Preview Thread -RaboDirect Pro12 Final - RDS, 25th May, 1645 - live on RTE2/TG4/BBCNI

.ak

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Well done Leinster. You always need some luck to win a trophy. Ulster fans and players must be sick.

The bitter, negative comments throughout the thread are uncalled and haven't gone unnoticed. Infracted.

.ak

Absolutely cracking game. Best at atmosphere I've ever witnessed in the RDS. Fair play to the league for arranging the seating like they did, was great to have both sets of fans trying got out sing each other way before kick off. Immense atmosphere.

I thought Leinster were the dominant team for the entire game, but ever really far enough ahead to put themselves at ease. Credit to ulster, they really put it up to Leinster, especially off their set pieces. The speed of which they operated for the Diack !try was something else.

Definition of an absolute cracker of a game, don't know what some people were smoking when they said it wasn't a good game! Ulster were within range always, Leinster never pulled away, and really it was only Leinsters pedigree that won it n the end.

Credit to Ulsters fans tho! Really brought out the best in the Leinster crowd. Butter ulster guys are such great sports. Ignore the booing over kicks... Really didn't bother me at all. Doubt it bothered Jonny either, sure he'll have to get used to that next year! I thought it was a bit of pantomime. Defo wouldn't be getting precious over it.

I thi k the ulster fans were going to react like that after Lacey blew them off the park in the first quarter, rightly or wrongly.

I was at the game, so don't have video to analyse Lacey's performance, but going into this game I thought I'd be happy with him, he's one of my favourite refs. I thought he had a good game from the stands, sure a few things were harsh on ulster but so were so e of the calls on Leinster in the 2nd half, especially at the breakdown. I think a lot of people will focus on that scrum. But all over he was quite good. Thought both yellows were a bit harsh, but I'd need to see them again.

Best moment of the day was the celebrations at the end. Especially when sexton had the trophy, really saw how much it meant to him, and when the crowd started chanting 'johnny, Jonny' he was loving it. Gas.

End of an era, ended with a triple of trophies, what a season....

Eagerly looking forward to next season and a new era!

Teferi

I really think Dev Toner had a bit of a mixed bag of a game. Lacking that bit of dog is really hindering him to be honest.

Healy was getting absolutely minced in the scrums in the first half. Sort of straightened it out in the second but I'm unsure if that is down to Afoa tiring or what. Healy was good with ball in hand taking it into contact but made some awful attempts at offloads. He was also making some strange moves in defence.

The ref also had a mixed bag of a game. He made an equal amount of bad calls for both sides.

I reckon our backrow deserved the MotM award as a unit.

I am devastated this is the only home game I've missed this year.

irishbucsfan

According to Paul Wallace and Jiffy it was Devin Toner's best game of his career and he should have gotten MOTM. I thought he was very good as well tbh

Definitely think our scrum is noticeably weaker when him and Cullen play together though for some reason.

Edit: Teferi, I'd imagine Healy getting minced in the scrums could be related to who was driving behind Afoa in comparison to who was driving behind Healy!

Swiwi

Ok, a few half-sloshed thoughts

1) Ulster, you cant win big matches if you donate penalties to the opposition
2) Leinster, I'm not sure Madigan is a 12
3) Ulster, despite what the lads in the North Stand say, you didn't lose the match because of the "farkan rafaray"

Teferi

Swiwi wrote: »

2) Leinster, I'm not sure Madigan is a 12

I'm sure we'll be mainly seeing him at 10 next year, fairly certain the Mads at 12 experiment was just to give him as much big game experience as possible alongside Sexton and BOD before they left.

Irlandczyk

Teferi wrote: »

I'm sure we'll be mainly seeing him at 10 next year, fairly certain the Mads at 12 experiment was just to give him as much big game experience as possible alongside Sexton and BOD before they left.

Please God! He's not a 12 or a 15, but I'm sure he'll be a damn good 10. Sure, he even played at 9 for a while against France, did he not? He's been in 9, 10, 12, and 15 now... He needs a crack at 11 or 14 now and that'll be that! :pac:

CatFromHue

Nah he's not a 12, he didn't offer much from there today.

