primetime 27-5-13 creche expose [read mod notes in post #4 and #434]

ene

i work in a creche and we were warned today that secret video footage from a number of creches is to be aired on primetime on monday night.

We have been told that the creches involved are:
giraffe,
[mod snip - only Giraffe has been named in the press]

Apparently there will be some really upsetting things shown and there will be a backlash based on it.

We only know about it as it has been leaked.

This is the only article i can find so far....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-and-hse-to-probe-creche-after-rte-sting-29288170.html

GARDAI and the HSE are investigating allegations of poor quality of care at a south Dublin creche.

Two members of staff have been suspended at the Giraffe creche in Stepaside.

The probe is based on footage secretly filmed at the Giraffe creche by a TV researcher posing as a care worker.

It allegedly shows substandard practice and quality of care.

The Herald understands that RTE’s Prime Time programme plans to broadcast an expose on standards of care at more than one creche in Dublin.

The HSE’s Children and Family Services unit has confirmed to the Herald that the creche, is under investigation. “We received a report yesterday regarding the independent childcare facility in south Dublin.

“The HSE Children and Family services are working with An Garda Siochana to review the report and make an assessment with respect to any child welfare and protection concerns,” a HSE spokesperson said.

Gardai confirmed that they are making inquiries into allegations about two creches, one on Dublin’s northside, which the Herald understands is not a Giraffe centre, and another on the southside.

A statement issued on behalf of Giraffe confirmed it is examining a complaint that was brought to the attention of the HSE in late April by an ex-employee.

Complaint

“We are taking this complain very seriously,” said a Giraffe spokesperson.

“As a precautionary measure, we have suspended the two members of staff named in the complaint while we examine the matter and establish the facts,” they added.

Giraffe raised concerns that the complaints had been filed by an RTE researcher working undercover as an employee, who had “purported to be an edu-carer”.

“Last Sunday evening, we discovered that the researcher had also secretly filmed while she was in the centre, but did not supply the footage to the HSE or to Giraffe.

“We have made numerous requests for the footage over the past two days so that we can review and assess the situation, and we still have not received the material.

Sheep Shagger

Daughter is in one the crèches that had the undercover investigation.

From what we know (which isn't a lot as they won't show footage to the crèches management or even the HSE) is that (in our case anyway) its not as bad as first thought.

Have been told the following was 'identified' (all was in one room only)

Shouting at kids
Kids sleeping on mats and not mattresses
Making kids stay seated for up to two hours over the course of a day

In our case when the issues were raised the staff member concerned was moved, they have also replaced the mats with mattresses (this is HSE best practice only).

The HSE/Gards have given our crèche three months to respond (to me this says the issues are not major), management are doing so by the end of this week.

They are installing CCTV throughout the centre and will change some other internal procedures.

RTE are asking parents of kids in the room if their faces can be uncovered when I goes to air to give 'maximum impact' real tabloid TV in my opinion.

Really feel for the centre stuff who are as expected quite upset with how things have unfolded, some kids were taken out of the centre earlier in the week by parents but seem to be returning now...

ene

From the information we have been told some of the things that were seen are pretty bad.

[mod snip]

Both of these things is really shocking to me anyway

Orion

We (the mods) discussed this earlier today when the story broke and liaised with the office. Conclusion is that discussion around this at the moment is fine but there are constraints. Discussing what's in the public domain is fine. Unsubstantiated allegations are not. In other words, to quote the bosses, discussion as to what is on the TV show (when it airs) and any reports on it rather than speculating beyond that is allowed.

Posts will be snipped (such as the OP) to remove anything that could land boards in trouble legally. That includes naming creches that have not been named elsewhere and allegations of abuse without proof or reference.

We understand this is going to be emotive so it's best to lay the line out now rather than clamping down later.

If, at any stage, this becomes under the auspices of the courts we will have to close discussions on it.

Nordieboy

My wife and I removed our son from the Giraffe in question, back in Feb 12. We complained to the HSE, who arranged a scheduled visit to the creche. They then told us that there was nothing to worry about.
We complained of incorrect staff ratios, hygiene issues and staff shouting at the children.
Our son's new creche has been brilliant for the last 13 or 14 months. We are so glad we acted when we did.

josip

Our child is also in a Giraffe creche and when we were notified today by the creche I had mixed feelings about it. The alleged abuse will I expect be addressed in due course. What I am a bit concerned about was the role of RTE.

What is known in the public domain, is that a TV researcher, presumably an RTE employee, contractor or someone working under the direction of RTE posed undercover as a creche worker for 6 weeks. I have the following questions which maybe some boarders can answer.

