Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

jonski

kbannon wrote: »

So what does the article say?

Well it didn't make the front page so it's clearly not as big as Nevin Maguires kitchen worker .

frag420

So it was Nevins kitchen worker?

jonski

frag420 wrote: »

So it was Nevins kitchen worker?

How did you come to that conclusion ?

frag420

jonski wrote: »

How did you come to that conclusion ?

I didn’t, it was sarcasm!

Joeseph Balls

jonski wrote: »

How did you come to that conclusion ?

Whooosh

jonski

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Whooosh

Definitely , in my defence , it was early , I was young , I needed the money ....

Joeseph Balls

I'm after going through the Sunday world trice and can't find anything.

curlymo

Bought this paper for the 1st time in decades to read New info, WHAT/Where IS THE STORY???

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

I'm after going through the Sunday world trice and can't find anything.

oranbhoy67

Sorry guys I'm an insomniac as you may see from the time I put some posts on here, I'll just post here the same explanation I posted on the campaigns Facebook page

We aren't sure just yet why the Sunday World did not run today's story, but the journalist did file the story to be run in today's paper. She was under the understanding that it was to be printed today. There may have been an issue with space in the paper as some of the important details of the development came very late on Friday night/Saturday morning. We aren't sure yet.

What we can tell you regarding the major development in Mary's case is that two men have come forward to say that they found a child's cardigan matching the one that Mary was wearing on the day she went missing.
The men found the cardigan the day after Mary went missing. It was found close to Lough Colmcille and about half a mile away from where Mary was last seen. Local gardai on the scene were alerted to where the cardigan was by these men. The gards then took it away.
Now this is important to us as first and foremostly gardai never told Mary's family that there was any clothing found during the searches. As far as the family were concerned 'no trace' of Mary has ever been found.
Why did the gardai not come to Mary's family and tell them about this significant find? Surely the gardai would need to check with Mary's family to find out whether this cardigan belonged to her or not?

We have made contact with the men, who kindly come forward to us, and who are going to be speaking with gardai this week.
We want to know exactly why this piece of information was withheld and where this piece of clothing is now.

jonski

Addilynn Wooden Saloon wrote: »

https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2017/11/boiling-over/

I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on this link , both myself and herself read it and while we weren't overly surprised with the content, we were surprised to see it in print .

tayto lover

jonski wrote: »

I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on this link , both myself and herself read it and while we weren't overly surprised with the content, we were surprised to see it in print .

Nobody will act or comment about hearsay, innuendo and supposition.
There is feck all fact in the story.

Creol1

The development re the cardigan is interesting, but while there are questions for the Gardaí (if true), there are surely also questions as to why these individuals did not come forward for 40 years -- have they given any indication? It also wasn't mentioned by the two Gardaí who have broken ranks and spoken out about the case.

If the cardigan was Mary's, why was it left lying around seeing as she was almost certainly murdered? To give a false lead, perhaps.

It seems to raise more questions than answers.

jonski

tayto lover wrote:

Nobody will act or comment about hearsay, innuendo and supposition. There is feck all fact in the story.

While I didn't expect to see any discussion about it in mainstream media I did expect to see comments here . Was no one else here a bit shocked after reading the whole article ? There was feck all evidence in the story but I have no way of knowing if any of it was factual .

tayto lover

jonski wrote: »

While I didn't expect to see any discussion about it in mainstream media I did expect to see comments here . Was no one else here a bit shocked after reading the whole article ? There was feck all evidence in the story but I have no way of knowing if any of it was factual .

A lot of the stories seem to lack foundation and credibility. I'm sure a lot of the stuff was checked out and found to be non-factual.
Not a word in the articles about the search dogs and the trail they were following ending where the uncle's car was parked. That speaks volumes.

by8auj6csd3ioq

While I didn't expect to see any discussion about it in mainstream media I did expect to see comments here . Was no one else here a bit shocked after reading the whole article

my thinking was they will get sued for defamation. maybe gemma is relying on sections of the film not broadcast to back up claims. The obit of McEniff referred to is damning too but since he is dead maybe no defamation

by8auj6csd3ioq

The development re the cardigan is interesting, but while there are questions for the Gardaí (if true), there are surely also questions as to why these individuals did not come forward for 40 years -- have they given any indication? It also wasn't mentioned by the two Gardaí who have broken ranks and spoken out about the case.

good question as to why to two men did not come forward 40 years ago. maybe the two rank breaking gardai say it on non broadcast parts of teh film. i would imagine/hope there is a lot more to the film than was broadcast

by8auj6csd3ioq

nothing from gemma about it.....

oranbhoy67

Addilynn Wooden Saloon wrote: »

nothing from gemma about it.....

