London - Suspected Terrorist Incident

Red Crow

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'll ask you the same question I asked Happyman. Would you say the same thing if a member of the Irish defence force was killed in the same manner in the Curragh?

Those cowards in London were trying to make a political statement about Islam and their people being killed. If it happened to someone in the Curragh it would be about the over spending of the defence budget here or something stupid like that. The English are proud of their defence forces, the Irish aren't.

The only reason someone would be beheaded in the Curragh was if there was a movie being filmed there.

opinionated3

Nodin wrote: »

"we" do? News to me.

we, as in the west.

Zambia

Eli Manning wrote: »

The English are proud of their defence forces, the Irish aren't.

I am.

Nonoperational

Man, after reading this thread you'd really wonder what happened to some people that they have developed such a twisted way of thinking about life and the world.

Seachmall

Nonoperational wrote: »

Man, after reading this thread you'd really wonder what happened to some people that they have developed such a twisted way of thinking about life and the world.

Surely the two men who ran over, beat and beheaded a man in public while demanding attention from bystanders only to attempt suicide-by-cop would have made you wonder that long before reading this thread...?

Fratton Fred

Eli Manning wrote: »

Those cowards in London were trying to make a political statement about Islam and their people being killed. If it happened to someone in the Curragh it would be about the over spending of the defence budget here or something stupid like that. The English are proud of their defence forces, the Irish aren't.

The only reason someone would be beheaded in the Curragh was if there was a movie being filmed there.

My point is that the Irish defence force is a member of ISAF and the operations in Afghanistan are fully supported by the Irish government.

AlekSmart

smurgen wrote: »

R.I.P to the soldier in question.This thread has been the most idiotic i've ever seen on boards .So many stupid and factually incorrect statements.It was like the Daily Mail was posting at one stage. The only good posters in it have been Manic Moran and Nodin,both have very different views on things but at least they don't spew a lot of hyperbolic crap.

The only thing this incident has done for me is that it just reaffirmed my own belief in the link between mental illness and religion. It seems as if both go hand in hand.

Surely food for thought and certainly scope for a Megathread of itself ?

However,finding a broadly acceptable definition for what constitutes "Mental Illness" may prove difficult.

In this instance,what we do know is that Micheal Adebolajo (the Cleaver guy) is no johnny-come-lately to the world of excitable Islam.

In keeping with smurgen's theory on the religion-insanity link,Odebolajo (aka Mujahid) is reported to come from a devout Nigerian Christian family.

That "Devout" tag is the key,as it appeard to represent a carte-blanche in every instance to modify whatever beliefs one's religion espouses and turn them into the wildest of realities.

It is,sadly becoming visible once again on Irish streets,as can be seen (and heard) every Saturday in and around poor oul James Joyce's statue in Dublins Nth Earl Street.

Huge questions about what we humans feel necessary to believe in and better still,why we need to believe in it at all...?

However,on this thread its extraneous stuff ?

As for the hyperbolic crap,well my Jury is out on that,as even a cursory viewing of the images from Woowich reveals all that is SO very wrong in how Humanity is progressing...?

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

99.9% of the muslim popluation follow an extremist sect of wahabi Islam? This is news to me.

I don't have access to the stats you obviously have Nodin.

However,I'll happily accept that the regular large attendances at the events "starring" Anjam and his ilk are in fact,devoutly Christian members of the Liberal Party with a few Jehovah's Witnesses thrown in for balance...leaving only the .1% of moslems to collect the donations...?

Whether Nodin likes it or not,modern Islams growing problem with radical Jihadism,particularly amongst it's younger members points to far more than 00.1% being supportive of the more activist sects.

Just watch that video-clip of Chaudry "converting" the 10 year old young lad and listen to the roars of appreciation from that 00.1%...Oh Happy Day it surely aint

Karl Stein

A voice from the wilderness?

Woolwich attack: of course British foreign policy had a role

It should by now be self-evident that by attacking Muslims overseas, you will occasionally spawn twisted and, as we saw yesterday, even murderous hatred at home. We need to recognise that, given the continued role our government has chosen to play in the US imperial project in the Middle East, we are lucky that these attacks are so few and far between.

Vast swaths of the British population also stand in opposition to these wars, including many veterans of the wars like myself and Ross, as well as serving soldiers I speak to who cannot be named here for fear of persecution.

Yet this anti-war view, so widely held and strongly felt, finds no expression in a parliament for whom the merest whiff of boot polish or military jargon causes a fit of "Tommy this, Tommy that …" jingoism. The fact is, there are two majority views in this country: one in the political body that says war, war and more war; and one in the population which says it's had enough of giving up its sons and daughter abroad and now, again, at home.

Joe Glenton: Former British Soldier.

Cody Pomeray

smurgen wrote: »

The only thing this incident has done for me is that it just reaffirmed my own belief in the link between mental illness and religion. It seems as if both go hand in hand.

Oh yes, won't someone please lock up all of the quiet church going, mosque going, temple going masses who don't try and interfere with anyone else's belief system and moral code.

That's about as daft as affirming a causal link between immigrants and terrorism, or non-Caucasians and terrorism tbh.

atkin

British born Muslim terrorist .I would like to know more of the history as to how they came to the UK.I would assume asylum as they are Nigerian origin.The question raised again is Asylum of any benefit to a nation when such feelings are allowed to fester .I suspect many Muslims have a sympathetic view for them deep in their heart for what happened .This is similar to the IRA sympathetic view during the troubles. There is no strong condemnation or how they intend to tackle those clerics and individuals that incite violence . They should be excommunicated or does that make them some kind of martyr.
These countries that are a hot bed for terrorism should have been isolated many years ago.The borders sealed off travel restricted like North Korea or Albania.A country can only sort out its own problems .

Cody Pomeray

atkin wrote: »

British born Muslim terrorist .I would like to know more of the history as to how they came to the UK. I would assume asylum as they are Nigerian origin.

His parents were Christians, working for that most British of institutions, the NHS. Perhaps they were British, if not, perhaps they came on work visas.

The question raised again is Asylum of any benefit to a nation when such feelings are allowed to fester

You're jumping to an awful lot of conclusions here.

Is asylum any benefit to a nation? It's not really about nationhood, is it. More of a human outreach to those who have shown the need to escape serious torment incompatible with human dignity.

You're just attempting to conflate this incident with your own pre-set opposition to the principle of asylum. That gets really boring, in a thread like this, we've seen so much of it already. You're a bit late to the party actually. Can't you do something more interesting? Got any party tricks?

space_man

atkin wrote: »

British born Muslim terrorist .I would like to know more of the history as to how they came to the UK.I would assume asylum as they are Nigerian origin.The question raised again is Asylum of any benefit to a nation when such feelings are allowed to fester .I suspect many Muslims have a sympathetic view for them deep in their heart for what happened .This is similar to the IRA sympathetic view during the troubles. There is no strong condemnation or how they intend to tackle those clerics and individuals that incite violence . They should be excommunicated or does that make them some kind of martyr.
These countries that are a hot bed for terrorism should have been isolated many years ago.The borders sealed off travel restricted like North Korea or Albania.A country can only sort out its own problems .

you are raising very valid questions about issues many of these apologists for murder prefer to ignore.
all aspects of these creature's lives (including those of his extended tribe) ought to be examined, and i have little doubt they will be.

Nodin

opinionated3 wrote: »

we, as in the west.

I had no idea we were consolidated in one homogenous mass. Must have slept through it.

Aleksmart wrote:

I don't have access to the stats you obviously have Nodin.

Suprising, given the way you present things as facts, when they must only be opinions.

Nodin

atkin wrote: »

British born Muslim terrorist .I would like to know more of the history as to how they came to the UK.I would assume asylum as they are Nigerian origin./...............

He came to Britain via his Mothers birth canal, so you can stop assuming.

Space_Man wrote:

you are raising very valid questions about issues many of these apologists for
murder prefer to ignore.

Theres "apologists for murder" here? Please quote and link to these individuals.

Hoop66

space_man wrote: »

you are raising very valid questions about issues many of these apologists for murder prefer to ignore.
all aspects of these creature's lives (including those of his extended tribe) ought to be examined, and i have little doubt they will be.

A post that uses deliberately provocative words like "creatures" and "tribe" does not contribute in any way to the debate.
It also comes across being bigoted, and reveals attitudes that have no place in modern, civilised society.

Meritocracy Wins

Zambia wrote: »

I am.

So am I, especially for the work they do in their peacekeeping duties.

However I do hope that we do not become a nation that glorifies our military.

atkin

lightspeed wrote: »

Why cant they just stop letting in immigrants that they know come from areas riddled with terrorism?

If there was a dangerous outbreak of a fatal unknown disease where it was not possible to screen people for the disease in places like Pakistan, Nigeria, Yemen, Chechnya, Iran, would they let people from these countries into the UK and US ?

If not then why are people from these countries were muslim extremist groups are widespread able to enter countries like USA and the UK?

The Rotunda Master discovered that 50% of women from sub sahara Africa giving birth there had HIV .No cause for alarm .
The number of TB cases is on the rise about 500 each year its contracted by Irish tourists abroad and immigrants.The number of those in the population with latent TB is estimated at 30% .This means its dormant and can activate when you are are sick or get old.Nice thought.

space_man

Meritocracy Wins wrote: »

So am I, especially for the work they do in their peacekeeping duties.

However I do hope that we do not become a nation that glorifies our military.

i don't think you could describe our armed forces as a military force in the true sense.
imo they're more like an overseas charity that does a bit of heavy lifting from time to time.

FTA69

atkin wrote: »

I would assume asylum as they are Nigerian origin.The question raised again is Asylum of any benefit to a nation when such feelings are allowed to fester .

Nigeria is a former British colony, there are hundreds of thousands of them here and they have been established here since the 1800s. They started coming more recently in the 1950s; the asylum-seeking is a relatively new phenomenon.

You're talking nonsense mate.

It's also worth noting they are amongst the most academically successful ethnic groups in the UK and have a thriving business culture. They certainly do better here than they do in Ireland where the asylum process doles them out a pittance and prevents them from working.

space_man

FTA69 wrote: »

Nigeria is a former British colony, there are hundreds of thousands of them here and they have been established here since the 1800s. They started coming more recently in the 1950s; the asylum-seeking is a relatively new phenomenon.

You're talking nonsense mate.

It's also worth noting they are amongst the most academically successful ethnic groups in the UK and have a thriving business culture. They certainly do better here than they do in Ireland where the asylum process doles them out a pittance and prevents them from working.

unlike Britian which enjoyed it's empire, we owe them nothing and we shouldn't be alowed to forget that.:D

FTA69

You can laugh all you want but there's no point in moaning about workshy Nigerians when they're legally prevented from working. There's also little point in moaning about them participating in the black economy (forgive the pun!) when they're prevented from working and given a pittance by the state.

atkin

Meritocracy Wins wrote: »

So am I, especially for the work they do in their peacekeeping duties.

However I do hope that we do not become a nation that glorifies our military.

My Dad was in the war and hated listening to the brits how they were so good at defeating the Germans .They forgot to mention that they had a lot of help from the USA otherwise Hitler would have defeated them.

Nodin

space_man wrote: »

Space_man wrote:

you are raising very valid questions about issues many of these apologists for murder prefer to ignore.

The "apologists for murder" - Please quote and link to these individuals.

Solair

There's a bit of a worrying trend for 'disillusioned youth' to become radicalised in quite a few countries.

There's also a bit of a worrying rise in various psychopaths acting out with extreme violence seeking publicity.

I think we need to do a lot more analysis.

What worries me about the situation in the UK and London in particular is that there were massive riots a few years ago and I think the establishment has very much swept the whole thing under the carpet and completely forgotten about it.

There's something fundamentally going badly wrong with a significant % of society in certain UK cities and I think it's leaving them open to radicalisation from Islamic extremism, the far right and all sorts of other potential problems.

humanji

atkin wrote: »

The Rotunda Master discovered that 50% of women from sub sahara Africa giving birth there had HIV .No cause for alarm .
The number of TB cases is on the rise about 500 each year its contracted by Irish tourists abroad and immigrants.The number of those in the population with latent TB is estimated at 30% .This means its dormant and can activate when you are are sick or get old.Nice thought.

Stick to the topic instead of scaremongering.

space_man

FTA69 wrote: »

You can laugh all you want but there's no point in moaning about workshy Nigerians when they're legally prevented from working. There's also little point in moaning about them participating in the black economy (forgive the pun!) when they're prevented from working and given a pittance by the state.

well if they cant work here, they ought to follow the advice of that great English parliamentarian and "on yer bike!"

FTA69

This really is face-palm stuff like. "On yer bike" was a call for people to go looking hard for a job. Something asylum-seekers are legally forbidden to do.

space_man

FTA69 wrote: »

This really is face-palm stuff like. "On yer bike" was a call for people to go looking hard for a job. Something asylum-seekers are legally forbidden to do.

then they were rather foolish to come here weren't they?

i am delighted they are having problems getting work here.
it may have escaped your attention, but we here in Ireland have a bit of a problem with unemployment amongst our own people.

they would be much better off going to a country that will benefit from their ardent work ethic and energetic entrepreneurial skills.
i'm sure those countries will welcome them with open arms.

Nodin

space_man wrote: »

then they were rather foolish to come here weren't they?

When you're finished displaying your lack of knowledge of the asylum system, you might fill us in with regards to

space_man wrote:

you are raising very valid questions about issues many of these apologists for
murder prefer to ignore.

The "apologists for murder" - Please quote and link to these individuals.

You wouldn't want to give the impression you were just indirectly insulting people with no basis, would you?

Cody Pomeray

atkin wrote: »

The Rotunda Master discovered that 50% of women from sub sahara Africa giving birth there had HIV .No cause for alarm .

Link??

edit, I know a mod has warned the poster from going down this line, but I think an accusation like that can't go unchallenged.

Spurtacus

Video of police shooting the perpetrators up on Mirror site
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-attack-watch-shocking-video-1907772#.UZ6Es1YawxI.twitter

Please don't watch if your sensitive to these things.
It's all over & done in less than 10 seconds, some fine police work.

space_man

atkin wrote: »

The Rotunda Master discovered that 50% of women from sub sahara Africa giving birth there had HIV .No cause for alarm .
The number of TB cases is on the rise about 500 each year its contracted by Irish tourists abroad and immigrants.The number of those in the population with latent TB is estimated at 30% .This means its dormant and can activate when you are are sick or get old.Nice thought.

those are truly shocking statistics.:eek:

lightspeed

Bogota wrote: »

What? The guy was born in Britain. Well integrated and mainly had 'white' friends.

You're not actually suggesting that the fact that his skin pigment is different means hes more susceptible to terrorism?

Maybe the British should have banned the Irish from entering Britain in the troubles?

Yes they should have banned the irish from entering Britain during the troubles.

The same way they should have banned Germans from entering Britain during World War 2.

Furthermore, this guy was known to M15 when he joined an extremist group in the UK and began handing out leaflets promoting muslim extremism.

That is when this guy and all those who preach extremism should have been arrested and put in prison until a qualified group of psychologists determine he is not a threat or danger.

The problem is people in the western world want to have freedom of speech at all times, even when that means having to allow people to promote and spread extremist violent ideas.

If i went to Pakistan or Nigeria and promoted extremism against muslim people, policemen and the government, would i be able to recruit potential terrorists to my cause and bomb or kill people in Pakistan or Nigeria?

Not a chance, there would be a strong possibility i would be killed and a certain possibility that i would be put into a prison cell and deported if i was an immigrant.

space_man

lightspeed wrote: »

Yes they should have banned the irish from entering Britain during the troubles.

The same way they should have banned Germans from entering Britain during World War 2.

Furthermore, this guy was known to M15 when he joined an extremist group in the UK and began handing out leaflets promoting muslim extremism.

That is when this guy and all those who preach extremism should have been arrested and put in prison until a qualified group of psychologists determine he is not a threat or danger.

The problem is people in the western world want to have freedom of speech at all times, even when that means having to allow people to promote and spread extremist violent ideas.

If i went to Pakistan or Nigeria and promoted extremism against muslim people, policemen and the government, would i be able to recruit potential terrorists to my cause and bomb or kill people in Pakistan or Nigeria?

Not a chance, there would be a strong possibility i would be killed and a certain possibility that i would be put into a prison cell and deported if i was an immigrant.

at last somebody is talking sense on this forum.
i personally would go so far as to say, if security service/MI5 etc. had even the slightest inkling what these murdering animals were invloved in, then they should have implemented a pre-emptive "shoot to kill" policy.

atkin

humanji wrote: »

Stick to the topic instead of scaremongering.

Scaremongering I said no cause for alarm .

tfitzgerald

I have to say I might not be happy about Lightspeeds post. But I do agree with it

Fratton Fred

lightspeed wrote: »

Yes they should have banned the irish from entering Britain during the troubles.

The same way they should have banned Germans from entering Britain during World War 2.

Furthermore, this guy was known to M15 when he joined an extremist group in the UK and began handing out leaflets promoting muslim extremism.

That is when this guy and all those who preach extremism should have been arrested and put in prison until a qualified group of psychologists determine he is not a threat or danger.

The problem is people in the western world want to have freedom of speech at all times, even when that means having to allow people to promote and spread extremist violent ideas.

If i went to Pakistan or Nigeria and promoted extremism against muslim people, policemen and the government, would i be able to recruit potential terrorists to my cause and bomb or kill people in Pakistan or Nigeria?

Not a chance, there would be a strong possibility i would be killed and a certain possibility that i would be put into a prison cell and deported if i was an immigrant.

One major flaw of course is that "technically" it wasn't the Iris. Bombing England, it was the "British" just as the current terrorist attacks are being carried out by British people as well.

atkin

FTA69 wrote: »

Nigeria is a former British colony, there are hundreds of thousands of them here and they have been established here since the 1800s. They started coming more recently in the 1950s; the asylum-seeking is a relatively new phenomenon.

You're talking nonsense mate.

It's also worth noting they are amongst the most academically successful ethnic groups in the UK and have a thriving business culture. They certainly do better here than they do in Ireland where the asylum process doles them out a pittance and prevents them from working.

The statistics show that 40% of Nigerians are on welfare .I worked in the security industry in 2 companies they always got the sack .This country allowed in opportunists eg Irish born baby fiasco and it developed from there.
The taxis in Dublin are over run with those on back to work allowance and they never even worked here.

In Ireland and the Uk if you are a suspected member of the IRA you are arrested under the offenses against the state .You can be detained for longer periods than the standard 24 hours. I suppose the 2 British citizens of Nigerian decent were academics and fine upstanding people.The reason they were not arrested for a disturbance in 2006 outside a police station.
Maybe it is all nonsense because it does not suit your agenda. .

mod: banned.

My name is URL

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/470265/20130523/woolwich-beheading-murder-mosque-braintree-gillingham-arson.htm

Not sure if this was mentioned already. Can't be arsed reading through 10+ pages to check. No shortage of white, British born & bred nutters either it seems.

.jacksparrow.

lightspeed wrote: »

Yes they should have banned the irish from entering Britain during the troubles.

The same way they should have banned Germans from entering Britain during World War 2.

Furthermore, this guy was known to M15 when he joined an extremist group in the UK and began handing out leaflets promoting muslim extremism.

That is when this guy and all those who preach extremism should have been arrested and put in prison until a qualified group of psychologists determine he is not a threat or danger.

The problem is people in the western world want to have freedom of speech at all times, even when that means having to allow people to promote and spread extremist violent ideas.

If i went to Pakistan or Nigeria and promoted extremism against muslim people, policemen and the government, would i be able to recruit potential terrorists to my cause and bomb or kill people in Pakistan or Nigeria?

Not a chance, there would be a strong possibility i would be killed and a certain possibility that i would be put into a prison cell and deported if i was an immigrant.

But that's not true, sure Marian price was put into custody and still is for holding a piece of paper for some ra head threatening to kill the psni.

space_man

atkin wrote: »

The statistics show that 40% of Nigerians are on welfare .I worked in the security industry in 2 companies they always got the sack .This country allowed in opportunists eg Irish born baby fiasco and it developed from there.
The taxis in Dublin are over run with those on back to work allowance and they never even worked here.Maybe it is all nonsense because it does not suit your agenda. .

but this multiculturalism is working well isn't it?
i mean all we have to do is adopt a liberal/PC approach like other more 'enlightened' countries like Sweden?

FTA69

One major flaw of course is that "technically" it wasn't the Iris. Bombing England, it was the "British" just as the current terrorist attacks are being carried out by British people as well.

I'd say most of those involved in the England campaign from the 1980s were from the south. The last IRA member to be killed in England was born and raised in West London.

I can't believe this thread has actually featured people saying the Irish should have been banned from emigrating to Britain. The ironic thing is that the Paddies built a lot more than what some of them blew up.

atkin

FTA69 wrote: »

You can laugh all you want but there's no point in moaning about workshy Nigerians when they're legally prevented from working. There's also little point in moaning about them participating in the black economy (forgive the pun!) when they're prevented from working and given a pittance by the state.

They are no direct flights to Ireland from Nigeria .They have come here and sought asylum after being refused in another country ,The rules governing asylum state that you must seek asylum in the first port of entry only.
Give a good reason why such people should be allowed to work in a country that cannot employ its own citizens !!
A thriving business culture that is correct, selling met amphetamine from grant funded shops in Dublin.A highly addictive drug almost unknown in Ireland until recently.
We are a soft touch still.

atkin

Nodin wrote: »

When you're finished displaying your lack of knowledge of the asylum system, you might fill us in with regards to



The "apologists for murder" - Please quote and link to these individuals.

You wouldn't want to give the impression you were just indirectly insulting people with no basis, would you?

How about saying something useful instead of snipe comments .

Jorah

space_man wrote: »

unlike Britian which enjoyed it's empire, we owe them nothing and we shouldn't be alowed to forget that.:D

We don't "owe" them anything either.

FTA69

They are no direct flights to Ireland from Nigeria .They have come here and sought asylum after being refused in another country ,The rules governing asylum state that you must seek asylum in the first port of entry only.

Lies. Absolutely not the case and this has been done to death by the anti-immigration brigade despite it not being a reality.

Give a good reason why such people should be allowed to work in a country that cannot employ its own citizens !!

By your logic I should be repatriated to Ireland due to the fact there in unemployment in the UK.

selling met amphetamine from grant funded shops in Dublin.A highly addictive drug almost unknown in Ireland until recently.

Ah the old "blacks are drug dealers" line. I've never heard that before. There are indeed seriously dodgy Nigerians knocking around, nobody is denying that. That's a far cry, however, from labelling every black in Ireland as a fraudster, drug-dealer or con artist.

space_man

Jorah wrote: »

We don't "owe" them anything either.

ah yes!
multiculturalism.
it's working well in Sweden it seems.
maybe they should up their benefits?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/sweden-riots-spread-to-south-of-capital-1.1404176

crazygeryy

after seeing that press conference this morning those bastards that did this deserve to die. and deserve to die roaring.
in among all that petty debating in the posts above theres a family who have lost their son and a 2 year old child who will never know his father.
thats the only thing that matters imo.

atkin

FTA69 wrote: »

Lies. Absolutely not the case and this has been done to death by the anti-immigration brigade despite it not being a reality.



By your logic I should be repatriated to Ireland due to the fact there in unemployment in the UK.



Ah the old "blacks are drug dealers" line. I've never heard that before. There are indeed seriously dodgy Nigerians knocking around, nobody is denying that. That's a far cry, however, from labelling every black in Ireland as a fraudster, drug-dealer or con artist.

A study of asylum seekers in Ireland showed that 30% not just Nigerians entered the UK and sought asylum there first.I spoke with a translator at the asylum centre .He said the stories that asylum seekers made up were comical.
One said he came to Ireland on a camel The worrying point is that people enter this country and their background cannot be checked .They tear up passports change identity give false names.I know former asylum seekers and many of the tricks.

I never said that every Nigerian was dodgy.I lived in France attended an International college 36 years ago.I studied with many African nationalities and made good friends there.I believe that many foreigners here have criminal backgrounds escaping justice in their home country.I found Africans I worked with in Ireland to be aggressive,sly and secretive just my experience.

So what is your master plan for Ireland and its relation to Muslims,asylum seekers and immigrants who commit terror acts and form groups to incite violence.You do not even live in Ireland so how is this relevant to you.