1. If there were concerns about creche standards and that was why RTE commissioned the work, why wasn't this investigated by the HSE/Gardai?
2. If RTE commissioned the program without the suspicion in advance of any abuse/irregularities, what was their motivation for making the programme?
3. Did the TV researcher have all the necessary qualifications to be a care worker? I would assume she did, as Giraffe in our creche said that everyone has them.
4. During the 6 weeks, was the TV researcher's primary motivation the gathering of material for the TV programme or the care of the children, possibly up to 6, entrusted to her?
5. In our Giraffe creche it is policy not to permit photograph's/filming of the children, except for open occasions such as Santa. Did RTE have permission to film the children in the creche and how would they get permission to air the program even with blurred faces? Many friends/family could still identify little Johnny/Mary from the street who goes to that creche. In particular the RTE programme makers guidelines, http://www.rte.ie/documents/about/programmemakersguidelines.pdf ,states: "Special consideration has to be given to interviewing children. In almost all cases the consent of parents or guardians has to be obtained...Similar caution needs to be applied when recording in a school or classroom. Teacher's or principal's consent may be sufficient in a non-controversial context"
   

I'm not pro Giraffe. I frequently think that their staffing ratios are tight and very often at shoulder periods the 2nd minder is absent leaving a sole carer in charge of a room of 10 children for a period of time.

But I also see the difficult situations they have to manage on a daily basis and I know that I'd never be able to do what they do for half an hour, let alone day after day.

I'm definitely not pro RTE. Their raison d'etre is to sell advertising slots. The more interesting a program is, the easier it is to sell.

It'll be interesting to see what's in the program if and when it does air.

Lola92

The independant report said that one of the creche's in question had been reported to the HSE last month by a former employee. That, to me, speaks real volumes.

I feel for the parents and children in the creche, and the other staff members, many of whom I'm sure are competent and caring professionals.

Orion

Lola92 wrote: »

The independant report said that one of the creche's in question had been reported to the HSE last month by a former employee. That, to me, speaks real volumes.

I feel for the parents and children in the creche, and the other staff members, many of whom I'm sure are competent and caring professionals.

The former employee is the rte reporter.

Lola92

Orion wrote: »

The former employee is the rte reporter.

Oh okay, thanks for clarifying Orion.

rosaleen mac

Lola92 wrote: »

The independant report said that one of the creche's in question had been reported to the HSE last month by a former employee. That, to me, speaks real volumes.

I feel for the parents and children in the creche, and the other staff members, many of whom I'm sure are competent and caring professionals.

I believe that the 'former employee' was actually the RTE undercover reporter who 'worked ' there for a few weeks. During her employment she spent her time filming secretly as opposed to working and making the required contribution to the staff : children ratio, thus deliberately aggravating the situation and orchestrating a sub-standard quality of child-care

Nordieboy

Seriously 'josip' those are the questions you are asking? I asked myself, was my child shouted at? Was my child strapped into a chair for hours? And similar questions.
1 I know this creche was at least contacted after I complained to the hse, but they arrange scheduled visits. From my experience with the staff there, they were very good talkers.
2 are expose programs not in the good of public knowledge? What would senior care homes be like without the expose programs done on them?
3 if your giraffe are saying all staff are fully qualified, I'm sure that's right then. Its not like they have anything to hide.
4 you are questioning the care given to children by an investigator, there investigating possible abuse of children (minimum abuse of parents trust)
5 seriuosly?
I am definitely anti Giraffe and am awaiting the program to see how badly run the facility was and to see potentially how my child was treated there.

Nordieboy

Rosaleen - seriously? I agree it was all the investigators fault. Those pesky reporters.

josip

Nordieboy, I think that since your child was in that particular creche, you're in a much better position to comment on the issue than me. Especially, since I have no knowledge of specifics of what was happening. But I would be a lot more comfortable if it had been a HSE employee or Garda that had gone in there undercover. I also think that a scheduled visit is worthless and that the HSE are naiive if they believe otherwise.

rosaleen mac

The majority of crèche workers are only interested in doing a good job minding children as they have been trained to do. Where there are 2 workers in a room and one is an undercover reporter not present to do childcare work but to work as a reporter, the extra burden placed on the REAL worker immediately creates a false scenario .

celticwe

rosaleen mac wrote: »

The majority of crèche workers are only interested in doing a good job minding children as they have been trained to do. Where there are 2 workers in a room and one is an undercover reporter not present to do childcare work but to work as a reporter, the extra burden placed on the REAL worker immediately creates a false scenario .

Howye giraffe,join date may 2013 hmmmmm


*mod note*
Please report a post or a poster if you have an issue with them

rosaleen mac

I have absolutely no connection with Giraffe if that is what you are suggesting, just find tabloid journalism wrong and the motivation here is very suspect at a time when RTE is under attack re ridiculous budget shortfalls in spite of massive public funding. RTE were not so correct re the priest in Africa they accused of fathering a child by a young girl if you remember

Orion

celticwe wrote: »

Howye giraffe,join date may 2013 hmmmmm

Attack the post not the poster. If you've a problem with either use the report post button

Moonbeam

Todays news report names another creche aswell -
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/creches-are-probed-by-gardai-hse-over-claims-children-mishandled-29289672.html

Orion

The Irish Times has picked it up as well.

bumper234

Hi.