Gemma was contacted by one of these men last year

she decided to not take it further or make it public and didn't inform me of it or others who are campaigning for justice

I still share her posts/articles/videos for the sake of Mary and have chatted to her amicably on 2 occasions in the past few months so I am disappointed she never mentioned this to me

It was actually a real effort to track these men down and we only did so on Friday night which is what Probably cause the late submission and thus non-publication in today's paper

oranbhoy67

tayto lover wrote: »

Nobody will act or comment about hearsay, innuendo and supposition.
There is feck all fact in the story.

which is why Mainstream media won't carry stories like this

there is no mainstream media blackout of Marys case as is claimed ( I have made this mistake too), when the MM get substantial information they publish it , it was just unfortunate what happened today

tayto lover

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Gemma was contacted by one of these men last year

she decided to not take it further or make it public and didn't inform me of it or others who are campaigning for justice

I still share her posts/articles/videos for the sake of Mary and have chatted to her amicably on 2 occasions in the past few months so I am disappointed she never mentioned this to me

It was actually a real effort to track these men down and we only did so on Friday night which is what Probably cause the late submission and thus non-publication in today's paper

Any harm to ask where the cardigan was found?
Was it close to where she went missing or thrown away at a different location as a decoy?

by8auj6csd3ioq

@oranbhoy67  where are the  the men, are they in Ireland?

In relation to the gardai telling the truth about the cardigan, even the two gardai on the film have two different versions of their truth. Was it ever established why they went back on claims made in the film?
The fact gemma did not mention the cardigan men  means she is not worried about MB, just her control of her career

oranbhoy67

tayto lover wrote: »

Any harm to ask where the cardigan was found?
Was it close to where she went missing or thrown away at a different location as a decoy?

it was found at the lough nearby, the same lough that Marys uncle Gerry immediately ran to ( or drove to depending on what account you read) and Marys mother drove to as well, they met each other at the lough and shouted acrossthe water to each other to call the gards, and in the end it was 2 poachers on the lake who ended up rowing into ballyshannon and alerting the gards

It was found in this location the next day
and nothing was ever heard or mentioned about it again since

the official line was always that "not a trace was found"

oranbhoy67

Addilynn Wooden Saloon wrote: »

@oranbhoy67  where are the  the men, are they in Ireland?

In relation to the gardai telling the truth about the cardigan, even the two gardai on the film have two different versions of their truth. Was it ever established why they went back on claims made in the film?
The fact gemma did not mention the cardigan men  means she is not worried about MB, just her control of her career

agreed, one is still quite local , and one moved abroad, so he is the one who naturally is more comfortable in coming forward to the press I hope you dont mind but im not going to disclose where he is at this moment as Id rather other "journalists" don't speak to him before we get him in print, it is not that I have distrust of you, just that this is an open forum that anyone can read

both their stories are the exact same and the cardigan they mention describes exactly What Mary was wearing that day

Creol1

Addilynn Wooden Saloon wrote: »

my thinking was they will get sued for defamation. maybe gemma is relying on sections of the film not broadcast to back up claims. The obit of McEniff referred to is damning too but since he is dead maybe no defamation

By coincidence, other figures named such as Lord Mountbatten, Dom Murray, Charles Haughey and Hugh Tunney are also dead and therefore also unable to sue. What a coincidence.

In Seán McEniff's case, Gemma O'Doherty actually waited until he was dead before promptly naming him in relation to the alleged Garda cover-up. There's fearless journalism for you.

tayto lover

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

agreed, one is still quite local , and one moved abroad, so he is the one who naturally is more comfortable in coming forward to the press I hope you dont mind but im not going to disclose where he is at this moment as Id rather other "journalists" don't speak to him before we get him in print, it is not that I have distrust of you, just that this is an open forum that anyone can read

both their stories are the exact same and the cardigan they mention describes exactly What Mary was wearing that day

I would like to see that lake dredged entirely.
If it was done already then it needs to be done thoroughly again as the body, if put in there, was missed the first time and it might be found this time.
I think it's something that should be done.