Just rewatched the Diack yellow there, he actually puts one knee on the ground before he engages in the ruck. Bizarre!

Tox56

Leinster to lay their Rabo final hoodoo to rest?

Madigan isn't a 12 but he's also knackered, looked a bit jaded at times today especially in his decision making, gave it everything though. Hope he doesn't play both games in the summer tour although with his versatility I expect he will

Irlandczyk

CatFromHue wrote: »

Nah he's not a 12, he didn't offer much from there today.

Just rewatched the Diack yellow there, he actually puts one knee on the ground before he engages in the ruck. Bizarre!

Almost forgot about that. Jamie Hagan stole the show with his lovely dolphin dive.

pc7

Just home for what is one of the best rugby days I can remember,l for some time maybe with Isa,Johnny and Joe leaving I don't know but that was a special day! Smashing stuff

errlloyd

I hope ulster fans left the RDS today feeling that Leinster fans really respected their team andtheir fans. I did, I know my group did. We all knew that game could go either way. I rremember with another provincial rivalry back in the day there was always a perception that perhaps mutual respect didn't exist.

Swiwi

pc7 wrote: »

Just home for what is one of the best rugby days I can remember

Well that's a plus. The Ulster & subsequently Leinster fans I met up with were very generous with the pints...cheers lads!

bilston

Leinster to lay their Rabo final hoodoo to rest?

Talking of 12 I was really impressed by Olding...again...a couple of nice runs but defensively he was superb, he looked right at home.

I hope he gets a start there in the US and Canada.

Coburger

Leinster to lay their Rabo final hoodoo to rest?

leakyboots wrote: »

Ryle Nugest is nauseating

Couldn't agree more. Donal himself is pretty poor. I'm a Leinster fan but he is so in favour of them I find - they can't seem to do no wrong. He was going on about how great BOD is in defense (which he generally is) when he missed two tackles in a Ulster move.

I turned to watch it on TG4 but the picture quality was too poor that it was back to Ryle and Donal.

neilmulvey

.ak wrote: »

I thi k the ulster fans were going to react like that after Lacey blew them off the park in the first quarter, rightly or wrongly.

Lacey had a decent game but got a few decisions wrong. The first scrums near Leinster line he gave Ulster a penalty when Court had his elbow an inch from the ground, then Ulster went for the scum and he allowed Boss tackle Williams even tho the ball wasnt out.

He gave Ulster an official warning then didnt act on it when they continued to give away peno's at the breakdown. One in particular was a yellow regardless of the warning when Boss was about to pass the ball and Henry kicked the ball when lying on the ground at the base of a ruck.

Completely missed the Afoa/Healy incident that people were talking about earlier in thread.

What Diack was thinking when he had the chance to score I dont know. With Pienaar taking the kicks, trying to get 5-6 metres in from the touchline seemed dumb.

hogandrew

Coburger wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Donal himself is pretty poor. I'm a Leinster fan but he is so in favour of them I find - they can't seem to do no wrong. He was going on about how great BOD is in defense (which he generally is) when he missed two tackles in a Ulster move.

I turned to watch it on TG4 but the picture quality was too poor that it was back to Ryle and Donal.

Pretty sure I heard Ryle refer to Ulster as the others at one point. Also I'm not sure who was responsible for the cameras on the day but the views of some of the kicks were dreadful.

bilston

Leinster to lay their Rabo final hoodoo to rest?

hogandrew wrote: »

Pretty sure I heard Ryle refer to Ulster as the others at one point. Also I'm not sure who was responsible for the cameras on the day but the views of some of the kicks were dreadful.

Ach sure it's not as if BBC NI were impartial!

rrpc

That was one of the most enjoyable matches I've ever watched and not just for what was happening on the field. Never heard two sets of supporters giving it so much socks for so long in a match at this level and it really ramped up the atmosphere.