So yeah i am a newbie but felt i should throw in my 2 cents worth here and try to get some facts out there. My partner is a manager for Giraffe and we have been talking about this last night. Firstly the accusations are for children being shouted at and being left in chairs too long. Lets get some things straight though. The undercover reporter was in a room and supposed to be helping another educarer but was in fact not pulling her weight. This put the other educarer under undue stress as she was having to do more work. Also what i am sure RTE will fail to mention is that the girl was already under personal stress as her Mother has terminal cancer and really didn't need someone who was supposed to be working along side shirking on the work load just so she could collect (illegally) good footage?

Should she have snapped and shouted at the child for putting his hands in the food? No of course not. Can any of us who have children honestly say that we have not at some time or other shouted at our child? Imagine what it's like when dealing with 10 kids and your so called support is basically got an ulterior motive. I know some will come on here and shout "shill" but that's the nature of people. My children are in a giraffe creche and there is no way they would be staying there if i thought for one second that they were not getting great care and attention from the staff. One bad decision by a staff member over the space of 6 weeks should not ruin the reputation of the hundreds of other staff who do great work day in and day out.

Mods feel free to pm me if you wish to confirm that i do not and never have worked for giraffe or any other childcare company (trust me you will know after 5 seconds lol)

mathie

Moonbeam wrote: »

Todays news report names another creche aswell -
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/creches-are-probed-by-gardai-hse-over-claims-children-mishandled-29289672.html

"another is the Links creche at Abington in Malahide."

Nordieboy

I'm sure the vast majority of creche workers are good, decent and honest people, trying to do their best in a tough environment.
Given the times, we all are.
However, abusing another persons child, in whatever manner for whatever circumstances is horrific! Minimum, the individual concerned in bumpers post, should have been offered time off due to stress, if the managers saw that her personal life was so stressful to be affecting her work with the children.

I'm typing from personal experience of this facility and I too can provide a paper trail of emails and communications to anyone who wishes to contest this.

My wife saw a child vomit, a staff member clean it up and then without cleaning their hands, pick up and play with two children. In Feb 2012 my wife heard a staff member shouting fiercely at a child. In Feb 2012 I dropped my son off at creche on 3 occasions where the staff ratio was wrong. I waited to speak to a manager for 30 minutes. I left my phone number. I had to call the creche 3 times to get someone to talk to me. I sent emails to Giraffe Head Office and after receiving no satisfaction I removed my son from the creche.

This has been going on longer than any 6 week period! I am sick to my stomach when I think of what the staff were doing or could have done.

Moonbeam

I don't think we should we jumping to any conclusions until we know the full story.
The allegations that have been made public so far are far from best practice and what is best for the child but are also not classed as abuse.
One bad creche worker can get a creche a bad name but in a lot of these creches there might be 10 rooms and in the other 9 things might be perfect.

I also had kids in Giraffe and could not have been happier with them.

AlanG

I must say it is great that RTE have exposed this. I have spoken to one of the parents that viewed the footage from the Links and the reports in the Indo of children being mishandled is certainly correct. Clearly posters and reports have to be careful what is reported but it is my understanding that there are likely to be a number of civil cases arising from the footage.

I have only visited the Links twice – the first time was to view the crèche and before we were shown any facilities or told about their care program we were given a price list and told by the staff member to “make sure you can afford it”. The second time was three years later to see about after school care and during the tour we went into one class during “story time”. Half of the class were sitting too far away to see the book and the lady giving the tour stood in the class talking to us and disturbing the class for about 5 minutes until I walked out in embarrassment at our interruption of the class. It was nothing specifically wrong but it did make me doubt that there was a child first mentality for all staff in the crèche.

Personally I think that due to the lack of government support or tax relief for child care it must be remarkably difficult to pay the staff well and turn a profit while staying within regulated staff ratios over a 12 hour day. Government policy makes it almost inevitable that corners will be cut is some establishments.

bumper234

Nordieboy wrote: »

I'm sure the vast majority of creche workers are good, decent and honest people, trying to do their best in a tough environment.
Given the times, we all are.
However, abusing another persons child, in whatever manner for whatever circumstances is horrific! Minimum, the individual concerned in bumpers post, should have been offered time off due to stress, if the managers saw that her personal life was so stressful to be affecting her work with the children.

Seriously? So if i shout at my son that is abuse and the police should be called? I understand that it's not their child but calling it abuse is taking it a bit far, Also the management didn't give her time off as she did not request it and you cannot force someone to take time off.