Creol1

Addilynn Wooden Saloon wrote: »

In relation to the gardai telling the truth about the cardigan, even the two gardai on the film have two different versions of their truth. Was it ever established why they went back on claims made in the film?

Pressure from their superiors (or former superiors) I imagine. Neither of them comes across as having much backbone; they are happy to complain about pressure they were under at the time not to interview certain people, etc., but they don't seem to have done very much to stand up to their superiors.

According to O'Doherty, neither of the retired Guards asked her to correct the record or amend the film.

by8auj6csd3ioq

@oranbhoy67 said I hope you dont mind but im not going to disclose where he is at this moment as Id rather other "journalists" don't speak to him before we get him in print,

no problem

by8auj6csd3ioq

By coincidence, other figures named such as Lord Mountbatten, Dom Murray, Charles Haughey and Hugh Tunney are also dead and therefore also unable to sue. What a coincidence.

In Seán McEniff's case, Gemma O'Doherty actually waited until he was dead before promptly naming him in relation to the alleged Garda cover-up. There's fearless journalism for you.

i agree but the point i was making is the suspect is not dead and i think she made some claims about others in Mary's family too. i have not the article open now. I was wondering if village are hoping for a defamation case as evidence given would then be in the public domain i think. maybe they just want the publicity it is the mag that would get sued not her. or maybe she would rely on unshown footage to back up her claim.

oranbhoy67

Creol1 wrote: »

Pressure from their superiors (or former superiors) I imagine. Neither of them comes across as having much backbone; they are happy to complain about pressure they were under at the time not to interview certain people, etc., but they don't seem to have done very much to stand up to their superiors.

According to O'Doherty, neither of the retired Guards asked her to correct the record or amend the film.

I have to add in here the reason I believe that the 2 ex gards fell out with Gemma and distanced themselves from her after the documentary is because of how she portrayed their superior Dom Murray
I can understand he was their friend and colleague but she had to include his participation imo

and in fairness to her, she has supplied footage since that backs up what the same ex-gards told her about McEniff

oranbhoy67

Article in today's star about latest developments and the mirror have lifted it and put an abridged version on their website

dense

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Article in today's star about latest developments and the mirror have lifted it and put an abridged version on their website

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/gardai-launch-new-probe-mary-11599714

dense

Creol1 wrote: »

Pressure from their superiors (or former superiors) I imagine. Neither of them comes across as having much backbone; they are happy to complain about pressure they were under at the time not to interview certain people, etc., but they don't seem to have done very much to stand up to their superiors.

Yes,
The "culture" of the Gardai at the time would have prevented them from stepping out of line, no one to complain to or air their grievances to without fear of being seen as being upstarts.

Or should that be the "cult" of the Gardai... Same thing isn't it. Now and then.

They appeared to want to help, but not too much.
Hence the later public washing of their hands of what they'd said in the video.

They seem to be conflicted by various interests, a sense of not wanting to betray the force being one. Old habits die hard unfortunately.

dense

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

I have to add in here the reason I believe that the 2 ex gards fell out with Gemma and distanced themselves from her after the documentary is because of how she portrayed their superior Dom Murray
I can understand he was their friend and colleague but she had to include his participation imo

and in fairness to her, she has supplied footage since that backs up what the same ex-gards told her about McEniff

I wouldn't agree, I think they didn't realise the importance of what they were saying and how the public was going to react to their "revelations": the suspect was within an inch but "something" happened to stifle the investigation.
And stifle it it did.

DM had already been portrayed in a poor light in the RTE documentary broadcast years beforehand.

Esel

Standing up like Maurice McCabe? In Donegal 40 years ago? Just saying...

oranbhoy67

dense wrote: »

I wouldn't agree, I think they didn't realise the importance of what they were saying and how the public was going to react to their "revelations": the suspect was within an inch but "something" happened to stifle the investigation.
And stifle it it did.

DM had already been portrayed in a poor light in the RTE documentary broadcast years beforehand.

They took no part in that particular documentary though

mikeymouse

I hope to God this doesn't turn out to be another 'red beetle' story!!!

by8auj6csd3ioq

Article in today's star about latest developments

what page? i looked through star and did not see it

tayto lover

Surely the first thing any garda would have done is asked Mary's mother to identify the cardigan?? Does she remember that happening?
If it was found close to or in the lake surely the mother would also have remembered that she had seen the uncle close to that scene also?

