primetime 27-5-13 creche expose [read mod notes in post #4 and #434]

gabrielIT

This is what they said at the beginning of the programme. possibly they did improve or they were minor things.

my point is that, for instance, I discovered tonight that my little one creche was found in breach of regulation 5 and 9 ! this information is not readily available and when I was looking for information the only one i got was trough parents going there and telling me that they had a good experience ( or sadly maybe they thought they had..)

tonight it will not be easy for us to sleep.

MistyCheese

The irony of one worker referring to the toddlers as "little bullies" as she manhandles vulnerable infants who are too young to even report mistreatment to anyone.

And the image of that child being flung onto a mat on the floor will stay with me for a while.

paul71

gabrielIT wrote: »

This is what they said at the beginning of the programme. possibly they did improve or they were minor things.

my point is that, for instance, I discovered tonight that my little one creche was found in breach of regulation 5 and 9 ! this information is not readily available and when I was looking for information the only one i got was trough parents going there and telling me that they had a good experience ( or sadly maybe they thought they had..)

tonight it will not be easy for us to sleep.

Apparently HSE inspection reports are going to be published on the internet in the future, in the meantime if I had a child in a creche I would ask the creche to show me a copy of their most recent HSE report and if they refuse I would tell them that I am removing my child unless they show it to me.

Nordieboy

Info, or at least reliable info is very hard to find. They are talking of publishing the inspector records.

Be interesting to see if any creches published the reports themselves.

gabrielIT

implausible wrote: »

€9- €12/hr is not an adequate wage for someone who is caring for and educating your child. It is not a wage that tells you that your work is valued and important.

Apart from the abuse shown on this programme, what came across strongly to me was the apathy of the workers. The ones featured were demotivated and disengaged to the point of forgetting that the people in their care were individual little human beings.

This and the profit-making impulse of their employers are not conducive to a good environment for child or worker.

I feel desperately sorry for the parents whose children were in the créches featured and for all the fantastic childcare workers out there who give their all and who may face questions and suspicion tomorrow.

I do agree totally with you on all points.
what is the way forward? maybe trying to see what successful countries are doing in the long term. in the short to mid term implementing a mandatory retraining and upskilling scheme of existing staff (min level 5 fetac) with a pay scale system linked to qualifications and mandatory video cameras accessible by the parents.
If Private child care owners are profit oriented there is nothing bad about this as long as they do respect legislations and regulations. if this means they would go out of business i could not care less.

Emmyt

Nordieboy wrote: »

Info, or at least reliable info is very hard to find. They are talking of publishing the inspector records.

They've been saying that for years - still waiting!

gabrielIT

paul71 wrote: »

Apparently HSE inspection reports are going to be published on the internet in the future, in the meantime if I had a child in a creche I would ask the creche to show me a copy of their most recent HSE report and if they refuse I would tell them that I am removing my child unless they show it to me.

and this is exactly what i will do tomorrow. but then i would also be forced to take my son out as the trust is gone already.....

Sparks

Nordieboy wrote: »

Info, or at least reliable info is very hard to find.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/yourhealthservice/info/FOI/Making_a_Request/

Print out the form, fill it in, ask for the last five (or however many you want) years of HSE inspection reports into the creche you're considering, stick €15 in the envelope, put it in the post, wait a while, get the reports.

These are not confidential.
Your creche should have (and be happy to give you) their last inspection report (and by law cannot edit it).

Nordieboy

I think this RTE investigation will force their hands to act. Hopefully in many positive ways.

paul71

Nordieboy wrote: »

I think this RTE investigation will force their hands to act. Hopefully in many positive ways.

More likely it will be the natural process of evolution (survival of the fittest) that will ensure an improvement in standards. I expect that parents will be more demanding, ask to see HSE reports, select creches with the best compliance history move their children and the drop in income will force the bad ones into liquidation.

Sparks

Nordieboy wrote: »

I think this RTE investigation will force their hands to act. Hopefully in many positive ways.

If we see a large spike in HSE funding from the government, yes. Otherwise, I won't be holding my breath for any major changes. All the stuff RTE was talking about, it wasn't wrong, but if you want to fix it, the first thing you'll need is money, and if that's not forthcoming, anything else you do is just fooling yourself. I mean, you could pass far more restrictive laws in the morning, but without money, you can't enforce them, you can't train people up to the new standards, you can't inspect often enough to detect noncompliances... you see what I mean?

Personally, I'll just keep doing what we've been doing from the start - watching our son, moving him if we see a problem, getting to know his carers, and watching the HSE reports.

Nordieboy

Great advice Sparks!

mcgiggy

Does anyone have a link to this episode of Prime Time? It doesn't seem to be on the RTE Player yet??? Just the analysis episode?

Roots-Sinead

Missed the 'Investigates' programme as was working. Does anyone know where I could watch it again? Only the analysis show is on RTE Player.....

Paddy James

We had our kids in a creche in mayo, disaster from day one.
Starved
No nap time
Constantly vomiting from crying
Left in wet nappies
Toys taken away
There own snacks we gave taken away from them
A full packet of wipes used per day that we supplied as other kids fired them around the place !
Sink was actually black was so dirty
Could go on and I genuinely have not heard of one single creche where the likes of this doesn't go on. Personally I wouldn't let our dog into a crèche as genuinely there are plenty more whistleblowers that are going to appear and this story is tip of the iceberg

I know of another in mayo where kids were left in cots most of day and another where worked would smash the toys against a wall!