Result was in doubt right up to the last minute, Ulster were absolutely fantastic and will be favourites for next season IMO. An absolute classic and a huge boost to the Rabo. Sky won't be too displeased with their purchase .

molloyjh

Wonderful day out yesterday. Cracking weather, top class atmosphere, a fine game of rugby and the right result. I thought Lacey was a bit too quick to blow up at the breakdown in the first half in particular. He seemed to ease off a bit in the second, but not sure if that was him or just the sides adjusting to him. The difference in the first 10-15 seemed to be where Leinster conceded their penalties compared to where Ulster did. Didn't see the scrum on the Leinster line properly that seems to have caused a fuss. But in the few hits before hand Court wasn't binding properly and that was ignored too. Thought our back row was excellent and Jenno fully deserved his MOTM. The guy has been in great form recently.

Had a great sing-song with a bunch of Ulster fans in Kielys afterwards and all the Ulster lads we met were absolutely sound. They were all packed onto a bus fairly early though. Would have made for a really great night if they could have stayed. We were talking to one who said he was really embarrassed about the noise for the Leinster kicks. It was very noticeable in the ground that there was a difference between the two sets of fans. He reckons there's been an increasing soccer element coming into Ulster rugby and its not going down well with a lot of them.

Anyway, well done to Leinster. Great way to say goodbye to the lads. That's every trophy available to Leinster in 2 seasons. That'll do nicely. Next up, the Lions.

TheGoldenAges

Some game, some atmosphere, delighted I got a ticket at the last minute. I just wish we could have two Irish teams in the final all the time. Doubt the Scots or the Welsh could make an occasion quite as special as that

Swiwi

molloyjh wrote: »

Wonderful day out yesterday. Cracking weather, top class atmosphere, a fine game of rugby and the right result. I thought Lacey was a bit too quick to blow up at the breakdown in the first half in particular. He seemed to ease off a bit in the second, but not sure if that was him or just the sides adjusting to him. The difference in the first 10-15 seemed to be where Leinster conceded their penalties compared to where Ulster did. Didn't see the scrum on the Leinster line properly that seems to have caused a fuss. But in the few hits before hand Court wasn't binding properly and that was ignored too. Thought our back row was excellent and Jenno fully deserved his MOTM. The guy has been in great form recently.

Had a great sing-song with a bunch of Ulster fans in Kielys afterwards and all the Ulster lads we met were absolutely sound. They were all packed onto a bus fairly early though. Would have made for a really great night if they could have stayed. We were talking to one who said he was really embarrassed about the noise for the Leinster kicks. It was very noticeable in the ground that there was a difference between the two sets of fans. He reckons there's been an increasing soccer element coming into Ulster rugby and its not going down well with a lot of them.

Anyway, well done to Leinster. Great way to say goodbye to the lads. That's every trophy available to Leinster in 2 seasons. That'll do nicely. Next up, the Lions.

The silence (as always) was very impressive. If he found the odd Ulster supporter too noisy, he ain't been to NZ yet - usually just a litany of invective on opposition kicks, it's cringeworthy at times. I found the 2 sets of fans pretty impeccable. Lacey got a fair slagging off though - one guy kept going on about Leinster buying the ref a €100 voucher for Grafton Street. It was funny the first time, not so much when he said it for the umpteenth.

Anyway, I got some ideas for chants to replace "All Blacks! All Blacks!" Haven't decided yet on "Come on you boys in black, come on you boys in black", or "Stand up for the Kiwi men", although I never really liked Go West, so probably the former...

Buer

Irlandczyk wrote: »

Almost forgot about that. Jamie Hagan stole the show with his lovely dolphin dive.

Some really dumb penalties conceded yesterday. Hagan gets the gold medal. Henry the silver for kicking the ball out of Boss's hands and Healy the bronze for the "Leave it!" and then going for the ball on his own 22.

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

Some really dumb penalties conceded yesterday. Hagan gets the gold medal. Henry the silver for kicking the ball out of Boss's hands and Healy the bronze for the "Leave it!" and then going for the ball on his own 22.

and an honourable mention to madigan to think he wasn't tackled when he was up side down with bowe wrapped around him. All he had to do was leave the ball down, stand up and pick and play...

Buer

sydthebeat wrote: »

and an honourable mention to madigan to think he wasn't tackled when he was up side down with bowe wrapped around him. All he had to do was leave the ball down, stand up and pick and play...

I wouldn't be too harsh on that incident. No full back on the field and he got back quick enough to cover. I'd hold Healy more responsible for throwing a silly offload to nobody and costing Leinster 40m. If Madigan had released the ball it was a straight scramble between himself and a 6'3", 16 stone Lions winger for the ball with nobody between them and the try line.

andrewdcs

Cracking game of rugby, fantastic for the league / NH standard bearers.

didnt have much probem with the refereeing, he was consistent in his desire to see the ball free at the breakdown, which I consider part and parcel of a quick game, letting the backlines play. That neither side really 'got it' for most of the first half is down to the themselves and the captains.


Searched the thread and didnt see much of it but Healy looked to get destroyed by Afoa, but watching replays looked like he was on his own against him, neither his lock or flanker (Toner and McLauglin I think?) looked to be really helping him out. Really odd.
Healy himself did a number on Afoa a couple of times later when he had support, so whats the deal with 2nd and back row and how much pressure they put on? Tactical to let the openside free to hit the 8?

andrewdcs

sydthebeat wrote: »

and an honourable mention to madigan to think he wasn't tackled when he was up side down with bowe wrapped around him. All he had to do was leave the ball down, stand up and pick and play...

We thought Madigan and Bowe had been taking Modern Dance together.... very impressively executed Salmon Flip with twist....:pac:

CIARAN_BOYLE

Looking back on the game I am delighted with the result as a Leinster fan.

Have to worry that that might be the last trophy for a while. Four of yesterdays 23 won't be playing in Leinster colours next season and another two are entering what has to be their last season.

Hard luck to Ulster and the best of luck to you next season.

Buer

andrewdcs wrote: »

Healy himself did a number on Afoa a couple of times later when he had support, so whats the deal with 2nd and back row and how much pressure they put on? Tactical to let the openside free to hit the 8?

Indeed. I've seen a couple of comments that Healy was taken apart. He broke even certainly. There were a couple of scrums where Ulster were going backwards and had to clear the ball quickly. He certainly struggled early on and was having difficulty keeping his side up but managed it at the expense of going backwards. The first penalty given against our scrum on the 5m line was a complete coin toss as Court looked just as culpable as Ross.

Leinster's flankers were also quite loose as they looked for the jump on Williams. That actually worked out perfectly as Williams looked to pick it each time regardless of how the scrum was going and was pounced on by a combination of Boss, McLaughlin and Jennings several times. There were a couple of scrums where Ulster actually lost yards after taking the ball from the base which is rarely seen.

awec

I think I've finally calmed down...

jamiedav2011

An absolutely brilliant day at the RDS (our RDS by the way... :pac:)

Jenno has been excellent all year, bar a horror show in Galway he's been incredibly consistent. Great player and leader. Was very impressed by how he stepped into the Tullow Tank role yesterday with some good first up carries.
Definitely deserved MOTM.

Elsewhere, thought Dev Toner really showed a snapshot of what he is. Incredible lineout and high ball operator, and had a good game, but his carrying really is some of the worst I've seen in the pro game, due to his height. That may sound a bit harsh, but I'd literally like to see him flopping straight away and setting up quick ball than taking the ball into contact. Just way, way too high.

Our backrow was great, totally outplayed Henry, Diack and Williams I thought, though Big Nick was typically strong with ball in hand.

Backs were a little less fluid than in recent times, thought BOD was surprisingly quiet, though MCF was excellent yet again. Great warrior.

Madigan isn't a 12, though picked some good lines. Would have liked to seen Goodman in there though. Watched him doing a warm up in the second half and the guy really is a beast. Huge man, almost back row size.

For Ulster, thought Olding did well. Bowe was his usual dangerous self, while Pienaar controlled everything.
As someone mentioned, there's a huge year coming up for Ulster. Muller, Afoa, Pienaar will all surely be gone at the end of next year (think I'm correct in saying that?). That's the heart of your team ripped out.
I had a bit of a bust up with Jackass earlier in the year about Jackson, and he was right. Despite what some may have said on here, myself included, he's not good enough yet. Would like to see him put him in with a lesser SH than Pienaar week in week out to prove his mettle.

Actually shed a tear when Isa, Joe and Johnny were sent off myself. That could have been the cans we brought in, our could have been the realisation that we may never see the likes of this Leinster team again. Matt O'Connor has a big job to do!

Finally, a special word for a minority of the Ulster fans. People have said on here before that booing is just a 'pantomime thing' that's done in Ravenhill. Some of the stuff going on yesterday was just football fan esque. Booing the kicker, shouting crap at Johnny, booing the Leinster team coming out etc.

Ulster support was great in general, and great craic, but jaysus, some really let the side down with that crap. Not nice.

By god it is sweet to end the season with a treble though! After 65 minutes in the Aviva against Clermont in December I would have certainly taken that. Love this fecking team.

trouttrout

Agree re: Madigan not being a 12, and certainly not one in the way he's being used. An example that Schmidt is human after all

Very frustrating seeing him take on three or four crash balls that would have been bread and butter to Goodman

jamiedav2011

trouttrout wrote: »

Agree re: Madigan not being a 12, and certainly not one in the way he's being used. An example that Schmidt is human after all

Very frustrating seeing him take on three or four crash balls that would have been bread and butter to Goodman

I don't know about how he's being used in fairness. Most 12s these days need to take multiple crash balls in a game, that's just the role.

Just shows though how important Darcy is to us when fit, his leg drive is almost unmatched in the Irish game. Madigan looked very much a 10 playing 12. I reckon he'd even be better at 13 tbh.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Just shows though how important Darcy is to us when fit, his leg drive is almost unmatched in the Irish game.

Mcfadden Marshall and Trimble come close

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Mcfadden Marshall and Trimble come close

And McSharry... and Downey in fairness

jamiedav2011

Hence why I said almost lads.

Darcy definitely top of that list for me.

Irlandczyk

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Looking back on the game I am delighted with the result as a Leinster fan.

Have to worry that that might be the last trophy for a while. Four of yesterdays 23 won't be playing in Leinster colours next season and another two are entering what has to be their last season.

Hard luck to Ulster and the best of luck to you next season.

Not so sure about that, even if we are 'in transition', I think there are a lot of quality players left in there for next season, and then after that, the youngsters of this year will have an extra season or two to step up. Can see us winning some silverware in BOD's last season for sure!

Heroditas

Enjoyable match, those last few minutes were far too close for comfort. You cold really tell how much it meant to the players when the final whistle blew.
Fantastic atmosphere, I was reminded of Croke Park in 2009 when I entered the RDS off Anglesea Road and was met with swarms of Ulster fans both on Anglesea Road and congregating behind the North Stand.
"Where the hell are all the Leinster fans?!" I asked my wife.we definitely knew something was up when we saw there wasn't a queue for the Eddie Rockets van only 20mins before the kick off. Presbyterians mustn't like that sort of food.
Naturally, we found the Leinster fans all down the far end of the ground.

Thought McFadden and Conway had good games and Toner was brilliant at the restarts and lineouts but had a poor day carrying ball into contact. The Ulster lads did a number on him and he wasn't as effective as he has been for the last few weeks. Still, he's a far better player than the beginning of the season and is now a firm regular (in my mind anyway) in the side.

No ned to say anything about the backrow, it's been said already. Jenno must have been wearing his Sean O'Brien underpants, what a performance and closely followed by Heaslip and McLaughlin. Such strength in depth.

I was sitting right in front of Diack's held-up try and Sexton came across very well to stop him. Couldn't believe it at the time and it actually looks an even bigger cock-up now that I've seen it on the TV. One of the biggest all-time bloopers. Still, in a way it was nice to stop a try there this time around, we can all remember that same corner of the pitch in the final last year.

