primetime 27-5-13 creche expose [read mod notes in post #4 and #434]

Macy0161

bumper234 wrote: »

Ok

So you know that tomorrow morning you are going to have xxx amount of children in the creche so you arrange to have xx staff working. 7 am rolls around and 2 of your staff call in sick (this happens in every workplace where bugs get passed around) Are you trying to say your company has EXTRA staff on the payroll sitting at home waiting for the call? Fwiw i know for a fact that giraffe will allow staff to transfer from one creche to another for a day or two if the are considered "spare"

Have temps on call, or close a room (with the financial consequences from parents). I don't expect them to operate with below the regulated number of staff in any room, at any time. It's the responsibility of management/ owners to have a contigency plan in such cases, or build in the costs, rather than plough ahead with a ratio that doesn't meet the regulations.

bumper234

josip wrote: »

I've just had a WTF moment reading the other thread on this in After Hours

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84850963&postcount=216

Can anyone enlighten me as the whether these 9 interns will count as part of the minder-child ratio in Giraffe Sandyford? Bumper, you would seem to be in the know here?

Just rang the Mrs and as far as she knows/is concerned these will NOT be considered as staff/on ratio. The will be working alongside regular staff but will not be classed as giraffe employees and therefore cannot be classed as "on ratio". This is her opinion only that i am passing along and if anyone wishes to get further information i suggest ringing giraffe head office and asking them.

bumper234

Macy0161 wrote: »

Have temps on call, or close a room (with the financial consequences from parents).

So you say pay temps to stay at home waiting for a call or have people waiting at home and only get paid IF they work? Either way do you really think either of those options would be viable for either a company or a "temp"

Macy0161 wrote: »

I don't expect them to operate with below the regulated number of staff in any room, at any time. It's the responsibility of management/ owners to have a contigency plan in such cases, or build in the costs, rather than plough ahead with a ratio that doesn't meet the regulations.

I know that sometimes my partner has had to go into rooms and work on staff until another staff member could get there from another creche but sometimes a room maybe under ratio for an hour or two until staff who have called in sick could be replaced. even having temps at home waiting for a call would sill take time for them to get there.

If RTE girl left room to film around creche does this not mean she left the room under ratio?

lazygal

bumper234 wrote: »

If RTE girl left room to film around creche does this not mean she left the room under ratio?

Proper management should have spotted that either the staff member wasn't doing their job or the ratios weren't being adhered to. I worked for a provider that paid people to be on call for emergencies, you can't ignore the rules on ratios because you think its too expensive or inefficient, rules are rules and services have to abide by them. And I'm talking about a different, older cohort who might have been ok with a larger ratio, not babies/toddlers which need far more individualised care from adults. If you want to operate in the business, don't complain about the costs of doing so when it comes to children and their wellbeing.

bumper234

lazygal wrote: »

Proper management should have spotted that either the staff member wasn't doing their job or the ratios weren't being adhered to. I worked for a provider that paid people to be on call for emergencies, you can't ignore the rules on ratios because you think its too expensive or inefficient, rules are rules and services have to abide by them. And I'm talking about a different, older cohort who might have been ok with a larger ratio, not babies/toddlers which need far more individualised care from adults. If you want to operate in the business, don't complain about the costs of doing so when it comes to children and their wellbeing.

I agree with you and if i recall correctly Belarmine has not had a full time manager for some time now (one manager has been "running" two creches and obviously this has had an adverse affect on the staff not doing the jobs they are paid to do.

Sparks

bumper234 wrote: »

I agree with you and if i recall correctly Belarmine has not had a full time manager for some time now (one manager has been "running" two creches and obviously this has had an adverse affect on the staff not doing the jobs they are paid to do.

Really? Every morning I went in there, there were one or two staff in the manager's office (the two J's for those who know the place). And the times they weren't in the office, I'd usually run into them in the rooms. If they weren't full time managers, they did a good job of looking the part.

iguana

bumper234 wrote: »

So you say pay temps to stay at home waiting for a call or have people waiting at home and only get paid IF they work? Either way do you really think either of those options would be viable for either a company or a "temp"

Yup, 100%, absolutely. The odds are that quite a bit of the time you will have at least 1 or 2 staff members out sick so you ensure you have enough extra staff to cover for them. That's the cost of doing business, it's just how it works. Just like how a landlord always has to replace broken appliances even if it eats all of his profit for the year or a shop has to pay it's staff for a day where nobody bought enough products to cover the wage bill. Businesses don't get to decide not to meet their legal requirements because it costs too much.

bumper234

Sparks wrote: »

Really? Every morning I went in there, there were one or two staff in the manager's office (the two J's for those who know the place). And the times they weren't in the office, I'd usually run into them in the rooms. If they weren't full time managers, they did a good job of looking the part.