Nordieboy wrote: »

I'm typing from personal experience of this facility and I too can provide a paper trail of emails and communications to anyone who wishes to contest this.

My wife saw a child vomit, a staff member clean it up and then without cleaning their hands, pick up and play with two children. In Feb 2012 my wife heard a staff member shouting fiercely at a child. In Feb 2012 I dropped my son off at creche on 3 occasions where the staff ratio was wrong. I waited to speak to a manager for 30 minutes. I left my phone number. I had to call the creche 3 times to get someone to talk to me. I sent emails to Giraffe Head Office and after receiving no satisfaction I removed my son from the creche.

This has been going on longer than any 6 week period! I am sick to my stomach when I think of what the staff were doing or could have done.

And you are basing your opinions on events that happened over a year ago also i can assure you that management has been changed since Feb 2012 so your point is pretty irrelevant.

josip

Nordieboy wrote: »

2 are expose programs not in the good of public knowledge? What would senior care homes be like without the expose programs done on them?

Your second statement is the reason I have concerns about RTE Prime Time. Your statement implies that all senior care homes were deficient prior to their programme on Leas Cross and other homes.

If someone of a similar mindset views the RTE Prime Time next Monday, they could form an identical impression that all creches are like that televised, including the one with which you have been very happy for the last 13-14 months.

And they are then free to spread that opinion on the internet.

Regarding your first statement, was Prime Time "expose" good for Fr Kevin Reynolds?

dub_skav

I don't believe any defense should be drawn from the fact that the reporter was not pulling their weight and leaving the other worker under pressure.
This reporter was working there 6 weeks and presumably hired new, either as an employee with no experience or as an employee with unchecked references. It is possible that the reporter was actually an experienced child care worker, we shall see, but I'm not sure how likely that is.

With any of the above possibilities, this was a new employee to this creche. So, either they were given too much responsibility immediately without proving themselves, which lead to their co-worker being under pressure, or there was an extra member of staff in the room while they were trained up, in which case the co-worker should not have been under pressure.

If they were put in place and given responsibility immediately, that shows poor hiring/staffing practice by Giraffe.
If they were not pulling their weight / appearing incompetent in front of 2 other staff, then that shows poor staff retention policies by giraffe.

So, if you ask me any circumstance where this person's presence contributed to poor treatment reflects badly on giraffe.

I will be interested to watch the show and see how this plays out.

January

dub_skav wrote: »

I don't believe any defense should be drawn from the fact that the reporter was not pulling their weight and leaving the other worker under pressure.
This reporter was working there 6 weeks and presumably hired new, either as an employee with no experience or as an employee with unchecked references. It is possible that the reporter was actually an experienced child care worker, we shall see, but I'm not sure how likely that is.

With any of the above possibilities, this was a new employee to this creche. So, either they were given too much responsibility immediately without proving themselves, which lead to their co-worker being under pressure, or there was an extra member of staff in the room while they were trained up, in which case the co-worker should not have been under pressure.

If they were put in place and given responsibility immediately, that shows poor hiring practice by Giraffe.
If they were not pulling their weight / appearing incompetent in front of 2 other staff, then that shows poor staff retention policies by giraffe.

So, if you ask me any circumstance where this person's presence contributed to poor treatment reflects badly on giraffe.

I will be interested to watch the show and see how this plays out.

It's been noted in the media that the reporter had the relevant FETAC qualifications to work in the creche and also that they made the report to the HSE under those qualifications.

Moonbeam

http://www.earlychildhoodireland.ie/childcare-making-primetime-headlines-for-the-wrong-reasons/

This is worth reading

dub_skav

January wrote: »

It's been noted in the media that the reporter had the relevant FETAC qualifications to work in the creche and also that they made the report to the HSE under those qualifications.

Thanks for the clarification, still a new member of staff though.

I have worked with lots of qualified people over the years who were useless.

So, either the reporter was not doing their job properly and should not have had too much responsibility, or they were doing their job properly and not adding extra strain to the co-worker.

Nordieboy

Bumper - you can shout at your child. Would you allow a person shout at them in the street? Shouting at a child, where the child is likely not to comprehend the words, just the tone IMO is abuse. Abuse is not physical in many cases.
Regarding the time off - any manager worth their salt (I accept your partner works for Giraffe) if they noted that an individual was struggling should speak and offer time off. Even if it was taking the individual aside to discuss their situation. Empathy.
I accept what you are saying about management at a local level changing. Changing personnel doesn't always mean a change in ethos. Again I accept your partner works for Giraffe and I'm not trying to damn Giraffe. Just using my own experiences dating back almost 18 months to show that this was not an issue created over 6 weeks that an investigator was present.

Josip - I accept that people have their own motivations and can slant findings to lend weight to any argument. I am referring to this creche and my own experiences of it. If that has not come across in my typing, I'm not sure how I can be plainer.