car theft recovery

greg007

Hi Guys Im Looking For Some Feed back / Advice

I was a victim of car crime last year when i paid over 6,000 euro for a bmw only to discover the next day it was a coloned car,
i returned it straight away to police and they returned it to owner,
i was down 6k,
i set about trying to recover my money from the people who sold me the car,
wasnt easy and eventually tracked him down and got my money but it took over 3 months to do,
anyway during my investigations trying to get my money i took note of a huge picture of what is going on with car crime,

after a long taught process i decieded to start a company to retrive stolen cars / machinery

to date this is where i am on it,

i have registered a company with the CRO
a web site is been made at the moment where i will be offering tips etc on how not to get conned in car crime and what to look out for and also for people to submit there motors if stolen to the site and in return it will be posted once confirmed as been stolen,and all this will be free,

i already have a 10,000 sq ft storage unit,
ive bought a recovery truck
set up a bank account

ive went and had some meeting with the head of the car crime task force in harcourt street to tell them what my plans where and they are fully behind me and what i plan to do and most important is im not breaking any laws,
they gave me some other connections to look into etc,like barry hannock who runs simlar operation in uk and recovers cars in many parts of the world,i rang barry for some advice and have to say he is a pleasure to deal with with,
ive also applied to IAATI {international association of auto theft investagators} and am awaiting for my membership,
ive rang and emailed all the top insurance companys to tell them about my company and what we are about,and to date have not got 1 single reply.

while out recovery a machine last week for a private person i got an eye ball on 3 cars,
2 of the cars i discreetly took down there reg numbers and insurance disc info,
the 3rd car had no reg numbers or insurance disc in window but could tell it was a fairly new motor 2010 upwards so i took note of the vin number,

the next day i rang 2 different insurance companys to enquire about the cars and they both CONFIRMED that the motors where infact stolen and they were looking for them,
i then told them who my company was and that we retrive stolen motors etc,
i then gave them a price for my services to retrive the stolen cars,
the price was very small ie 1 car was worth a realistic price of about 7k and was only costing 7/800 euro to retrieve it from these scum bags but yet they said oh we will have to ring you back bla bla bla

i aint heard a word from them,
surely this would save the insurance comapny money,

i know its the police job to find these cars but lets face it theres only so much they can do,
and yes its not right to be paying touts for info on where motors are located but the facts is police have been paying touts for years,

im asking you guys for feed back on this type of buisness venture and what you think i should do to move it forward,


another fact is no matter who offers this service or not the car thiefs in our country will continue to steal our cars etc and either sell to breaking yards or ship them abroad,

thanks for all and any feed back guys,

Bandara

Of course the insurance company didn't ring you back, you don't ring up AXA or whoever and say do you want these cars back, I'll get them for you for €700 each.

You need to go through the correct channels and meet with the relevant people in the insurance companies. I can't see them having an interest to be honest. Their first thought will be that people are going to start stealing cars knowing they can make €700 to give them back the next day. They allow for their costs in their premiums.

I'd drop all the 'scumbag' talk as well, its a business your running, it reflects badly on you.

Good luck with it.

greg007

The thing is hammer, ive rang a number of times to each insurance company,and each of them say
that we must email the recovery team of the insurance companys,thay cannot be contacted by phone as they dont take calls from any one,
i have sent 4 or 5 emails to each insurance company as requested over the last couple of months and have not got 1 single reply,
i find this bizzar, they have probaly paid out 1000,s in claims since ive started to contact them,
ive just got off the phone to an insurance company now only to be told to email them again lol,how many emails will it take just to be able to talk to the right person and put my plan / service across to them and see what they think,

Cianos

Even though they can logically see the benefit in the service you offer, I'd imagine it is just way outside their usual protocols to even consider. I don't know much about the industry but I presume there are very stringent processes that they have to follow, and anything outside that nobody will want to touch with a barge pole regardless of the savings that can be made.

You might be best sitting down with an insurance consultant and going through this with them, maybe they can advise on a more formal/official route you can follow.