I have been informed that the manager used to open up then zip across to another creche for the day. It even stated in the RTE prog that there was no manager there

Sparks

bumper234 wrote: »

I have been informed that the manager used to open up then zip across to another creche for the day. It even stated in the RTE prog that there was no manager there

That's possible - but it's not quite open the doors and then leg it, because depending on whether it was Herself or myself taking our son in, his arrival time varied from before eight to anything up to some time after eleven (I work with a team in Toronto so my office hours are timeshifted and look wierd as a result) and we never noticed that happening. I suppose she could have gone for the few hours from around noon to four though, we'd not have seen that.

Macy0161

bumper234 wrote: »

So you say pay temps to stay at home waiting for a call or have people waiting at home and only get paid IF they work? Either way do you really think either of those options would be viable for either a company or a "temp"

I don't really care how the company do it - it's their responsibility to ensure the correct ratios (which are there for a reason) are adhered too. There's no excuse - it should be part of the costs, even if that means reduced profits. They could hire a load of interns I suppose...

bumper234 wrote: »

I know that sometimes my partner has had to go into rooms and work on staff until another staff member could get there from another creche but sometimes a room maybe under ratio for an hour or two until staff who have called in sick could be replaced. even having temps at home waiting for a call would sill take time for them to get there.

They should have a contingency in place. It is not acceptable to be out of ratio for "an hour or two", and if that reflects Giraffe's attitude even now, then they've learned nothing.

bumper234 wrote: »

If RTE girl left room to film around creche does this not mean she left the room under ratio?

I don't know - you're the one who's made this allegation several times on the thread. I wouldn't be holding it against a creche if the room was down for a couple of minutes while someone went to the loo, filming on their way or not.

bumper234

Sparks wrote: »

That's possible - but it's not quite open the doors and then leg it, because depending on whether it was Herself or myself taking our son in, his arrival time varied from before eight to anything up to some time after eleven (I work with a team in Toronto so my office hours are timeshifted and look wierd as a result) and we never noticed that happening. I suppose she could have gone for the few hours from around noon to four though, we'd not have seen that.

Yeah as i say am not privy to the full information and therefore cannot say for sure what times the manager was there i can only say i know that there was not a fulltime manager at belarmine for many months

Nordieboy

Well said Macy.

mathie

I have a HSE inspection report for Station Rd Links, Portmarnock.

In it they detail that the ratios are not adhered too.
And they still mark it as Compliant.

Mind boggling...

fisher8181

lazygal wrote: »

That's really not where my priorities lie, but if you think CCTV access for parents is the solution I think that's painfully naive.

not the full solution but surely it would help.
So I assume if you think I am being naïve that you still think that the carers would have behaved the same if they thought parents were watching?

DM addict

bumper234 wrote: »

Ok

So you know that tomorrow morning you are going to have xxx amount of children in the creche so you arrange to have xx staff working. 7 am rolls around and 2 of your staff call in sick (this happens in every workplace where bugs get passed around) Are you trying to say your company has EXTRA staff on the payroll sitting at home waiting for the call?

Actually, in the childcare place where I work - not a Giraffe, or a Links, or a Little Harvard - we have a panel of relief staff who do just that. They cover unscheduled sickness and holidays. The manager has a list of their mobile numbers and starts calling around as soon as someone calls in sick - which has to be done by 7.30am.

We usually have someone in to cover by 10am - breaks tend to get delayed and the manager is normally on ratio in a room, but it's very possible to manage. Just needs some organisation and management.

hoodwinked

DM addict wrote: »

Actually, in the childcare place where I work - not a Giraffe, or a Links, or a Little Harvard - we have a panel of relief staff who do just that. They cover unscheduled sickness and holidays. The manager has a list of their mobile numbers and starts calling around as soon as someone calls in sick - which has to be done by 7.30am.

We usually have someone in to cover by 10am - breaks tend to get delayed and the manager is normally on ratio in a room, but it's very possible to manage. Just needs some organisation and management.

simular happens in our daughters creche, the manager will jump in hands on while the secretary rings the relief staff who are on call...

Redpunto

does anyone know if its possible to see the program again anywhere - tried youtube but cant seem to find it, thanks

Sheep Shagger

Primetime have just tweeted...