There was something very fishy (no pun intended) going on in that family imo.

oranbhoy67

Addilynn Wooden Saloon wrote: »

Article in today's star about latest developments

what page? i looked through star and did not see it

If you check justice for Mary Boyle on Facebook you will see the article there

by8auj6csd3ioq

Surely the first thing any garda would have done is asked Mary's mother to identify the cardigan?? Does she remember that happening?
If it was found close to or in the lake surely the mother would also have remembered that she had seen the uncle close to that scene also?

There was something very fishy (no pun intended) going on in that family imo.

Didn't she see him across the lake and called to him to call the garda. Or was it he who told her call them? Isn't that the same lake?

Creol1

Addilynn Wooden Saloon wrote: »

Didn't she see him across the lake and called to him to call the garda. Or was it he who told her call them? Isn't that the same lake?

I think they had an argument at the lake over who should go to the Guards and in the end the anglers at the lake went? They couldn't actually call the Guards because there was no landline in the house.

by8auj6csd3ioq

I think they had an argument at the lake over who should go to the Guards and in the end the anglers at the lake went?

That is right so she would have seen him at the lake

Anyone see the Star

mikeymouse

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

it was found at the lough nearby, the same lough that Marys uncle Gerry immediately ran to ( or drove to depending on what account you read) and Marys mother drove to as well, they met each other at the lough and shouted acrossthe water to each other to call the gards, and in the end it was 2 poachers on the lake who ended up rowing into ballyshannon and alerting the gards

It was found in this location the next day
and nothing was ever heard or mentioned about it again since

the official line was always that "not a trace was found"

So there was at least one car at the lake.possibly two. and yet it was the fishermen (who were fishing illegally and would be in no rush to get guards involved) who went .
Was this to get the fishermen out of the way?
I don't think you can row a boat into Ballyshannon from that lake .

clfy39tzve8njq

mikeymouse wrote:

I don't think you can row a boat into Ballyshannon from that lake .

Don't think you can either but open to correction. Hope I'm wrong but I'm not sure the new information about the cardigan will bring this to an end. Do the two lads know who they handed over the cardigan to.

by8auj6csd3ioq

Article in today's star about latest developments and the mirror have lifted it and put an abridged version on their website

Is that the sunday world story then, more or less or has the SW more?

oranbhoy67

Jaylah Grumpy Pile wrote: »

Don't think you can either but open to correction. Hope I'm wrong but I'm not sure the new information about the cardigan will bring this to an end. Do the two lads know who they handed over the cardigan to.

they dont know his name but said they could identify him if they saw him again, the story always was that they rowed into Ballyshannon , again something I will have to look at

by8auj6csd3ioq

This is Joe Craig's interview with Niall Boylan 12 mins 25MB can be downloaded for 30 days. Hope its OK to put here

https://uploadfiles.io/yua5j

oranbhoy67

Addilynn Wooden Saloon wrote: »

This is Joe Craig's interview with Niall Boylan 12 mins 25MB can be downloaded for 30 days. Hope its OK to put here

https://uploadfiles.io/yua5j

it is, of course, thank you very much for that

The radio station told me there would be possible delays in having the podcast version of it up as they had been having technical difficulties all day

but here is the live Facebook stream link as it happened


https://www.facebook.com/NiallBoylanAtNight/videos/vb.131193550289985/1598093503599975/?type=2&theater

oranbhoy67

Addilynn Wooden Saloon wrote: »

Is that the sunday world story then, more or less or has the SW more?

it is my belief that there will be more in the SW this weekend but I have learned my lesson from last week not to go promising due to the way the newspaper industry has to fit in breaking news etc and sometimes other stories fall by the wayside

oranbhoy67

mikeymouse wrote: »

So there was at least one car at the lake.possibly two. and yet it was the fishermen (who were fishing illegally and would be in no rush to get guards involved) who went .
Was this to get the fishermen out of the way?
I don't think you can row a boat into Ballyshannon from that lake .

there was one car at the lake ( assuming the fishermen didnt have one)

and also one at the home Mary left from!

as for the second part, it is something I have wondered myself