Great send-off for the lads, thanks for the memories for what has been another fantastic season.

P.S. I've never seen so many drunken Ulster fans! Got accosted by two extremely merry Ulster women boarding their bus when we were heading back to our car after a drink in the Ho Sho and I ended up being relieved of my scarf and flag (fleg)!!!

bilston

Leinster to lay their Rabo final hoodoo to rest?

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

An absolutely brilliant day at the RDS (our RDS by the way... :pac:)

Jenno has been excellent all year, bar a horror show in Galway he's been incredibly consistent. Great player and leader. Was very impressed by how he stepped into the Tullow Tank role yesterday with some good first up carries.
Definitely deserved MOTM.

Elsewhere, thought Dev Toner really showed a snapshot of what he is. Incredible lineout and high ball operator, and had a good game, but his carrying really is some of the worst I've seen in the pro game, due to his height. That may sound a bit harsh, but I'd literally like to see him flopping straight away and setting up quick ball than taking the ball into contact. Just way, way too high.

Our backrow was great, totally outplayed Henry, Diack and Williams I thought, though Big Nick was typically strong with ball in hand.

Backs were a little less fluid than in recent times, thought BOD was surprisingly quiet, though MCF was excellent yet again. Great warrior.

Madigan isn't a 12, though picked some good lines. Would have liked to seen Goodman in there though. Watched him doing a warm up in the second half and the guy really is a beast. Huge man, almost back row size.

For Ulster, thought Olding did well. Bowe was his usual dangerous self, while Pienaar controlled everything.
As someone mentioned, there's a huge year coming up for Ulster. Muller, Afoa, Pienaar will all surely be gone at the end of next year (think I'm correct in saying that?). That's the heart of your team ripped out.
I had a bit of a bust up with Jackass earlier in the year about Jackson, and he was right. Despite what some may have said on here, myself included, he's not good enough yet. Would like to see him put him in with a lesser SH than Pienaar week in week out to prove his mettle.

Actually shed a tear when Isa, Joe and Johnny were sent off myself. That could have been the cans we brought in, our could have been the realisation that we may never see the likes of this Leinster team again. Matt O'Connor has a big job to do!

Finally, a special word for a minority of the Ulster fans. People have said on here before that booing is just a 'pantomime thing' that's done in Ravenhill. Some of the stuff going on yesterday was just football fan esque. Booing the kicker, shouting crap at Johnny, booing the Leinster team coming out etc.

Ulster support was great in general, and great craic, but jaysus, some really let the side down with that crap. Not nice.

By god it is sweet to end the season with a treble though! After 65 minutes in the Aviva against Clermont in December I would have certainly taken that. Love this fecking team.

What was your problem with Jackson yesterday? I really don't understand the constant sniping that goes on at his expense from south of the border. It borders on the bizarre. I genuinely don't know what else he was meant to do yesterday. Two piercing breaks, lovely distribution, a couple of big kicks and excellent defence.

Baffling.

trouttrout

Ya, thought Jackson was very good yesterday

awec

I think its cause Jackson doesn't have the direct impact on our points total as other 10s.

i.e because he doesn't take our kicks.

Mahatma Geansai

bilston wrote: »

What was your problem with Jackson yesterday? I really don't understand the constant sniping that goes on at his expense from south of the border. It borders on the bizarre. I genuinely don't know what else he was meant to do yesterday. Two piercing breaks, lovely distribution, a couple of big kicks and excellent defence.

Baffling.

He doesn't really control a game (yet) like you'd want a 10 to do, but he is a very talented player; he has a lovely pass and a good eye for the break. At this stage he still needs a strong 9 beside him to take on much of the responsibility, but he should improve in time.

He gets a very rough time though; its completely unwarranted.

CatFromHue

I read "not good enough yet" in the context of Ireland honours, not Ulster.

CIARAN_BOYLE

awec wrote: »

I think its cause Jackson doesn't have the direct impact on our points total as other 10s.

i.e because he doesn't take our kicks.

Jackson is a good player but he is fortunate that he has a game managing 9(better than any IQ 9, especially at game managemnt) inside him and a 2nd five eights outside him. Its interesting that Ulster have 3 inside centres who are 2nd five eights types.

Anyway Jackson has help at 9 and 12 taking pressure off him and this causes a lot of people not to rate him as being as good as he is.

It doesn't mean he is a bad 10 just that his province uses him differently than other teams use their 10s.

Then there is the fact that he doesn't take kicks adding to issues. I'm sure he isn't a bad placekicker, Pienaar is just better and no disgrace to him because of that. Just there are a lot of people who don't know that much about Jackson that think because he doesn't kick he can't.

Anyway this leaves Jackson in some peoples views as a young 10 that can't placekick and needs a team designed around him to take care of game management. Its not true but some people think it is.

jamiedav2011

bilston wrote: »

What was your problem with Jackson yesterday? I really don't understand the constant sniping that goes on at his expense from south of the border. It borders on the bizarre. I genuinely don't know what else he was meant to do yesterday. Two piercing breaks, lovely distribution, a couple of big kicks and excellent defence.

Baffling.

Oh give over will you. 'South of the border' :rolleyes:

I didn't mention any problem with Jackson's play yesterday, he was fine.

However, when you compare his impact on the game to Sexton's it was minimal. Whether by design or otherwise, all of Ulster's play comes from 9, Jackson is very much a cog.

Despite the fact that Sexton wasn't great, and hasn't been his usual self since the announcement, he was still far more impactful than his opposing number.

Not a bad player, and should improve, but that wasn't the performance of an international 10.

With regards to kicking awec, from me anyway, that's incorrect. As you'll see from my earlier posts on Madigan I'm not from the traditional Irish school of thought that a 10 has to kick at all, so we can leave that aside.

And yes, I meant not good enough in terms of Ireland honours rather than Ulster.

If saying a player isn't international standard yet is 'completely unwarranted' then I'd love to see your thoughts on some of the posts that have gone on in this place this year.

irishbucsfan

Why on earth would you build your game around your 10 when you have Pienaar at 9?

Jackson was very good yesterday I thought.

jamiedav2011

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Jackson is a good player but he is fortunate that he has a game managing 9(better than any IQ 9, especially at game managemnt) inside him and a 2nd five eights outside him. Its interesting that Ulster have 3 inside centres who are 2nd five eights types.

Anyway Jackson has help at 9 and 12 taking pressure off him and this causes a lot of people not to rate him as being as good as he is.

It doesn't mean he is a bad 10 just that his province uses him differently than other teams use their 10s.

Then there is the fact that he doesn't take kicks adding to issues. I'm sure he isn't a bad placekicker, Pienaar is just better and no disgrace to him because of that. Just there are a lot of people who don't know that much about Jackson that think because he doesn't kick he can't.

Anyway this leaves Jackson in some peoples views as a young 10 that can't placekick and needs a team designed around him to take care of game management. Its not true but some people think it is.

I'd hope that's not referring to me, because that's not what I said or think.

shuffol

If Pienaar plays 9, he's going to be controlling a fair portion of the game irregardless of who the 10 is, doesnt necessarily imply that Jackson is unable to control a game.

jamiedav2011

shuffol wrote: »

If Pienaar plays 9, he's going to be controlling a fair portion of the game irregardless of who the 10 is, doesnt necessarily imply that Jackson is unable to control a game.

It doesn't, but we haven't seen him do it yet, ergo my point that I don't believe he's good enough to be Irish 10 yet.

irishbucsfan

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

It doesn't, but we haven't seen him do it yet, ergo my point that I don't believe he's good enough to be Irish 10 yet.

Yeah we have seen him do it actually, the whole way up the underage ranks and when Pienaar is absent.

Do you not remember Ulster v. Munster earlier on in the year when he gave that young Cork fellah, Raymond O'Garmin or whatever his name is, a lesson in game management?