@RTE_PrimeTime: Tonight at 21:35 - further revelations about a creche featured in Tuesday's A Breach Of Trust. @FitzgeraldFrncs joins us in studio. #rtept

?

miss_shadow

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

This post should be framed IMO.

Re the webcam comment, my point was i don't think its the solution.

quite frankly those 5/10 mins disturbed me enough!

Boombastic

josip wrote: »

I've just had a WTF moment reading the other thread on this in After Hours

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84850963&postcount=216

Can anyone enlighten me as the whether these 9 interns will count as part of the minder-child ratio in Giraffe Sandyford? Bumper, you would seem to be in the know here?

Just after being reported on the Nine News


Mary-Lou ' childcare positions are being filled by job bridge'

Gilmore ' Job - bridge will not be approved for such positions'



.......Said today in the dail, we'll wait an see if the above advert is pulled

Lisha

Well I'd say that's the final nail in giraffe belarmine's coffin

username123

Lisha wrote: »

Well I'd say that's the final nial in giraffe belarmine's coffin

You would think so, but I have seen a number of posts here (and elsewhere) where people are claiming their child is in Giraffe Belarmine and they wont move them. Baffles me, but perhaps people are in very difficult situations where they cannot easily move a child.

Lisha

username123 wrote: »

You would think so, but I have seen a number of posts here (and elsewhere) where people are claiming their child is in Giraffe Belarmine and they wont move them. Baffles me, but perhaps people are in very difficult situations where they cannot easily move a child.

I have an excellent child minder not perfect but she is excellent and she loves my kids. I suspect due to her personal circumstances I might lose her in next year or so. My heart will break and on a practical level I will be up the creek work wise when this happens .
So I do I understand why people are slow to move from a service that is in place and that they think works for them .
But if I had any fear that my child was being mistreated one of us would have to stay at home . Not easy for people I know

Sheep Shagger

Have a child there.

This was raised on Tuesday nights programme (that they had a breach three years ago), although the finer detios were not disclosed. What relevance it has now I don't know.

Seems Primetime might be trying to grill the minister/HSE on the way it was handled?

IF Giraffe Belamine did close and a new operator came in for the purpose built centre, would people put their kids back in?

lazygal

Lisha wrote: »

Well I'd say that's the final nail in giraffe belarmine's coffin

I wonder how the other branches will fare.

Sparks

Had problems getting RTE live to work here and missed the first few minutes of the programme - was there anything in them other than the abbreviated list of the problems they mentioned later on? Or was it just the panel discussion from the start?

Postgrad10

There was a childminder convicted of assaulting a child today too. Where are children safe?:(

irishmotorist

Lisha wrote: »

Well I'd say that's the final nail in giraffe belarmine's coffin

I think they were the exact words I said to my wife at that time!

Paddy James

vitani wrote: »

Training is part of the solution. Staff need to know what they can reasonably expect from the children in their care so that they're not flipping out over a toddler sticking their fingers into their food. They also need to be shown ways of communicating with the children to nip situations in the bud before they escalate. They also could do with training in ways of managing their own frustrations.

If someone is out of their depth in childcare day after day after day, then it's much easier for them to lose control. It's not going to work with every staff member, and there'll still be a few bad apples, but it shouldn't be dismissed as a point either.

Seriously are you serious? Sticking fingers in to food? They strapped the kids into chairs forb2 hours for gods sake . Seriously don't let anyone mention anymore about training it's cop on I can't see how I can say this. Have u kids in crèche

pwurple

Paddy James wrote: »

Seriously are you serious? Sticking fingers in to food? They strapped the kids into chairs forb2 hours for gods sake . Seriously don't let anyone mention anymore about training it's cop on I can't see how I can say this. Have u kids in crèche

People get extremely stressed and frustrated when they are expected to do something and they don't have the training or ability to do it. Looking after 10 toddlers is a whole different ball game to looking after 2 toddlers too.

I know myself I have gotten frustrated with my own 2 year old when she has just taken off the clothes I put on her for the third time or some other semi-annoying thing. I have my ways of dealing with that (usually stepping outside the room for a few seconds, deep breathe and retry). But there are PLENTY of parents who will lose their temper and hit a toddler for that kind of thing. Parents. Who love their children unconditionally. Anyone looking after a child, including parents, will benefit from more training and skills.

I hope you don't think that was a set of excuses. I honestly hope the book is thrown at them. But that is not to say the training is adequate and they behaved like this despite good knowledge. They obviously had no idea of how to deal with the situation in front of them. Extra training could included ... For a start, how to deal with a collegue who is doing these things! You note no one stepped in here either.