC did. I dont know what the remit of GSOC is. How is it limited? Their function is to deal with Possible misconduct of the gardai, I thought.

It is limited by the following, timescales, personally affected, or witnessed, and it reads as if the complaint is to be against a specific (presumably named) member of AGS:


"If you are directly affected by what you believe is misconduct of a member of the Garda Síochána, you can complain to the Garda Ombudsman.


You can also make a complaint if you are a direct witness to such behaviour.

In many circumstances you can complain on someone’s behalf, if you have their consent.




How we deal with complaints

Will my complaint be examined?

Your complaint will be admissible for examination if:

You were directly affected, or directly witnessed the behaviour complained of (sic)
The alleged behaviour is considered as misbehaviour under the Garda Síochána Discipline Regulations 2007
The complaint is made within 12 months of the incident
The complaint is not false or misleading"

It is quite possible that Mary's sister's complaint was rejected on a number of the above grounds.

Complaining to GSOC about a case like this wouldn't be as straightforward as might be assumed, given the considerable passing of time time and whether GSOC even "believes" what you are alleging.

If they believe it to be "false or misleading", there's no investigation.


http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/complaints/complainhow.html

jenny smith

K-9 wrote: »

The poster evancostello said Collins was quoted as saying the phone call made no difference to the investigation, not that it didn't take place.

Clarification will be needed by the video makers on this definitely.

https://sendvid.com/fg8c71z4 copyright gemma o doherty acknowledged

oranbhoy67

evancostello wrote: »

mmmm check out the front page of the Donegal Post . Looks like the documentary is in unravelloing mode.

Can you link this please * its ok found it*


There was and there remains a cover up into the disappearance of young Mary Boyle in 1977, but there was neither political nor state interference, a lead investigator at the time has clarified this week.

He believed that the 'cover up' relates to an individual or individual, who may have vital information in helping resolve the near 40-year-old mystery

It follows on from a YouTube documentary which was released on social media about the case and featured an interview with the retired Sergeant.

The documentary alleged that political interference may have resulted in which way the initial investigation was carried out.

In an exclusive interview with the Donegal Post, retired Sergeant Martin Collins said that any suggestion that senior members of the force that he worked with in Ballyshannon, had influenced the direction of the original missing persons investigation were totally erroneous.

He was equally 100% adamant that NO political interference came about, despite an alleged call by a politician to Ballyshannon garda station.

None of the investigation team were subjected to any senior Garda or other outside influence or persuasion into the way they themselves were conducting their investigation, he added.

He said that phone call comments emanated from the hearsay of a station orderly, who would not have even been an investigating officer into the Mary Boyle case.

“That phone call had nothing whatsoever to do with the investigation that was going on at that time or subsequently. It was never ever mentioned again,” he said.

He said that most of the men involved in that original investigation were married and had children in and around the same age as Mary.

Even in that context alone, they were deeply connected to the tragedy and any suggestion that there was a cover up by Gardai, of any rank, was simply not true. On this, he was emphatic.

Read more in this week's Donegal Post: