London - Suspected Terrorist Incident

Latchy

ONeill2013 wrote: »

who would want to flip out their mobile phone to take a few shots when seeing this and people think the paparazzi are bad

If mobile phone /digi cameras weren't around then pretty much nobody would have took pictures of anything today but they did ,simply because they could ,that's the sadder and depressing part of modern human behaviour .

user2011

user2011 wrote: »

Were ITV camera's switched off then switched on after the two guys got shot, or are they just being western journo's and not showing the guys being shot?

If it's the first it's a bit strange that they didn't keep rolling for a major terrorist incident.

The footage and images are from members of the public who were at the scene when it happened. There were no News cameras there at the time as far as we know.

I did wonder too, why ITV cut out a piece of the footage.

Intensive Care Bear

user2011 wrote: »

Were ITV camera's switched off then switched on after the two guys got shot, or are they just being western journo's and not showing the guys being shot?

If it's the first it's a bit strange that they didn't keep rolling for a major terrorist incident.

That was filmed by a member of the public and i'm sure there is a full version, they just wont show it on the news.

trouttrout

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

The footage and images are from members of the public who were at the scene when it happened. There were no News cameras there at the time as far as we know.

I did wonder too, why ITV cut out a piece of the footage.

Yep, citizen journalism

user2011

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

The footage and images are from members of the public who were at the scene when it happened. There were no News cameras there at the time as far as we know.

Cheers, it's just ITV taken ownership of the video so?

Karl Stein

space_man wrote: »

if this is the level to which they have sank,

What was the former level and how was it higher?

then MI5 and the security services have done a fine job i'ld say.

Of what?

Liaising with the Islamic community?

space_man

MuchoLoco wrote: »

Your putting this down to being mentally unstable okay??? Noting got to do with jihadist groups radicalising British Muslims to cause as much terror as they can when they get the opportunity after slipping under the radar

if this was Al Qaeda 'er 'inspired', the as a Muslim fundamentalist i would be deeply embarrassed.

AlekSmart

Latchy wrote: »

If mobile phone /digi cameras weren't around then pretty much nobody would have took pictures of anything today but they do ,simply because they can ,that's the sadder and depressing part of modern human evolution .

So true,take a look at much of the coverage from the early days of the Arab Spring,especially anything to do with a lynching or mob beating....

I noted that in supposedly hugely oppressed and terrorised Libya,huge numbers were able to happily click their way through execution after execution as if their life depended on it.....I found it (and still do) somewhat contradictory to the line being pushed at the time.

hotmail.com

user2011 wrote: »

Cheers, it's just ITV taken ownership of the video so?

I'd say they paid a fee for the video.

user2011

user2011 wrote: »

Cheers, it's just ITV taken ownership of the video so?

The tweeter who put up one of the first images was sent tweets by loads of media outlets asking to use the image. Someone then tweetd them saying they should be getting paid for it. I am sure it is the same for whoever took the video. Maybe ITV pay exclusive rights or just to use it.
https://twitter.com/BietLe_/status/337209208971878400/photo/1

The tweeter, who witnessed the event, is now playing his xbox and tweeting about fifa instead :cool:

Peter The Pedo

Scary that any youth, which he seems, can carry out an attack and claim the act as an act of terrorism. The value of the act, negative or positive, is too easily justified as soon as the Islam jargon is spouted. Just looks like a regular London yoot...

Piliger

space_man wrote: »

this 'operation' wasn't even close to being intelligently 'er planned.
if this is supposed to be Al Qaeda, then they must be scouring mental institutions for recruits.

Duh .. AQ don't organise these kinds of attacks .. AQ is a franchise, an inspirational hate thing .. These kinds of deranged hate filled muslims organise their own attacks and it seems these two were not just sick and twisted but stupid to boot. They seem to have expected to get shot straight away.

I hope to goodness they suffer and stay in prison, in solitary, for the rest of their lives. Better still .. send them to Guantanamo !

if this is the level to which they have sank, then MI5 and the security services have done a fine job i'ld say.

What does that mean ?

Jonny7

space_man wrote: »

some of the biggest nutjobs on the planet are highly articulate.

Sadly, people don't have to be insane or "crazy" to carry out these types of attacks.. just very brainwashed or very (religiously) radicalised

I've read transcripts of pamphlets that were in posession of the 911 hijackers before their attacks - very indoctrinating stuff.. victims are just sheep, who are just having their lives shortened for a much more powerful religious cause, the hijackers own lives are mundane and meaningless, this would give their deaths a religious purpose and so on.

I don't know what drove these guys, but two fairly "nice and relatively normal" brothers blew up people in the US recently, radicalisation within small peer groups, religious groups, online is possible (as shown by the 7/7 bombers and the July 21 failed bombers)

AlekSmart

space_man wrote: »

if this was Al Qaeda 'er 'inspired', the as a Muslim fundamentalist i would be deeply embarrassed.

Why ?

A serving White Infidel British Soldier is sacrificed.

His killers get to make their justification live,on line and uncensored in a manner way beyond anything Al Qaeda has ever managed before in so many attacks where their hate filled diatribes were always subject to some form of proof-viewing by others,be they pro or anti the particular Jihad being pursued.

I's suggest that Al Qaeda's "PR Dept" will take possession of this attack and it's evil perpretrators and use it to the fullest.

Even their Twin Towers spectacular seems staged and Hollywoodish in comparison to the sheer awful reality of this butchery.

Handsome Bob

MuchoLoco wrote: »

Your putting this down to being mentally unstable okay??? Noting got to do with jihadist groups radicalising British Muslims to cause as much terror as they can when they get the opportunity after slipping under the radar

If this was an act of terrorism, then I think mental instability comes into it as well. If you think about it, it's very unlikely that someone of sound mind could be manipulated into committing such a heinous act.

kirb42

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Probably 2 South London crack heads who have never worked a day in their lives. I bet if the footage of the London riots was reviewed again, you'd see them looting on it too.

Allahu Akbar is more than likely the only phrase they know.

Probably True....But today they gained themselves an identity.. as only fools know how....

Latchy

AlekSmart wrote: »

So true,take a look at much of the coverage from the early days of the Arab Spring,especially anything to do with a lynching or mob beating....

I noted that in supposedly hugely oppressed and terrorised Libya,huge numbers were able to happily click their way through execution after execution as if their life depended on it.....I found it (and still do) somewhat contradictory to the line being pushed at the time.[/

The sad realisation of knowing that a large % of humanity on this planet is accustomed to savagery which for many is the norm ,acceptable and the more gruesome the better.

alastair

AlekSmart wrote: »

Even their Twin Towers spectacular seems staged and Hollywoodish in comparison to the sheer awful reality of this butchery.

Congrats on managing to stretch to a new low of idiocy.

These people might well be indoctrinated or they might well be nutters flying under the flag of ideology, but they're not making any sort of impact close to 9/11. Keep in mind that poor woman beheaded in Tenerife last year was killed by a nutjob whose stated goal was to build a new Jerusalem (to clarify: for the Christian side of things - not Islam or Judaism). There's no great lessons to be learned here beyond people can be pretty awful to each other.

space_man

Jonny7 wrote: »

Sadly, people don't have to be insane or "crazy" to carry out these types of attacks.. just very brainwashed or very (religiously) radicalised

I've read transcripts of pamphlets that were in posession of the 911 hijackers before their attacks - very indoctrinating stuff.. victims are just sheep, who are just having their lives shortened for a much more powerful religious cause, the hijackers own lives are mundane and meaningless, this would give their deaths a religious purpose and so on.

I don't know what drove these guys, but two fairly "nice and relatively normal" brothers blew up people in the US recently, radicalisation within small peer groups, religious groups, online is possible (as shown by the 7/7 bombers and the July 21 failed bombers)

disaffected, angry youth have been around long before AQ ever existed.
self-harming and suicidal youth are sadly all too common as well.

GastroBoy

They showed the full mobile cam footage from a bystander on CNN news. Horrific stuff.

space_man

kirb42 wrote: »

Probably True....But today they gained themselves an identity.. as only fools know how....

give it a couple of weeks and nobody will ever know they existed.:D

alexonhisown

The whole thing seems very bizzare.
BBC news just showed a photo of a blonde woman standing face to face talking to one of the guys with a huge bloodied knife in his hand.
If these two guys just butchered someone in the street, would you go over to talk to him.

TheUsual

A copycat attack after Boston I wonder ?

David Cameron saying on TV he beat back the IRA and won.
Right.

snaps

alexonhisown wrote: »

The whole thing seems very bizzare.
BBC news just showed a photo of a blonde woman standing face to face talking to one of the guys with a huge bloodied knife in his hand.
If these two guys just butchered someone in the street, would you go over to talk to him.

bizzare doesn't come close. Seems they wandered around for 20 minutes. I thought police were quick on the scene? Could have been a lot worse if they didn't have that 1 target singled out. All those people, school nearby.

space_man

TheUsual wrote: »

David Cameron saying on TV he beat back the IRA and won.
Right.

they did.
the IRA were forced to lay down their arms.
where is their 32 county Republic?:rolleyes:

user2011

space_man wrote: »

they did.
the IRA were forced to lay down their arms.
where is their 32 county Republic?:rolleyes:

Nope!

AllGunsBlazing

This thread has already begun to derail. Expect a protracted argument over who forced who to the NI negotiation table.

AlekSmart

alastair wrote: »

Congrats on managing to stretch to a new low of idiocy.

These people might well be indoctrinated or they might well be nutters flying under the flag of ideology, but they're not making any sort of impact close to 9/11. Keep in mind that poor woman beheaded in Tenerife last year was killed by a nutjob whose stated goal was to build a new Jerusalem (to clarify: for the Christian side of things - not Islam or Judaism). There's no great lessons to be learned here beyond people can be pretty awful to each other.

You are very kind,thank you,although I think you might be a tad previous in assuming there are no further lessons to be learned from this savagery...I'll wait a wee bit longer before I make my mind up on that.

As for the Impact,again,if it's not too idiotic,lets wait and see whether this will play out in the less strident manner you propose....

Idiotic me ?....well,I see quite a significant risk arising from this unless we start hearing a bit more of this .....

The Muslim Council of Britain also issued statement.

"This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the Armed Forces. Muslims have long served in this country’s Armed Forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the Armed Forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder.

This action will no doubt heighten tensions on the streets of the United Kingdom. We call on all our communities, Muslim and non-Muslim, to come together in solidarity to ensure the forces of hatred do not prevail. It is important we allow our police authorities to do their job without speculation. We also urge the utmost vigilance and ask the police authorities to calm tensions."

Mohammed Shafiq, the head of the Ramadhan Foundation has also criticised the murder of a man in Woolwich by men invoking the name of Allah.

"I wish to condemn the evil and barbaric crime carried out today in Woolwich. Our immediate thoughts are with the family and friends of the victims. From whatever angle you see today's attack it was at every level evil.
We must allow the police to gather all the facts before unnecessary speculation and wait for the facts before determining its impact on our country.
But what happens in the days to come, London and our nation will come together and will not be divided. The terrorists will never win and succeed in their evil plans.
But tonight we think of the family of that soldier killed."

Well done to those Muslim voices for sanity,one would hope that the British media will give these spokespersons the same scope as they regularly afford the "Mad Mullahs" who'se profiles they have so greatly assisted in raising.

pablomakaveli

Can we have at least one thread that doesn't devolve into an IRA/Northern Ireland trainwreck?

Karl Stein

space_man wrote: »

they did.
the IRA were forced to lay down their arms.

I was wondering when this bullshit would start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJGfe0k7rI

OCorcrainn

TheUsual wrote: »

David Cameron saying on TV he beat back the IRA and won.
Right.

space_man wrote: »

they did.
the IRA were forced to lay down their arms.
where is their 32 county Republic?:rolleyes:

You know nothing about the conflict then, everyone knows and the British Army officially said it was a stalemate, they could not defeat them or vice verca (that is what a stalemate is)

Under the GFA agreement the British government, loyalists and unionists fully acknowledged the nationalist aspiration of a united Ireland and enshrined it in the Good Friday Agreement by unity by consent after decades of refusing to acknowledge such nationalist and republican aspirations. Whilst republicans accepted the reality of working with the system in the north to bring about that aspiration someday.

So nobody lost, people who say otherwise portray ignorance and really have no clue what they are talking about.

Now can the usual idiots STFU about Sinn Féin, Irish politics, history, ira etc when it is irrelevant for once in their lives.

LizT

Mod

Can we stop derailing the thread with IRA discussions please?

Amirani

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Can we have at least one thread that doesn't devolve into an IRA/Northern Ireland trainwreck?

This one has potential: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056953747

Cue the nomination of Martin McGuinness...

I really hope I am wrong but tensions are seriously mounting in South London. EDL plan to march through Woolwich and onto a mosque and they appear to be gaining supporters every second. There's plenty of venom being spewed against anyone with a Muslim connection. This will then spill over to black people aswell. There are three types of communities in South East London, 1. those who hate anyone who isn't like them, 2. those who have an underlying hate for anyone not like them and 3. those who just want to get on with life peacefully

The police will have their work cut out for them over the next couple of days. As I say, I really hope that I'm wrong.

AllGunsBlazing

alexonhisown wrote: »

The whole thing seems very bizzare.
BBC news just showed a photo of a blonde woman standing face to face talking to one of the guys with a huge bloodied knife in his hand.
If these two guys just butchered someone in the street, would you go over to talk to him.

The total lack of any urgency from the bystanders is frightening.:(

RasTa

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I really hope I am wrong but tensions are seriously mounting in South London. EDL plan to march through Woolwich and onto a mosque and they appear to be gaining supporters every second. There's plenty of venom being spewed against anyone with a Muslim connection. This will then spill over to black people aswell. There are three types of communities in South East London, 1. those who hate anyone who isn't like them, 2. those who have an underlying hate for anyone not like them and 3. those who just want to get on with life peacefully

The police will have their work cut out for them over the next couple of days. As I say, I really hope that I'm wrong.

This is from someone else but seems to hold true atm

Modern Britain: "There was a beheading in Woolwich." "So? Happens all the time" "Police say this was terrorism." "Fkin Muslims! Get em out!"

AlekSmart

snaps wrote: »

bizzare doesn't come close. Seems they wandered around for 20 minutes. I thought police were quick on the scene? Could have been a lot worse if they didn't have that 1 target singled out. All those people, school nearby.

It appears that unarmed Police were on the scene quite rapidly,but were standing-off following reports of the attackers having a firearm.

It was only after the arrival of a Tactical Firearms Unit that confrontation began.

It appears that the two attackers fulfilled much of their intentions,particularly as many reports seem to indicate they were not interested in fleeing the scene,but instead got the Police response they sought.

omega man

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

The total lack of any urgency from the bystanders is frightening.:(

Did anyone try to help the poor man?? I appreciate they were armed but come on, surely someone wanted or tried to intervene. I really hope the guy was dead or unconscious after he was hit by the car. I'll hold back on what I think of those "men" who carried out this act of pure savagery. My thoughts and prayers are with this poor man and his family. Rip

Stev_o

Go go world media.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/28/teen-dies-after-stabbing-in-pimlico-london-3369513/

All they had to do was say God was great and they'd be terrorists too.

Yamanoto

The guy seems extraordinarily calm, considering he's just murdered someone.

Fcuking loser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB31aqyw05Q

Piliger

omega man wrote: »

Did anyone try to help the poor man?? I appreciate they were armed but come on, surely someone wanted or tried to intervene. I really hope the guy was dead or unconscious after he was hit by the car. I'll hold back on what I think of those "men" who carried out this act of pure savagery. My thoughts and prayers are with this poor man and his family. Rip

He had been decapitated.
I believe these bystanders were confused and in a state of shock. Some thought that these men had been helping the man after being hit by the car ... others I imagine were just in shock because they were seeing something that simply did not 'compute' on a normal street in London. I don't blame them.

Stev_o

In terrorism, World Media is the terrorists greatest weapon.

AllGunsBlazing

Maybe this incident is also providing an insight into how desensitized people have become to acts of violence. Sky news is like a 24 hour snuff channel most of the time

nocoverart

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Maybe this incident is also providing an insight into how desensitized people have become to acts of violence. Sky news is like a 24 hour snuff channel most of them time.

Hence your name maybe?

space_man

Stev_o wrote: »

Go go world media.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/01/28/teen-dies-after-stabbing-in-pimlico-london-3369513/

All they had to do was say God was great and they'd be terrorists too.

sad but true.
crap like this is a regular occurrence in many parts of London, much of it goes largely unreported.

AllGunsBlazing

nocoverart wrote: »

Hence your name maybe?

A reference to my being a boyhood arsenal fan.

biko

An interesting video of what terrorism is

Einhard

MuchoLoco wrote: »

There is only going to be more of these self radical attacks due to the huge amount of Muslims in England.

Considering that this "huge amount of Muslims in England" didn't arrive yesterday, but have been there for many years, it's somewhat surprising that there haven't been more of these attacks, wouldn't you say?

I doubt I'd be wrong in stating that the people who make these kind of comments don't actually know any Muslims. So easy to tar an entire group of people when you don't know or interact with them eh?

discus

Yamanoto wrote: »

The guy seems extraordinarily calm, considering he's just murdered someone.

Fcuking loser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB31aqyw05Q

WHY ARE PEOPLE JUST STANDING THERE? They've just witnessed a murder!

FTA69

omega man wrote: »

Did anyone try to help the poor man?? I appreciate they were armed but come on, surely someone wanted or tried to intervene. I really hope the guy was dead or unconscious after he was hit by the car. I'll hold back on what I think of those "men" who carried out this act of pure savagery. My thoughts and prayers are with this poor man and his family. Rip

Who in their right mind is going to tackle two big black fellas with meat cleavers who have just carved a man up? I wouldn't and neither would you. The vast majority wouldn't intervene in an average fight, never mind tackle two murderers armed to the teeth.