+1 on dropping the scumbag talk, it comes across as unprofessional. If you see an opportunity and you're operating above the law, there's no need to defend your position and explain yourself relative to the thieves.

greg007

i under stand the protocol id say they have to follow but why cant they look at things in a realistic way and save the country money,

ive had 1 call from an insurance company and we had a chat on the phone and he gave me hints and tips of what type of proposal email to send them and they will have another look at it,

on another note i have edited my post above and taken the scumbag words out of it lol thanks to your advice,

yes its dont look good using them words but been a victim at 1 point and hitting brick walls with insurance companys makes ye some what annoyed and fustrated at the lack of replys from them,sorry again if it came across the wrong way..

listermint

Speak to Barry again in the UK, perhaps he can source contacts in the UK parent companys gaining you contacts within their Irish subsidiaries.

You need to network more to get to the right decision makers. Attend insurance industry seminars and fleet industry seminars anything to do with transport. There are many throughout the country.

Utilise linkedin to get information on the right people to be speaking with. Perhaps look at the http://www.mibi.ie/ these guys are constantly looking at ways to minimise costs and they could give you the right contacts. But as stated above it has to be done 'the right way' and professionally.


best of luck OP

ironclaw

Can I ask, are you simply recovering the cars and storing them? Or do you find out where a car is and literally roll up 'Dog the Bounty Hunter' style and take it?

Also how do you confirm a car is stolen?

I'm just trying to differentiate what is different between your business and anyone else with a recovery truck? Or say a Repo business?

MidlandsM

OP. the insurance co's will have ZERO interest in your offerings, as when a car is stolen, and they pay out for it after 28 days, they're written it off......and that's it, the case is closed for them.

They'll not want to pay you, then have a stolen car on their hands that they'll get a pittance for in reality, as well as all the hassles and paperwork........clogging up their systems.

The idea is a non runner.

superb choice of username

I don't know if it's comparable, but there was a show on Channel 4 - 'The Repo Man'. Whilst they were dealing with finance companies, it's still the same premise - someone has a car, not paying for it and so keeping it illegitimately. So the company pays for recovery. The recover is sometimes time consuming - gathering intel on the person, doing 'stake outs' and risks violence etc.

He said that he can only get £200 per vehicle, and that there are plenty of other businesses charging £150. Therefore, the €700/800 may be a bit steep?

Ray Palmer

From an insurance point of view you could be the person who stole them. There is a well known scam of stealing things and then looking for a finders fee.

The legalities of knowing about a crime and not reporting it to the police while trying to profit from it also has to come up.

I think it is strange you would set-up a company and not work out an agreement with the insurance companies to make it viable. How they balance there books afterwards would be an issue. Technically they own the car after paying out on the claim. They then have to sell them. You could probably make money off that as part of the service.

I just wonder how long you could do it before the people dealing in these cars would spot you on sight or come after you later on. WE aren't talking about nice people here.

greg007

listermint wrote: »

Speak to Barry again in the UK, perhaps he can source contacts in the UK parent companys gaining you contacts within their Irish subsidiaries.

You need to network more to get to the right decision makers. Attend insurance industry seminars and fleet industry seminars anything to do with transport. There are many throughout the country.

Utilise linkedin to get information on the right people to be speaking with. Perhaps look at the http://www.mibi.ie/ these guys are constantly looking at ways to minimise costs and they could give you the right contacts. But as stated above it has to be done 'the right way' and professionally.


best of luck OP

Thanks for the advice and yes i will take this raod also and hopefully some thing will come out of it,i will update you if any thing real happens,
thanks again

greg007

ironclaw wrote: »

Can I ask, are you simply recovering the cars and storing them? Or do you find out where a car is and literally roll up 'Dog the Bounty Hunter' style and take it?

Also how do you confirm a car is stolen?

I'm just trying to differentiate what is different between your business and anyone else with a recovery truck? Or say a Repo business?

dog the bounty lol, if you watch that you will see from that ,that he also some times pays for info on the location of his target ,i will be working in simalar way,

i confirm the car is stolen by working closely with car crime squad in harcourt street and other police agents and was hoping the insurance companys would be able to fax / email a list of stolen cars on there books etc

greg007

MidlandsM wrote: »

OP. the insurance co's will have ZERO interest in your offerings, as when a car is stolen, and they pay out for it after 28 days, they're written it off......and that's it, the case is closed for them.

They'll not want to pay you, then have a stolen car on their hands that they'll get a pittance for in reality, as well as all the hassles and paperwork........clogging up their systems.

The idea is a non runner.

umm some what negative out look on the topic,
at end of the day we can save insurance and tax payers money while also keeping a company in buisness and off the dole que

greg007

superb choice of username wrote: »

I don't know if it's comparable, but there was a show on Channel 4 - 'The Repo Man'. Whilst they were dealing with finance companies, it's still the same premise - someone has a car, not paying for it and so keeping it illegitimately. So the company pays for recovery. The recover is sometimes time consuming - gathering intel on the person, doing 'stake outs' and risks violence etc.

He said that he can only get £200 per vehicle, and that there are plenty of other businesses charging £150. Therefore, the €700/800 may be a bit steep?

its not really compareable {i watch this also } as they go to peoples home adress etc to recover the motors and have been supplied with locations from the companys who want the motor back,
what we do is go looking for the motor via various tatics,we are not intrested in any indvidual person just the motor we are looking for,
they get £200 which is around €250 or so and they are told where the car is, €7/€800 is just a ball park figure and this fee covers
the investagition / finders fee / recovery fee / towing / storage etc and insurance only pay out on a sucessfull recovery,so if we dont recover it then we dont get paid no matter how long we are looking for it,

and yes we have encourted violance before on other recoverys,

greg007

Ray Palmer wrote: »

From an insurance point of view you could be the person who stole them. There is a well known scam of stealing things and then looking for a finders fee.

The legalities of knowing about a crime and not reporting it to the police while trying to profit from it also has to come up.

I think it is strange you would set-up a company and not work out an agreement with the insurance companies to make it viable. How they balance there books afterwards would be an issue. Technically they own the car after paying out on the claim. They then have to sell them. You could probably make money off that as part of the service.

I just wonder how long you could do it before the people dealing in these cars would spot you on sight or come after you later on. WE aren't talking about nice people here.

yes i under stand this type of thinking hence the reason why
we give the insurance a full account of our company / company details along with id accompanied by letters from police confirming we are ordinary decent people with no criminal records,

and again we know there is risk involved when dealing with these type of people especially when your dealing with highly organised crime gangs but every job has its risks and this is what we are paid for,

the reason why we set up the company for this 1st is because when you email / approach an insurance company its better to have things to show and offer them rather than say oh we are not set up but are thinking of it,
i think would look non professional on our behalf,

MidlandsM

greg007 wrote: »

umm some what negative out look on the topic,

its the truth, and its better to live in the real world. Just saying is all.

ifah

I find it hard to believe that An Garda Siochana will hand out details of stolen cars to you and encourage you retrieve them - have you gotten written confirmation from An Garda Siochana (probably someone at Superintendent level or higher) that they will be co-operating with you ?

Overall as a business it reads like a vigilante effort to me - what type of Prof Indemnity and Public Liability insurance do you need to carry ?

What happens if you get involved in an altercation ? You would most likely be trespassing somewhere you haven't been invited and may be liable for criminal charges ?

MidlandsM

ifah wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that An Garda Siochana will hand out details of stolen cars to you and encourage you retrieve them - have you gotten written confirmation from An Garda Siochana (probably someone at Superintendent level or higher) that they will be co-operating with you ?

Overall as a business it reads like a vigilante effort to me - what type of Prof Indemnity and Public Liability insurance do you need to carry ?

What happens if you get involved in an altercation ? You would most likely be trespassing somewhere you haven't been invited and may be liable for criminal charges ?

+1, data protection and all sorts of other regulation kicks in here.

greg007

ifah wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that An Garda Siochana will hand out details of stolen cars to you and encourage you retrieve them - have you gotten written confirmation from An Garda Siochana (probably someone at Superintendent level or higher) that they will be co-operating with you ?

Overall as a business it reads like a vigilante effort to me - what type of Prof Indemnity and Public Liability insurance do you need to carry ?

What happens if you get involved in an altercation ? You would most likely be trespassing somewhere you haven't been invited and may be liable for criminal charges ?

the gaurds dont give us information,they simply confirm if the car we give the reg of is stolen or not,
its defo not vigilante stuff as we dont to be getting into fights n hassles with any one,we just want to recover the motor,,we have garage motor insurance to cover the motors when there in our care and we have insurance on our unit to cover any damage that could be done while in there,
its against the law to go into any persons home place or even unit where they might have a stolen car,its then we ring the police and let them get it,
the motors we are looking to recover would have to be on a public road way in order for us to recover it,

Peterdalkey

Having read through the thread a couple of times, while there is nothing wrong with the basic idea, it does strike me that you have credibility issues with the insurance companies and with most of the posters on here. I would make the following suggestions, which may well help you get it moving. You have already demonstrated that you are willing to listen and take some advice with the scumbag issue!

As this business does require a great degree of trust and perceived integrity, you need to work on these issues. Consider setting up a high quality website, get Garda vetting/clearance for all employees and an insurance fidelity bond to give greater credibility. Highlight these on your website and in written communications with potential clients. You may also wish to hire someone to write up sample letters for you, as the professional touch will add a greater professional image to your business. Remember the people you are selling to are genteel office bound folk who may not have a similar view of the world to yourself.
I think you may also find there is a good market in Hire Purchase/Leasing companies who need to recover plant or vehicles from delinquent debtors.

It might also be an idea to offer a sale/disposal side to your business, where you could buy the items and resell them or just sell them on to traders on behalf of the insurance companies.

You have some decent money already invested and I think the business idea is sound. It just needs to be marketed in a more professional manner. I am quite sure the office guys have no interest in knowing the down and dirty side of how you get your results. That is your business and just keep it to yourself!

Best of luck with it.

Peter

greg007

Peterdalkey wrote: »

Having read through the thread a couple of times, while there is nothing wrong with the basic idea, it does strike me that you have credibility issues with the insurance companies and with most of the posters on here. I would make the following suggestions, which may well help you get it moving. You have already demonstrated that you are willing to listen and take some advice with the scumbag issue!

As this business does require a great degree of trust and perceived integrity, you need to work on these issues. Consider setting up a high quality website, get Garda vetting/clearance for all employees and an insurance fidelity bond to give greater credibility. Highlight these on your website and in written communications with potential clients. You may also wish to hire someone to write up sample letters for you, as the professional touch will add a greater professional image to your business. Remember the people you are selling to are genteel office bound folk who may not have a similar view of the world to yourself.
I think you may also find there is a good market in Hire Purchase/Leasing companies who need to recover plant or vehicles from delinquent debtors.

It might also be an idea to offer a sale/disposal side to your business, where you could buy the items and resell them or just sell them on to traders on behalf of the insurance companies.

You have some decent money already invested and I think the business idea is sound. It just needs to be marketed in a more professional manner. I am quite sure the office guys have no interest in knowing the down and dirty side of how you get your results. That is your business and just keep it to yourself!

Best of luck with it.

