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Acting as Agent for Landlord

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  • 21-05-2013 5:38pm
    #1
    Dara Robinson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭


    So, like so many other people around, my folks have an apartment in negative equity. They were forced to leave the country to find work and, as we cant sell the apartment, we are forced to rent it. And I am acting as the agent.
    In case anyone asks or its important, I am acting as the agent legally and have a signed letter from both saying that I am acting on their behalf in all matters relating to the property.

    So my question, a new lease is coming up and new tenants and last year having the leases mailed back and forth was a royal pain in the ass. Is there any way that I could sign it for them on their behalf? I'm thinking no but no harm in asking I figured :)

    Cheers in advance


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    #2
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    How about recommending they stay on Part 4 so no new lease is required?


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    #3
    Dara Robinson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Dara Robinson


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    How about recommending they stay on Part 4 so no new lease is required?

    Nope. Seeing as my interests lie with the Property and protection of the Landlords I would not want that at all. I have very carefully written a lease specific to the apartment and to avoid problems we have had in the past with generic leases.


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    #4
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Isn't the tenant entitled to Pt 4 anyway after 6 months??


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    #5
    Dara Robinson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Dara Robinson


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    Isn't the tenant entitled to Pt 4 anyway after 6 months??

    Not if they have signed a lease that is in effect. How has this devolved into a Part 4 lease discussion?

    Does anyone know about the original question?


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    #6
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    Actually the tenant gains part 4 tenancy rights after 6 months. They cannot sign away any rights so any lease signed will just enhance their rights. They should notify the LL by writing that they intend to take up Pt 4 tenancy but if they don't they will only owe comp for any loss of money due to re-letting.


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    #7
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    As to answer your original question, check my later post. I've had a brain fart this evening.


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    #8
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    OP, you cannot say someone was forced to leave the country - were they exiled by court order from the State?
    or forced to lease out their property - can you clarify this, did it involve a loaded weapon?


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    #9
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    Pretty sure when they forced, they mean that they made a choice due to the recession and prob being unable to find work so left the country for work. Bank probably wouldn't let them sell or change terms of mortgage or some such. I do think that if the op is going to act as an agent, that he take some time to sit down and actually research what he can and cannot do. He seems to think signing a new lease prevents PT. IV Tenancy rights.


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    #10
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    OP your best bet surely would be to draw up the lease, get the tenant to sign two copies of (once they agree to the terms), then send both copies to your parents, get them to sign them and send one back to the tenant. Its hardly a lot of effort?

    I wouldnt advise anyone (tenant or landlord) to start out a tenancy with no lease. Part 4 rights do no come into effect until the tenant has been in the tenancy for 6 months, but until that point it offers neither party any security whatsoever. At the very minimum you would want a 6 month lease in place.

    Have you had someone check over your lease to ensure that it complies with tenancy law? The generic lease tends to just reword the various clauses of the tenancy act, but if you have anything in the the lease that seeks to remove rights from the tenant as laid out in the tenancy act then it has no legal standing whatsoever, even if the tenant signs to agree to it. The rights laid out to the tenant in the tenancy act are the absolute minimum rights that they always have, and nothing can be written, signed or otherwise to change that.


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    #11
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    you cant sign it on their behalf.

    Off topic but mentioned in this thread you cant make the tenant sign a new lese either. They are entitled to part 4 cover if there over 6 months and they are under no obligation to sign a new lease but I think that's irrelevant as I get the impression these are new tenants anyway.


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    #12
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    He said in the first post that they are new tenants.


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    #13
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    An agent is a person who has the authority to bind (i.e. form contracts) on behalf of another person - referred to as a principal. Provided you are properly authorised, there is no need to involve your parents int he act of signing the documents. Whether the tenant accepts this or seeks proof of your authority is another matter. Simply drafting up a limited power of attorney would be within the competence of most solicitors - frankly it should be within the ability of most educated humans.

    As regard the part 4 position, your carefully drafted lease will only serve to add to the rights of the tenants, there are certain rights which accrue under part 4 (including the right to continuing tenure and notice periods) which you cannot simply have them contract out of upfront.


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    #14
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    djimi wrote: »
    He said in the first post that they are new tenants.

    Doh!

    I missed that part. I thought he was renewing a lease with tenants after 12 months, thinking it would avoid pt iv rights.

    If you are acting as agent on behalf of your parents then your signature should suffice for the contract. You won't need the signature of your parents at all. Just have your own name and address down. Also ensure to have your parents names down as the owner but have yours as the agent and it should be fine.


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    #15
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,300 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    How computer literate are your parents? Scan the lease, email it to them, they print it out, sign it, scan it, and send it back.


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    #16
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    Even that way would be fine if he wanted to do it like that. If he's their agent tho, then they don't need to sign anything at all. One thing tho, if the OP is the agent and the owners are out of country, is the OP liable for the tax to be paid? Genuine question as I don't know the answer. Normally the tenant is supposed to hold back the tax and back the payment in this type of case I think. If someone could tell me if I'm way off or not, I'd appreciate it.


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    #17
    sunnysoutheast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭sunnysoutheast


    Yawns wrote: »
    Even that way would be fine if he wanted to do it like that. If he's their agent tho, then they don't need to sign anything at all. One thing tho, if the OP is the agent and the owners are out of country, is the OP liable for the tax to be paid? Genuine question as I don't know the answer. Normally the tenant is supposed to hold back the tax and back the payment in this type of case I think. If someone could tell me if I'm way off or not, I'd appreciate it.

    If the OP is acting as collection agent for the rents for a non-resident landlord he/she liable for making the return and accounting for the tax due. The arrangement has to be registered with Revenue.

    The alternative is for the tenant to have the 20% tax deducted at source and paid over to the Revenue via PAYE.

    The landlords then claim any allowances etc. via their tax return.


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    #18
    sunnysoutheast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭sunnysoutheast


    Dara Robinson wrote: »
    Nope. Seeing as my interests lie with the Property and protection of the Landlords I would not want that at all. I have very carefully written a lease specific to the apartment and to avoid problems we have had in the past with generic leases.

    Make sure it has a break clause at month 3 in it so that you're not lumbered with bad tenants under part 4.

    As others have said anything in the lease cannot take away any of the tenant's rights under the RTA so you can be as careful as you like it may do you no good.

    Also if the rent is being paid to a bank account controlled by your parents the tenant is legally required to withhold the 20% tax due - when you say "agent" I am not sure if you mean that you are acting as collection agent.


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