Paddy James

Nordieboy wrote: »

Great advice Sparks!

My opinion is the reports are one thing but you need camera access while your child there simple as.

I am telling ye this is the tip of the iceberg this is going on in an awful lot of crèches and a lot are overcrowded and run down

Time will tell if I am right

mcgiggy

According to the Journal Website - "The station has promised parents it will only broadcast the programme once and it will not by uploaded to the RTE Player"

Paddy James

Nordieboy wrote: »

Great advice Sparks!

Don't agree on great advice

For gods sake these people are animals how can you train them? They shouldn't be even allowed to take care of animals never mind kids.

This is not about money it's about respect for young helpless kids money doesn't come into it as any normal person wouldn't treat a child in this fashion and anyone that does deserve to have the law fired at them

Fair play to rte for highlighting scum like this and the owners of these premises are living the high life on the back of young kids been abused

xlaurenx

that was real footage of a real child been slammed onto their bed in a vicious manner. no excuses.

Sparks

Paddy James wrote: »

This is not about money it's about respect for young helpless kids money doesn't not come into it as any normal person wouldn't not treat a child in this fashion and anyone that does deserve to have the law fired at them

You're confusing the problem with the solution.

Paddy James

xlaurenx wrote: »

that was real footage of a real child been slammed onto their bed in a vicious manner. no excuses.

Here here and anyone here that says otherwise is worse

My blood is boiling can't sleep:mad:

mcgiggy

If anyone knows of a link to stream it - pls upload or pls share

Paddy James

Sparks wrote: »

You're confusing the problem with the solution.

Sorry but money not solution. You simply can't have animals minding kids. No one treats a kid like that.

Plenty of money put into primary and second level education but that's for another thread what has gone on and going on there

Please explain your solution as to me it's simply sacked them closed down those premises and banned for life from going near kids

That's the solution and not listening to a story re educating theses people pay them more etc for gods sake you simply can't do this to a helpless child it's common sense that you can't treat a child in that manner and obviously they are the type of people that do this so common sense is they can't go near kids. :mad:

Paddy James

mcgiggy wrote: »

If anyone knows of a link to stream it - pls upload or pls share

Genuinely you are better of not seeing it. Images will never leave me it's disgusting

It's animals attacking kids and these animals are employed by people who have profited on misery

Closed them down

Sparks

Paddy James wrote: »

Sorry but money not solution.

It's necessary for the solution. Unless there's money, there's no solution.

You simply can't have animals minding kids. No one treats a kid like that.

Grand. Now. How do you intend to ensure that never happens again?

Inspections cost money.
Enforcement costs money.
You can write a law tomorrow saying it's illegal, but unless someone's out there enforcing it, it's worthless.

On the other hand, just give money to the HSE and change nothing else and the inspection rate goes up, noncompliances are found faster, and companies get away with less.

Money not only is the best solution, it's the only one worth a damn.

nesf

Paddy James wrote: »

Sorry but money not solution. You simply can't have animals minding kids. No one treats a kid like that.

Just pumping in money is not a solution, I think we'd all agree with that but reforming the sector, better training, enforcing existing or new laws? They all require money and not trivial sums of it.

It does nothing for the State to say you cannot do X, if they don't spend money to make inspections happen. Similar to how all the traffic laws in the world don't matter a damn if you've not paid Gardaí to be on the roads enforcing them.

Old_-_School

It was the most disturbing show I've seen relating to childcare since The Hand That Rocks The Cradle!

Calhoun

nesf wrote: »

Just pumping in money is not a solution, I think we'd all agree with that but reforming the sector, better training, enforcing existing or new laws? They all require money and not trivial sums of it.

It does nothing for the State to say you cannot do X, if they don't spend money to make inspections happen. Similar to how all the traffic laws in the world don't matter a damn if you've not paid Gardaí to be on the roads enforcing them.

They really need to evaluate the whole model, I think pumping money into training for private run establishments while parents are paying upward to a grand a month is wrong .

However there needs to be a proper debate on what to do with the whole sector .

wherswally

pippip wrote: »

My son goes to one of the other links crèches.
...
What I'm feeling now is that he is safer in this crèche that has had its name highlighted than another crèche that slipped under this report which has no need to alter anything.

I completely agree, I am in the same situation and although it is horrifying to find out about this situation, I feel more at ease that giraffe and links are in the process of changing things and from now on will be under much closer inspection, as opposed to other creches not mentioned in the investigation who got off scot-free and may not change their ways.

RTE had negative comments about each creche that was investigated, but what worries me is the other creches who haven't been investigated as of yet. What if parents move their children from the mentioned creches into other creches not mentioned on primetime, only for the other creches to behave much worse?

I only wish RTE had gone into every creche in the country as to expose the worst culprits, instead of just going to the most convenient locations.
Having said that, I am still glad that any ill-fitting employees in both Giraffe and Links have brought to light, and fired, no doubt.

I just hope that all creches learn from this experience and evaluate/make necessary changes accordingly, instead of just the creches mentioned.

fisher8181

wherswally wrote: »

, I am still glad that any ill-fitting employees in both Giraffe and Links have brought to light, and fired, no doubt.
.

They have not been fired, just suspended!!