Peter

excellent reply and thanks for the advice,
a web site is been done as we speak cartheftireland.ie and we will be offering advice / tips etc on motor security and how not to get caught buying a cloned car like i did, we will also be allowing people to submitt to us details of there car if its been stolen and we will confirm this and then post it online for people to see,this will be all free of charge to the public,
garda vetting etc is been looked into,
regarding offering these cars for sale on behalf of the insurance is another avenue we will be doing once we get in with them but main goal is to recover the motor quickly so the owner can have it back and this will save money / stress all round,

recovering for finance companys etc we do / have done and are no strangers to that,

yes i have invested a fair amount of money in setting this up to date and want to see it through,
hopefully we can get going soon,

again thanks for advice and tips in your reply,

smash

How do you manage to eyeball 3 cars off the cuff and find out they're ALL stolen?

Being honest, it doesn't really sound like a valid business but more so a scam system as it could so easily be abused!

smash

Also, cartheftireland.ie doesn't jump out to me as being a recovery service. It sounds like an advice service for stealing cars

Mr.Fred

I can't imagine An Garda Siochana supporting this and I doubt any insurance company would be interested.

A headline in the paper of man gets shot while trying to recover stolen car on behalf of AXA or whomever would not be the kind of advertising they'd be interested in.

At the very least you're putting yourself in harms way in your methods of recovery not ot mention the potential for law suits defamation of character, trespassing. etc

I think you're flirting with vigilantism. Just go into the recovery/repossession business.

MidlandsM

its a non runner, all insurance co's have their own investigation staff to work on cases...

RATM

Its a good idea and easy to see how it could save the insurance companies hundreds of thousands per year and increase their profits substantially. Even if a stolen car fetched 50% of its pre-stolen price it would be better than them writing the entire cost off. The service you offer definitely stacks up on the financial side but you need get that point across to a decision maker in an insurance company. If you get one of them on board and prove yourself over time then the rest will follow.

But where I think there may be trouble for you is on the legal side. The notion of recovering stolen property from a public place is one thing but entering someone's private property to recover a car is entirely another thing and it could see you on the end of a legal claim. So my guess is that in order to recover a car you're going to have to wait for the thief to drive it out somewhere. That could be a really long game of cat and mouse you're playing.

You've also got to think that a lot of the time you might be recovering stolen vehicles from people (like yourself) who got sold a stolen car. If you politely ring their bell and explain they're going to have a hard time believing it and will want to call the local Gardai.

ironclaw

Two biggest risks for this put it in the 'non runner' category for me anyway:

1) Your dealing with car thieves. People who are probably willing to break and enter a house to steal a car. The financial gain of dealing with people like that wouldn't make it worth it for me. People have been killed for less in this country. No matter how good someone is at 'handling themselves' We forget that not everyone places value on life. You have to think about yourself, your staff and their families.

2) Your dealing with stolen property. You'd want a fairly substantial bond and agreement with the law side of things so you yourself can't be done for having 'hot' property in your possession. You'd also want a very secure warehouse (Considering an army barracks can't stop a group reclaiming a fuel truck)

If you really wanted to get into this business, I'd make a living repo-ing cars from credit defaulters. Probably the same amount of work if not more (Most stolen cars in this country never resurface)

aman23

great idea! steal car today, get insurance company to pay you tomorrow.

Peterdalkey

Plenty of negative comment and naysayers on here on this topic. It appears to me that you have sought to model your business on your English pal's model and we have very similar legal and business modus operandi to them.
Perhaps you need to examine more closely how he is doing his business in the UK and model more directly on his formula/methodology. If it works over there, it is likely to work here.

Mr.Fred

Peterdalkey wrote: »

Plenty of negative comment and naysayers on here on this topic. It appears to me that you have sought to model your business on your English pal's model and we have very similar legal and business modus operandi to them.
Perhaps you need to examine more closely how he is doing his business in the UK and model more directly on his formula/methodology. If it works over there, it is likely to work here.

You'd have to allow for Population and number of cars/thefts in England compared to Ireland, a far smaller country with a lower number of cars being stolen.

Cianos

Mr.Fred wrote: »

You'd have to allow for Population and number of cars/thefts in England compared to Ireland, a far smaller country with a lower number of cars being stolen.

But probably more competition in the UK too. If OP is the only one doing it, his market might be smaller but it'd be all his.